MrSilverMaC Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d822c7390/article/refs-save-giants-wr-cruz-from-potential-embarrassment?module=HP11_headline_stack It had all the makings of a bonehead play, but Victor Cruz is one lucky guy, much to the chagrin of the Arizona Cardinals and their fans. With three minutes left in the fourth quarter of Sunday's game, and his New York Giants trailing by three points, Cruz made a catch in Cardinals territory and turned upfield. Then, without being touched, the receiver went to the ground and voluntarily let go of the ball. Cruz said he believed he'd been touched by a defender. But he wasn't, so that's a fumble, right? Cardinals defensive back Richard Marshall certainly believed so, which is why he scooped up the ball and ran with it. One problem: The referees ruled Cruz down by non-contact (you read that right). Sound weird? Well, the NFL rule book allows officials the leeway to make that call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindred Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 the player needs to slide feet first. They should also stay on the ground for a couple seconds. BS call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostyj Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Tony Dungy said that he has never heard that call if a player had gone head first. But they showed the rule on ESPN and it stated that the player is down if he gives up. Then the argument was giving up would be 3-4sec of laying down untouched, or kneeling Weird call, and after seeing the rule it appears it was right a correct call.(as much as I'd like to disagree) I tried to search the rule and could not find it. If I do will post it. Maybe a memo will be sent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindred Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Could Cruz have stood up an kept running with the ball? yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Cardinals got jobbed. He didn't give himself up.... he mistakenly believed he was already down. That's a fumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blue Joe Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Thank you refs. I breathed a big sigh of relief after that blown call. :applause::applause::applause::applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Not that I feel like doing the Giants any favors, but you're allowed to "take a knee" anytime, guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofSparta Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Not that I feel like doing the Giants any favors, but you're allowed to "take a knee" anytime, guys. True, but diving head first is usually an attempt to extend a play. Especially in comparison to taking a knee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Tony Dungy said that he has never heard that call if a player had gone head first. But they showed the rule on ESPN and it stated that the player is down if he gives up. Then the argument was giving up would be 3-4sec of laying down untouched, or kneeling Weird call, and after seeing the rule it appears it was right a correct call.(as much as I'd like to disagree) I tried to search the rule and could not find it. If I do will post it. Maybe a memo will be sent. The so called "giving up" was in the rules because if a player injures himself and falls due to the injury and then drops the ball it's called down because a player gave himself up. I've seen that called before. Not something like that where he drops the ball and walks off untouched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideshow24 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Not that I feel like doing the Giants any favors, but you're allowed to "take a knee" anytime, guys. Eli said after the game that they "got away with one". He was clearly not "taking a knee." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallsux Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Not that I feel like doing the Giants any favors, but you're allowed to "take a knee" anytime, guys. This fine. Except, he didn't take a knee, he semi-stumbled to the ground, THOUGHT HE WAS TOUCHED, & fumbled the ball. No knee was taken on that play. ---------- Post added October-5th-2011 at 08:38 AM ---------- The so called "giving up" was in the rules because if a player injures himself and falls due to the injury and then drops the ball it's called down because a player gave himself up. I've seen that called before. Not something like that where he drops the ball and walks off untouched. Doug Williams in the Super Bowl had this happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom [Giants fan] Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 What gets lost is, the Giants made a great comeback to win a game they were clearly not up for with the exception of the last 4 minutes of the game. Did the refs save him? Probably. But give credit where it is due to the Giants and Eli in particular for two very good drives to win the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 ;8588952']What gets lost is' date=' the Giants made a great comeback to win a game they were clearly not up for with the exception of the last 4 minutes of the game. Did the refs save him? Probably. But give credit where it is due to the Giants and Eli in particular for two very good drives to win the game.[/quote']Sorry Tom, I have to disagree. Giants got a BS call from the refs, and took advantage of a Defense that was still trying to figure out what the hell happened. Giants stole that one thanks to the refs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom [Giants fan] Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Sorry Tom, I have to disagree. Giants got a BS call from the refs, and took advantage of a Defense that was still trying to figure out what the hell happened. Giants stole that one thanks to the refs... The drive before that one they drove down the field and scored with no help. They were doing the same thing on that drive. You can't assume they wouldn't have scored without that play with the way Eli and the offense was clicking. And I mean without that play ever happening. The Cardinals couldn't stop them. Only the Giants could have stopped themselves which they almost did. The Giants still deserve credit for the comeback. The refs didn't score two TD's in a minute for them. And if the Redskins had done it, you'd be saying the same thing I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 The two plays after that drive it was obvious Arizona was trying to gather themselves up. The bogus call was given to the Giants, Eli knowing it was a bogus call quickly ran a play that was unsuccessful before the challlenge could be called, challenge called, Refs telling Wisenhunt, sorry we are about to screw you so you cant challlenge that, Eli takes advantage and boom throws a TD. Nope not giving credit for anythin Yes they drove down the field before with no help, but they needed help to close it out. And FYI, I wouldn't give credit to the Redskins if the same thing happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 the player needs to slide feet first. They should also stay on the ground for a couple seconds. BS call. this is the answer. otherwise, its all interpretation and controversy. there needs to be a clear act of giving yourself up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinzplay Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 This week, the Giants have Ed Hochuli and his crew for their home game against the Seahawks. This is a crew that's not intimidated by big market teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scyber Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 the player needs to slide feet first. They should also stay on the ground for a couple seconds. BS