Fergasun Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Does anyone think that all this BS posturing about the debt ceiling we've undergone in the past 3 months is useful to the country? Both parties are doing a little pander-dance to their base so they can talk a good game; and then are going to make the same agreement that they could've made months ago. This BS pisses me off more than anything in our democracy. It's obvious the GOP game-plan is to lock up the legislative process. It's obvious the Democratic game-plan would be to open up the legislative process. It's more fun in my mind when they are pretending to argue over less substantive issues. I think budgetary issues are way too serious to play these ridiculous games on. "Oh, Biden's on it." "Wow, the Biden talks are going to work". "Uh oh, Coburn is out of the Biden talks". "GOP says we're not going to be raising taxes!" "Hey, Boehner and Obama are playing golf; that's good news" Who knows what will happen next! They could've just compressed this all into a couple of weeks, instead they have to string the country out dramatically to act like they are tough and principled! It's obvious the debt ceiling will get raised with some cuts! I'm fairly certain they've got 90% of a deal on what those cuts will be and the target. They just can't tell the rest of the country. The same thing happened with Dodd-Frank (at least on the Senate side). The Senate Banking Committee got 90% of a framework in place; however they couldn't close the last 10%... to make it truly bipartisan (is that because the GOP didn't want to look tough on banking... no clue). Get it done and move on to pretending to create jobs please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 I am ready for the day that we stop talking about political parties. I feel like they all should be independent...on their thoughts and base. The BS about aligning with a party is absurd. I, (as most people are) fall between the lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan133 Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 I am ready for the day that we stop talking about political parties. I feel like they all should be independent...on their thoughts and base. The BS about aligning with a party is absurd. I, (as most people are) fall between the lines. impossible, human beings naturally make power coalitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Why not just default? we are ****ed anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Why not just default?we are ****ed anyway. If you default interest rates will climb so fast your head will spin You could lose the Bush tax cuts make cuts so as to not hurt the economy and turn things around in a few years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Oh come on Ferg, who doesn't like a good game of roulette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Oh come on Ferg, who doesn't like a good game of roulette. Russians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmySmith Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 If you default interest rates will climb so fast your head will spin. The chicken little response. The more we learn about the economics game the more we learn that the so-called experts haven't a clue what's going to happen. It's their flawed reasoning that got us here. When interest rates go so high that we cannot borrow, the world economy is doomed. Won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 The chicken little response. The more we learn about the economics game the more we learn that the so-called experts haven't a clue what's going to happen. It's their flawed reasoning that got us here. When interest rates go so high that we cannot borrow, the world economy is doomed. Won't happen. Yes it would happen and the fallout would be global When you guys screwed your housing market do you think it was felt in the US only? The troubles in Japan and Greece have influenced prices of commondities world wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 I sometimes wonder what would happen if the U.S. just decalred all its debts null and void. It could do that. What could the debtors do? A military response? Halt trade? Twiddle their thumbs and curse at us? Or what would happen if the U.S. declared bankrupsy? Silly thoughts, but I sometimes wonder about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 I sometimes wonder what would happen if the U.S. just decalred all its debts null and void. It could do that. What could the debtors do? A military response? Halt trade? Twiddle their thumbs and curse at us? Or what would happen if the U.S. declared bankrupsy?Silly thoughts, but I sometimes wonder about them. US would lose influence, US businesses doing business overseas and trading with nations would be put into a world of hurt credit would would get so tight people would begging for a post Lehman brothers economy of 08 Oh and the US would be in a position where they would have use the military more if they wanted to influence things in other nations But getting credit to pay for things would be out of the question that is why the whole IMF leadership thing right now is so tricky since they may play a bigger part in the coming months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmySmith Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Yes it would happen and the fallout would be globalThink about it. How could the US maintain a AAA bond rating with 13 trillion (and growing) debt? The only reason we are raising the debt ceiling is to raise money to pay our existing debt. And we think these economics experts