Two things about our quarterbacks, including one point of worry on Rex.

[Skinsinparadise]

Yes Rex has done good so far and I like the mobility of Beck; however, I feel that he is so confident sometimes that he takes a long time scrambling and get sacked or throws a deep ball if he is called for without reading the D ... he threw one to I think Stallworth which was almost intercepted

Someone in ESPN I think said Beck is the best kept secret in the NFL... I thought that was a good one.

it was Gruden, they were talking about it on 106.7, Gruden told a 106.7 radio reporter post game that he would definitely make Beck the starter and that he had more zip on his passes than he expected, had the "it' factor.

[illone]

You my friend need to get your eyes checked out.

I'm not the only one....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/five-observations-from-redskins-ravens/2011/08/26/gIQAghAKgJ_blog.html

[Pelado]

I remember a Patriots team that lost a starter named Drew Bledsoe....they had this unknown kid from Michigan come in named Tom Brady....instead of just giving up on the season due to some injuries they did the best they could with what they had....I think they have been pretty succesful. Same thing with Matt Cassel instead of just folding up the season when Brady went down they made due, and they had a mildly succesful year.

The point is, that you can either make excuses, or you can sack up and play with what you got....like I said with subpar talent I could care less about the 5 losses, but the yardage, TD's and Int numbers tell me that this guy decided to just settle for the well we are not very good excuse and there is nothing I can do. If he is our starter what would he do if our starters went down? Would he just pack it in? There are tons of guys who still played great in adversity, so far in this guys career he can not say that.

Again I do not hate the guy, I just do not think he is the guy to lead us to victories this season, or in any season.

I'm not saying that Beck is better than Brady, because he's not. However, Brady was in a much better situation than Beck was. Brady was in his second year with the Patriots as the primary backup, and when Bledsoe went down, the rest of the Patriots team was still intact.

Beck started his rookie season in Miami on the practice squad, getting no reps with the Miami playbook. Then, when he finally did start, it was only after Miami had lost its best playmakers on a team that was 0-9. Compared to Brady, Beck had less time to learn the offense, fewer repetitions with his teammates, a worse team around him, and greater attrition through injury from that worse team.

Does that mean he's better than Brady? No. Does it mean he's better than Rex? No. Does it mean he'll never accomplish anything in the NFL? No.

[Hdf561]

I have John Beck graded much higher than you do, obviously. So, no...we can't all agree on that.

Ok, thats fine, but you really think he is our 7-8 year answer, especially after what you have seen in the preseason? His touchdown drives last nite were the results of two amazing plays by players not named John Beck....Without a great RAC by Austin, and an awesome run by Hightower we do not get in the endzone in those drives.

He may just be our starter but if he is still under center in 7 years then we are missing the boat on a true franchise Qb somewhere.

[Art]

I think Grossman has the bigger arm of the two players. It certainly appears he puts more zip on the ball than Beck. Of course maybe Beck just hasn't showcased his "zip" yet, but from what Ive seen Rex seems to hit those intermediate routes with more zip and accuracy.

:whoknows:

This is literally stunning to me.

At this point we are clearly able to see that Beck's arm is better than Grossman's and Grossman's isn't weak. I think we're discovering that Beck may have the second best arm in the division. It'll be interesting to see if he loses zip. Brunell had zip his second year here, but it dropped quickly.

[MartinC]

I think Grossman has the bigger arm of the two players. It certainly appears he puts more zip on the ball than Beck. Of course maybe Beck just hasn't showcased his "zip" yet, but from what Ive seen Rex seems to hit those intermediate routes with more zip and accuracy.

:whoknows:

Disagree with you on the arm strength. I thought Beck showed a stronger arm and had more on his deep and intermediate throws than Rex. Rex can stick it in there when he throws in-between the numbers but when he throws outside it sometimes seems like he floats it a bit.

[Hdf561]

This is literally stunning to me.

At this point we are clearly able to see that Beck's arm is better than Grossman's and Grossman's isn't weak. I think we're discovering that Beck may have the second best arm in the division. It'll be interesting to see if he loses zip. Brunell had zip his second year here, but it dropped quickly.

