TD_washingtonredskins Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Marty I thought for sure would end up a GM in the NFL. Guess not. He's got plenty of time for that considering he's probably going to coach in the UFL for one season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 A close second is hiring Zorn as the OC before finding a head coach to replace Gibbs. I put a lot of the problems of that coaching search square on Gibbs and the way he decided to exit. Even then, that goes back to Snyder giving the head job to Gibbs, which when he resigned left a big power vaccumn which the team had to scramble to fill. It is the reason why you do need that executive below the owner who's job is to keep an eye on such things. There isn't going to be any owner out there who can do a proper job of keeping an eye on the league for proper candidates for head coaching prospects. George Allen. He wasn't able to win the big one and he is marblized in this town as being a great coach. Ah, but George Allen actually did go to a SB, which is more than what Marty did in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralWaugh Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Also Snyder was there with doctor info and his plane when someone in Marty's family had cancer. Not sure, think it might have been his wife. That is really what brought them together again I think. It was several years after Marty had left Skins when discovered his son, Brian (now OC with Jets) had cancer. Marty turned to Dan and Dan stepped up, as he has many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyandSam Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 We still would be better off today if Marty had not been fired after one season. He would have set the football operations straight just as Joe Gibbs did. And maybe if Gibbs had had something to work with, he might have been more successful. Marty catches a lot of crap for never having won the big game or getting there; but he had some incredibly bad luck or poor play from players that caused it. It wasn't his coaching. I find it interesting that for all the crap that fans and media throw at Snyder, respected coaches like Shottenheimer and Gibbs have made it clear that Snyder was not the problem; Of course, they never point the finger directly at V but they have hinted around at it. If only Snyder had never met V....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I suppose...but was there an option of hiring Marty without giving him full control? If not, the "mistake" becomes much more complicated as I don't remember who else was on our radar in 2001. As straightforward as we can get (including things that did happen), I think firing Marty was Snyder's biggest mistake so far. A close second is hiring Zorn as the OC before finding a head coach to replace Gibbs. Even hiring Spurrier only looks horrible in retrospect...many teams were after him and some thought he'd succeed at the NFL level. During the 0-5 run, it was reported that Dan went to see Spurrier (earlier reports had also suggested was Dan's real choice after Turner got fired). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I find it interesting that for all the crap that fans and media throw at Snyder, respected coaches like Shottenheimer and Gibbs have made it clear that Snyder was not the problem; Of course, they never point the finger directly at V but they have hinted around at it. If only Snyder had never met V....... Gibbs never had anything but unwavering support for Vinny, even recommending his promotion. I don't know if he actually believed it, but I wouldn't think that Vinny would have stuck around as long as he did if Gibbs was unhappy with his work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Was Schotty ever a GM elsewhere? Because it's not fair to label him a poor GM with only one year as a sample. Not to mention he got us out of cap hell immediately. And I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Cerrato was in Snyder's hear the whole time Marty was coach. You know who really got screwed? Spurrier. He probably would have been a disaster anyway, but Snyder promised him a first class GM when he offered him the job. Spurrier apparently thought he was getting Ron Wolf. Instead he got Cerrato. But you know, what's done is done. I don't think we'll ever see Cerrato in the NFL again. Even Snyder knows the fans wouldn't tolerate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