call. They don't need to slide feet first. Here is the rule: Section 2 Dead BallArticle 1: Dead Ball Declared. An official shall declare the ball dead and the down ended: (a) when a runner is contacted by a defensive player and touches the ground with any part of his body other than his hands or feet. The ball is dead the instant the runner touches the ground. A runner touching the ground with his hands or feet while in the grasp of an opponent may continue to advance; or ( when a runner is held or otherwise restrained so that his forward progress ends; or © when a quarterback immediately drops to his knee (or simulates dropping to his knee) behind the line of scrimmage; or (d) when a runner declares himself down by sliding feet first on the ground. The ball is dead the instant the runner touches the ground with anything other than his hands or his feet; or (e) when a runner is out of bounds, or declares himself down by falling to the ground, or kneeling, and making no effort to advance; or Sliding feet first is specifically covered by (d). This is covered separately b/c a runner sliding feet first is provided additional protection (I cut out those lines from the rulebook). But (e) clearly states that either kneeling or falling to the ground are also valid. There is no timing requirement for staying on the ground, only that no effort is made to advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Eli said after the game that they "got away with one". He was clearly not "taking a knee." This fine. Except, he didn't take a knee, he semi-stumbled to the ground, THOUGHT HE WAS TOUCHED, & fumbled the ball. No knee was taken on that play. Watch the video. Cruz was on both knees when he deliberately dropped the ball down. I agree it was a boneheaded move, but legally he was down when he gave himself up. I think they ought to change the rule to "if your knee touches the ground, you're down even if nobody touched you." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallsux Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Watch the video. Cruz was on both knees when he deliberately dropped the ball down. I agree it was a boneheaded move, but legally he was down when he gave himself up.I think they ought to change the rule to "if your knee touches the ground, you're down even if nobody touched you." Well, my point is, no one touches him, he drops the ball before he's actually up & turning around. I mean, really, it's going to be the next thing that they change to make this game less defense friendly, & there's little we can do to, but gripe about it. I think it can be seen both ways & that's why the judgement calls can be so contraversial. I guess, when I see the play, if the ref calls it a fumble, this conversation doesn't happen. Most everyone will se it & be like, "yeah, bonehead." Because he went the other way with it, we're arguing over it. Which, in reality is kinda silly too. The rule is the rule. I think it's a potential problem in the future if they don't revise it, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Well, my point is, no one touches him, he drops the ball before he's actually up & turning around. I mean, really, it's going to be the next thing that they change to make this game less defense friendly, & there's little we can do to, but gripe about it. I think it can be seen both ways & that's why the judgement calls can be so contraversial. I guess, when I see the play, if the ref calls it a fumble, this conversation doesn't happen. Most everyone will se it & be like, "yeah, bonehead." Because he went the other way with it, we're arguing over it. Which, in reality is kinda silly too. The rule is the rule. I think it's a potential problem in the future if they don't revise it, IMO. Agreed. I'd like the nfl to take away as many "judgement calls" as they reasonably can, and make the rules definitive as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofSparta Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 What sucks for the 2 defenders nearest him is that they played this perfectly. They both saw him drop, avoided touching him, but got close enough to scoop up the ball if he dropped it. Which he did. In real time I watched those 2 and I could see exactly what they were thinking, and I was impressed at how smart they were. But, like them, I was fooled by the rule. They couldn't have done anything better to turn this play into a positive. As it turns out, there was nothing they could do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedlamVR Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Watch the video. Cruz was on both knees when he deliberately dropped the ball down. I agree it was a boneheaded move, but legally he was down when he gave himself up.I think they ought to change the rule to "if your knee touches the ground, you're down even if nobody touched you." QUOTE=HailGreen28;8590102]Watch the video. Cruz was on both knees when he deliberately dropped the ball down. I agree it was a boneheaded move, but legally he was down when he gave himself up. I think they ought to change the rule to "if your knee touches the ground, you're down even if nobody touched you." Sorry but I wathced the game and I think the Refs gave the game to the Giants on that one play . The giants scorred on their very next play and the fact the defense did not get the call must have been a body blow . You see it alot- those little butterfly wings, bad ref decisions, dropped interceptions, missed fumbles, have massive repucusions in momentum on D because the play got more importance they are thinking about the previous play and not what is going on . If the play had not happened the giants could have stalled inside the 20, or the Cards could have intercepted Eli or gotten a sack fumble to end the game ... or the G men could have turned the ball over on downs - or they could have thrown a TD on the very next play ... but we will never know what would have happened . If you change the rule that as soon as the knee of reciever in posetion of the ball hits the floor then you kind of kill some of the electrifying plays some of the WRs can make with the ball in their hands . The point about the Cruz play is he thought the play was over before he even started to get up because he thought he had been touched down by one of the cardinal defenders ...and I think the cardinals thought that tooo . The fact he was on two knees and put the ball on the ground was incedental . Had a giants player seen that cruz had not been hit and there had been no wistle they could have picked up the ball and run into the EZ then the giants fans would be upset that they had a scoring play taken off the board ..... That said the Cards had the Giants beat and they had the toughness to come back . When all the other NFCE teams were falling overthemselves to loose in the final Q of their games the G-men did make an impressive comback . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braindx Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Watch the video. Cruz was on both knees when he deliberately dropped the ball down. I agree it was a boneheaded move, but legally he was down when he gave himself up.I think they ought to change the rule to "if your knee touches the ground, you're down even if nobody touched you." The most important rule of all: play to the whistle. If you're going to "give yourself up" wait until the whistle is blown. Sliding (generally by a QB) is league-wide known as "giving up" immediately. Diving face first is not. Don't leave it to the hands of the refs. I've never seen the call go this way before, and I'm still confused why they gave it to Cruz now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Hail Mary save Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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