Two things about our quarterbacks, including one point of worry on Rex.

[GWinSkins83]

I'm not the only one....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/five-observations-from-redskins-ravens/2011/08/26/gIQAghAKgJ_blog.html

Ima tell him the same thing to he need to get glasses too. When Beck and Grossman throws a 15 yard pass Beck gets there faster. I mean you can just see that watching the game.

[TheItalianStallion]

And to you, I don't know what to tell you.

Arm strength isn't a mystery intangible. You can see it.

It's right there. On tape. Look again. Look at same throws. Look at the fact Beck got 60 yards in 3 seconds and Grossman threw 35 in three seconds. Grossman's arm is fine. It's plenty good enough to win, though will struggle on the outs. Beck's arm was among the best coming out of college and appears BETTER. No throw the two of them makes put side by side leaves any doubt. When Darrell Green won those fastest man competitions by crossing the line first, you knew he won. When you see a Grossman pass and a Beck pass, arm strength ceases being a mystery. Jones is likely reinforcing a bad point he has read elsewhere, that Grossman has a better arm. The media will hang on to idiocy longer than it should. The light of day -- television -- exists to show us our answer.

It's been shown.

It's Beck.

Oh, and I still prefer Grossman

I really don't get how people can dispute this. He was throwing fastballs on short-medium throws with flicks of his wrist, and on his few deep attempts, threw it a long way. Rex isn't noodle-armed by any means, but Beck clearly has the stronger arm.

And I also give a slight edge to Grossman.

[HailGreen28]

I'm more impressed with Beck after the game. Questions about his arm being answered.

I still think Rex is the better choice to win now. Maybe it's his longer time in the system, maybe because he's been a starter before and Beck hasn't. He just seems to run the offense better, and carry the team better, to me.

I don't think Beck is getting any better physically as a QB than he already is, he's 30. Maybe if he learns the system better, learns how to make quicker reads and get the ball out of his hands faster, he could be our starter.

But while in Shanny I trust, to make the right decision, for now I'm still a member of the FIIGD fan club.

[Hitman21ST]

Like I have said several other times look at becks 2 TD drives last nite, both made possible by players NOT named John Beck....now look at Rex's TD an actual TD pass into the end zone.

With out a HUGE run by Hightower, and a great RAC by Austing we do not score on those drives, simply speaking Beck had zero to do with it, that screen worked cause of Austin not Beck, that run worked becuase of Hightower not Beck. That Grossman TD was 80% Grossman and 20% Moss.

:doh: Except the 33 yard pass to set up the run, or driving us oh, about 90 yards to get in position for the screen pass, Beck did nothing.

Then take a look at the Steelers game Grossman was great and oh yea threw a TD pass to the endzone. The only reason Beck has a TD pass reception is again becuase of an amazing RAC by Austin, if not for that Beck would have Zero TD's to Rex's 2. They have thrown the same amount of INT's and Beck has given up 1 more Sack. Rexs rating is 92.3 to Becks 99.0 and Becks completion percentage is higher but Rex also played in a game that Beck did not so he has more attempts.

:doh: Moss caught Grossman's pass on the 3 and ran it in. It wasn't in the end zone. Beck also threw a pass to Gaffney that he caught on the 3 and should have scored. Rex's INT was a whole lot worse than Beck's. If Moss gets tackled then he doesn't score in the Steelers game.

Bottom line Rex has made his TD's happen, Becks TD's have been the result of great plays from other people and very little to do with him.

If Moss doesn't catch those passes, they're not TDs. It's not like Rex threw the ball and caught it himself. The offense as a whole has scored more with Beck at the helm. That's a fact. The offense has also scored on a higher percentage of possessions with Beck at quarterback.

Stick with being a fireman and drop the Beck agenda, because you need work on your football evaluations.

[Hdf561]

:doh: Except the 33 yard pass to set up the run, or driving us oh, about 90 yards to get in position for the screen pass, Beck did nothing.

:doh: Moss caught Grossman's pass on the 3 and ran it in. It wasn't in the end zone. Beck also threw a pass to Gaffney that he caught on the 3 and should have scored. Rex's INT was a whole lot worse than Beck's. If Moss gets tackled then he doesn't score in the Steelers game.

If Moss doesn't catch those passes, they're not TDs. It's not like Rex threw the ball and caught it himself. The offense as a whole has scored more with Beck at the helm. That's a fact. The offense has also scored on a higher percentage of possessions with Beck at quarterback.

