DDP: Approx 8 sections of seating removed in upper deck endzone - more removed as of 2012 DDP, LL Endzone in 2013

[hail2skins]

Can you explain this to me in any more detail? Because when I see the picture I see 410 (13-14) why does that appear as if 13 stands behind 14. I purchased 10 tickets in Row 11 by the way.

I read it as the current standing room row is where rows 13-14 of seats used to be, and of course when that was the case, row 13 of seats was in front of row 14 of seats.

Earlier in the thread someone mentioned that they had only seen "odd numbered rows" being sold for the SRO uppers, and I hope that's the case. To me, having two people stand in the same "seat" in front of/behind each other in the same SRO row would defeat the purpose of a tiered SRO area, so I'm still not sure what the intention is. I would've numbered the SRO rows differently (SR1, SR2, etc) to alleviate confusion. However, like S&S said, I doubt the areas will wind up being full enough for this to be an issue.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Not a fan of the look. I don't mind removing the seats just wish the end result looked nicer and was a greater benefit to the fans.

I agree....not really sure why they would do this....

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I agree....not really sure why they would do this....

Yeah...I completely understand why Snyder would want to make $29 per "seat" if he can. But if they were going to remove these seats, I would have preferred to see some sort of party deck where it resembled the "standing room only" area at Camden Yards. Just an area to wander around, interact with other fans, and catch the game.

Without that, it would have been cool to just take fans out of that section completely and fix it up some. Either a huge bar or some Redskin-themed something...like "The Reservation". The Bucs have a big-ass pirate ship to adorn their stadium. If we can't fill those seats (and I'm not criticizing if we can't since football is a TV sport), then just make that section look cool!

[mojo]

I had a completely different idea of how these would look. I was expecting one big section with standing room and a couple bars. More like a pavilion than rows of standing spots. Oh well...if it helps more people afford to go to games and helps avoid blackouts, that's fine I guess.

Exactly. I was thinking a large flat area with bars and several big screens to watch the game (if you weren't one of the lucky few to get an actual view of the game) At $29 a game, I could deal with watching the game on a HD big screen but still having the atmosphere of being in the stadium with 80,000 fans. Similar to the deck areas in Cowboys stadium.

I'm not sure what they accomplished with this set up.

[DC9]

Yeah...I completely understand why Snyder would want to make $29 per "seat" if he can. But if they were going to remove these seats, I would have preferred to see some sort of party deck where it resembled the "standing room only" area at Camden Yards. Just an area to wander around, interact with other fans, and catch the game.

Without that, it would have been cool to just take fans out of that section completely and fix it up some. Either a huge bar or some Redskin-themed something...like "The Reservation". The Bucs have a big-ass pirate ship to adorn their stadium. If we can't fill those seats (and I'm not criticizing if we can't since football is a TV sport), then just make that section look cool!

It's hard to work something like that in to a pre-completed structure. Also, the "standing room only" at Camden Yards is horrible if you actually want to watch the game.... unless you are in the first line of people you can't see crap.

[WellsHTTR]

Not sure what all the fuss is about. We all know that the club is having trouble putting butts in seats. That drives the price down, which makes it easier for opposing fans to buy up tickets and make noise throughout the stadium. Sure, it sucks that decreasing the number of seats drives the average per-seat price up. But that's business.

The SRO rows are meant to do two things: 1) For low-attendance games, making the stadium look less empty, and 2) For high-attendance games, creating some overflow space that will concentrate more of the opposing (and therefore more price-sensitive) fans away from the action. They're not really meant to do anything else. And keep in mind that having a true "party deck" would probably require structural changes to the stadium that would take too much time to complete and wouldn't be worth the cost.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

It's hard to work something like that in to a pre-completed structure. Also, the "standing room only" at Camden Yards is horrible if you actually want to watch the game.... unless you are in the first line of people you can't see crap.

Well, all I mean is that I expected more of an open surface that people could walk around in. Maybe with some sort of attractions or displays and a bar or two. I just think something like Camden's standing room only or Nats Park's center field bar would have been better than rows of places to stand and not move. Outside of the price, that sounds horrible.

I also get that you couldn't build a big tee-pee or something. But you could put things up and give it a catchy name, etc.

[scruffylookin]

There is little to no enjoyment going to a game at the stadium as is, I can't imagine going to one and watch it in one of these sections. I doubt you could pay me to go and stand for 4 hours after battling traffic, obscene prices for concessions, swarmed with ads and dealing with drunk morons. Then after all that, try and get the hell home in under 2 hours.

No thanks, I'll continue to stay home.

