Burgold Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I suppose it's an easy thing to do and somewhat natural, but it feels like it's getting to be more and more common. Recently, we had the thread about the reporters who were assaulted in Egypt who apparently were just asking for it because they were doing their job. Then yesterday, when Brandon Banks was assaulted we heard that it was Brandon's fault because he went to a night club and he should know better. Didn't matter that the club was in a good area or that Banks didn't instigate the fight, but only came to the aid of a friend. So, I guess I'm wondering is it becoming more common to blame the victim and when do you think it is appropriate to blame the victim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Are we instead creating victims? **** happens...and it is usually predicated by our actions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Well, here's my take on it: I think people realize that there are two sides to every coin. While most do sympathize with the victims of situations like these, they also know that steps could have been taken to prevent the victim from becoming, well...a victim. For example: we do sympathize with a child who has burnt his hand on a stove top, but more often than not, we tell the child "well, your mother told you not to do that." Now, sometimes, people over do it to the point where almost all the blame is put on the victim; but that's another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 Are we instead creating victims?**** happens...and it is usually predicated by our actions I think that's too easy. Basically, what you're saying is that if I'm in my car on my way to a business lunch and a guy who just had his three martini lunch is drunk off his ass and smashes his car into me than I am at fault for being on the road. That the guy hit in his home by a random spray of bullets from a drive by shooter is to blame for living in the wrong neighborhood. That girl did deserve to be raped because she wore a mini skirt. People were stupid to attend a political rally in Arizona when they know politics can get heated. Now, I agree that **** happens and while everyone should look both ways before crossing the street (whichever metaphorical street we're talking about)... but blaming the victim is a dangerous philosophy to get comfortable with. Why are we so eager to give the thugs a green light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 No, Burgold... Being in your car, while still risky, is much different than being at the club. Clubs are NOT good places. Sorry. They aren't. I've seen TONS of bad happen there and not very much in the way of good. When you go clubbing, trouble has a tendency to find you. It's the lay of the land. No one should tell anyone what they can and cannot do. But each person must use discretion. Famous people need to use even more discretion. Enjoy, have fun... But be alert and safe. And not specifically to BB16's case... But generally the victim did something they shouldn't have done, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 No, Burgold... Being in your car, while still risky, is much different than being at the club. Clubs are NOT good places. Sorry. They aren't. I've seen TONS of bad happen there and not very much in the way of good. When you go clubbing, trouble has a tendency to find you.It's the lay of the land. And not specifically to BB16's case... But generally the victim did something they shouldn't have done, either. You may be closer to this subject than I am. I've attended some hip hop clubs as culture reporter, but I don't attend clubs as much as I used to (I'd be the creepy old man ugh!) and maybe what are calling a club is a different animal, but all clubs are not equal or evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I think every situation should be judged differently. In Banks case, he made a choice and one of the consequences of that choice happened. It doesn't matter if you are in a club in NW DC or SE DC. You stand out more than others, you're basically a magnet for problems. It also doesn't help that Banks hangs out with a particular Wizards player who is notorious for DC clubbing incidents over the last few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I suppose it's an easy thing to do and somewhat natural, but it feels like it's getting to be more and more common. Recently, we had the thread about the reporters who were assaulted in Egypt who apparently were just asking for it because they were doing their job. Then yesterday, when Brandon Banks was assaulted we heard that it was Brandon's fault because he went to a night club and he should know better. Didn't matter that the club was in a good area or that Banks didn't instigate the fight, but only came to the aid of a friend.So, I guess I'm wondering is it becoming more common to blame the victim and when do you think it is appropriate to blame the victim? The victim should not be blamed but shrewd is the one is the one seeing calamity coming and conceals oneself. It is good out of a desire for self protection to avoid certain situations, but if one does not and something bad happens is it still a terrble event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 If you get punched in the head because you walked into the middle of a riot when you could have walked around, whose fault is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 If you get punched in the head because you walked into the middle of a riot when you could have walked around, whose fault is it? Sheesh. I thought Conservatives believed in punishing the criminal and responsibility. This blaming society and the victim stuff is ridiculous. Next we'll hear that murderers aren't to blame for their actions because they had a rough childhood and didn't get enough cupcakes at their birthday parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofSparta Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I don't think the victim should ever be blamed at all, but sometimes they honestly should have known better. Let's take the Anderson Cooper case you brought up in the OP. Anderson Cooper is an American reporter in a foreign country covering what is (was) basically a riot, albeit mostly peaceful, to overthrow the government. Now Anderson Cooper did not deserve to be attacked, but he should have known that would be the likely outcome of walking into a crowd of protestors while the government is trying to shut them down. Even if he doesn't get attacked by those near him, he still has a chance to get hit with rubber bullets, tear gas, or whatever else the government over there would use to disperse crowds. Being an American reporter does not give you complete immunity from bad things happening in other countries. That's especially true when the rule of a dictatorship in on the line. So to recap: Cooper did not deserve to be attacked, but common sense should have told him that bad things were likely to occur in the situation he placed himself in. Brandon Banks got cut because he tried to help a buddy who was getting stabbed. He knew he was likely to get hurt doing what he did....but come on, can any of us really blame him? Most of us would have done the same thing to help a life-long friend. He may be slightly to blame for his own wounds because he "unnecessarily" involved himself in that situation....but at the same time how can anybody really blame him for saving his buddy's life from a lunatic? Personally I don't think that for a vast majority of situations, nobody should blame the victim for being a victim. But that doesn't mean people can't say that what they did to put themselves in a situation wasn't stupid if bad