No Excuses Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Not the other witnesses. . Who do you believe and on what basis do you come to that conclusion? Why should eye witness testimony be allowed as the only form of evidence necessary for the death penalty, when this form of evidence time and time again has proven to show a good deal of error? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capcrunch98 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I always thought a sentence of life without parole was a much worse penalty than execution. Is it really? I am sure that being stuck behind bars would suck for anybody, but I've always wondered whether guys get sort of acclimated to the situation after a few years. A scumbag goes to jail and gets 3 square meals a day, cable television, gets to make friends with other vermin like himself, and sit around and play basketball and read books and lift weights. And if you happen to attain poster child status for the anti-death penalty crowd (like Troy Davis, Mumia Abu Jamal, Tookie WIlliams, etc.), you get visits by celebrities, a large portion of the planet throwing rose petals at your feet and drooling all over themselves to kiss your butt and get an interview with you. I agree that life in prison isn't fun, even for the most hardened guys, but I'm not so sure it's worse than the death penalty. If they truly instituted the practice of hard time, i.e. getting these dirtbags outside to repay their debts to society via digging ditches, building roads, etc., I think you would find a lot more people willing to accept life in prison instead of the death penalty, myself included. ---------- Post added September-22nd-2011 at 10:31 AM ---------- Agreed.I'm not a supporter of the death penalty. But it looks that Davis participated in a beating and then murder of someone who came to help, and then refused to cooperate with authorities. Coles may well be the trigger man. But I have little sympathy for Davis. Exactly. The system isn't perfect (no system is), but neither was Davis. He shoulders 100% of the blame for putting himself in the situation he is/was in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Yeah, I'm sure life on the inside is glamorous after a few years. I'm with Botched - put a bullet in my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 If it is worse, then GOOD. I have zero empathy for those convicted of these heinous crimes. Let them suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Violent criminals killed...(EDIT) or do you prefer executed ? So? Put them away in SuperMax prisons for the rest of their life without the possibility of parole, we should not stoop to their level, and pretend we've justified it because they were guilty of a crime. We are all guilty before God, and God has granted us a stay of execution so that we might repent. And yes, for me this is a religious issue. No way let us pay for them to live for...screw the years...xxxxxx dollars later. Nope. It is a documented fact that it costs more to execute someone than it does to keep them in life long incarceration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Agreed.I'm not a supporter of the death penalty. But it looks that Davis participated in a beating and then murder of someone who came to help, and then refused to cooperate with authorities. Coles may well be the trigger man. But I have little sympathy for Davis. Right. There are two seperate issues here, that people are muddling together - Davis' innocence, and Davis' punishment. There is one where there is a much stronger argument against it than the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmySmith Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 So? Put them away in SuperMax prisons for the rest of their life without the possibility of parole...It could be said that the death penalty makes this an alternative that would be completely unacceptable to some if the death penalty disappeared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 It could be said that the death penalty makes this an alternative that would be completely unacceptable to some if the death penalty disappeared. Your slippery slope argument does not work on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botched Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Is it really? I am sure that being stuck behind bars would suck for anybody, but I've always wondered whether guys get sort of acclimated to the situation after a few years. A scumbag goes to jail and gets 3 square meals a day, cable television, gets to make friends with other vermin like himself, and sit around and play basketball and read books and lift weights. And if you happen to attain poster child status for the anti-death penalty crowd (like Troy Davis, Mumia Abu Jamal, Tookie WIlliams, etc.), you get visits by celebrities, a large portion of the planet throwing rose petals at your feet and drooling all over themselves to kiss your butt and get an interview with you. I agree that life in prison isn't fun, even for the most hardened guys, but I'm not so sure it's worse than the death penalty.If they truly instituted the practice of hard time, i.e. getting these dirtbags outside to repay their debts to society via digging ditches, building roads, etc., I think you would find a lot more people willing to accept life in prison instead of the death penalty, myself included. You may be right, I really don't know. I have kind of a strange -or maybe hypocritical- stance on the death penalty I guess. I am very much in favor of it, but I've always felt like being in prison and knowing you would never again see the outside world, would be akin to torture. For me it would be anyway. I'd choose the needle over that without a second thought, no matter how many Oprah interviews they promised me. At the same time I would rather see killers executed than imprisoned for life, because I believe that once you willfully take innocent lives, you're not really worth devoting any more thought or attention to. Save the tax dollars, food, and oxygen for people who aren't evil. There are good people eating from dumpsters while we feed and clothe child murderers. That's effed up. So yeah, that's where I am on the death penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Is