Then I must be crazy as well cause I do not see it. Becks interception looked like a punt it hung up there so long....his deep throws were unimpressive, and I do not see how you can see how much zip someone has on the ball with short 5-10 yard passes. Rex's passes on the other hand hit with a thud, and his deep ball gets there in a hurry, in fact sometimes he even overthrows recivers who are pretty fast. He has plenty of zip on the slant, and can go deep.

[Oldfan]

Ok, thats fine, but you really think he is our 7-8 year answer, especially after what you have seen in the preseason? His touchdown drives last nite were the results of two amazing plays by players not named John Beck....Without a great RAC by Austin, and an awesome run by Hightower we do not get in the endzone in those drives.

He may just be our starter but if he is still under center in 7 years then we are missing the boat on a true franchise Qb somewhere.

We can trade "ifs" and "buts" about last night's game if you want to. For example, if Beck had been throwing to Santana, rather than Stallworth, he would have had a long completion or at least the pass would have been knocked down. Stallworth misjudged the ball.

But, my judgment isn't based on this competition. I see talent in Beck that is at least as good as Theisman's. And there's no reason that he can't play until he's 37 at a high level. He is an almost perfect fit in the Shanahan scheme.

If Mike Shanahan starts Grossman, it will baffle me every bit as much as his trade for McNabb did when it went down.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Remember that tv show "Quarterback Challenge?"

I think we need to bring that back, because I - for one - will not be able to sleep tonight until I know who has the strongest arm on the team.

[Art]

Then I must be crazy as well cause I do not see it. Becks interception looked like a punt it hung up there so long....his deep throws were unimpressive, and I do not see how you can see how much zip someone has on the ball with short 5-10 yard passes. Rex's passes on the other hand hit with a thud, and his deep ball gets there in a hurry, in fact sometimes he even overthrows recivers who are pretty fast. He has plenty of zip on the slant, and can go deep.

Brother, I don't know what to tell you. There's a wildly different ball coming out of Beck's hands and Grossman's. I had not expected to see such thrust out of Beck. I knew his arm was not what people were saying given his MPH clocking coming out, but, he can spin it. I love Rex's tosses too. But there's a clear difference in same throws. The out in this last game is an example. Beck's real deep ball was 60-yards in the air from a guy rolling against his body. It looked like every other 60-yard-pass ever. It's thrown high and comes down. There's never been a laser 60-yarder. There never will. And, here's the kicker for you. It clearly wasn't up there like a punt.

Beck rolled out, twisted his body, and got it 60 yards down the field to a very fast receiver.

On the video posted by the Cowboy fan, Beck released the ball a tenth of a second before the clock hit 9 seconds on that video. And the ball hit the hands of the defender a tenth before 12. That's 3 seconds in the air. Interestingly, watching the Moss TD from Grossman, Rex basically threw that corner 35-yards. On the video, he released at 6 and the pass hit Moss at just before 9. His shorter throw was in the air about 2.5 to 2.8 seconds. We could probably time it out exactly. There's nothing wrong with that throw and the time in the air is not that important for Rex as it was a TD and he put as much air as he needed to.

Beck's 60 was impressive because he did put hump on it. A punt hangs well over 4 and into 5 seconds if kicked well.

Maybe you don't know Beck wears 12 or something and you have the two confused.

Grossman's still my guy. I like his moxy and daring. But, Beck's arm is boss.

---------- Post added August-26th-2011 at 04:49 PM ----------

Remember that tv show "Quarterback Challenge?"

I think we need to bring that back' date=' because I - for one - will not be able to sleep tonight until I know who has the strongest arm on the team.[/quote']

You do know. Somehow, despite seeing it, people still can't seem to process it clearly, likely because of the conditioning. The announcers were talking about the difference. The receivers talk about the difference. Everyone seems to be catching on, but a very few remaining guys. They'll get there soon if Beck starts and can rest comfortably until he does

[illone]

Other observers have Grossman with the bigger arm, too.