Stick with being a fireman and drop the Beck agenda, because you need work on your football evaluations.

Yea Moss caught the pass on the 3 a whole lot different than having to dodge 15 tackles on a screen pass, that TD was all Austin, anyone who sees different is just a Beck homer.

Sure beck might be good between the 20's but without a TON of help he would have not found the endzone this preseason, you cant say that about Rex.

No Rex did not catch the pass all by himself but all Moss had to do was catch it, Austin had to make a spectaular run to score, again that TD had very little to do with Beck.

I do not have a Beck agenda, no more than anyone else has a Grossman agenda....I am just sharing my view point on why I feel that Rex is better, you disagree thats fine.

Ill defienetly stick to being a fireman, hopefully youll thank us while we are out busting our ass in this upcoming Hurricane while your tucked away inside your house.

[Hitman21ST]

Yea Moss caught the pass on the 3 a whole lot different than having to dodge 15 tackles on a screen pass, that TD was all Austin, anyone who sees different is just a Beck homer.

So what about the pass to Gaffney that by all accounts should have been a touchdown, if Jabar could break a tackle?

Sure beck might be good between the 20's but without a TON of help he would have not found the endzone this preseason, you cant say that about Rex.

You know that, huh? Because if we didn't score on those plays I guess we would have turned the ball over or had to punt, huh? Grossman had some nice passes, but to say definitively that we don't score on those drives with Beck is just asinine.

No Rex did not catch the pass all by himself but all Moss had to do was catch it, Austin had to make a spectaular run to score, again that TD had very little to do with Beck.

It actually wasn't that spectacular. He got one block that sprung him.

I do not have a Beck agenda, no more than anyone else has a Grossman agenda....I am just sharing my view point on why I feel that Rex is better, you disagree thats fine.

By you saying definitively that we don't score on those drives if not for those plays shows your agenda. You're coming off as the offense would have worked just as well with you or me under center as Beck, when by all accounts, Beck has outperformed Grossman (higher completion percentage, higher QBR, higher yards per attempt and yards per completion). If Gaffney knew how to get in the end zone then they would have the same number of TDs.

Ill defienetly stick to being a fireman, hopefully youll thank us while we are out busting our ass in this upcoming Hurricane while your tucked away inside your house.

Not gonna take that bait...

[Pelado]

Beck has a stronger arm than Rex? That's like saying Chad Pennington was awesome at throwing deep balls.

Reported 20-yard out throws timed by radar at the NFL combine:

John Beck - 61 MPH

Brett Farve - 61 MPH

Colin Kaepernick - 59 MPH (fastest in 2011)

Joe Flacco - 58 MPH (fastest in 2008)

Tony Romo sits to pee - 57 MPH

Kevin Kolb - 55 MPH

Rex Grossman - couldn't find any data, scouting report link below

Chad Pennington - didn't throw at the combine (probably a wise decision)

http://www.craveonline.com/sports/articles/157928-brigham-youngs-john-beck

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/28/source-radar-gun-says-kaepernick-had-combines-strongest-arm/

http://blog.nj.com/giants_impact/2009/02/QBACKS19.pdf

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfldraft/tracker/player?id=7028

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2007/3/18/131411/633

http://www.cbssports.com/u/ce/multi/0,1329,2098085_59,00.html

[Hdf561]

I just watched that Beck Scoring Drive again....that entire Drive was all Austin and Helu.....Austin had 3 Awesome RAC's during that drive that had he not dodged several tackles those pass plays are not significant and Helu kept the drive alive getting 2 first downs....Beck did have the naked boot which was good so Ill give him credit for that but if not for Austins amazing RAC's (one of which ended with a TD) we do not score on this drive.

I also watched the Rex TD to Moss....the entire time Rex is Pushing the ball down the field....he even threw the TD pass twice except Moss dropped the first one when he went to the ground, so he had to do it twice. To me it was just a more impressive drive.

Again I got not hate for Beck, if Shanny picks him then so be it, I just feel that Grossman is the better QB and should be the starter, if Beck leads us to the playoffs Ill eat my words, but right now I just do not see it happening with Beck under center.

