Politico: Bachmann: 'Crying' mother shared HPV Story

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Just so you know, none of us are disagreeing with you about any of this.

We are disagreeing with your assertion that there isn't a male "pill" because men don't want it and wouldn't use it. The reason women have the pill available to them and men don't is because it has been scientifically easier to control ovulation than it is to control sperm motility. Men basically have to get vascetomies to have that level of control, and they are permanent.

Plenty of silly anti-feminist crap gets posted on the Tailgate, but it hasn't happened in this thread. Not yet, at least.

A) I thought you could get a vasectomy reversed!!!! NO???????

I hate feminists. :paranoid:

[twa]

Depends on how the vasectomy is done and other factors

I like the good feminists....it's the ****es that give them a bad name:pfft:

[LadySkinsFan]

Since birth control is not in my purview, I thought I'd Google some info and the below seems to sum up the facts.

From the Go Ask Alice website:

http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/1948.html

Alice,

I was wondering what information you have on the male birth control pill and when it could possibly be released on the market.

Thank you,

Sam

Dear Sam,

Finally, a male birth control pill, right? Unfortunately, not just yet. There are several methods of "male-directed" contraception being developed and tested in trials; however none are currently available to the general public. Clinical trials are underway and men surveyed in countries throughout the world have expressed their interest in male-directed contraception. The road is being paved, but men may have to wait several years before any viable methods reach the market place.

In the meantime, the possible mechanisms for male-directed birth control seem nearly endless. You can find detailed information about all methods at malecontraceptives.org, an organization whose mission is to "speed the development of safe, effective and convenient contraceptives for men." Consider a few of the methods currently being researched, as discussed at malecontraceptives.org:

Hormonal pills, implants, and/or shots. These methods would work by using male hormones to stop sperm production. They are similar in theory to female hormonal contraception.

"Heat" methods. Have you heard that tighty-whitey's can lower a man's sperm count? Well, there's something to the idea that heat reduces fertility.... Heat methods would allow men to systematically bathe their boys in heat (most likely water baths) to diminish sperm production.

Non-hormonal pills. Certain pill-based drugs may limit sperm production and/or ejaculation in a variety of ways. One is nicknamed the 'dry orgasm' pill, which, as unappetizing as the name sounds, is simply a way to alter muscular contractions in the penis so that sperm does not enter the semen.

Vas deferens-blocking methods. These methods are basically a temporary version of a vasectomy. They work by plugging the Vas deferens so that sperm cannot enter the semen, however unlike vasectomy they are reversible.

So, what's taking so long? For one thing, scientists have found it challenging to control the male reproductive system. Women have a reproductive system regulated by a menstrual cycle, and are fertile for about 48-hours a month. (However, at exactly what point that 48-hour period of fertility will be during the month is unknown.) Scientists were able to develop the birth control pill, also known as oral contraceptives (OCs), based on the regularity of menstruation. Unlike women, men produce sperm 24/7, through a process called spermatogenesis, at a rate of one-half billion sperm each day. Because men are constantly fertile, developing an effective and reversible hormonal contraceptive, such as a male birth control pill, continues to challenge researchers.

In these studies, at least five different approaches to temporarily decrease or cease sperm production and function have been considered. They include:

In a man:

preventing sperm production

interfering with sperm function

interrupting sperm transport

In a woman:

preventing effective sperm deposit

blocking sperm-egg interaction

Of these strategies, decreasing or preventing sperm production by using testosterone, the primary male sex hormone, either alone or in combination with another type of sex hormone called progestin, have shown the most promising results. European men may have access to some form of hormonal male contraception that prevents sperm production within the next five years.

Of course, another consideration is whether men will actually use these methods as they become available. Even though a male birth control pill may seem like a great innovation, not all men agree. Some are nervous about the possible side effects that have resulted from a few of these clinical trials, which have included:

mood swings

aggressiveness

lack of libido

acne

weight gain

lowered high density lipoprotein (HDL, the good cholesterol) levels

impotence

long-term infertility

Additionally, an effective male contraceptive could put more of the responsibility for contraception on men, which may or may not fit well into a man's (or woman's) beliefs and values. And as with female-directed methods, factors such as cost, convenience, and ease of use will likely play a role in overall acceptance. Finally, none of the methods being researched would provide protection against sexually transmitted infections (STIs). Even when new male-directed contraceptive methods are available, condoms will still be essential in preventing STIs.

Men who are concerned with preventing pregnancy currently have the two old stand-bys: condoms and vasectomy. Of course, vasectomy is not a good choice for men who would like to have kids in the future, so for many men the only male-directed contraceptive choice is condoms. Men with female partners can also discuss any birth control methods she may be willing to use, and can even contribute money to help off-set the cost. However, it seems it will be a number of years before men have access to reversible contraceptive methods, other than condoms, of their own.

