Discovery: Mike Rowe's Testimony Before the U.S. Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation

[China]

Mike Rowe's Testimony Before the U.S. Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation

Chairman Rockefeller, Ranking Member Hutchison and members of this committee, my name is Mike Rowe, and I want to thank you all very much for the opportunity to testify before you today.

I'm here today because of my grandfather.

His name was Carl Knobel, and he made his living in Baltimore as a master electrician. He was also a plumber, a mechanic, a mason, and a carpenter. Everyone knew him as a jack-of-all-trades. I knew him as a magician.

For most of his life, my grandfather woke up clean and came home dirty. In between, he accomplished things that were nothing short of miraculous. Some days he might re-shingle a roof. Or rebuild a motor. Or maybe run electricity out to our barn. He helped build the church I went to as a kid, and the farmhouse my brothers and I grew up in. He could fix or build anything, but to my knowledge he never once read the directions. He just knew how stuff worked.

I remember one Saturday morning when I was 12. I flushed the toilet in the same way I always had. The toilet however, responded in a way that was completely out of character. There was a rumbling sound, followed by a distant gurgle. Then, everything that had gone down reappeared in a rather violent and spectacular fashion.

Naturally, my grandfather was called in to investigate, and within the hour I was invited to join he and my dad in the front yard with picks and shovels.

By lunch, the lawn was littered with fragments of old pipe and mounds of dirt. There was welding and pipe-fitting, blisters and laughter, and maybe some questionable language. By sunset we were completely filthy. But a new pipe was installed, the dirt was back in the hole, and our toilet was back on its best behavior. It was one of my favorite days ever.

Thirty years later in San Francisco when my toilet blew up again. This time, I didn't participate in the repair process. I just called my landlord, left a check on the kitchen counter, and went to work. When I got home, the mess was cleaned up and the problem was solved. As for the actual plumber who did the work, I never even met him.

It occurred to me that I had become disconnected from a lot of things that used to fascinate me. I no longer thought about where my food came from, or how my electricity worked, or who fixed my pipes, or who made my clothes. There was no reason to. I had become less interested in how things got made, and more interested in how things got bought.

At this point my grandfather was well into his 80s, and after a long visit with him one weekend, I decided to do a TV show in his honor. Today, Dirty Jobs is still on the air, and I am here before this committee, hoping to say something useful. So, here it is.

I believe we need a national PR Campaign for Skilled Labor. A big one. Something that addresses the widening skills gap head on, and reconnects the country with the most important part of our workforce.

Right now, American manufacturing is struggling to fill 200,000 vacant positions. There are 450,000 openings in trades, transportation and utilities. The skills gap is real, and it's getting wider. In Alabama, a third of all skilled tradesmen are over 55. They're retiring fast, and no one is there to replace them.

Alabama's not alone. A few months ago in Atlanta I ran into Tom Vilsack, our Secretary of Agriculture. Tom told me about a governor who was unable to move forward on the construction of a power plant. The reason was telling. It wasn't a lack of funds. It wasn't a lack of support. It was a lack of qualified welders.

In general, we're surprised that high unemployment can exist at the same time as a skilled labor shortage. We shouldn't be. We've pretty much guaranteed it.

In high schools, the vocational arts have all but vanished. We've elevated the importance of "higher education" to such a lofty perch that all other forms of knowledge are now labeled "alternative." Millions of parents and kids see apprenticeships and on-the-job-training opportunities as "vocational consolation prizes," best suited for those not cut out for a four-year degree. And still, we talk about millions of "shovel ready" jobs for a society that doesn't encourage people to pick up a shovel.

Click on the link for the rest

[PeterMP]

I agree 100%

[DCsportsfan53]

Man makes some sound points, agree 100%. When did we become afraid of real work?

[Homercles82]

In high schools, the vocational arts have all but vanished. We've elevated the importance of "higher education" to such a lofty perch that all other forms of knowledge are now labeled "alternative." Millions of parents and kids see apprenticeships and on-the-job-training opportunities as "vocational consolation prizes," best suited for those not cut out for a four-year degree.