[Hitman21ST]

I just watched that Beck Scoring Drive again....that entire Drive was all Austin and Helu.....Austin had 3 Awesome RAC's during that drive that had he not dodged several tackles those pass plays are not significant and Helu kept the drive alive getting 2 first downs....Beck did have the naked boot which was good so Ill give him credit for that but if not for Austins amazing RAC's (one of which ended with a TD) we do not score on this drive.

And unless Beck gets the ball to Austin on time on target, he can't get that YAC. It's not like the ball magically appears in Austin's hands. You're taking credit away just because it fits your argument.

Good QBs place the ball in a spot where the receiver can get YAC more often than not.

[Skinsinparadise]

If Mike Shanahan starts Grossman, it will baffle me every bit as much as his trade for McNabb did when it went down.

I think it makes sense to start Beck too, from the stand point that it appears that aside from Beck's athletic advantages he has potentially more upside considering he's playing around Grossman's level with less game time experience and familiarity with the offense. he should improve with more game time. Grossman has had his career opportunities to showcase his ceiling, Beck hasn't. However, if Grossman starts I presume its Shanny thinking that Grossman hasn't shown his ceiling -- and if so I don't think it would be as strange as the McNabb deal. Also Shanny seems to have a quick trigger at times on QB's, if Grossman doesn't start hot, Beck could supplant him and keep the job. Shanny has said before he likes to have young QBs (granted Beck isn't young but he is inexperienced) learn awhile by watching as opposed to throwing them right into the fire. Having said that, yeah I think it makes more sense to start Beck if they truly believe in him. Whichever starter gets the job will certainly be under media/fan pressure prety quickly if they don't get off to a hot start perhaps like the year where fans were calling for Frerotte to start when Shuler was flailing.

[Hdf561]

And unless Beck gets the ball to Austin on time on target, he can't get that YAC. It's not like the ball magically appears in Austin's hands. You're taking credit away just because it fits your argument.

Good QBs place the ball in a spot where the receiver can get YAC more often than not.

I think you are downplaying Austin to fit your argument....sure Beck had to get the ball to him but he took a 10 yard pass an turned it into a 20....he took a behind the line of scrimmage pass and turned it into a TD....If Beck was taking shots into the endzone I would give him more credit but he isnt the one time he did take a shot to the endzone it was a horrible pass, the rest have been short passes (excpet for that one pass to AA) that relied mor eon the reciver to make a play.

[illone]

And to you, I don't know what to tell you.

Arm strength isn't a mystery intangible. You can see it.

Like I said before, my eyes haven't seen the same thing. I'll happily eat crow on this one as I do think Beck has much bigger upside, and I've been a fan of his for years, but from the games Ive seen this season Grossman has shown more zip. It sounds like you are using one game as example, and to me that isn't enough. Let's see how the next few games pan out and if beck shows me something to confirm what you've said I'll eat some crow. That is if he even plays:ols:

Oh, and I still prefer Grossman

I still think Grossman wins this job but I've been a huge fan of Beck's since he took over at BYU and secretly hoped the Skins would draft him. It was music to my ears when I heard that Shanny had him rated as the top QB in that draft because I felt the same way.

[Hitman21ST]

I think you are downplaying Austin to fit your argument....sure Beck had to get the ball to him but he took a 10 yard pass an turned it into a 20....he took a behind the line of scrimmage pass and turned it into a TD....If Beck was taking shots into the endzone I would give him more credit but he isnt the one time he did take a shot to the endzone it was a horrible pass, the rest have been short passes (excpet for that one pass to AA) that relied mor eon the reciver to make a play.

He threw deep three times, that I remember. The 33 yard completion, the interception that Gaffney slowed up on, and an incomplete pass.

And again, good QBs throw the ball to a place where the receiver can make a play after he catches it. That's how it's supposed to work, you don't just throw the ball then think the receiver will get tackled.

[Hdf561]

He threw deep three times, that I remember. The 33 yard completion, the interception that Gaffney slowed up on, and an incomplete pass.

And again, good QBs throw the ball to a place where the receiver can make a play after he catches it. That's how it's supposed to work, you don't just throw the ball then think the receiver will get tackled.

So now we are blaming gaffney....it couldnt be that it was just a poor decision, or poor throw....I bet if Rex had done that that would be the assumption, but since it was Beck it had to be Gaffney. That right there shows your agenda bro.

[Hitman21ST]

So now we are blaming gaffney....it couldnt be that it was just a poor decision, or poor throw....I bet if Rex had done that that would be the assumption, but since it was Beck it had to be Gaffney. That right there shows your agenda bro.