it really? I am sure that being stuck behind bars would suck for anybody, but I've always wondered whether guys get sort of acclimated to the situation after a few years. A scumbag goes to jail and gets 3 square meals a day, cable television, gets to make friends with other vermin like himself, and sit around and play basketball and read books and lift weights. Ok, see you're wanting us to believe that Special Housing Units like death row etc, are the same as being in general population, which simply isn't the case. I've been inside a SuperMax facility (Wabash Valley Correctional in Indiana), and I can guarantee you life in the SHU was nothing like the "luxurious" environment you describe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capcrunch98 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Yeah, I'm sure life on the inside is glamorous after a few years. I'm with Botched - put a bullet in my head. Never said "glamorous", I just said for some it might be better than death. ---------- Post added September-22nd-2011 at 11:08 AM ---------- Ok, see you're wanting us to believe that Special Housing Units like death row etc, are the same as being in general population, which simply isn't the case.I've been inside a SuperMax facility (Wabash Valley Correctional in Indiana), and I can guarantee you life in the SHU was nothing like the "luxurious" environment you describe. If there were no death penalty, wouldn't all prisoners like Davis be in general population? Are there other inmates in SHU besides guys on death row? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 And 2 confirmed. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...vis-10-reasons Of the TWO of the nine key witnesses who have not changed their story publicly, one has kept silent for the past 20 years and refuses to talk, and the other is Sylvester Coles. Coles was the man who first came forward to police and implicated Davis as the killer. But over the past 20 years evidence has grown that Coles himself may be the gunman and that he was fingering Davis to save his own skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 If there were no death penalty, wouldn't all prisoners like Davis be in general population? No, you put them in a SHU where they are separated from the GP. Are there other inmates in SHU besides guys on death row? Yes, but the SHU is a building that is divided into multiple cells where each inmate is isolated from the others, and their recreational area resembles a dog kennel at the pound with a single basketball and hoop at the end. This is not a life of kicking it in the yard with your gangbangers watching your stories on the tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capcrunch98 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Yes, but the SHU is a building that is divided into multiple cells where each inmate is isolated from the others, and their recreational area resembles a dog kennel at the pound with a single basketball and hoop at the end. This is not a life of kicking it in the yard with your gangbangers watching your stories on the tube. Interesting, thanks for the info. If that's the case, maybe I'd opt for the chair too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Interesting, thanks for the info. No problem, I used to do training for inmates in Wabash Valley, how people can characterize those places as anything but nightmarish is beyond me. All I knew is that each day when I left I loved seeing the horizon without the grey haze of chainlink and razor wire. If that's the case, maybe I'd opt for the chair too. Why should they get to choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickGiaquinto1 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Poor guy. I mean, he just wanted to murder someone and not get caught. I guess he was counting on spineless citizens who ignore the loss of life and the victims families grief to get him off. but seriously, coming from a family that has been the victim of murder, I dont think the death penalty can be used enough. despite the media's push to white wash this guy - he had 20 years of appeals, he had his day in court and justice was done. the Planet is a better place today. now, just get those two a-holes in Connecticut who murdered that doctors family, in the chair. I would volunteer to pull the switch on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 1) I don't think this has anything to do with race 2) I don't think this has anything to do with religion 3) I've heard before that it is cheaper to house an inmate for life then to invoke the death penalty. I do not know how much money it takes to do either. If someone has national figures on that I'd be curious to know. I figure that the appeals process over the length of their incarceration is what drives the price up and not just housing them. I can't imagine a ****tail used for lethal injection and giving the inmate a paupers burial would cost all that much. If it does, the pharmacutical companies and funeral homes really have a good racket going. I think an inmate should have a limited number of appeals. Does it really take 22 years to prove your innocence? If you notice, most of the information that comes out to prove their innocence usually comes when it's time to execute. Where was this information in, say 1995? 2000? 2003? But Back to the number of appeals. Make it like a coaches challenge. If your defense team can't prove your innocence with 3 appeals, that's it. This case was back in 1989 and alot of you are screaming forensic evidence, but it was limited back then. You won't get alot of forensic evidence from that time. And I don't know if the guy is guilty or innocent. But if he was innocent, it is sad that he had to die. If he was guilty, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazel-Ra Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Texas did one of the James Byrd murderers today as well, but for some reason he doesn't draw as much outrage. http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/21/justice/texas-dragging-death-execution/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 2 scumbags down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 If your defense team can't prove your innocence with 3 appeals, that's it. All fine and good, until it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Yeah, Russell Brewer, good riddance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam@section118 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 3) I've heard before that it is cheaper to house an inmate for life then to invoke the death penalty. I do not know how much money it takes to do either. If someone has national figures on that I'd be curious to know. http://deathpenalty.