know what they are doing? Do not raise the ceiling and dare S&P to lower the rating. They can't, and they know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 I said last year: There is no military force that could beat the United States and our Allies that would help us. But: Have the same countries stop supporting the dollar for reserve and we become Europe instantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjah Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 And we think these economics experts know what they are doing? Which experts are you talking about? Because the ones with real pull appear to know exactly what they're doing. You seem to believe that their actual job description is to move us in the direction of fixing our debt problem. I wouldn't be so quick to assume that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted June 29, 2011 Author Share Posted June 29, 2011 No politician on the GOP nor Democratic side thinks we can simply not raise the debt ceiling. Unfortunately they haven't really got the right message to the general public who is against raising the debt ceiling (obviously both parties need to be on the "same message".) Over the long run I think the difference is $5-6T with the most conservative ~ $20T and the most liberal going to $26T. My ideal situation is some smart/rich person tells the American people; "lets do this by Constitutional amendment, and let's raise it up to $25T... and take the issue out of politicians hands". an extra $12T sounds like plenty of room to move around... heck we can make it $30T. At that point the game is afoot... and Congress has to completely sell America going beyond whatever that number is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Why not just default?we are ****ed anyway. There's that conservative optimism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Think about it. How could the US maintain a AAA bond rating with 13 trillion (and growing) debt? The only reason we are raising the debt ceiling is to raise money to pay our existing debt. And we think these economics experts know what they are doing? Do not raise the ceiling and dare S&P to lower the rating. They can't, and they know it. Right, dammit. We're too big to fail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Think about it. How could the US maintain a AAA bond rating with 13 trillion (and growing) debt? The rating is the probability that the loans will be repaid. The only reason we are raising the debt ceiling is to raise money to pay our existing debt. And we think these economics experts know what they are doing? Do not raise the ceiling and dare S&P to lower the rating. They can't, and they know it. Why can't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 A deal will get done when it needs to get done, and not before. It's Scott Boras politics (that term is copywrited, 2011 PleaseBlitz). Both sides know that a deal has to get done, both sides know that waiting puts pressure on the other side and believe the other side has more to lose. Both sides know that if they are the ones to compromise before it is absolutley necessary, they will appear weak to their voting blocs (the far right and left, the middle just wants a reasonable deal quickly, but as usual, the middle gets ignored). Both sides know that the longer it drags on, the more their constituants thinks it's the OTHER sides fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmySmith Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Why can't they? OK, they can. But they won't. 13 trillion being openly being paid off with credit cards is what I have to say they won't. You have anything to make me believe they will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 OK, they can. But they won't. 13 trillion being openly being paid off with credit cards is what I have to say they won't. You have anything to make me believe they will? I'm just not understanding I guess. I don't see any reason why our rating wouldn't be downgraded. In fact, I think recently it was, or they at least threatened to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 I'm just not understanding I guess. I don't see any reason why our rating wouldn't be downgraded. In fact, I think recently it was, or they at least threatened to. Both Moody's and Standard and Poor have threatened to. ACTUALLY doing it would be a MAJOR MAJOR event and probably be almost as bad as a default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmySmith Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 I'm just not understanding I guess. I don't see any reason why our rating wouldn't be downgraded. In fact, I think recently it was, or they at least threatened to.Of course they threatened to and of course they didn't. Why didn't they is the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Both Moody's and Standard and Poor have threatened to. ACTUALLY doing it would be a MAJOR MAJOR event and probably be almost as bad as a default. What TimmySmith is saying is that even if we stopped paying our debts, our rating would remain AAA. What I'm saying is he hasn't presented any evidence to back that extraordinary claim, other than vague talk about economists. Or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Dick Cheney didn't seem to have a problem with debt. Of course, the Republicans were the ones raising it. Raise the debt, start cutting the DOD and foreign aid, and start raising taxes, cutting subsides etc. It's going to take all of that to get through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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