authentic Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I'm not convinced Marty was going to be the solution, considering that he has failed many times to go the last mile. Marty made a lot of mistakes in the GM part of his job, and don't think it was a smart decision in general to give the head coach so much power. Unfortunately, it is a mistake Snyder continues to do. I guess things are a bit better with Allen up there as well, but I do not think that head coaches take the long view as much as they should. Coaches are concened about having a winning team for the upcomming season. I understand your point. However, when looking at his track record, we would have been in MUCH better shape as a franchise at this point, had he stayed. IMO, we should have went from Marty straight to Shanny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Back in November I started a thread about meeting Marty. His grandson was playing pee wee football against my great-nephew. My newphew's team is the Harrisburg Cowboys (Boooo the name) and his grandson was the...get this Mallard Creek Chargers. http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?338766-I-met-Marty-Schottenheimer-tonight-at-my-Nephews-Pee-Wee-League-Game Anyway, I got to talk to him for about 10 minutes and he unequivlacally said to me without studdering, that Dan Snyder wants to win so bad. He said Dan's problem is he surrounds himself with the wrong people (meaning Cerrato). He didn't actually come out and say, but when I said, "Vinny?" he just gave me that "yeah" look. He also said that we are in good hands with Bruce and Mike (he used their first names) and told us fans to be patient, that they WILL turn it around. He said he faced Shanahan and Allen's teams several time over the years and he was sure Mike would get us winning again. He almost couldn't stop talking about how passionate Snyder is about the Redskins and how incompetant the people (Vinny we can assume) have been around him. Giving him the wrong advice and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Full Monty Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I understand your point. However, when looking at his track record, we would have been in MUCH better shape as a franchise at this point, had he stayed. IMO, we should have went from Marty straight to Shanny. Amen. Marty probably wouldn't have gotten into the business of trading draft picks away like nickels and dimes. As a defensive minded coach who loves the running game, he would've likely actually tried to get depth on the trenches. That one year he had, we were working with Bum Knees Cory Raymer and a combination of Dave Zott (sp?) and Ben Coleman as guards..gimme a break, somehow, Davis still had 1300+ yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Was Schotty ever a GM elsewhere? Because it's not fair to label him a poor GM with only one year as a sample. Not to mention he got us out of cap hell immediately. No. In fact, part of the reason why Marty lost his job in San Diego was because he fought with AJ Smith over personnel. I understand your point. However, when looking at his track record, we would have been in MUCH better shape as a franchise at this point, had he stayed. IMO, we should have went from Marty straight to Shanny. Well, most teams are going to be better off if they have more consistancy than having 4 head coaches in 9 years. But there is no guarantee that Marty would have left this team in any better shape than Gibbs did. Problem is, we don't have much data to go on other than "he cleaned house". (Which to be honest, was likely to happen no matter who was in charge considering that many of the signings in 2000 were a last ditch effort to get Norv over the top.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
authentic Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Well, most teams are going to be better off if they have more consistancy than having 4 head coaches in 9 years. But there is no guarantee that Marty would have left this team in any better shape than Gibbs did. Problem is, we don't have much data to go on other than "he cleaned house". (Which to be honest, was likely to happen no matter who was in charge considering that many of the signings in 2000 were a last ditch effort to get Norv over the top.) I'm not guaranteeing that we would have been in better shape, who really knows. But looking at Marty's track record with Cleveland, KC, and SD, he's had some level of sustained success even if he's known as a "Playoff Choker". But let me ask you this, do you think that he would have traded so many old, over valued players? Do you think he would have traded Champ and a 2nd round pick for a running back in CP? Do you think he would have allowed the franchise to be hamstrung by signing enormous contracts for washed up vets? I think not. Look i love Gibbs, but i think the direction that Marty was trying to go, would have put us in a position similar to where San Diego is now. And thats MUCH better than where we've been for the better part of the last 11 seasons. ---------- Post added March-24th-2011 at 12:48 PM ---------- Back in November I started a thread about meeting Marty. His grandson was playing pee wee football against my great-nephew. My newphew's team is the Harrisburg Cowboys (Boooo the name) and his grandson was the...get this Mallard Creek Chargers.. Yeah, i remember that thread. Thanks for revisiting that experience. Good stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECU-ALUM Posted March 24, 2011 Author Share Posted March 24, 2011 Was Schotty ever a GM elsewhere? Because it's not fair to label him a poor GM with only one year as a sample. Not to mention he got us out of cap hell immediately.And I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Cerrato was in Snyder's hear the whole time Marty was coach. You know who really got screwed? Spurrier. He probably would have been a disaster anyway, but Snyder promised him a first