Per Adam Schefter: Arizona trades Tim Hightower to Skins for Vonnie Holliday and pick

[darrelgreenie]

You guys don't think Hightower is head and shoulders better than Torain?

[jivelikenice]

Good move IMO. Hightower should not be viewed as a potential feature back or true competition for a #1 role. We should play him to his strength, which is a 3rd down role with good blocking and pass catching ability. He's good depth in case we have an injury and need someone to fill in for a game or 2 & might be able to give us a goal line punch.

I don't think this should rule out Bradshaw IMO. Bradshaw is a featured back and right now we don't have one. I like Torain but he lacks elusiveness and can't be depended on because of injuries. Helu still could have a role as a change of pace home run threat. I'd LOVE it if we became far more run oriented in a division where everyone else has gone finesse and pass oriented.

[mojo]

Better than Torain? Not even close IMHO, Torain impressed me last year as a featured runner. Hightower is a 3rd down/ change of pace back at best. I like the pick up as long as it doesn't cost Keiland Williams a job.

[wilbur58z]

I've watched this guy play quite a bit and he's a big physical back....kind of a cross between Ricky Williams and Michael Pittman.

Interesting trade....maybe they're not sold Torain can stay healthy.

[DButz65]

You guys don't think Hightower is head and shoulders better than Torain?

Torain is 6'1, Hightower is 6'0 even, so no

[Blackest Eyes]

I think this is a solid pickup. There is definitely going to be some fierce competition in training camp.

[CRobi21]

Better than Torain? Not even close IMHO, Torain impressed me last year as a featured runner. Hightower is a 3rd down/ change of pace back at best. I like the pick up as long as it doesn't cost Keiland Williams a job.

Torrain has yet to show he can carry the load for an entire year though. And I think this will cost Keiland his job. Hightower can do everything he can do, and do it better. imo.

[jflow78]

I'm waiting for Vonnie to tweet, ""The truth of the matter is we got tricked, duped, led astray, hoodwinked, bamboozled!" after being asked what his agent and he thought about the trade.

[Darkstarr]

Would not be suprised if this also has cap implications, as i am sure a vet like holiday was making more then hightower who was still on his rookie contract. So I bet we cleared more cap space by doing this.

[tml6157]

I like the combo of Torain - Hightower - Helu a lot. Torain is your heavy load guy, Hightower a blocker/short yardage/pass catching/3rd down back, Helu is your change of pace/HR threat.

[darrelgreenie]

Better than Torain? Not even close IMHO, Torain impressed me last year as a featured runner. Hightower is a 3rd down/ change of pace back at best. I like the pick up as long as it doesn't cost Keiland Williams a job.

Yes, Hightower was used as a 3rd down/change of pace back.

But have you seen the guy run?

I can't think of anything Torain does better then this guy. (vision, cutback, speed)

Imo the only thing that separates Torain from Hightower is that Kyle used Torain as feature back and Hightower was forced to share carries on a team even more patholgically averse to running then we were.

[Conn]

You guys don't think Hightower is head and shoulders better than Torain?

Maybe a head OR shoulders, but not both. I do like him more though. Of course, I'm on record as someone who is really not impressed with Torain.

[lookoutblock]

That hissing noise is the sound of Ahmad Bradshaw's deflating leverage.

[Conn]

Better than Torain? Not even close IMHO, Torain impressed me last year as a featured runner. Hightower is a 3rd down/ change of pace back at best. I like the pick up as long as it doesn't cost Keiland Williams a job.

Why? If he beats out Key Williams, what have we lost? Hightower's 25.

[CRobi21]

I like the combo of Torain - Hightower - Helu a lot. Torain is your heavy load guy, Hightower a blocker/short yardage/pass catching/3rd down back, Helu is your change of pace/HR threat.

This is how I see it as well, barring injuries of course.

[Crazy Levi]

torrain looked great when he played, but he was awfully fragile. given Shanny's history with RBs this is a great move in my opinion...don't like the idea of trading a draft pick unless it's one of these many 6th rounders we've gotten.

[darrelgreenie]

Maybe a head OR shoulders, but not both. I do like him more though. Of course, I'm on record as someone who is really not impressed with Torain.

Here's how I see Torain:

He likes to keep the play frontside he's not looking to cutback, which limits the explosive runs he can make (on his own) in this scheme.

I also think Torrain is right not to look for the cutback because he doesn't cutback very well, which might be because of his upright running style and stiff hips.

He also lacks the top end speed to exploit the huge holes when then happen.

Torrain's best ability is that for some reason he's hard to bring down, he doesn't have wiggle nor does it look like he's running hard, but he's tough to bring down.

Torrain success as a runner comes from trusting/being dependent on the OL and his ability to stay up.

And at a 4.5 ypc carry clip he's not a bad back.

[mojo]

Here's how I see Torain:

He likes to keep the play frontside he's not looking to cutback, which limits the explosive runs he can make (on his own) in this scheme.