Excellent point. My wife and I talked about this the other day, and she was stressing about how we would pay for college for our little one. I metioned she may not go to college, and would prefer to take on a trade. It boggled my wife's mind that someone would not want to go to college nowadays because he family pushed everyone into college, and from that only 1 out of their 3 kids have degrees that are usable. I said vocational school is a totally viable option instead of college. College isn't for everyone, and the more we push meaningless, $50,000 degrees onto the kids, we lose everyday workers who run the country.

[Wrong Direction]

Man makes some sound points, agree 100%. When did we become afraid of real work?

What's really problematic to me is that skilled labor is actually quite lucrative, particularly if you run your own business, and we still don't have enough interested people.

There's decent thought being put to the idea that high school needs to really be reformed to include more trade development and less cookie-cutter classes that people don't necessarily need. It's hard to change institutions in that way, but I agree it needs to be done.

My uncle was a super intendent, and before that principal and teacher in a bad school district in New Jersey. The one program that both got kids interested AND improve behavior was his vocational program. Previously "bad" kids would suddenly come to school, not get in trouble, and actually excel at something. He always brags about that (now retired for over 10 years), but it's a thing of the past in too many places.

[zoony]

I love it. I think the biggest failure of modern education is the notion that all kids should go to college.

[Homercles82]

My uncle was a super intendent, and before that principal and teacher in a bad school district in New Jersey. The one program that both got kids interested AND improve behavior was his vocational program. Previously "bad" kids would suddenly come to school, not get in trouble, and actually excel at something. He always brags about that (now retired for over 10 years), but it's a thing of the past in too many places.

A couple of friends in high school hated being there but when they were eligible for vocational school they jumped on it. Both went into the masonry program, and now run masonry businesses in Virginia. You are 100% correct that it can get kids who otherwise hate school a tangible way to learn, and be job ready at graduation.

[Corcaigh]

This issue has existed for many decades here and in other countries. There is often pressure to provide a path to 'higher level learning' as if there is something 'lacking' with the trade or vocational skills. Sometimes this desire is admirable in intent, but more often its a bad fit.

My father was an advisor for several electrician courses at technical colleges and fought against other advisors who wanted to introduce advanced mathematics into the curriculum. The other advisors felt some of the students had the ability to move onto engineering degrees. But the inclusion of the advanced math would have prevented perfectly competent electricians from successfully completing the course.

I would much rather my kid did an appropriate vocational course, if that was what they were suited for, than some non-rigorous college degree.

[Wrong Direction]

I would much rather my kid did an appropriate vocational course, if that was what they were suited for, than some non-rigorous college degree.

Both make sense to me to some extent. I hate the non-rigorous college degree stuff as well, but some kids are college/office types and are just too young to know what they want to do and misguided, to some extent, by not taking college courses that are directly applicable to the real world.

But your point is right. We're not robots, we're different, and we school should reflect those differences. I could see vocational courses being a great generational bridge in poor school districts, for example. Dad's a plumber, makes good money and works hard. The next thing you know their kids are Dr.'s. That's how many successful generations were raised already, yet we seem to forget that fact.

[Thiebear]

That is currently the only show my children will stop everything and watch.

Edison HS has a good vocational, one of the guys that teaches there has small classes though.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

The problem is at the high school level. And it is related to the Vietnam War and state budget problems.

Prior to the 70s, a lot of high schools had "college" and "vocational" tracks. On the vocational track, you took "trade" classes along with your basic English, Math, Civics, etc. Basically, you were supposed to graduated literate, capable of balancing a check book, and able to vote. You could conceivably get a job out of high school - particularly if you lived in a manufacturing town. Or you could go to a vocational school and get the certification you needed to do whatever.

Vietnam made that track a lot less desirable. Why because of student deferrments. If you went to college, you were not drafted. That's the origin of the "Everyone should go to college" belief. Colleges mad a lot of money off the GI BIll in the 40s, 50s, and 60s and liked making a lot of money off the kids who did not want to go to Vietnam. So, they obviously encouraged this idea. (The concept of grade inflation also began here. Professors knew that if they flunked a male student, there was a chance he was going to get drafted as a result. Hence, Fs became C-minuses).