class GM when he offered him the job. Spurrier apparently thought he was getting Ron Wolf. Instead he got Cerrato. But you know, what's done is done. I don't think we'll ever see Cerrato in the NFL again. Even Snyder knows the fans wouldn't tolerate it. It was supposed to be Bobby Bethard. But at the last minute, when a deal was supposedly agreed upon in principal, Snyder low-balled him and Bethard basically said forget it. As far as Vinny coming back...let's see when Marty let him go no NFL teams came calling for him...when he "resigned" over a year ago...no one called for his services and still hasn't...and when Bill Walsh returned to the 49ers as consultant one of the 1st things he did was fire Vinny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedlamVR Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Back in November I started a thread about meeting Marty. His grandson was playing pee wee football against my great-nephew. My newphew's team is the Harrisburg Cowboys (Boooo the name) and his grandson was the...get this Mallard Creek Chargers. http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?338766-I-met-Marty-Schottenheimer-tonight-at-my-Nephews-Pee-Wee-League-Game Anyway, I got to talk to him for about 10 minutes and he unequivlacally said to me without studdering, that Dan Snyder wants to win so bad. He said Dan's problem is he surrounds himself with the wrong people (meaning Cerrato). He didn't actually come out and say, but when I said, "Vinny?" he just gave me that "yeah" look. He also said that we are in good hands with Bruce and Mike (he used their first names) and told us fans to be patient, that they WILL turn it around. He said he faced Shanahan and Allen's teams several time over the years and he was sure Mike would get us winning again. He almost couldn't stop talking about how passionate Snyder is about the Redskins and how incompetant the people (Vinny we can assume) have been around him. Giving him the wrong advice and such. I do remember that thread and it sounds that the problem runs deeper than just Vinny C from what Shottenhiemer says . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Full Monty Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I do remember that thread and it sounds that the problem runs deeper than just Vinny C from what Shottenhiemer says . . . But Snyder's "learning"!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoRUSupposed2Be Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I do remember that thread and it sounds that the problem runs deeper than just Vinny C from what Shottenhiemer says . . . What else is Schotty saying that would give you this impression? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Bailey Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 The man won with Tony Banks as his starter, and at one point they were 5-5 and breathing down Philly's neck. He was right in that they had a lot of young hungry guys who wanted to win!We can go back and forth for years about what might've happened down the road(I generally agree with alot of 1st round exits or close but no cigars) but what I saw during the season was TEAM starting to gel very nicely. This wasn't a group of hired mercenaries. He got us under the cap and held the players accountable! This is what I recall too. Firing Marty was stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyandSam Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Gibbs never had anything but unwavering support for Vinny, even recommending his promotion. I don't know if he actually believed it, but I wouldn't think that Vinny would have stuck around as long as he did if Gibbs was unhappy with his work. I always felt Gibbs defense of Vinnie was much weaker than his defense of Snyder. We all know Joe Gibbs never said anything bad about anyone publicly. You always had to read between the lines and what he DIDN'T say to figure out how he really felt. Besides, I would not be surprised if Vinnie was on his best ass kissing behavior around the legend....especially the way Danny felt about Joe Gibbs. ---------- Post added March-24th-2011 at 07:29 PM ---------- Gibbs never had anything but unwavering support for Vinny, even recommending his promotion. I don't know if he actually believed it, but I wouldn't think that Vinny would have stuck around as long as he did if Gibbs was unhappy with his work. I always felt Gibbs defense of Vinnie was much weaker than his defense of Snyder. We all know Joe Gibbs never said anything bad about anyone publicly. You always had to read between the lines and what he DIDN'T say to figure out how he really felt. Besides, I would not be surprised if Vinnie was on his best ass kissing behavior around the legend....especially the way Danny felt about Joe Gibbs. Hey MODS -- these freakin' double posts since the upgrade/downgrade are startin' to piss me off Starting here, I ain't editing them out no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 This is what I recall too. Firing Marty was stupid.For what it was worth, I was fooled at the time.There were rumors that Schotty had lost the locker room. Even though they had a great run the last half of the season. Snyder was gonna win a bidding war with every other NFL team with a shaky coach or vacancy, for Spurrier who was supposed to be the next great coach in the NFL. He had excelled in the USFL, at Duke, and the SEC, so I was happy, even though I felt sorry for Marty. Though the 2000 season was a major disappointment, I was still optimistic even after a "meh" 2001 season. Snyder would spend whatever it took to bring in the best coaches, the best equipment (like heated benches for the sidelines), the best players, and everything would work out in the end. Boy, was I wrong. