HP: Anthony Maschek, Wounded War Vet, Heckled At Columbia University ROTC Hearing

[LaRonDontLikeUgly]

While I don't agree with the booing or "the cat calls" as the man on the microphone said, I will say that Anthony Maschek should have either prepared a better speech or taken a very different approach.

He was very condescending/negative in his remarks towards the crowd and any PR/Advertising/Marketing Firm will tell you-- that's not how you sell an idea to a potential customer.

Be positive! Be informative! Crack a joke or two, and let those dumbass kids in the crowd know that you aren't some mindless killing machine...

[Sticksboi05]

ATL - go sign up for the Army this week. Put your life on the line for this board and the rest of your country. Shouldn't be so hard as you make it out to be no big thing at all.

[sacase]

This Alex Maschek guy...the presentation seemed off to me. The "other parts of the country are plotting to kill you" line was weird. That is another thing that bothers me when people praise the military for protecting us from terrorists attacks. That is cool and all, but what about American on American crime that happen everyday. 9/11 this, 9/11 that...are we holding mass memorials for everyone that was murdered in Washington, DC last year? Another thing that annoys me is calling these men heros and praising them. Its like going to the military automatically make you some type of great person. You have all these men in the military and i'm supposed to believe they are all saints.

Back to the ROTC presentation, I think the people were booing what he had to say instead of actually booing him. Only reason you guys think its despicable is because he is a handicap person. Why would the military send him him anyway? I'll take a look at him and say "I don't want to end up like that". You go defend country and then come back crippled, but get called a hero and honored while your friends go on to live a happy legs and 4 limbs and a functioning brain...nah its not worth it.

Pathetic. Thankfully there are people like him who are willing to serve the country and make sacrifices for it. This is what is wrong with the current generation.

[Destino]

I wouldn't even expect you to say that. Come on, man.

I'm pulling punches out of respect for the soldier and because I don't want this thread to get ugly. There are some pretty nasty examples of war vets being treated like **** when they decide to step into politics at any level. Frankly I suspect a lot of hypocrisy in this thread. My gut tells me that had this guy decided to run on a democratic or republican ticket and opposed THEIR PERSONAL VIEWS people would be singing one hell of a different tune. It's easy to say this case is different when frankly none of us care about the issue in question I don't see anyone here disagreeing with ROTC on college campuses. Clearly this issue is a big deal in Columbia University (which frankly I find ridiculous, just let ROTC on campus already!)

This is why I said if you don't like this crap the only way forward is to demand people act like adults and respect the setting they find themselves in. Shouting things and acting disrespectful is a poor reflection on yourself as an individual. We accomplish that and THIS doesn't happen. I don't just say this btw, I've met G Gorden Liddy (sp?) and seen several prominent republicans speak in person... despite my disagreeing with them I would be ashamed of myself if I lost my composure.

[No_Pressure]

I don't know if most veterans would classify themselves as heroes. They would say they're just doing their jobs. A lot of them are heroes however, not just because of what they may or may not do for the average American civilian but what they do for each other in difficult times.

Sure its easy to sit around and imagine that a good portion of troops stationed overseas aren't actually fighting or in a whole lot of danger and say "OH HEY THEY'RE NOT HEROES THEY JUST GO OVER THERE FOR 4 MONTHS TO REPAIR HELICOPTERS AND PLAY VOLLYBALL" well yeah some of our veterans do that, you need engineers and supply people to keep the army going, its just that a decent amount of our soldiers actually are in combat fairly often, or if not combat then dangerous situations that could turn into combat at a moment's notice.

Now I don't subscribe to the "they're fighting on my behalf" or "they're fighting for my freedom" belief but the question of what the soldiers are fighting for is quite inconsequential and is the wrong question to ask. If you ask 10 different servicemen you may get 10 different answers, the important thing is that our soldiers from our country have been ordered by a popular vote of our popularly elected government officials to go to another nation and lay their lives on the line. Whether you asked them to do it for you or not is inconsequential as well. The fact is that they're doing it and it isn't something to be taken lightly.

Personally I don't want any of our fine young men out dying in a war. My favorite kind of a military is the kind that doesn't have to do any fighting, where young men don't have to get killed or maimed, and where it just serves as a ready and well trained defense force. I've done plenty of charity bike rides, taken trips to visit newly returned wounded veterans at Walter Reed, and I learned about warfare from a man (my grandfather) who was a wounded combat veteran that saw some of the heaviest fighting the western front had to offer in WW2. I don't know if the men overseas are dying for me, I hope not. I don't know if they're fighting for my freedom or for the American way or for the interests of the world. I separate the war from the men who are sent to fight it. Our combat veterans are typically heroes in some way. Sure some of them are less savory individuals on a personal level than others, but that doesn't change what they do for a living.