Anyway, as you move along, vocational classes are still there but there is less of a tradition for students to go into them. Also, they are really quite expensive to deliver. So, when it comes to budget cuts, it's a lot easier to cut shop than it is your core curriculum - particularly if the state testing that determines everything features math questions but not auto shop questions.

[zoony]

The problem is at the high school level. And it is related to the Vietnam War and state budget problems.

Prior to the 70s' date=' a lot of high schools had "college" and "vocational" tracks. On the vocational track, you took "trade" classes along with your basic English, Math, Civics, etc. Basically, you were supposed to graduated literate, capable of balancing a check book, and able to vote. You could conceivably get a job out of high school - particularly if you lived in a manufacturing town. Or you could go to a vocational school and get the certification you needed to do whatever.[/quote']

I think you're underestimating the class/race warfare part.

You suggest that all inner-city Atlanta schools should start training the kids to be plumbers, let me know how it works out for you

[techboy]

Edison HS has a good vocational, one of the guys that teaches there has small classes though.

That's part of the Academy program in Fairfax County, and an example of the problem.

Students are bussed from all over to take courses there (and other schools, like Hayfield and West Potomac), which requires a travel period, allowing for fewer courses.

You then get a situation where some students, due to poor performance in academic classes, need to repeat courses, and so don't have the room to take the academy courses, which means that many of the students who would benefit most from vocational training end up being excluded.

The problem is really parental and societal. Everybody believes their children are from Lake Woebegon, and are destined for four year college, even if they agree that more vocational training is appropriate for somebody else's child.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I think you're underestimating the class/race warfare part.

You suggest that all inner-city Atlanta schools should start training the kids to be plumbers, let me know how it works out for you

That's a whole other ball of wax. Once you enter urban school politics, you are entering a land where the rules of logic and occasionally physics no longer apply. But it's not like urban schools were training black kids to be plumbers in the 40s or 50s either, and that's when there were vocational programs.

I think we've largely created a problem where ANY kind of manual labor is seen as "lower class" work, and I think that's because the manufacturing base in this country is dead. At one point, if you were a union auto worker in Detroit, you were widely regarded as middle class. You might even be upper middle class or upper class if you had the right job. My grandfather was a roller in a steel mill. He viewed crane operators as some kind of aristocrats, like I should bow when introduced to one. My other grandfather had a "company" job in the mill, which meant he was salaried. My Union Grandfather called my Company Grandfahter "Mister _____." until his death. Because of that cutlure where manual labor was viewed as widely acceptable, you could dream of being a plumber or carpenter or tv repairman or auto mechanic and not be viewed as some kind of derelict. Hell, if you played your cards right, you could be a "small business owner" and have the largest ad in the high school yearbook and football program. Take that, Dr. Weinstein and Burger King on State Highway 8!!!!

We need to somehow retrain the entire middle class that they are not failures as parents if their kids end up in a vo-tech school.

[Popeman38]

Well, when you live in an area where jaws literally drop if you say you don't have a college degree, and people will actually avoid you because you obviously can't be smart, what do you expect? There are people on this very board who have elitist tendencies when it comes to education. And you are constantly bombarded by ads stating "it is common knowledge that those with a college degree will earn on average $1,000,000 more than those without on over the course of their career".

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Well, when you live in an area where jaws literally drop if you say you don't have a college degree, and people will actually avoid you because you obviously can't be smart, what do you expect? There are people on this very board who have elitist tendencies when it comes to education. And you are constantly bombarded by ads stating "it is common knowledge that those with a college degree will earn on average $1,000,000 more than those without on over the course of their career".

One of my best friends is actually an executive in my company. He jokes all the time that he had the choice of getting a college education and law school or having his dad buy him a backhoe and dump truck. He says that if he had taken the equipment, he would probably be a self-employed millionaire right now instead of a stressed-out VP with an underwater mortgage.

[#98QBKiller]

Great article, thanks for sharing. I agree with him 100 percent.

