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Per Adam Schefter: Arizona trades Tim Hightower to Skins for Vonnie Holliday and pick


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I agree that Torain is the bigger back.

But, I think Hightower has better vision, better ability to cut/juke, more willingness to make a hard cut, more quickness, more breakaway speed.

I guess will see over the course of training camp and this season.

Nice quote in your sig from Kyle Shanahan.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Sounds like we got fleeced, this guy is nothing special. Guy put the football on the ground too much and for AZ to trade him says a LOT because they have no runners.

The trade starting to look like a smart move to you yet?

---------- Post added August-20th-2011 at 02:52 AM ----------

hightower is such a bum. this means royster is a s good as gone and i believe royster will be much better than hightower

All I can say is Wow. He hasn't looked like a bum to me.

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I was thinking about this last night. Feel bad for the Cards, it has not turned out well for them. Glad we got Hightower, but man, you have to feel sorry for Williams.

We definitely got the better end of that deal though, Hightower looks amazing in this offense.

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Beenie Wells is still there right?

Yeah, he's there, but where RB was a strength for them, it's now a weakness. And, from what I've heard (since I haven't watched their preseason this year), Wells hasn't show the kind of breakaway burst speed. So, it makes their running game one dimensional now.

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Beenie Wells is still there right?

Indeed he is, but he hasn't been able to stay healthy and is very, how should I put this..."blah" on the field. If you get to watch him play, he always seems very disinterested and like he's got something better going on somewhere else and just wants to get back to whatever it is instead of focusing on the game.

He's played in 29 games, only started 2 for his career so far. He has 292 carries for 1,190 yds for a 4.1 avg and 9 td's. His best season was his rookie rushing for 793 yds and 7 td's, while only putting up 397 yds and 2 td's over 2 starts in 13 games last year. Granted the QB situation was horrible, but "Beenie Weenie" early in his career has looked the part of backup running back, nothing more.

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I was thinking about this last night. Feel bad for the Cards, it has not turned out well for them. Glad we got Hightower, but man, you have to feel sorry for Williams.

We definitely got the better end of that deal though, Hightower looks amazing in this offense.

I agree from what I've seen. Vonnie Holliday is in the twilight of his career, so he should enjoy the sunshine in Arizona and probably looking at vacation home property there.

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I agree that Torain is the bigger back.

But, I think Hightower has better vision, better ability to cut/juke, more willingness to make a hard cut, more quickness, more breakaway speed.

I guess will see over the course of training camp and this season.

Tim is actually listed as bigger than Torain is. Torain is the slightly taller back, but I don't think he's quite as thick. Torain always struck me as having a broad shouldered, long armed build that tapers at the waist making him look kind of thin for a running back.

I've stood next to Hightower and he's enormous. I've never been to training camp, so that really gave me a sense of how larger than life these NFL players really are. Tim is a tall back himself, seemed a bit taller than I am and he's just big looking. Must be the hair.

When you walked by the weight room during football season they had a board with all of the top workout numbers from the team. Tim set almost all of our high marks, even beating out our WRs and DBs in a lot of the speed drills. He's a high 4.4/low 4.5 guy and I think his 40 time on the board was in that range. He didn't time super fast at the combine, but he was probably the fastest sprinter on our team and he broke a ton of long runs his senior year where he just outraced everyone up the sidelines.

I think you're right that Hightower is quicker and more agile than Torain. I'd bet my life that he's also smarter, more coachable, and harder working too. Not to say Torain isn't smart, coachable, and hardworking, but Hightower is a Richmond man.

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So the cards need a RB? I wonder if they'll take Torain?

I was actually thinking the same thing. They are going to have 4 legitimate RBs on the roster: Hightower, Helu, Royster and Torain. They CAN carry all 4 if they want, but I don't believe that 2 of them play specials. Then you have potentially K. Williams and Paulsen at FB. That's a lot of RBs.

Allen keeps saying that he thinks there will be a lot of trades at the end of camp. I think at this point Hightower and Helu are locks to make and play on Sundays. Royster is "solid" but not spectacular. Torain is perpetually hurt, though this last one is not really his fault. Getting a helmet to the arm (I think that's what it was) and breaking it can happen to anybody.

So George might have some options here. Royster has probably shown enough to have some trade value, and Torain has last years tape. Does one of them get traded? Things that make you go hmmm.

This is turning out to be one hell of a trade for us. If Hightower keeps his play up into the regular season, I think the team pulled off an unbelievable deal.

Combine this with the trades for Jamal Brown (I think for a 6th? Maybe a 4th? I can't remember), Beck (for a player who the Raven's cut and the 'Skins re-signed, so for nothing), and all of the trades in the draft to pick up 12 picks with 4, it looks like Allen and Shanahan are being pretty good in the trade dept. They also managed to get something for JC (a 4th this year), McNabb and Haynesworth when they had virtually no trade value...

With the noteable exception of the McNabb acquisition for a 2 and 4

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I was actually thinking the same thing. They are going to have 4 legitimate RBs on the roster: Hightower, Helu, Royster and Torain. They CAN carry all 4 if they want, but I don't believe that 2 of them play specials. Then you have potentially K. Williams and Paulsen at FB. That's a lot of RBs.

Allen keeps saying that he thinks there will be a lot of trades at the end of camp. I think at this point Hightower and Helu are locks to make and play on Sundays. Royster is "solid" but not spectacular. Torain is perpetually hurt, though this last one is not really his fault. Getting a helmet to the arm (I think that's what it was) and breaking it can happen to anybody.