No. It was a one receiver route. He ran a hitch and go then slowed about 2/3 the way through the route. Watch it again. The QB is supposed to throw a jump ball in that situation (one on one against a smaller defender). Gaffney didn't do his job.

[Hdf561]

No. It was a one receiver route. He ran a hitch and go then slowed about 2/3 the way through the route. Watch it again. The QB is supposed to throw a jump ball in that situation (one on one against a smaller defender). Gaffney didn't do his job.

Are you talking about his end zone shot, or the pic....I just watched the pic again and that throw was to Stallworth not gaffney and it just looked like a ****ty throw on Becks part...he had all day he just didnt throw it well.

[darrelgreenie]

I still think Rex is the better choice to win now. Maybe it's his longer time in the system, maybe because he's been a starter before and Beck hasn't. He just seems to run the offense better, and carry the team better, to me.

I don't think Beck is getting any better physically as a QB than he already is, he's 30. Maybe if he learns the system better, learns how to make quicker reads and get the ball out of his hands faster, he could be our starter.

But while in Shanny I trust, to make the right decision, for now I'm still a member of the FIIGD fan club.

I trust in Shanahan too, but I gotta ask and I'm not attacking your position but the stats don't seem to support that Rex runs the offense better:

*Rex.....64.2 comp %.....7.7 YPA.......2 TDs.......1 INTs.......QBR...92.3

Beck....74.1 comp %.....9.2 YPA.......1 TD.........1 INT.........QBR...99.0

*Some states accumulated via mismatch of personell our 1st unit vs Steelers 2nd unit.

[Hdf561]

I trust in Shanahan too, but I gotta ask and I'm not attacking your position but the stats don't seem to support that Rex runs the offense better:

*Rex.....64.2 comp %.....7.7 YPA.......2 TDs.......1 INTs.......QBR...92.3

Beck....74.1 comp %.....9.2 YPA.......1 TD.........1 INT.........QBR...99.0

*Some states accumulated via mismatch of personell our 1st unit vs Steelers 2nd unit.

I see 2 TDs to 1....in my book that score means 14-7....14 is more than 7....and that TD from Beck was all Austin....Also do not forget that Beck has given up 3 sacks to Rex's 2 one of those not being his fault due to a high snap in last nites game...Comp percentage while important does not win games....Brunell and Campbell both had good Comp percentage so you would think we should have gone to the Superbowl with them right.

[GWinSkins83]

I see 2 TDs to 1....in my book that score means 14-7....14 is more than 7....and that TD from Beck was all Austin....Also do not forget that Beck has given up 3 sacks to Rex's 2 one of those not being his fault due to a high snap in last nites game...Comp percentage while important does not win games....Brunell and Campbell both had good Comp percentage so you would think we should have gone to the Superbowl with them right.

Dude you make yourself look stupid. A QB job is to lead that team down the field. 6 out 8 times Beck n the offense has lead the team down to score. If you look at the film he should have 3 td. One on the Gaffney pass which he make a quick decision and the other with a perfectily place ball to Sellars and he got trip. From my eye no matter what the offense has more options with Beck in their. See you want Brady and Manning QB but Rex will NEVER come close to that. And you think that the Giants Line wont KILL GROSSMAN you dont know football. Grossman fumbles to much. He has no pocket awareness. A QB needs that vs Giants even then it really dont mean any thing. Only way we beat them is not just droping back and pass its bootlegs, rollouts, a great run game, and that is what BECK brings that Rex cant. Sorry about your lil man crush but dude is a back up. He is one dimensional. You dont wonder y the run game breaks big runs with Beck in there and not Grossman? Because the stretch play work to perfection when there is a threat of the QB bootleg. Just some more stuff the defense has to prepare for against Beck. I rather the Defense have to worry about go against rollout bootlegs and dropback instead of just dropbacks. Your agrument is flawed and making a case for someone who had his chance. Let the dude with more weapons get a turn.

[darrelgreenie]

I see 2 TDs to 1....in my book that score means 14-7....14 is more than 7....and that TD from Beck was all Austin....Also do not forget that Beck has given up 3 sacks to Rex's 2 one of those not being his fault due to a high snap in last nites game...Comp percentage while important does not win games....Brunell and Campbell both had good Comp percentage so you would think we should have gone to the Superbowl with them right.