[Forehead]

It's a shame there's not a way for kids to follow both. I'm happy in my job, just finished my MBA, make a pretty good salary. But other than a few basic projects, or a bigger one (that I have to spend a lot of time on the Internet researching) I'm pretty useless when it comes to fixing things. Learning how to do some basic manual jobs would have been a nice complement to classes which prepared me for college.

[artmonkforHOF]

I can't stand how education has turned it's back on the vocational teaching and the sad thing is the war was almost over by the time I graduated HS in 1997. At that time administrators where looking for any excuse to kill the vocational classes. I took a drafting class, which had budget cuts every year to the point where they could no longer supply paper to the class the year I took it, we bought our own. Then one day mid semester, there was a small ammonia spill with the blue print machine and a female gym teacher complained of the smell in the parking lot. They almost shut down my drafting class right then and there, it was only after student protest-which got ugly- did they keep the class open for that year and then kill it of the following school year. We later found out the money that had been allocated to the shop class budget was used to paint a mural on a wall students where not even allowed to see since the area around it was considered out of bounds.

The guidance councillor at our school -which by the way was called (city name)High and Vocational School- used to laugh at kids who did not want to go to college and wanted to learn a trade instead. I remember that condescending ***** telling one kid "well go apply, you don't need my help to get into that "school" (she said that with sarcasm)" when he asked for help when applying to a welding college. She was more interested in getting kids to take Geography at the local University, than helping them find a career, she was completely useless in helping anyone who did not want to get a Bachelor's degree, and even talked down to the kids applying to community college as if they would have no future with the path they where taking. The stupid lady told people to go get undergraduate degrees but forgot to tell those same kids the degree's are worthless without post graduate degrees.

Funny thing is a lot of Geography grads from that local University where employed in the area; 17 out of the 18 full time waiters/waitresses at the first Outback Steakhouse restaurant in Canada had a Bachelor of Geography, the other had a graduated with Honours in English Lit.

[Larry]

The problem is at the high school level. And it is related to the Vietnam War and state budget problems.

Prior to the 70s' date=' a lot of high schools had "college" and "vocational" tracks. On the vocational track, you took "trade" classes along with your basic English, Math, Civics, etc. Basically, you were supposed to graduated literate, capable of balancing a check book, and able to vote. You could conceivably get a job out of high school - particularly if you lived in a manufacturing town. Or you could go to a vocational school and get the certification you needed to do whatever.

Vietnam made that track a lot less desirable. Why because of student deferrments. If you went to college, you were not drafted. That's the origin of the "Everyone should go to college" belief. Colleges mad a lot of money off the GI BIll in the 40s, 50s, and 60s and liked making a lot of money off the kids who did not want to go to Vietnam. So, they obviously encouraged this idea. (The concept of grade inflation also began here. Professors knew that if they flunked a male student, there was a chance he was going to get drafted as a result. Hence, Fs became C-minuses).

Anyway, as you move along, vocational classes are still there but there is less of a tradition for students to go into them. Also, they are really quite expensive to deliver. So, when it comes to budget cuts, it's a lot easier to cut shop than it is your core curriculum - particularly if the state testing that determines everything features math questions but not auto shop questions.[/quote']

My perspective pretty much fits with yours, but probably from a different perspective.

My Mom taught vocational trades (specifically, restaurant trades) in Fairfax County.

Seemed like every Fairfax County school followed the same pattern. The "good" students were all located up next to the main entrance. They took AP Calculus and advanced Chemistry and things. And when people came to tour the school, that's the parts that the school bragged about.

The vocational department was located as far from the front door as they could get it. And whenever the school had a discipline-problem kid, that's where they sent him. The "problem" kids took carpentry, and shop, and auto body.

A while back, the thought occurred to me, that those kids who took carpentry and plumbing and auto mechanics and so forth? I wonder how many of them, today, are driving around town in an F-150 with a ladder rack on the roof, and their name on the door, and they aren't worried about being outsourced?

(I suspect that many of those folks who went into the construction trades might not be living the high life, right now. But even then, I'd bet that a lot of folks who aren't buying new houses, are still getting existing ones repaired. And I'd bet that having less work that usual beats heck out of being unemployed completely.)