Alice

Related Q&As: (Note: the following have links to the articles listed)

Are men born with sperm?

Non-surgical contraception options for men — new methods coming?

Reversible vasectomy?

Semen Goes Where?

Current contraceptive choices for men?

Who brings the contraception: Men or women?

Contraceptive "gold" for men?

---------- Post added September-14th-2011 at 10:16 PM ----------

To get back on topic:

Also, on the Michaelangelo Signorile show on Sirius OutQ today, he discussed that certain strains of HPV, including those prevented in the vaccine, also cause anal cancer and mouth and throat cancers in both heterosexuals and homosexuals, including men. So shouldn't our boys be vaccinated right along with the girls? And I still have not had an answer about what can be done to kill HPV in males who are carriers of the virus.

[Dan T.]

Yahoo News Blog - Professors offer more than $10,000 for proof that Bachmann’s story about HPV is true

By Chris Moody

Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann's story about a woman who claimed that her daughter suffered "mental retardation" after receiving a vaccine against HPV could fetch the woman's family thousands of dollars. But the family can only collect if Bachmann or the unnamed woman can prove the story is true.

Two bioethics professors have offered to pay more than $10,000 for medical records that prove the anecdote Bachmann told after Monday night's Republican presidential debateis true, the Minneapolis Star Tribune reports:

Steven Miles, a U of M bioethics professor, said that he'll give $1,000 if the medical records of the woman from Bachmann's story are released and can be viewed by a medical professional.

His offer was upped by his former boss from the University of Minnesota, Art Caplan, who is now director of the University of Pennsylvania Center for Bioethics. Caplan said he would match Miles' challenge and offered $10,000 for proof of the HPV vaccine victim.

"'These types of messages in this climate have the capacity to do enormous public health harm,'" Miles said of why he made the offer. 'The woman, assuming she exists, put this claim into the public domain and it's an extremely serious claim and it deserves to be analyzed.'"

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/professors-offer-more-10-000-proof-bachmann-story-132647843.html

Also from from the article:

[bachmann] repeated the story to several news outlets over the next 24 hours and sent a fundraising letter to supporters about the exchange she had with Perry on the debate stage.

[Yet:]

When pressed by Fox News' Sean Hannity on his radio program about the story, Bachmann said she had "no idea" if it were true.

[Bang]

So basically Bachmann admits she'll just say anything to try and win a point.

Now that;s what I want in a leader.

How anyone can hear that and still support her is beyond me.

~Bang

[Henry]

A) I thought you could get a vasectomy reversed!!!! NO???????

Possibly, though the likelihood of a successful reversal decreases over time. It's not like a pill that you can just stop taking.

[twa]

Also, on the Michaelangelo Signorile show on Sirius OutQ today, he discussed that certain strains of HPV, including those prevented in the vaccine, also cause anal cancer and mouth and throat cancers in both heterosexuals and homosexuals, including men. So shouldn't our boys be vaccinated right along with the girls? And I still have not had an answer about what can be done to kill HPV in males who are carriers of the virus.

What are the rates of incidents?

from my understanding it is 1% or less in females and even less in males

and even then the vaccines will not prevent all cases/strains

It seems largely a waste of money(about $350 a person) that could be better directed elsewhere,aside from high risk groups.....certainly falls short of something that needs mandated(though I do support ins paying for it if requested)

add

some of you might find this Perry defense interesting

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/in_focus&id=8354519

[Ellis]

I knew that ***** was lying.

[Predicto]

What are the rates of incidents?

from my understanding it is 1% or less in females and even less in males

One percent is pretty darn high when you are talking about a communicable life threatening disease. The point of the vaccine is to keep that percentage from rising.

[@DCGoldPants]

I still doubt there is a woman who walked up to her and said this.

[twa]

One percent is pretty darn high when you are talking about a communicable life threatening disease. The point of the vaccine is to keep that percentage from rising.

Well since the vaccine is about 70% effective on preventing cancers and rather expensive ,I don't see a need for a mandate

How do you feel about the 6% rate of serious complications from Gardasil if 1% is significant ?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/08/AR2010030802331.html

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaccines/hpv/gardasil.html

Reports to VAERS Following Gardasil®

As of June 22, 2011, approximately 35 million doses of Gardasil® were distributed in the U.S. and VAERS received a total of 18,727 reports of adverse events following Gardasil® vaccination: 17,958 reports among females and 346 reports for males, of which 285 reports were received after the vaccine was licensed for males in October 2009. VAERS received 423 reports of unknown gender. Of the total number of VAERS reports following Gardasil®, 92% were considered to be non-serious, and 8% were considered serious.