So basically you're saying you see what you want?

I didn't know that Beck 'gave up' the sacks and I don't believe 1 sack is a huge factor any more then 1 TD.

But, if we're talking about the context of the stats you cannot forget that Rex had the benefit of playing 1s vs 2s for part of the Steelers game.

Rex also threw a terrible INT against the Colts.

Becks INT was against man coverage when they expected the WR to 'win' so its not nearly as bad as Rex's.

If you don't recognize the importance of high comp % especially when its linked to high YPA then I'm not going to attempt/bother to explain it.

But, even if you consider their stats equal Beck still has the playmaking and athleticism advantage, kinda hard to look past those.

[HailGreen28]

I trust in Shanahan too, but I gotta ask and I'm not attacking your position but the stats don't seem to support that Rex runs the offense better:

*Rex.....64.2 comp %.....7.7 YPA.......2 TDs.......1 INTs.......QBR...92.3

Beck....74.1 comp %.....9.2 YPA.......1 TD.........1 INT.........QBR...99.0

*Some states accumulated via mismatch of personell our 1st unit vs Steelers 2nd unit.

Good points. Certainly points out that Beck has performed very well.

Looking at Rex's stats here, and Beck's stats here: I know it's way too small a sample size, but seems like Beck has been more consistent, while just going QBR (and my entirely subjective viewpoint), Rex had a game better than any of Beck's games, another game almost as good as Beck's best game, and one putrid performance. Guess that's the sex cannon's routine. I can see where Shanny might prefer Beck, especially if Hightower and company light it up.

But again, Rex also looks like he runs the offense better, to me. Makes his throws ahead in the play from where Beck does. I could be wrong, but that's my impression.

[braindx]

Hum.

From what I've seen so far there's definitely a lot of things to like about Beck's play that Grossman doesn't seem to have (such as some of the out throws like to Hank last night, better pocket presence & protection of ball, better roll out mobility, good accuracy while on the run). Beck still has some issues to take care of like getting rid of the ball when there's no one open and he can't run, but that is something that is easily teachable unlike some of the other things mentioned above.

Beck seems to have a higher ceiling, and I'd like to see more of him if not next week in the regular season games. We know what we have in Grossman overall, so I want to see what we got in Beck.

[Hdf561]

So basically you're saying you see what you want?

I didn't know that Beck 'gave up' the sacks and I don't believe 1 sack is a huge factor any more then 1 TD.

But, if we're talking about the context of the stats you cannot forget that Rex had the benefit of playing 1s vs 2s for part of the Steelers game.

Rex also threw a terrible INT against the Colts.

Becks INT was against man coverage when they expected the WR to 'win' so its not nearly as bad as Rex's.

If you don't recognize the importance of high comp % especially when its linked to high YPA then I'm not going to attempt/bother to explain it.

But, even if you consider their stats equal Beck still has the playmaking and athleticism advantage, kinda hard to look past those.

Like I said completion percentage is important but it is not everything....the Career leader in NFL completion percentage is Chad Pennington....and he never won anything.

Guys who win throw TD's Peyton, Brady, Brees, Warner may not have the highest compeltion percentage but they put the ball in the end zone.

Neither of these guys are those guys but its proven that TD's win football games not completing 60% of your passes.

Also Rex's TD came against the Steelers first team so that whole he played against the 2nd team argument is a wash.

If I have a "man crush" on Rex then point that judgemental mirror at yourselves cause you all have it for Beck....

[Hitman21ST]

Guys who win throw TD's Peyton, Brady, Brees, Warner may not have the highest compeltion percentage but they put the ball in the end zone.

You might want to check your arguments before you use them. Your QBs put the ball in a spot where the receivers could catch it and run for the TD for a vast majority of their TDs. Your argument of "you have to throw it into the end zone" to be considered a "winning QB' is incredibly flawed. You only really throw it into the end zone inside of 10, maybe 15 yards at the furthest out. There are exceptions to that, of course, but most of their TDs come from outside that 10-15 yard window.

I guess you don't give Warner any credit for the TD pass to Fitzgerald in the Super Bowl since most of those yards came after the catch?

[skinsfanjoe]

HDF561. Please just stop it dude. You are just getting absolutely ridiculous every time you type a response. Your arguments are making absolutely zero sense bro, everyone else sees it except you.