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paloosa Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I agree that Marty got a bad deal here and Cerrato was the real problem with that because Snyder never kept him out of his ear. It was kind of funny how quickly Cerrato was rehired after the Marty firing. So Dan Snyder let his friendship with Cerrato cloud his judgement. Now don't get me wrong, I am not a big Marty fan because of his past failures but he is a lot better than Norv Turner, Steve Spurrier or Jim Zorn. What we need is to keep the current coaching staff in tact for a few years with key players that will bear the fruits of hard work and a winning way. Shanahan alone or Allen alone can't make that happen but together they can create that winning team. Dan Snyder needs to let Cerrato go and let him flop in the wind because if he allows Cerrato influence him in any decisions regarding this team then he is setting himself up for failure again. I think Dan is smart enough to realize that business is business and friendships sometimes take a back seat to business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rk3025 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Thought Cerrato was still working for Snyder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 It's funny (and fun) looking back and trying to project what might have been with Marty. Unless we won championships, we'd be thinking that we held onto Marty for too long. That's just the way it goes...you always assume the best when it comes to the path you didn't take. Had we kept Marty for 6 years, won one or two division titles, and lost in the first or second round of the playoffs each time we made it, we'd be thinking that Spurrier or Gibbs would have been the guy to put us over the top. Since we saw what Spurrier and Gibbs were able to do, we look back and just assume Marty would have been better. No one looks back at 2002 and assumes that, if Marty had returned, we'd have gone 6-10. The same goes for 2008. Everyone tends to assume that a Gibbs-led team (or a team led by Gregg Williams) would have probably returned to the playoffs. No one considers that 8-8 is probably better than we would have accomplished with Gibbs/Williams since the pattern for Gibbs was bad year-good year-bad year-good year...oh well, no point really, it just interests me when it comes to alternate realities! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icbmayday Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Marty wasn't the solution but we would have been much better off with him then the coaches after him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbws Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I believe the feelings have returned since he was let go. First of all, I think they mutually agreed to disagree when he was fired. Secondly, I think Marty has had a decade to get over it and move on. When Marty signed with the Chargers, he purposely took less than a market value salary, just so Dan would have to make up the difference. You don't do that to someone you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I always felt Gibbs defense of Vinnie was much weaker than his defense of Snyder. We all know Joe Gibbs never said anything bad about anyone publicly. You always had to read between the lines and what he DIDN'T say to figure out how he really felt. Besides, I would not be surprised if Vinnie was on his best ass kissing behavior around the legend....especially the way Danny felt about Joe Gibbs. If Gibbs felt that Vinny was doing a poor job, I wouldn't expect him to have Vinny keep his job those 4 years or to actually recommend him for the promotion. It is the latter that tells me that Gibbs felt he was a good personnel man. Considering that there has been few changes in the personnel staff since Vinny was fired kinda backs that up. No one is saying that Vinny didn't have other problems, including being unsuited to running the whole show, but it seems that just being a personnel guy and running a personnel department, he's not quite the incompetent boob that many want to paint him. ---------- Post added March-25th-2011 at 12:37 PM ---------- When Marty signed with the Chargers, he purposely took less than a market value salary, just so Dan would have to make up the difference. You don't do that to someone you like. Probably just business, since other teams know that he's getting paid. Also, considering he's been out of work since he got fired from the Chargers, that there might not have been a huge demand for his services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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