Serious adverse event reports

Any VAERS report that indicated hospitalization, permanent disability, life-threatening illness, congenital anomaly or death is classified as serious. As with all VAERS reports, serious events may or may not have been caused by the vaccine.

[Predicto]

I don't think you read that Gardasil story right.

It doesn't say 6 percent of people had serious complications. It says that OF ALL the complications reported, 94 percent were minor (like redness at the site of the shot) and 6 percent were more serious. There were 23 million doses of Gardisil used, and less than 1000 people had serious side effects. That is a rate of one in 23,000, not one in 6.

That's why the story also says that the "rate and severity of most side effects appear to be consistent with those of other vaccines."

[Jumbo]

Bachmann---lying whacky-eyed ***** and religiosity-filled white woman with notable psychopathology--any crying mother would turn to her for support and to share an intimate personal tragedy even if she were a stranger cuz she radiates understanding, compassion, empathy, and a certain "I been there, sister. I've trudged the mean streets of life" ambiance.

[twa]

6% of the reported complications is as relevant as the smaller rate(well below 1%) of those developing cancer from HPV

http://www.cdc.gov/cancer/hpv/statistics/cervical.htm

About 8 white women, 13 black women, and 8 Asian/Pacific Islander women were diagnosed with cervical cancer per 100,000 women. About 14 Hispanic women were diagnosed with cervical cancer per 100,000 women, compared to 8 non-Hispanic women.

add

perhaps I wasn't clear the 1% was not all developing cancer?

[Tulane Skins Fan]

6% of the reported complications is as relevant as the smaller rate(well below 1%) of those developing cancer from HPV

http://www.cdc.gov/cancer/hpv/statistics/cervical.htm

About 8 white women, 13 black women, and 8 Asian/Pacific Islander women were diagnosed with cervical cancer per 100,000 women. About 14 Hispanic women were diagnosed with cervical cancer per 100,000 women, compared to 8 non-Hispanic women.

This is your best argument, honestly. Lost in a lot of this is the fact that HPV is extremely common and rarely actually leads to cervical cancer. On top of that, cervical cancer is very slow growing, and very treatable.

However, it does appear that Bachmann just spewed some total ass-garbage about a woman's child becoming mentally retarded after this vaccine.

[Hubbs]

There are plenty of men who see using birth control NOT in their purview and a woman's responsibility.

Who said otherwise?

Condoms decrease sensation, getting reversible vasectomies is emasculating and I could go on with male objections to the forms of birth control available to them. Of course this is not ALL men, but it's enough to be out there.

So... there are two options out there for men to prevent pregnancies... and... because both are quite common... and the first is quite profitable... to the tune of what I'm sure is at least tens of millions of dollars annually... the fact that some men don't like them... just goes to show why there's no male birth control pill... because some men might not use that either... and therefore it could only become quite common and potentially worth tens of millions of dollars annually?

And I put the valid scientific reason first because I know it would have been brought up and besides it's true, so why wouldn't I mention it? That's not to say that male attitudes toward the current forms of male birth control that consider them emasculating or taking away from pleasure don't exist. Just because you might not hold them doesn't make them go away.

When have I ever mentioned my feelings towards vasectomies and condoms?

That's why I advocate for males to know all about forms of birth control available to them, to know what their means of reproductive freedom are, so they can prevent fathering unintended children, to be in charge of when and where they reproduce. I advocate this for both sexes as their responsibility to have control over their lives. When the religious fundamentalists take over state governments to restrict one's reproductive freedom, then individuals have lost control of their very bodies in a very basic way. That's why the rise of feminism in the 50s, 60s and currently made as a priority women's access to birth control and abortion so at that very basic level women have control over when and where they reproduce so that they have access to education, work and other choices, just like men have. And if men truly exercised and educated other men about reproductive freedom as determining when and where they reproduce, then men would have control over their bodies in a very basic way, they wouldn't be supporting children that they didn't intend on fathering and it goes on.

Control over our very bodies is the most basic right, and that includes reproductive freedom. If this control is ceded to the state at the behest of those who would control us, then we have lost our freedom.

:thumbsup:

[Special K]

6% of the reported complications is as relevant as the smaller rate(well below 1%) of those developing cancer from HPV

http://www.cdc.gov/cancer/hpv/statistics/cervical.htm

About 8 white women, 13 black women, and 8 Asian/Pacific Islander women were diagnosed with cervical cancer per 100,000 women. About 14 Hispanic women were diagnosed with cervical cancer per 100,000 women, compared to 8 non-Hispanic women.

add

perhaps I wasn't clear the 1% was not all developing cancer?

what does this have to do with anything?

