Various sources: Osama bin Laden is dead. (Merged)

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Obama isn't releasing photos lmao. Anyone who agrees with that decision should not be taken seriously. Morons defend anything that man does. I rest my case. I have to admit, I was very surprised by this decision. I thought for sure he would release a photo. I guess the 1984ers and Fluoriders don't care to see any photos. The gubbermint telling them what to believe is good enough.

You know you need to make a case before you can rest one right?

[#98QBKiller]

Reuters obtained these photos of the tail rotor of the downed helicopter, the compound and some of the dead men inside it. WARNING: The photos are very graphic.

In my view, the most interesting photograph is the one of the tail rotor. Government officials said MH-60s were involved in the operation, but that tail rotor definitely did not come from a MH-60. In fact, that tail rotor doesn't belong to any military helicopter I'm aware of. It looks very advanced and unusual.

Interesting photo of the helicopter. If the Bin laden pic is as clear as the others, then there should be no mistaking his identity.

You know you need to make a case before you can rest one right?

Lol, very true.

[Burgold]

You know you need to make a case before you can rest one right?

I think what he's saying is that he wanted a photo that could be blown up poster-sized and used and exploited by every Western hating fanatic to make it easier to martyr Bin Laden. I'm pretty sure that's what he's saying anyway.

Think about how that photo gets used and by whom. Sure, some of us would like to spit on his grave, kick his corpse, or sneer at the photo of him lying dead and impotent, but others would take it and they would make it their symbol of heroic sacrifice and ultimate courage.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

You know what, that tail from the crash site still doesn't fit the Sea Hawk. I don't know what it is. If they used something and modded it, it would be the Sea Hawk. But even then, the size isn't right. Whatever it is, it isn't standard.

Thanks Madison. Now you got me stuck on this. I got finals to work on but I'm gonna keep thinking about it.

I'm gonna email a couple of people too. I'm thinking it's something like a Sea Hawk or Black Hawk, but with stealth and some more on it. Which would make sense since they were coming completely unannounced.

[Stadium-Armory]

Here's your "low-observable" copter:

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2011/05/army-mission-helocopter-was-secret-stealth-black-hawk-050411/

Mission helo was secret stealth Black Hawk

By Sean D. Naylor - Staff writer

Posted : Wednesday May 4, 2011 18:07:39 EDT

The helicopters that flew the Navy SEALs on the mission to kill Osama bin Laden were a radar-evading variant of the special operations MH-60 Black Hawk, according to a retired special operations aviator.

The helicopter’s low-observable technology is similar to that of the F-117 Stealth Fighter the retired special operations aviator said. “It really didn’t look like a traditional Black Hawk,” he said. It had “hard edges, sort of like an … F-117, you know how they have those distinctive edges and angles — that’s what they had on this one.”

In addition, “in order to keep the radar cross-section down, you have to do something to treat the windshield,” he said. If a special coating was applied to the windshield it is “very plausible” that would make the helicopter more difficult to fly for pilots wearing night-vision goggles, he said. The helicopters carrying the SEALs arrived over the bin Laden compound at about 1 a.m. Monday morning local time. One crash landed in the courtyard and was so badly damaged it was unable to take off again.

That crash landing might have been caused by a phenomenon known as “settling with power,” which occurs when a helicopter descends too quickly because its rotors cannot get the lift required from the turbulent air of their own downwash. “It’s hard to settle with power in a Black Hawk, but then again, if they were using one of these [low-observable helicopters], working at max gross weight, it’s certainly plausible that they could have because they would have been flying so heavy,” the retired special operations aviator said, noting that low-observable modifications added “several hundred pounds” to the weight of the MH-60, which already weighs about 500 to 1000 pounds more than a regular UH-60 Black Hawk.

The special operations troops on the bin Laden mission destroyed the stricken aircraft — most likely using thermite grenades — but the resultant fire left the helicopter’s tail boom, tail rotor assembly and horizontal stabilizers intact in the compound’s courtyard.