[DC9]

Well, all I mean is that I expected more of an open surface that people could walk around in. Maybe with some sort of attractions or displays and a bar or two. I just think something like Camden's standing room only or Nats Park's center field bar would have been better than rows of places to stand and not move. Outside of the price, that sounds horrible.

I also get that you couldn't build a big tee-pee or something. But you could put things up and give it a catchy name, etc.

Oh yeah, that definitely would've been much cooler and appealing. I think we all thought something much cooler was going to happen than what we were left with at the end. I am all for the smaller crowd size, but some kind of "Five Time World Champions" display would've been pretty cool... along with a bar at the base of the party decks for easy access! ; )

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Yeah...I completely understand why Snyder would want to make $29 per "seat" if he can. But if they were going to remove these seats, I would have preferred to see some sort of party deck where it resembled the "standing room only" area at Camden Yards. Just an area to wander around, interact with other fans, and catch the game.

Without that, it would have been cool to just take fans out of that section completely and fix it up some. Either a huge bar or some Redskin-themed something...like "The Reservation". The Bucs have a big-ass pirate ship to adorn their stadium. If we can't fill those seats (and I'm not criticizing if we can't since football is a TV sport), then just make that section look cool!

Thats what i was thinking also. So he takes the seats out but yet you still have to stand in just about the same area....idk..

[Riggo#44]

There is little to no enjoyment going to a game at the stadium as is, I can't imagine going to one and watch it in one of these sections. I doubt you could pay me to go and stand for 4 hours after battling traffic, obscene prices for concessions, swarmed with ads and dealing with drunk morons. Then after all that, try and get the hell home in under 2 hours.

No thanks, I'll continue to stay home.

I'm with you -- as are a lot of people apparently. Fed Ex sucks, everything about it just sucks. I can't think of a single reason to go to the game rather than watching on TV in the comfort of my living room...

[pjfootballer]

That club level just looks horrible with the patchwork of gold and burgundy seats.

Have to say I am disappointed in what the party deck became. Sure had a totally different idea when it first leaked out. Really nothing more than a way for Dan Snyder to remove seats and avoid empty seats and blackouts. I had also hoped they would put up some kind of banners to hide the stadium skeleton. Maybe that will still happen.....

I thought it would be a huge concourse looking thing, like the right field wall in Camden Yards.

[SonnyandSam]

I'm with you -- as are a lot of people apparently. Fed Ex sucks, everything about it just sucks. I can't think of a single reason to go to the game rather than watching on TV in the comfort of my living room...

To each his own. But then you and scruffylookin must not enjoy live action sports. I enjoy the tailgating, the atmosphere, and the game. A lot of us have a great time. IF you don't like going to FedEx then you don't like going to any NFL stadium.....because it is basically the same at every park....expensive tickets, expensive beer, expensive and mediocre food, expensive parking, and long lines to get in and to leave the stadium area. Yeah, some stadiums do some things differently and better...not denying that. The real difference is the product on the field, and the Redskins have not been very good. THAT is and should be the primary reason one attends the game. IMHO, watching from home does not come close to watching the game at the stadium.

BTW, I drive home after the game in under three hours....and I live near Harrisburg, PA. One just needs to plan their exit strategy and many can avoid much of the traffic. But then traffic is an issue at every football stadium.

[pjfootballer]

The "party decks" are an absolute joke. What kind of "party" has no chairs, and assigned seats? Making each level two assigned rows - with the back row having a view completely obstructed by the guy standing in front of you - was a moronic idea that is hard to comprehend.

These should have been completely general admission areas. Probably will end up being that way once enough pissed off ticket buyers complain - kind of like how the "cave" seats in the 200 level started out as full price tickets with no indications of obstruction.

Agree. And how many people are going to be "stuffed" in there? I bet it gets over crowded

I had a completely different idea of how these would look. I was expecting one big section with standing room and a couple bars. More like a pavilion than rows of standing spots. Oh well...if it helps more people afford to go to games and helps avoid blackouts, that's fine I guess.

You had my same vision.

[Rocky52Mc]

I read it as the current standing room row is where rows 13-14 of seats used to be, and of course when that was the case, row 13 of seats was in front of row 14 of seats.

Earlier in the thread someone mentioned that they had only seen "odd numbered rows" being sold for the SRO uppers, and I hope that's the case. To me, having two people stand in the same "seat" in front of/behind each other in the same SRO row would defeat the purpose of a tiered SRO area, so I'm still not sure what the intention is. I would've numbered the SRO rows differently (SR1, SR2, etc) to alleviate confusion. However, like S&S said, I doubt the areas will wind up being full enough for this to be an issue.