Cervical cancer is an extremely slow developing cancer and is typically caught before cancer even develops thru regular pap smears. A woman gets a pap smear, abnormal cells are identified through pathology (ASCUS), and these cells are addressed through a variety of procedures depending on the proliferation of cells in thr cervix. FYI, HPV is the common cause for these cellular changes...

Soooo, I have absolutely no idea what point you are trying to make with this article...

[twa]

Soooo, I have absolutely no idea what point you are trying to make with this article...

That there was no pressing need to mandate the vaccine....simply making it recommended,available and affordable is sufficient.

we were chasing rabbits on a tangent

[Baculus]

When pressed by Fox News' Sean Hannity on his radio program about the story, Bachmann said she had "no idea" if it were true.

I think this quote defines Bachmann. Her claim is basically the HPV equivalent of "death panels," and she epitomizes Huntsman's criticism toward the anti-science wing of his party.

Who among us suspected she was lying from the get go? Most of us, I would venture to guess . . .

[twa]

So is Perry now in the pro-science wing?]

[The Evil Genius]

Pretty easy decision for me if and when I have kids - I want to afford my future daughter the chance to have kids. Since cervical cancer oftens strikes during those child bearing years, I would want to make sure I did everything in my power to prevent her from getting it and dieing young or becoming barren because of it.

It really is, as simple as that.

---------- Post added September-16th-2011 at 07:19 AM ----------

As an aside, California this year mandated that all schoolkids need to be innoculated for whooping cough before the school year. There was a article in the Sac Bee yesterday that stated that schools were starting to send kids home who were not innoculated.

Bravo. :applause:

[Baculus]

So is Perry now in the pro-science wing?]

Yes and no. He wants to kowtow to the anti-science fringe crowd to win votes, and he is unable to articulate any sort of consistency . . in this and other matters.

---------- Post added September-16th-2011 at 02:26 PM ----------

That there was no pressing need to mandate the vaccine....simply making it recommended,available and affordable is sufficient.

we were chasing rabbits on a tangent

And what if people can't afford it in your state? At least 1/4 of your population have no health insurance, leading the nation in this statistic:

http://amarillo.com/news/2011-09-13/texas-leads-us-uninsured#.TnNcUdR1P2s

This is one of the more troubling parts of the article:

"As of last year, at least a third of their populations were uninsured in 19 rural counties in the region. In Briscoe and Hall, the percentages were 42.3 and 41.2 percent respectively. Moreover, a high percentage of the uninsured were children."

So a lot of poor and children have no health insurance, so they may not be able to afford the cost of an injection. But you can't give the vaccine away because that would be the dreaded socialism, so what do you do?

[twa]

Bac we have free clinics,free and low cost immunization programs in addition to medicaid and SCHIP ect

many in rural areas don't see the need to buy ins when free and low cost care is available,both here and just across the border

we also have one of the youngest pop and a majority minority population......things are a bit different here,especially in the border areas

[@DCGoldPants]

Why hasn't this mother stepped forward?

[Baculus]

Bac we have free clinics,free and low cost immunization programs in addition to medicaid and SCHIP ect

The funding for those clinics are dropping, cut by state Republicans, partially due Perry's rejection of federal monies. You, after all, supported this move, mouthing the governor's reasoning, that Texas shouldn't become "dependent" on the federal government. What is the result? Drop in SCHIP and Medicaid rolls. This, of course, was the objective, since those programs are "socialism." So, really, I have no idea what you are suddenly touting some programs which you have opposed in the past.

This link further discusses Texas' health care woes:

http://www.cjr.org/campaign_desk/deep_health_care_problems_unde.php

When Perry claimed that Texas can manage its own health care, he is clearly didn't know what he was talking about since the state has deep problems (caused by his ideology, which you share). So this whole debate over the HPV vaccine is strange, because Perry doesn't seem to care about other health care challenges faced by citizens of his state, such as basic access to health care.

Of course, you're too busy defending the state to care otherwise, it would seem.

many in rural areas don't see the need to buy ins when free and low cost care is available,both here and just across the border

Baloney. Did you even read that article? These people CAN'T afford the "buy ins," and many of these rural areas just don't have the means to provide the care needed. Again, your claims fly in the face of reality. I forget that it's useless to provide links to you, because you won't read them. It's useless, because you will defend Texas no matter what, while thousands of your fellow citizens face health care challenges.

we also have one of the youngest pop and a majority minority population......things are a bit different here,especially in the border areas

So WHAT?

---------- Post added September-16th-2011 at 03:04 PM ----------

Why hasn't this mother stepped forward?

We all know the answer. :-)