I'll need more convincing on that front.

[Art]

Other observers have Grossman with the bigger arm, too.

I'll need more convincing on that front.

Name one?

The announcers in each of the last two games were all over Beck's arm. I've not heard one comment from one person watching the game talking about it to us who've said Grossman's arm is bigger. I've seen every Redskin receiver who talks about it point to Beck. Theismann points to Beck, and he counts in the announcers who are effusive about his arm strength. I've not seen or heard one comment that counters that and, fortunately, I have eyes. So do you. Again, look at the two outs in the last game. Rex to Gaffney on the Baltimore TO and Beck to Hankerson. Same throw, basically same distance.

Night and day.

Whether Beck's any good or not remains an open question, but, the man has plenty of hose.

[Newera]

I have no "Beck Hate" I just know what I see, and what I see does not impress me, that is all.

Sure he had ONE deep pass that if thrown better would probably have led to more yardage but it led him out of bounds. His next one was not a great toss, and his third one looked like punt it hung so long, and lead to an INT. Like I said earlier his scoring drives were two awesome plays by guys not named Beck.

None of that is hate it is fact. When Rex has scored he has had a significant influence on the play, Beck has not.

Sure I agree that Rex's style could lose us some games, but Becks could as well, think about 2 mins left in the game and we need a TD to win, Beck wont take that shot to the endzone because that is nto his game, Rex however has proven he can take that shot, and can be succesful doing it.

Bottom line neither one of these guys is very special, but Beck is 0-5 as an NFL starter with 1td and 3 pics.....Rex went to a superbowl, has more experience, and has been in this offensive system longer. Add to that his play in the preseason and it is no question in my mind who should be the starter.

That's hilarious. Because one way or the other. Beck is going to eventually be the guy on this team. You may have to learn to like him.

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

All night Gruden kept refering to the difference between Becks arm strength and Grossmans and he had Beck with the stronger arm, he even went on to say the Skins playcalling seemed much more comfortable with Beck as far as deeper routes that were being run compaired to when Rex was in. I don't think either can be accurate over 40 yds, and Rex has a history of throwing balls up for grabs, I think it will be Beck to start and see how it goes.

[Oldfan]

Beck's deep ball accuracy remains an open question, but he has more than enough arm strength to pose a deep threat.

It's his short and intermediate range passing that stands out for me. In Baseball, a pitcher's fastball can't be measured as velocity or accuracy. It should be measured as velocity AND accuracy. Beck throws a football with good velocity and great accuracy. Receivers have to love that.

[Newera]

Ok, thats fine, but you really think he is our 7-8 year answer, especially after what you have seen in the preseason? His touchdown drives last nite were the results of two amazing plays by players not named John Beck....Without a great RAC by Austin, and an awesome run by Hightower we do not get in the endzone in those drives.

He may just be our starter but if he is still under center in 7 years then we are missing the boat on a true franchise Qb somewhere.

After years of an inefficient Campbell and an unsuccessful year with McNabb, it's nice to see two quarterbacks with ratings around 100 compete. Anyway you look at it, both have performed very well. We can pick them to death, it's looking like we can win with either.

[Hdf561]

We can trade "ifs" and "buts" about last night's game if you want to. For example, if Beck had been throwing to Santana, rather than Stallworth, he would have had a long completion or at least the pass would have been knocked down. Stallworth misjudged the ball.

But, my judgment isn't based on this competition. I see talent in Beck that is at least as good as Theisman's. And there's no reason that he can't play until he's 37 at a high level. He is an almost perfect fit in the Shanahan scheme.

If Mike Shanahan starts Grossman, it will baffle me every bit as much as his trade for McNabb did when it went down.

I will concede to many things but in no way is John Beck anything close to Joey T. Thats like saying Bobby Hebert had the same talent as Drew Brees.

Beck may very well be the starter, he may very well be sucesful, but he is not Theisman.

[illone]

Name one?

1. The starting quarterback may not matter.

You can look at this in a number of ways. If it’s a glass-half-full take: Both John Beck and Rex Grossman have proven that the way the system is designed, plays will come to them, and they can move the ball. Beck gives you better mobility, Grossman gives you a stronger arm.