Dear God I hope not. Otherwise I'm going to have to watch the game from inside the stadium. There's no way in hell I'm standing behind someone watching them eat food and spill beer all over themselves.

And I feel bad for anyone behind me because I'm 6'5

[Riggo#44]

To each his own. But then you and scruffylookin must not enjoy live action sports. I enjoy the tailgating, the atmosphere, and the game. A lot of us have a great time. IF you don't like going to FedEx then you don't like going to any NFL stadium.....because it is basically the same at every park....expensive tickets, expensive beer, expensive and mediocre food, expensive parking, and long lines to get in and to leave the stadium area. Yeah, some stadiums do some things differently and better...not denying that. The real difference is the product on the field, and the Redskins have not been very good. THAT is and should be the primary reason one attends the game. IMHO, watching from home does not come close to watching the game at the stadium.

I go to a lot of Nats games -- love that stadium. I get excited every time I go. I even loved going when they had back-to-back 100-loss seasons. FedEx does nothing for me...at all.

BTW, I drive home after the game in under three hours....and I live near Harrisburg, PA. One just needs to plan their exit strategy and many can avoid much of the traffic. But then traffic is an issue at every football stadium.

It has more to do with the bland atmosphere than it does anything else.

[E33Green]

I go to a lot of Nats games -- love that stadium. I get excited every time I go. I even loved going when they had back-to-back 100-loss seasons. FedEx does nothing for me...at all.

It has more to do with the bland atmosphere than it does anything else.

Fair enough, but for the true (obsessed) football fan there is no substitute to watching a live game. There is a reason the game film that NFL coaches watch is filmed from the endzone rather than the sideline; it is the only way to see how effectively the linemen are working at clearing their lanes. Good luck watching the battles in the secondary unfold on TV, the networks have decided that the only thing that matters is what happens within 5 yards either way of the LOS.

Maybe I'm just an old fashioned football nerd, but I hate watching the games on TV. Of course the more casual fan will prefer to watch it on his or her HDTV with their fantasy stats at the ready, but a true football fan would shiver at the notion.

[Riggo#44]

true (obsessed) football fan there is no substitute to watching a live game.

Maybe I'm just an old fashioned football nerd, but I hate watching the games on TV. Of course the more casual fan will prefer to watch it on his or her HDTV with their fantasy stats at the ready, but a true football fan would shiver at the notion.

yeah, I'm a "casual" fan

There is nothing that irritates me more than the term "true fan" and this arbitrary you-don't-do-what-I-do-so-you're-not-a-true-fan garbage. I am going to stop there before I go on a rant that is likely to get me banned...

[martytheman]

I go to a lot of Nats games -- love that stadium. I get excited every time I go. I even loved going when they had back-to-back 100-loss seasons. FedEx does nothing for me...at all.

It has more to do with the bland atmosphere than it does anything else.

Uhh maybe because it was built in 2008?? it's a brand freakin new modern stadium.

YOU could help pay for a new fedex (taxes), but you'd probably complain about that too.

Nothing makes you people happy.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Maybe I'm just an old fashioned football nerd, but I hate watching the games on TV. Of course the more casual fan will prefer to watch it on his or her HDTV with their fantasy stats at the ready, but a true football fan would shiver at the notion.

Wow...watch out for a nose bleed up there on Mt. Condescension! Could it be possible, Dr. Football, that certain fans just prefer watching games differently? I love everything about football and really can't get enough of it. I watch the NFL Replay games of any match up when they're on. So, I can't really accept your claim that one can only be a true football fan if he insists on being at the stadium.

[E33Green]

Wow...watch out for a nose bleed up there on Mt. Condescension! Could it be possible, Dr. Football, that certain fans just prefer watching games differently? I love everything about football and really can't get enough of it. I watch the NFL Replay games of any match up when they're on. So, I can't really accept your claim that one can only be a true football fan if he insists on being at the stadium.

Haha, my apologies, no condescension intended. Perhaps I was reacting to all the condescending comments in this thread about how "you're a complete idiot if you go to games because the at home experience is so much better."

I definitely agree that certain fans prefer to watch the games differently. The casual fan no doubt prefers the TV coverage with the slick presentation and slow-mo replays of the big hits and flashy moves. However, if you ask anyone who has coached or played the game beyond the high school level they will tell you that there is really only one way to watch a football game from a professional perspective: a wide camera endzone view that is unavailable to the average fan. If you ask any college/NFL player or coach when they last used a TV network broadcast tape to evaluate game film the answer will be "never."