Photographs of the wreckage taken the next day raced around the Internet, creating a firestorm of speculation among military aviation enthusiasts because the tail of the helicopter did not resemble any officially acknowledged U.S. military airframe.

This was to be expected, the retired special operations aviator said. “Certain parts of the fuselage, the nose and the tail had these various almost like snap-on parts to them that gave it the very unique appearance,” he said. He and another source referred to the disc-shaped device that is seen covering the tail rotor in the photographs as a “hubcap.”

If the radar-evading technology worked, it “would be a true statement” to say that the use of the low-observable Black Hawks was evidence that the United States gave Pakistani authorities no advance warning of the mission, the retired special operations aviator added.

The low-observable program started with AH-6 Little Bird special operations attack helicopters in the 1980s, said the aviator. During the 1990s U.S. Special Operations Command worked with the Lockheed-Martin Skunk Works division, which also designed the F-117, to refine the radar-evading technology and apply it to the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment’s MH-60s, he said. USSOCOM awarded a contract to Boeing to modify several MH-60s to the low-observable design “in the ’99 to 2000 timeframe,” he said.

Initial plans called for the low-observable Black Hawks to be formed into a new unit commanded by a lieutenant colonel and located at a military facility in Nevada, the retired special operations aviator said. “The intent was always to move it out west where it could be kept in a covered capability,” he said.

USSOCOM planned to assign about 35 to 50 personnel to the unit, the retired special operations aviator said. “There were going to be four [low-observable] aircraft, they were going to have a couple of ‘slick’ unmodified Black Hawks, and that was going to be their job was to fly the low-observables.”

SOCOM canceled those plans “within the last two years,” but not before at least some of the low-observable helicopters had been delivered to the Nevada facility, the retired aviator said. “I don’t know if it was for money or if it was because the technology was not achieving the reduction in the radar cross-section that they were hoping for,” he said. In the meantime, MH-60 Black Hawk crews from the 160th’s 1st Battalion, headquartered at Fort Campbell, Ky., would rotate to Nevada to train on the stealthy aircraft, he said.

The low-observable MH-60s were armed with the same sort of door mini-guns as standard MH-60s, he said. “There was not a DAP conversion,” he added, referring to the MH-60 variant known as the Direct Action Penetrator, which is equipped with stub wings upon which can be fitted a variety of armaments.

The early versions of the low-observable Black Hawks were not fitted with air-to-air refueling probes, the retired special operations aviator said. “The probe would disrupt the ability to reduce the radar cross-section,” he added. “There was no way to put some kind of a hub or cowling over the probe that would make it stealthy.” However, he said he did not know whether the models that flew the bin Laden mission had been equipped with such probes.

USSOCOM spokesman Army Col. Tim Nye said his command had no comment for this story.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Seriously, is the White House just doing this on purpose to f with people like me?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/8493391/Osama-bin-Laden-dead-Blackout-during-raid-on-bin-Laden-compound.html

Osama bin Laden dead: Blackout during raid on bin Laden compound

The head of the CIA admitted yesterday that there was no live video footage of the raid on Osama bin Laden's compound as further doubts emerged about the US version of events.

Leon Panetta, director of the CIA, revealed there was a 25 minute blackout during which the live feed from cameras mounted on the helmets of the US special forces was cut off.

A photograph released by the White House appeared to show the President and his aides in the situation room watching the action as it unfolded. In fact they had little knowledge of what was happening in the compound.

Mr Panetta said: "Once those teams went into the compound I can tell you that there was a time period of almost 20 or 25 minutes where we really didn't know just exactly what was going on. And there were some very tense moments as we were waiting for information.

"We had some observation of the approach there, but we did not have direct flow of information as to the actual conduct of the operation itself as they were going through the compound."

Mr Panetta also revealed that the US Navy Seals made the final decision to kill bin Laden rather than the president.