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=001000 The Office of Legislative Research for the Connecticut General Assembly, in its Apr. 13, 2000 study titled "Comparison of Capital Punishment Costs in Texas and Connecticut," concluded: "There are several problems involved in trying to determine the cost of a capital case. First, there is a wide variety of costs associated with capital cases. These include costs for prosecuting and defense attorneys, interpreters, expert witnesses, court reporters, psychiatrists, secretaries, and jury consultants. Another problem is the length and complexity of the process. Cases tend to last several years and can pass through three possible phases. The first phase includes state trial court (two trials - one to determine guilt, the other for sentence), state Supreme Court, and possible appeals to the U.S. Supreme Court. The second phase is the state habeas corpus (post-conviction process) and appeals. The final phase is federal habeas corpus, which includes appeals to the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals and to the U.S. Supreme Court... A third problem is the way states budget money for entities that are involved with capital cases. For example, Texas and Connecticut allocate specific sums to their judicial departments. It is difficult to separate the costs each department incurs for capital cases from those for other cases. From a data-gathering standpoint, Texas presents yet another problem. Each county (there are 254) must bear the costs of its capital cases. It is extremely difficult to get data from the counties. Dallas is the only county from which we received partial data, and we were unable to determine whether they are representative of other counties." PRO (yes) Chris Clem, JD, Attorney at Samples, Jennings, Ray & Clem, PLLC, in a Jan. 31, 2002 statement in response to a press release about the cost of capital cases as reported by the Tennessee Coalition to Abolish State Killing, stated: "Executions do not have to cost that much. We could hang them and re-use the rope. No cost! Or we could use firing squads and ask for volunteer firing squad members who would provide their own guns and ammunition. Again, no cost." Dudley Sharp, Death Penalty Resources Director of Justice For All (JFA), in an Oct. 1, 1997 Justice for All presentation titled "Death Penalty and Sentencing Information," wrote: "Many opponents present, as fact, that the cost of the death penalty is so expensive (at least $2 million per case?), that we must choose life without parole ('LWOP') at a cost of $1 million for 50 years. Predictably, these pronouncements may be entirely false. JFA estimates that LWOP cases will cost $1.2 million - $3.6 million more than equivalent death penalty cases. There is no question that the up front costs of the death penalty are significantly higher than for equivalent LWOP cases. There also appears to be no question that, over time, equivalent LWOP cases are much more expensive... than death penalty cases. Opponents ludicrously claim that the death penalty costs, over time, 3-10 times more than LWOP." CON (no) Richard C. Dieter, MS, JD, Executive Director of the Death Penalty Information Center, said the following on June 7, 2010, in his testimony before the Pennsylvania Senate Government Management and Cost Study Commission, available at www.deathpenaltyinfo.org: "The death penalty is the most expensive part of the system on a per-offender basis. Millions are spent to achieve a single death sentence that, even if imposed, is unlikely to be carried out. Thus money that the police desperately need for more effective law enforcement may be wasted on the death penalty… The principal reason why the death penalty is so expensive can be summed up in one phrase: ‘death is different…' Every stage of a capital case is more time-consuming and expensive than in a typical criminal case. Jury selection takes much longer; more mental health and forensic experts will be needed; two trials will be required - one for guilt and one for sentencing; and the appeals will be far more complex, focusing on both the conviction and the death sentence. Two attorneys are usually appointed for the defense, so that issues of guilt and sentencing can be separately explored. The prosecution has to respond with equal or greater resources since they have the burden of proof...There is no reason the death penalty should be immune from reconsideration, along with other wasteful, expensive programs that no longer make sense." Way more at the link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 22 years? People have been released from prison after longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 22 years? People have been released from prison after longer. Much longer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 The Death Penalty is one topic that I have done a total 180 on in the last 5 years. I once took the position of full support, but over time, seeing the issues with possible mistakes and wrongful convictions, I changed my stance to against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XEL Posted September 22, 2011 Author Share Posted September 22, 2011 People keep bringing up that he had 22 years to prove himself innocent. I'd like to point out that the court said the only way to deter the inevitable was if they could prove him, without an ounce of doubt, innocent. On the other hand however, they could execute him without even being sure it was him who killed the officer. America's justice system is so flawed it's not even funny. A possibly innocent man gets executed but a mother who clearly killed her own child can walk free. I think I'm gonna become a hermit when I grow up. The world sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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