You simply cannot gain an educated understanding of the game (especially the line play) from the TV network perspective, which is why a few (like myself) are sticklers for watching the game live. When I was young, I watched every second of football I could find on TV and thought I knew everything there was to know about the game. It wasn't until my college coach started showing me professional gamefilm that I realized how ignorant I truly was.

---------- Post added July-25th-2012 at 04:05 PM ----------

yeah, I'm a "casual" fan

There is nothing that irritates me more than the term "true fan" and this arbitrary you-don't-do-what-I-do-so-you're-not-a-true-fan garbage. I am going to stop there before I go on a rant that is likely to get me banned...

Apologies again for rubbing some the wrong way, it was sincerely not what I intended. Not questioning anyone's fanhood here. I just wish there was some way I could show all of you an example of the game tape that NFL coaches actually use to evaluate film. When you compare it to a FOX or CBS broadcast, you will see all the critical intricacies that are missed and the reasons why NFL coaches do not use the TV broadcasts. I stand by my opinion that if you cannot be a true student of the game simply by watching the games on TV and surfing the web. You really need to watch the games live or get access to the aforementioned film that NFL coaches use.

EDIT: Here is what I am talking about, the "All 22" Gamefilm: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82a0b2d8/article/nfl-opens-pandoras-box-by-offering-all22-tape-to-public

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I see your point. If my main goal was to perform in-game, real-time analysis then I'd probably prefer the overhead or end zone shots. Since entertainment and Redskins wins are my main goals on Sundays, I love the angles and views provided by the networks.

So, in reality, you believe that students of the game might side with you. I don't believe that aligns necessarily with how big a fan you are. It's possible that someone could not even know the difference between a 4-3 and a 3-4 and live and die with every Redskin game. On the other hand, there could be someone who knows every detail of every defensive alignment but doesn't care all that much who wins or loses any given game.

[pjfootballer]

I don't want to break down film. I can get somewhat of an idea of how a play develops and understand concepts without the endzone view. I don't get paid to watch film, so why do I want to watch coaches film? I just want to watch the game, whether it be on TV or at the stadium. I do both. My mom has season tickets and I go to 3 or 4 games a year, depending on how much time off I have. I watch them on TV for the rest of the games, home and away. I like the slick replays. That way I can see what just happened if I need a call explained. If you miss a play at the stadium, you're out of luck.

E33Green, sounds like even though you are a Redskins fan, you are more of a fan of "football" more than anything else. I don't care how the team got the touchdown, as long as they score. I mean, I can appreciate watching a well executed play (blocks, QB play action fake), but watching it live, I just want to follow the action.

[E33Green]

I see your point. If my main goal was to perform in-game, real-time analysis then I'd probably prefer the overhead or end zone shots. Since entertainment and Redskins wins are my main goals on Sundays, I love the angles and views provided by the networks.

So, in reality, you believe that students of the game might side with you. I don't believe that aligns necessarily with how big a fan you are. It's possible that someone could not even know the difference between a 4-3 and a 3-4 and live and die with every Redskin game. On the other hand, there could be someone who knows every detail of every defensive alignment but doesn't care all that much who wins or loses any given game.

I don't want to break down film. I can get somewhat of an idea of how a play develops and understand concepts without the endzone view. I don't get paid to watch film, so why do I want to watch coaches film? I just want to watch the game, whether it be on TV or at the stadium. I do both. My mom has season tickets and I go to 3 or 4 games a year, depending on how much time off I have. I watch them on TV for the rest of the games, home and away. I like the slick replays. That way I can see what just happened if I need a call explained. If you miss a play at the stadium, you're out of luck.

Totally agree, you guys nailed it! I have trouble explaining it to the casual fan. I just get pissed at all the twitter/facebook/message board "coaches" who think that they are football experts because they have NFL Sunday ticket and won their fantasy league last year. When you try and talk blocking technique or mention "All 22" gamefilm to these "experts" they simply respond with a blank stare.

[SonnyandSam]

I go to a lot of Nats games -- love that stadium. I get excited every time I go. I even loved going when they had back-to-back 100-loss seasons. FedEx does nothing for me...at all.

It has more to do with the bland atmosphere than it does anything else.

That's because the Nats are a young and upcoming team who are winning a lot more than they are losing. I've always said that if the Skins are winning and playoff bound, FedEx Field becomes a lot more fun and attractive. What happens on the field makes the positive memories. RFK was a dump. But it was a loveable dump because the Redskins won games and Super Bowls.