So George might have some options here. Royster has probably shown enough to have some trade value, and Torain has last years tape. Does one of them get traded? Things that make you go hmmm.

Combine this with the trades for Jamal Brown (I think for a 6th? Maybe a 4th? I can't remember), Beck (for a player who the Raven's cut and the 'Skins re-signed, so for nothing), and all of the trades in the draft to pick up 12 picks with 4, it looks like Allen and Shanahan are being pretty good in the trade dept. They also managed to get something for JC (a 4th this year), McNabb and Haynesworth when they had virtually no trade value...

With the noteable exception of the McNabb acquisition for a 2 and 4

George? What year is this? Lol

I don't see many trades. Guys are going to get cut. Young is FB. Helu, hightower and one other back make the roster. I think Royster goes ps.

I just see most of the moves coming after camp being cuts and signings, not trades.

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I was thinking about this last night. Feel bad for the Cards, it has not turned out well for them. Glad we got Hightower, but man, you have to feel sorry for Williams.

We definitely got the better end of that deal though, Hightower looks amazing in this offense.

Yeah I know I was a fan of Williams at VT and hope the kid is able to bounce back next year. In the meanwhile the Cards are gonna have to look for a veteran back to help shoulder some of the load, I don't know that Wells or LHS can be a workhorse.

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I'm glad you guys like Timmy, I knew you would. He was one of my favorite players, and he is a stud around the goal line. Frankly, I would have rather traded Beanie. TH's fumbles were his only downfall, hopefully he has turned that around. The trade is biting us in the rear since we lost our rookie for the season last night against GB, I hope the kid can come back as he was going to be a good one.

I will say Vonnie looks like a good acquisition for us, he's contributing and he's a leader, hopefully we can get a few years out of him before he hangs them up. He won't need to play every play, so that may help him.

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Yeah I know I was a fan of Williams at VT and hope the kid is able to bounce back next year. In the meanwhile the Cards are gonna have to look for a veteran back to help shoulder some of the load, I don't know that Wells or LHS can be a workhorse.

Think they'd be willing to trade a pick for Torain? :ols:

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Combine this with the trades for Jamal Brown (I think for a 6th? Maybe a 4th? I can't remember), Beck (for a player who the Raven's cut and the 'Skins re-signed, so for nothing), and all of the trades in the draft to pick up 12 picks with 4, it looks like Allen and Shanahan are being pretty good in the trade dept. They also managed to get something for JC (a 4th this year), McNabb and Haynesworth when they had virtually no trade value...

With the noteable exception of the McNabb acquisition for a 2 and 4

JB wasn't necessarily a great deal since we could have gotten him in FA this year and he didn't play well last season. But whatever, he's extended and here and ready to go instead of bringing in a new guy who'd have to learn the playbook form scratch.

I didn't care for the Jarmon and Justin Tryon trades. Tryon ended up haunting us a little because he became Indy's top CB and a quality starter that season and Phil Buchanon had a rough year up until the final few games. Fortunately, the loss of Jarmon's value as a pass rushing lineman is replaced by the subsequent signing of Bown and Cofield, both of whom are better players. Gaffney also has a chance for steady production here and adds another seasoned greybeard to a WR corps filled with rookies and sophomores.

I also wouldn't necessarily count the value we got in return for Campbell, McNabb, and Haynesworth as "wins." Keep in mind that Campbell was a youngish starting QB and we got what ammounted to a 6th rounder for him at the time of the deal. That's not very good. Then again, that pick increases in value as each season passes to it matches it's real value, so a fourth round pick two years down the road is somewhat more valuable than an immediate sixth rounder.

At least we got something in return for them, and in general, this FO has acquired more picks than they've traded away. All these late rounders really add up too when you get these DeJon Gomes and Evan Royster like finds.

Carriker was probably their best deal in terms of getting the most bang for your buck. A pretty good starting defensive lineman for what, some fifth round positioning? That's phenomenal.

Hightower was an awesome deal too, you know he can put up huge numbers in this offense. It's tempered a bit by the fact that it involved the loss our best defensive lineman from the season before as well as a team leader. But all sources seem to indicate that Vonnie was going to be released anyway so that's not even a real cost of the trade. I like to think of it this way--half of McNabb got us Tim Hightower. That seems like a fantastic return value on the McNabb and Hightower trades this offseason when you put it like that.

If Beck ends up being good, that'll be the FO's coup though. Getting a quality starting QB for Doug Dutch is ridiculous. Look at what the Chiefs, Texans, and Cardinals had to pay for Matt Cassel, Matt Schaub, and Kevin Kolb. Schaub's a stud but it wouldn't surprise me if Beck has a better year than Kolb and Cassel. Then again, it would surprise me even less if Beck has a rough first year and gets benched.

When this FO restricts itself to making low key trades for mid to late round picks and lesser known guys who've flamed out in their old location or only got a chance for spot duty, they've been extremely productive. They've killed almost every single one of these types of trades while risking little. It's the big deals like the McNabb acquisition that they need to avoid. Everyone should avoid such trades. I think a good rule of thumb is don't trade first or second round picks for players over 30. Too risky with too little upside.

---------- Post added August-20th-2011 at 12:58 PM ----------

Also, don't forget how good this FO has been at using UDFA to get valuable contributors. Anthony Armstrong was such a terrific find and you have to love Banks. And the draft day trade downs have done a lot to flush the roster young players--18 draft picks in the last two years is a lot.

I hope we're talking about Eric McBride and Willie Smith as UDFA gems at this point a year or two from now.

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