He said: "The authority here was to kill bin Laden. And obviously, under the rules of engagement, if he had in fact thrown up his hands, surrendered and didn't appear to be representing any kind of threat, then they were to capture him. But they had full authority to kill him.

Link for rest

[War Paint]

English! I want my son speaking English!!

It's bad enough his name is Hector!!!

(Seriously...did you write this' date=' translate it into Italian via Babelfish and then translate it back again?)[/quote']

You don't understand english?

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

Yep - stealth helicopter....****ing bad ass.

They pulled out all the stops. Explains why Pakistan had no idea

[War Paint]

You know you need to make a case before you can rest one right?

I don't have to prove anything. I wasn't the one who told the world that Bin Laden was killed. They need to prove it.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I don't have to prove anything. I wasn't the one who told the world that Bin Laden was killed. They need to prove it.

He is for sure dead. This would be a huge blunder if he showed up 10 years from now in NYC

However, I think its fair game to question the actual "how" it happened, because the WH is just messing with my head now on all the details that keep coming out contradicting each other

[@DCGoldPants]

at first I wanted photos released. But when they said we're not looking for trophies (I think a dig at Bush's mounting of Saddam's gun) makes sense. You release the picture and next thing you know kids have t-shirts at beach week with OBL dead. Posters all over the place. It'll be TV for months....and if a single American is killed because of that, especially in the military. I don't want that to be on the release of a photo.

He's dead. If he wasn't, we'll see some fresh videos soon.

[Stadium-Armory]

Seriously, is the White House just doing this on purpose to f with people like me?

I listened to the interview and one thing that's missing here is when Panetta pointed out that he was in a situation room in Langley, and others (including the President) were in the White House situation room. He also indicated that the white house situation room had a "real time flow of intelligence" that he didn't have. He didn't say specifically that "they had video and I didn't", but that was my take away from his carefully chosen words.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Seriously, is the White House just doing this on purpose to f with people like me?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/8493391/Osama-bin-Laden-dead-Blackout-during-raid-on-bin-Laden-compound.html

Link for rest

I have a feeling that is just bad reporting.

I've talked to some dudes who know things. What they were watching in the situation room was almost certainly NOT the helmet feeds as those don't have transmitters. That information is downloaded later. What they were watching was a feed from a drone or satellite or some kind of eye in the sky. So, there probably was a blackout period where dudes were inside.

[@DCGoldPants]

I don't have to prove anything. I wasn't the one who told the world that Bin Laden was killed. They need to prove it.

I'm pretty sure they could prove it to you, then cure cancer and you'd still find fault with them. This brought out the people who were going to hate Obama regardless of anything...and the people that love him regardless. The people in the middle probably can understand the WHY and I'm guessing the polls will show that.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I don't have to prove anything. I wasn't the one who told the world that Bin Laden was killed. They need to prove it.

How do they do that?

By the way, those were three complete sentences that flowed logically from one another. Nicely done, sir.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Here's your "low-observable" copter:

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2011/05/army-mission-helocopter-was-secret-stealth-black-hawk-050411/

That's so badass. Thanks man.

I guess the Army was flying them then?

[Guest Spearfeather]

I think what he's saying is that he wanted a photo that could be blown up poster-sized and used and exploited by every Western hating fanatic to make it easier to martyr Bin Laden. I'm pretty sure that's what he's saying anyway.

Think about how that photo gets used and by whom. Sure, some of us would like to spit on his grave, kick his corpse, or sneer at the photo of him lying dead and impotent, but others would take it and they would make it their symbol of heroic sacrifice and ultimate courage.

But, are these not the same people who will also be encouraged because they have seen no " proof " of their leaders demise?

[SkinsHokieFan]

I have a feeling that is just bad reporting.

I've talked to some dudes who know things. What they were watching in the situation room was almost certainly NOT the helmet feeds as those don't have transmitters. That information is downloaded later. What they were watching was a feed from a drone or satellite or some kind of eye in the sky. So' date=' there probably was a blackout period where dudes were inside.[/quote']

As you said yesterday, the admin just needs to stop with all the details coming out. Its 1) a bit much and 2) lots of changes from the original story.