[scruffylookin]

I wasn't going to comment on this non story (though no doubt Faux News will dedicate loads of time to it) but I can't help but point out the irony and hypocrisy.

So a handful of students boo and heckle this guy and the usual suspects take the opportunity to bash the entire institution and/or the left. Why is it then we should not paint with the same broad brush the entire military and the right when the slackjawed yokels among them openly enjoy killing and/or feel the fight in the Middle East is a war for Jesus?

Sorry, just because you wear a uniform does not make you a hero. In fact what SOME of these *******s have done while wearing the colors of my country is humiliating.

See you really want to paint with a broad brush?

[NavyDave]

We do not consider ourselves heroes though I do consider liberal anti military types along both coasts something that might put me on vacation so I'll refrain.

I have said years ago that there are more patriotic types behind bars or trying to sneak into the USA via a tire or inner tube than a good portion of Generation Ipod and the 40 something crowd on Team Sniveler.

What I don't understand is why waste $50k to go be apart of the pompous leftwing alleged elite who still foolishly believe that the Progressive agenda is good for the nation and world?

[nuposse87]

We do not consider ourselves heroes though I do consider liberal anti military types along both coasts something that might put me on vacation so I'll refrain.

I have said years ago that there are more patriotic types behind bars or trying to sneak into the USA via a tire or inner tube than a good portion of Generation Ipod and the 40 something crowd on Team Sniveler.

What I don't understand is why waste $50k to go be apart of the pompous leftwing alleged elite who still foolishly believe that the Progressive agenda is good for the nation and world?

So you'd only fight for like minded individuals? (Thats what you seem to be insinuating, correct me if I'm wrong.) Can't say there is much honor in that, but neither is saying that the entire military is deranged or murderous. I hardly think we're the "United" States of America anymore :/

[twa]

So you'd only fight for like minded individuals? (Thats what you seem to be insinuating, correct me if I'm wrong.) Can't say there is much honor in that, but neither is saying that the entire military is deranged or murderous. I hardly think we're the "United" States of America anymore :/

Actually that seems the position of those that oppose ROTC on campus.

bigots

[nuposse87]

Actually that seems the position of those that oppose ROTC on campus.

bigots

I misinterpreted Navydave's final sentence then, I thought he was referring to something along the lines of making a career out of the military and still fighting while liberals were running the show was a bad thing. If there are soldiers with that mindset, I can't say its commendable. But I agree, the guys at columbia aren't really helping the clear lack of unity in this country.

[Dan T.]

I really hate disrespect shown to people speaking at public forums. It's rude and selfish. But listening to the actual audio of Alex Maschek's talk, this incident seems to have been mischaracterized:

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/senate/militaryengagement/20110215clip.mp3

There were a a couple of outbursts from the audience, and those people were quickly admonished by the moderator when the outbursts occured. Judging from the sound of applause at the end, the number of people who called out was a very small subset of the total audience in attendence.

The majority of the audience listened respectfully. Shame on those few rude people who interrupted.

[TradeTheBeal!]

So some of the folks at Columbia weren't buying what the ROTC was selling. A bit of heckling occured and not much else. Let's move forward.

[Chicken Fried]

I wasn't going to comment on this non story (though no doubt Faux News will dedicate loads of time to it) but I can't help but point out the irony and hypocrisy.

So a handful of students boo and heckle this guy and the usual suspects take the opportunity to bash the entire institution and/or the left. Why is it then we should not paint with the same broad brush the entire military and the right when the slackjawed yokels among them openly enjoy killing and/or feel the fight in the Middle East is a war for Jesus?

Sorry, just because you wear a uniform does not make you a hero. In fact what SOME of these *******s have done while wearing the colors of my country is humiliating.

See you really want to paint with a broad brush?

Your two sides of the comparison are so different that your post adds nothing. You cannot compare what happens in war to some stuck up elitists heckling a war vet. :doh:

---------- Post added February-22nd-2011 at 11:03 AM ----------

I'm pulling punches out of respect for the soldier and because I don't want this thread to get ugly. There are some pretty nasty examples of war vets being treated like **** when they decide to step into politics at any level. Frankly I suspect a lot of hypocrisy in this thread. My gut tells me that had this guy decided to run on a democratic or republican ticket and opposed THEIR PERSONAL VIEWS people would be singing one hell of a different tune. It's easy to say this case is different when frankly none of us care about the issue in question I don't see anyone here disagreeing with ROTC on college campuses. Clearly this issue is a big deal in Columbia University (which frankly I find ridiculous, just let ROTC on campus already!)