I also think Torrain is right not to look for the cutback because he doesn't cutback very well, which might be because of his upright running style and stiff hips.

He also lacks the top end speed to exploit the huge holes when then happen.

Torrain's best ability is that for some reason he's hard to bring down, he doesn't have wiggle nor does it look like he's running hard, but he's tough to bring down.

Torrain success as a runner comes from trusting/being dependent on the OL and his ability to stay up.

And at a 4.5 ypc carry clip he's not a bad back.

I think that's a quality assessment. Torain's most impressive quality is that he rarely goes down after first contact. He may not have many long TD runs but his ability to avoid losses behind the line of scrimmage (especially with our O line) is impressive. He did that a bunch last year.

[Conn]

Here's how I see Torain:

He likes to keep the play frontside he's not looking to cutback, which limits the explosive runs he can make (on his own) in this scheme.

I also think Torrain is right not to look for the cutback because he doesn't cutback very well, which might be because of his upright running style and stiff hips.

He also lacks the top end speed to exploit the huge holes when then happen.

Torrain's best ability is that for some reason he's hard to bring down, he doesn't have wiggle nor does it look like he's running hard, but he's tough to bring down.

Torrain success as a runner comes from trusting/being dependent on the OL and his ability to stay up.

And at a 4.5 ypc carry clip he's not a bad back.

This isn't a bad review of Torain at all. Very accurate, actually. I'm just not a fan, despite his production. Actually, his production is kind of baffling to me, since he doesn't seem to break tackles so much as they just...slide down him, where his straight-ahead, choppy footwork does the rest. It's interesting because my eyes tell me he's not a talented runner, and that for his size he's not a very bruising runner (save one memorable highlight vs. the Eagles in the RZ I believe), but his production says otherwise. He's not the type of runner I watch and expect to make it through contact behind the line, but he really does.

I don't know, his production is very confusing to me, but it can't be a fluke. I just think that Hightower is more talented overall.

[CommandB11]

I think that's a quality assessment. Torain's most impressive quality is that he rarely goes down after first contact. He may not have many long TD runs but his ability to avoid losses behind the line of scrimmage (especially with our O line) is impressive. He did that a bunch last year.

I feel that with our improved line that torain may find himself out in the cold as a direct result of his inability of making quick cuts. I do however feel that he deserves every chance he can get to be our starter. Last years effort gave him that

[darrelgreenie]

I don't know, his production is very confusing to me, but it can't be a fluke. I just think that Hightower is more talented overall.

Oh, I agree that Hightower is the better back.

But you know how this forum is if you say you like X then everyone assumes you hate Y just wanted to get out in front of it the rash responses.

I think Torain production is a result of Bobby Turner and Mike's ZBS running system.

---------- Post added August-1st-2011 at 12:10 AM ----------

BTW-Who is the Cards GM? They should fire this guy for cause.

He got taken by the Eagles then he gives away a RB for an aging (but productive) DL and a late round pick?

[Conn]

Seriously. Even if he sat behind Wells and Williams most snaps, no way is he worth less than a late-rounder...especially with BOTH of those RB's injury concerns. I mean, come on.

And then the Kolb trade....****.

[Commander Chaaarmnder]

good stuff

[addicted]

Definitely an immediate downgrade to the D line and we have plenty of young RBs... but that aside its a pretty nice deal. Hightower could easily become the #1 back this year and in the future

Great post. Guys your not appreciating the value Vonnie Holiday brought to our team last year

There's no doubt in my mind Vonnie was going to be released. FO continues to impress me on a daily basis...

I have little reason to think this is at all true. If we were going to release Holiday we would have been making a pretty boneheaded mistake imo

Don't know what's not to like here.

35 year old on the downside of his career moved out for a 25 year old RB who'll cost us the extra 6th we've picked up in 2012 if he pans out.

Are some forgetting we're in a rebuild?

Hail.

Please read this:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/03/28/secret-superstar-vonnie-holliday/

2010 was another year where Holliday finished in the top ten of our 3-4 defensive end rankings. He ended up ninth (after two years in the top three) and played exceptionally well in nickel situations. Ending the year with only three sacks isn’t going to set any tongues wagging, but his 25 total quarterback disruptions on 295 pass rushes was the fifth best ratio of any 3-4 end.

That was better than ends like Darnell Dockett, Glenn Dorsey and Luis Castillo. Players with bigger reps, and bigger contracts.

Reading a Cardinals forum, they think they got the better of the deal. I guess they really had a need on the D-line, which we, obviously don't.

If they get a 6th rounder and Holiday then they did. If they got a 7th I think it's a push but also depends on how Hightower performs. With Holiday you have a great role playing DE you know your going to get production from. If Hightower doesn't work out this was a bad trade for us

[Coolio47]

I'm sorry but this move is just puzzling to me.