Makes things not smell good at all in what should be an iron clad slam dunk victory for the White House. By far the gutsiest decision by a President since the Cuban missile crisis

[Burgold]

I don't have to prove anything. I wasn't the one who told the world that Bin Laden was killed. They need to prove it.

Dude seriously :doh:

If Bin Laden was not killed how quickly do you think video tape would have surfaced to make the U.S. look like a bunch of idiots with eggs on their face.

---------- Post added May-4th-2011 at 07:09 PM ----------

But, are these not the same people who will also be encouraged because they have seen no " proof " of their leaders demise?

There is no way to completely prevent Bin Laden's martyrdom with some of the crazies... but you can try to limit it. You can avoid giving them fuel. More, as I just stated above... if Bin Laden wasn't just killed... there would be a tape out there with Osama laughing at the U.S. and making us look like a bunch of fools right now.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20059801-503544.html

Sarah Palin on Wednesday called on President Obama to stop "*****-footing around" and release post-mortem images of Osama bin Laden.

In a Tweet posted shortly after the president announced he would not be releasing the images, Palin chided him for his decision: "Show photo as warning to others seeking America's destruction. No *****-footing around, no politicking, no drama;it's part of the mission," she wrote.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Is it just me or are Americans (some of us) questioning whether he's dead or not waaaay more than any other people in the world? Including Arabs and probably--from what I can tell--Pakistani's?

Since when did we become the nutjobs of the world?

[SkinsHokieFan]

Is it just me or are Americans (some of us) questioning whether he's dead or not waaaay more than any other people in the world? Including Arabs and probably--from what I can tell--Pakistani's?

Since when did we become the nutjobs of the world?

Trust me, there are PLENTY of Pakistani's over there questioning the whole thing.

Many believe it was a CIA "drama"

This is what I know for a fact: President Obama had intel given to him and ordered him killed. A few hours later his body is in the sea.

What happened in between there I don't think anybody will know for a few decades. Its fascinating yet frustrating at the same time

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

What he should do now is 'leak' the photos so he can claim ignorance to it

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

What happened in between there I don't think anybody will know for a few decades. Its fascinating yet frustrating at the same time

I think I'm just surprised at the lack of questioning from the Arab world, contrasted with the absolute madness coming from some here in the U.S..

100% on that last part. There is just so much to this story. There's so much I want to know. It's killing me.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

As you said yesterday, the admin just needs to stop with all the details coming out. Its 1) a bit much and 2) lots of changes from the original story.

Makes things not smell good at all in what should be an iron clad slam dunk victory for the White House. By far the gutsiest decision by a President since the Cuban missile crisis

I read a great book on the Cuban Missle Crisis last year that literally took you hour by hour through the crisis. What was fascinating was that no matter how well the Kennedys handled it (and they were brilliant) nor how badly Khrushchev wanted a way out of it (he wanted the missles in place and a full treaty with Cuba before the US found out and panicked when caught), the danger was always that someone else would do something stupid and start a war. Cuba shot down a U2 without notifiying Khrushchev which caused him to freak out. Another U2 wandered deep into Russian airspace and nearly ran out of fuel because of pilot error. A Soviet submarine made the longest trip in the history of the Russian Navy, was trapped by some US ships, and it's captain nearly gave the order to attack with nuclear weapons due to stress, fear, and exhaustion. Soviet commanders had the authorization to make their own decisions, which is fine when you have a few bullets and really really really dangerous when you have atomic weapons.

---------- Post added May-4th-2011 at 06:17 PM ----------

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20059801-503544.html

Sarah Palin will run the White House the way a pissed off soccer mom runs the PTA. If she thinks that Nancy Pelosi did not bring enough cookies to the bake sale, it will be on like Donkey Kong.