You can't put the situation in relative terms, "Well if he were running on a Democratic ticket..." The fact is that college students were disrespectful to a war vet. The same thing happened after Vietnam. The fact of the matter is that it happened, and I find it despicable that someone could act in such a way. These are supposedly grown men and women, and they have to "make a statement" by disrespecting any symbol of the military.

[twa]

So some of the folks at Columbia weren't buying what the ROTC was selling. A bit of heckling occured and not much else. Let's move forward.

The folks at Columbia are being bigots and practicing discrimination......backwards bigots that are also intolerant.of differing views and deny equal opportunity

[TradeTheBeal!]

The folks at Columbia are being bigots and practicing discrimination......backwards bigots that are also intolerant.of differing views and deny equal opportunity

Who was discriminated against? What is a "backwards bigot"? What opportunity was denied and who was denied it?

[DjTj]

I really hate disrespect shown to people speaking at public forums. It's rude and selfish. But listening to the actual audio of Alex Maschek's talk, this incident seems to have been mischaracterized:

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/senate/militaryengagement/20110215clip.mp3

There were a a couple of outbursts from the audience, and those people were quickly admonished by the moderator when the outbursts occured. Judging from the sound of applause at the end, the number of people who called out was a very small subset of the total audience in attendence.

The majority of the audience listened respectfully. Shame on those few rude people who interrupted.

Yeah, the whole thing has been blown out of proportion.

The speaker himself is not complaining, and he seems to see the heckling as a small minority.

In a statement that he sent to the media on Monday night, Maschek said he feels no animosity towards Columbia.

“Comments by a small number of individuals at the town hall meeting have not changed my positive experiences at Columbia,” Maschek wrote. “Thus far, my fellow students have been very interested in hearing about my past life and military experiences. Columbia has been attempting to get more veterans to share their experiences here, and the atmosphere here has been supportive despite the actions of a very small minority of the town hall participants.”

http://www.columbiaspectator.com/2011/02/22/students-surprised-worried-national-media-coverage-rotc

[oisn1]

Your two sides of the comparison are so different that your post adds nothing. You cannot compare what happens in war to some stuck up elitists heckling a war vet. :doh:

You can't put the situation in relative terms, "Well if he were running on a Democratic ticket..." The fact is that college students were disrespectful to a war vet. The same thing happened after Vietnam. The fact of the matter is that it happened, and I find it despicable that someone could act in such a way. These are supposedly grown men and women, and they have to "make a statement" by disrespecting any symbol of the military.

You are right, what happens in war and at home is different. I think what scruffy is trying to say is that not all soldiers are heroes, as some have been found guilty of raping and murdering innocents. When you shroud your own military under the veil of being sacred heroes, it blinds us to injustice. In comparison, some college shmoes booing is not important.

I'm not one to criticize the military vets because they are often people who follow orders, regardless of the political intentions and wrongness that our leaders might be prompting. A soldier in the Iraq War was doing what he/she was told and it is hard to say they were wrong to it, in light of the "evidence" presented to them. Still, I believe it is important to remain critical of the military so they are never overused. I don't believe the heckling was necessary for this man, but I don't believe that all soldiers and the military should be above reproach.

[twa]

Who was discriminated against? What is a "backwards bigot"? What opportunity was denied and who was denied it?

The military and NROTC program

[mjah]

What I don't understand is why waste $50k to go be apart of the pompous leftwing alleged elite [blah blah blah]

If THAT's a person's reason to go to college, then I don't understand it either.

Kind of like wasting years of your life because you want to be a part of the rule breaking oversubscribed rightwing macho foreigner-killing gunslinger brigade [blah blah blah]. THAT would be a terrible motivation for joining the armed forces, because 99% of the people serving aren't about that.

Neither little slice represents, through its desires or its actions, the character of its respective larger institution. Both college and military life are about a hell of a lot more than these caricatures would suggest, were one foolish enough to believe in them.

If you're going to Columbia to get a great education and prepare for a successful professional/personal life, that's a great reason and you've picked a great school. If you're going into the military to serve your country and represent the USA respectfully across the world, that's a great reason and you're serving the greatest country there is. Yours.