Taken from: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/five-observations-from-redskins-ravens/2011/08/26/gIQAghAKgJ_blog.html

[kubstix]

Beck has a stronger arm than Rex? That's like saying Chad Pennington was awesome at throwing deep balls.

[illone]

I will concede to many things but in no way is John Beck anything close to Joey T. Thats like saying Bobby Hebert had the same talent as Drew Brees.

Beck may very well be the starter, he may very well be sucesful, but he is not Theisman.

I lol'd when I saw that post.

Joey T was a flippin warrior and could have been a hog, probably should have been. He was tough as nails. Not sure why that comparison grew legs, but he's definitely out there on that one.

[Art]

1. The starting quarterback may not matter.

You can look at this in a number of ways. If it’s a glass-half-full take: Both John Beck and Rex Grossman have proven that the way the system is designed, plays will come to them, and they can move the ball. Beck gives you better mobility, Grossman gives you a stronger arm.

Taken from: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/five-observations-from-redskins-ravens/2011/08/26/gIQAghAKgJ_blog.html

And to you, I don't know what to tell you.

Arm strength isn't a mystery intangible. You can see it.

It's right there. On tape. Look again. Look at same throws. Look at the fact Beck got 60 yards in 3 seconds and Grossman threw 35 in three seconds. Grossman's arm is fine. It's plenty good enough to win, though will struggle on the outs. Beck's arm was among the best coming out of college and appears BETTER. No throw the two of them makes put side by side leaves any doubt. When Darrell Green won those fastest man competitions by crossing the line first, you knew he won. When you see a Grossman pass and a Beck pass, arm strength ceases being a mystery. Jones is likely reinforcing a bad point he has read elsewhere, that Grossman has a better arm. The media will hang on to idiocy longer than it should. The light of day -- television -- exists to show us our answer.

It's been shown.

It's Beck.

Oh, and I still prefer Grossman

[Oldfan]

I lol'd when I saw that post.

Joey T was a flippin warrior and could have been a hog, probably should have been. He was tough as nails. Not sure why that comparison grew legs, but he's definitely out there on that one.

Theisman was a B+ quarterback on a grade A team.

[Newera]

I know people will say I'm crazy. But Beck kind of reminds of a young Favre. Remember, Favre sat in Atlanta. (Former second round pick) Got traded. Holmgren and Ron Wolf loved him and developed him. The rest is history. Beck has a live arm,is mobile, smart, dedicated, a Kyle brown noser, and, most importantly wants to be good. The dude trained this offseason with Rodgers and Brees. I think the difference is Favre was way more daring and reckless as a quarterback. Beck will be more conservative in his execution. To me he has excellent skill sets for what the Shanahan's really want to run. Thus their high interest in him. He's perfect for their version of west coast offense. Notice how many more boots and roll outs they run with Beck.

It seems the Shanahan's like to put a lot of decision making pressure on defenses. Do this, we do that. Do that, we do this. The roll outs are tough to defend because it makes the linebackers make a decision commit to Beck he throws it. Don't commit he runs for eight yards. Rex just can't do that. When add the running game and Beck mastering the short to immediate passing game with his release and arm, the offense could be deadly good in time. I think that's why Mike say's he "Knows" he could be good.

[s0crates]

I have no "Beck Hate" I just know what I see, and what I see does not impress me, that is all.

There is so much that is wrong with your post. I will just point out a couple things. First, I find it odd that you are not impressed by Becks 99.0 QB rating and 74% completion rate. Any way you slice it, that is pretty good.

Sure he had ONE deep pass that if thrown better would probably have led to more yardage but it led him out of bounds. His next one was not a great toss, and his third one looked like punt it hung so long, and lead to an INT. Like I said earlier his scoring drives were two awesome plays by guys not named Beck.