----------

And, just on an emotional level, I suspect that there's some job satisfaction in knowing how to, say, fix a broken toilet.

---------- Post added May-13th-2011 at 01:40 PM ----------

One of my best friends is actually an executive in my company. He jokes all the time that he had the choice of getting a college education and law school or having his dad buy him a backhoe and dump truck. He says that if he had taken the equipment' date=' he would probably be a self-employed millionaire right now instead of a stressed-out VP with an underwater mortgage.[/quote']

Best selling car in America, among millionaires, is the Ford F-150.

[artmonkforHOF]

Another telling sign of a loss of trades was my grandfather who was a machinist. He retired at 60 in the early 1980's. He got called back to work, at 4x his old salary in 1989, sadly he was battling stomach cancer at the time and could not go, but many of his ex -coworkers who like him had been hired either during or just after WWII made more money in the last 5 years they worked than in the last 25 years before retirement all because there where no qualified machinists available and even machinists who graduated from a trade school still needed a few years of on the job specific training before being able to replace the old guys.

I think the problem is that education has focused too much on teaching academics rather than skills. I know people who want to go teach high school shop class who have been mechanics for 30+ years, but are rejected because they do not have either a Bachelors degree or a teaching certificate which you need a Bachelors degree to get. That type of system is doomed to fail the kids who want to learn a vocation, as the most qualified teachers are told they are not even allowed to apply. Not every high school teacher needs to have a Bachelor's degree, especially if their area of expertise is not taught at University campuses.

[Larry]

I know people who want to go teach high school shop class who have been mechanics for 30+ years, but are rejected because they do not have either a Bachelors degree or a teaching certificate which you need a Bachelors degree to get. That type of system is doomed to fail the kids who want to learn a vocation, as the most qualified teachers are told they are not even allowed to apply. Not every high school teacher needs to have a Bachelor's degree, especially if their area of expertise is not taught at University campuses.

I'm not certain that you're wrong, but I'd like to toss out an opposing position, here, though.

The fact that somebody may well be a really good mechanic doesn't automatically mean they'd be a good teacher.

In theory, one of the things that teachers are supposed to learn, as part of their education, is how to teach.

(Insert thousands of anecdotal opinions on how well the theory is working, in reality, here. )

[artmonkforHOF]

One of my best friends is actually an executive in my company. He jokes all the time that he had the choice of getting a college education and law school or having his dad buy him a backhoe and dump truck. He says that if he had taken the equipment' date=' he would probably be a self-employed millionaire right now instead of a stressed-out VP with an underwater mortgage.[/quote']

My High school valedictorian has degrees in engineering, biochemistry, a PHD in physics a MBA and is still paying off his student loans and does not have a full time job. One kid from my class who dropped out in the 10th grade and started a scrap metal hauling business is now the richest kid from my class (who did not inherit his $) as his 1 truck company has now expanded into one of Canada's largest scrap metal recycling company, buying out former giant players in the business along the way. Rumors are he is about to sell his remaining stake in the company for between $600 and $800 million dollars. And this guy will not turn 35 for another 2 full years.

The next most successful self made kid from my class that I know about dropped out in the 11th grade to help on his family farm and he patented a device that has something to do with chicken farming and sold the patent for a small fortune. He is now pretty much retired and buys farm land and other real estate to as he puts it "keep his mind and hands busy" when not working or racing his drag car.

But those guys future's are dead since they do not even have a high school diploma, the valedictorian, now that guy has a future. At least that is what has been taught to my generation.

---------- Post added May-13th-2011 at 02:23 PM ----------

I'm not certain that you're wrong, but I'd like to toss out an opposing position, here, though.

The fact that somebody may well be a really good mechanic doesn't automatically mean they'd be a good teacher.

In theory, one of the things that teachers are supposed to learn, as part of their education, is how to teach.

(Insert thousands of anecdotal opinions on how well the theory is working, in reality, here. )

that's fine then allow them entry to teacher's college without having a Bachelor's degree, something that is a prerequisite at the moment. Why does a mechanic need a bachelor's degree in anything to teach shop? The point is they are not even allowed to apply to find out if they would be good teachers unless they have a degree.