NavyDave, please estimate -- in your view -- the ratio of people fitting your caricature at Columbia to people with more acceptable intentions at Columbia. I'd put it in the general ballpark of 1:100. I'd estimate the ratio in the military as being roughly the same, with both estimates coming from lots of personal experience with each institution.

If you disagree and think the number is different, then let's hear about it. What are your numbers for each?

[Destino]

You can't put the situation in relative terms, "Well if he were running on a Democratic ticket..." The fact is that college students were disrespectful to a war vet. The same thing happened after Vietnam. The fact of the matter is that it happened, and I find it despicable that someone could act in such a way. These are supposedly grown men and women, and they have to "make a statement" by disrespecting any symbol of the military.

You have to put it in relative terms otherwise you fail to see the point. We're talking about this man's military status because the issue he's talking about doesn't interest us. There is no emotional charge. So the point of interest is a military veteran that was horribly wounded being booed by a college crowd. If that same guy wanted to raise taxes his injured status wouldn't be priority #1 in this thread. Same goes for if he was championing pro-life positions. This isn't about right or left, it's about bad behavior by adults that should know better.

Again the only way we arrive where we want to be is by demanding adults behave when they don't agree with the speaker no matter who it might be (with obvious exceptions for exceptionally horrible people). Otherwise anyone can make an argument for why one person should be booed and another shouldn't.

[Chicken Fried]

You have to put it in relative terms otherwise you fail to see the point. We're talking about this man's military status because the issue he's talking about doesn't interest us. There is no emotional charge. So the point of interest is a military veteran that was horribly wounded being booed by a college crowd. If that same guy wanted to raise taxes his injured status wouldn't be priority #1 in this thread. Same goes for if he was championing pro-life positions. This isn't about right or left, it's about bad behavior by adults that should know better.

Again the only way we arrive where we want to be is by demanding adults behave when they don't agree with the speaker no matter who it might be (with obvious exceptions for exceptionally horrible people). Otherwise anyone can make an argument for why one person should be booed and another shouldn't.

So explain again why it wasn't despicable for them to heckle...if all adults should behave no matter the speaker. Sorry if I'm just being slow today.

---------- Post added February-22nd-2011 at 03:49 PM ----------

You are right, what happens in war and at home is different. I think what scruffy is trying to say is that not all soldiers are heroes, as some have been found guilty of raping and murdering innocents. When you shroud your own military under the veil of being sacred heroes, it blinds us to injustice. In comparison, some college shmoes booing is not important.

Sure. I agree, but I don't see the relevancy considering this speaker hasn't done anything we know of that involved rape, etc. Now the "murdering innocents" is something I have a problem with. There are the occasional psychopaths who will, but there is a gray line on this issue in my opinion. I would not consider most of them murderers. The Blackwater Bloody Sunday or whatever the media calls it had two sides, and I believe it would be wrong to call those operatives murderers. That's already been up for debate on ES before, though.

[SKOALSKIN]

This is the same "progressive" University that was willing to give a platform to Ahmadinejad. The banishment of ROTC is complete bull****. If you don't want to particpate then don't sign up. But then again the university is a littered with self indulgent spoiled kids that don't even know what they are arguing about.

[RiggosMohawk]

While people feel obligated/empowered to boo a speech/event that they do not agree with, I would hope that this man's service to his country would lead people to give him a bit more respect than they would otherwise. They may not agree with his position, which is entirely in their rights, but he has shed his own blood to protect that right to assemble and disagree with his message. That earns a free pass from audible booing in my book.

[NavyDave]

So you'd only fight for like minded individuals? (Thats what you seem to be insinuating, correct me if I'm wrong.) Can't say there is much honor in that, but neither is saying that the entire military is deranged or murderous. I hardly think we're the "United" States of America anymore :/

No I also fought for the stupid and the gutless demographic as well as those who watch things happened, wondered what happened and the didn't care what happened if it didn't push their agenda demographics.

Deranged and murderous? Are you talking about the Ft Hood Jihadist?? Thats not very PC of you.

[Destino]

So explain again why it wasn't despicable for them to heckle...if all adults should behave no matter the speaker. Sorry if I'm just being slow today.

That it's all too common sadly. Seriously pull back off this issue for a minute and ask yourself this:

If you attended a meeting meant to discuss an issue in your community, would you shout out things like "racist" or would you listen and behave in a manner that you consider respectful?

I think most of us can sit through a meeting and not act foolish but when we read about people behaving otherwise we accept it as normal. It's not normal. Most adults have enough self respect to not act like jackasses in that setting. At least that's what I want to believe anyway. lol