You are nit-picking about the first throw. He found his man and hit him, a long completion is a long completion. It was admittedly not a perfect throw, as a perfect throw would have allowed some YAC, but it was a good throw for a big gain. The last throw to Stallworth was not bad either, even if it did result in an interception. He had one-on-one coverage in what should have been a mismatch, and he did what you are supposed to do in that situation, throw a jump ball to your receiver. Watch the replay, Stallworth slowed down on his route.

None of that is hate it is fact. When Rex has scored he has had a significant influence on the play, Beck has not.

I do not know exactly what you mean by having significant influence on a play, but I would assume that every QB has it on every play, since he is the guy with the ball in his hands.

Bottom line neither one of these guys is very special, but Beck is 0-5 as an NFL starter with 1td and 3 pics.....Rex went to a superbowl, has more experience, and has been in this offensive system longer. Add to that his play in the preseason and it is no question in my mind who should be the starter.

That is the bottom line? Nothing about Rex's 53 turnovers in 35 games? Nothing about Rex's 8 turnovers in less than 4 games last season? Nothing about Beck's superior YPA and completion percentage? Clearly your mind is made up that Rex is better, but you are missing a lot of relevant info here.

As to neither of them being very special, they have both looked outstanding in the pre-season. Anybody can see that. Just look at the efficiency of the offense in general, and their numbers in particular. They have both played well.

I think there is one thing we can all agree on, if anyone thinks Beck is our Qb for the next 7-8 years then we are screwed....

I do not think everybody will agree on that, maybe you are right that Beck is not the long-term solution to our QB concerns, but I could see him emerging as the starter for the next few years at least, based on how well he has performed in this offense so far. This competition is far from over, and it is far to soon to declare that Beck cannot be a long-term starter.

[Hdf561]

There is so much that is wrong with your post. I will just point out a couple things. First, I find it odd that you are not impressed by Becks 99.0 QB rating and 74% completion rate. Any way you slice it, that is pretty good.

You are nit-picking about the first throw. He found his man and hit him, a long completion is a long completion. It was admittedly not a perfect throw, as a perfect throw would have allowed some YAC, but it was a good throw for a big gain. The last throw to Stallworth was not bad either, even if it did result in an interception. He had one-on-one coverage in what should have been a mismatch, and he did what you are supposed to do in that situation, throw a jump ball to your receiver. Watch the replay, Stallworth slowed down on his route.

I do not know exactly what you mean by having significant influence on a play, but I would assume that every QB has it on every play, since he is the guy with the ball in his hands.

That is the bottom line? Nothing about Rex's 53 turnovers in 35 games? Nothing about Rex's 8 turnovers in less than 4 games last season? Nothing about Beck's superior YPA and completion percentage? Clearly your mind is made up that Rex is better, but you are missing a lot of relevant info here.

As to neither of them being very special, they have both looked outstanding in the pre-season. Anybody can see that. Just look at the efficiency of the offense in general, and their numbers in particular. They have both played well.

I do not think everybody will agree on that, maybe you are right that Beck is not the long-term solution to our QB concerns, but I could see him emerging as the starter for the next few years at least, based on how well he has performed in this offense so far. This competition is far from over, and it is far to soon to declare that Beck cannot be a long-term starter.

Like I have said several other times look at becks 2 TD drives last nite, both made possible by players NOT named John Beck....now look at Rex's TD an actual TD pass into the end zone.

With out a HUGE run by Hightower, and a great RAC by Austing we do not score on those drives, simply speaking Beck had zero to do with it, that screen worked cause of Austin not Beck, that run worked becuase of Hightower not Beck. That Grossman TD was 80% Grossman and 20% Moss.

Then take a look at the Steelers game Grossman was great and oh yea threw a TD pass to the endzone. The only reason Beck has a TD pass reception is again becuase of an amazing RAC by Austin, if not for that Beck would have Zero TD's to Rex's 2. They have thrown the same amount of INT's and Beck has given up 1 more Sack. Rexs rating is 92.3 to Becks 99.0 and Becks completion percentage is higher but Rex also played in a game that Beck did not so he has more attempts.

Bottom line Rex has made his TD's happen, Becks TD's have been the result of great plays from other people and very little to do with him.