outcomes are likely. Riots overseas are likely to involve violence. Getting hit by a stray bullet due to a gang-fight the next street over is completely out of somebody's hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Burgold, not the same. You take calculated risks. Walking through the ghetto with an "I hate MLK" shirt is stupid. Driving your car is not an immediate risk in that way. Going to a country where emotions are heated and people are extremely prone to do dumb things. Not their FAULT but you take the calculated risks. ---------- Post added February-13th-2011 at 01:33 PM ---------- Sheesh. I thought Conservatives believed in punishing the criminal and responsibility. This blaming society and the victim stuff is ridiculous. Next we'll hear that murderers aren't to blame for their actions because they had a rough childhood and didn't get enough cupcakes at their birthday parties. If you walk though gunfire when you could've walked around, it is indeed your fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardi gras skin Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Too many people find respite from extremely bad decisions under the umbrella of victimhood. I deal with this almost daily. There are far fewer victims than there are people who think of themselves as victims. Sheesh all you want Burg but this isn't some hypothetical I'm talking about here. The primary thing keeping people I'm working with from making progress is that they are more comfortable being a victim than they are taking responsibility for their choices. That said, I do deal with true victims and their demeanor is totally different. A person who has had their humanity stripped by someone with power over them stands out. Those situations are enraging and sad and leave you feeling empty. It hurts to know that humans will treat other people like that and it keeps you awake at night. You can't help but feel helpless with them. No, I don't put Anderson Cooper in that category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Ah the old responsibility line that libs abhor. Understanding a person can be responsible for putting themselves in a situation does not excuse irresponsible behavior in others. I agree Mardi,a true victim is indeed different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuposse87 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I understand the notion that Banks put himself in a "bad situation" but our society shouldn't be that way. When you go to a club, you shouldn't expect a good chance of getting stabbed. When I go to Adams morgan, i'm not saying in my head "33% chance of gettin shanked tonight, I hope somebody feels sorry for me when it happens."I guess I feel for victims when whatever the case is, is just very unfortunate. I'm as liberal as liberal gets, but I don't feel bad for reporters in Egypt, they're doing their job. If your job entails any sense of danger you can't expect me to feel that bad for you. There is some sense of "honor" for people who choose to pursue dangerous professions, so I guess they hang their hat on that (and I'm thankful society does have people like that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 No, Burgold... Being in your car, while still risky, is much different than being at the club. Clubs are NOT good places. Sorry. They aren't. I've seen TONS of bad happen there and not very much in the way of good. When you go clubbing, trouble has a tendency to find you.It's the lay of the land. oh come off it... Clubs aren't the dark dungeons you are making them out to be and you were there enough apparently to see so much would you have appreciated getting stabbed and being blamed for it? Of course not. Someone pulled a knife and stabbed people, that person is the criminal. I'm not down with surrendering society to criminals because of a misguided small minded concept of good people shouldn't go anywhere bad people might be. Banks was stabbed at an upscale club on k street that I've been to many times and look.... Not one stabbing.As for this true victim nonsense... Looks to be defined by "going somewhere I approve and doing something I approve" is a clerk at a business in a bad part of town a true victim or should he have known better if he gets robbed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 This isn't Gotham City, you should feel comfortable leaving your house without believing that you are contributing to a potential crime against you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 If you walk though gunfire when you could've walked around, it is indeed your fault. So going to a nightclub is the same as walking through gunfire? Who knew? It's amazing. In almost every post blaming the victim is the way people want to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 As for this true victim nonsense... Looks to be defined by "going somewhere I approve and doing something I approve" is a clerk at a business in a bad part of town a true victim or should he have known better if he gets robbed? Well he could be clueless,I do feel sympathy for the ignorant. I support the same punishment no matter the location though. added supporting the same punishment regardless of the victim or location would seem the very definition of not blaming the victim Bur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 Ah the old responsibility line that libs abhor.Understanding a person can be responsible for putting themselves in a situation does not excuse irresponsible behavior in others. I agree Mardi,a true victim is indeed different I just don't get that going to a restaurant or a club is "asking for it" I have gone to many, many clubs without being threatened. Goodness, I've even taken the subway in New York and walked the streets of Anacostia. That doesn't mean I have a secret death wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deejaydana Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I just don't get that going to a restaurant or a club is "asking for it" I have gone to many, many clubs without being threatened. Goodness, I've even taken the subway in New York and walked the streets of Anacostia. That doesn't mean I have a secret death wish. All bets are off though when you're already in the public spotlight and, for right or wrong, NFL players seem to have a target on their backs when they go out to clubs. Look how many times people would scrap with Charles Barkley back in the day. With all the rewards that come with their profession, there will always be knuckleheads who screw with them when they go out. They give up a normal life with the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 So, you think unless "celebrities" act like total recluses and become hermits they deserve any ill treatment directed at them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 So, you think unless "celebrities" act like total recluses and become hermits they deserve any ill treatment directed at them? Is someone excusing a crime or advocating the criminal not being punished? Being a victim earns no points,nor is sympathy a payment earned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 Is someone excusing a crime or advocating the criminal not being punished? I think they are. If you say that so and so was asking for it. Well, then the guy who gave it to him was provoked. If he was provoked he's either not guilty or subject to a lesser penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 So going to a nightclub is the same as walking through gunfire? Who knew?It's amazing. In almost every post blaming the victim is the way people want to go. I was not aware (should've read the first post) that this was directly related to Brandon Banks and his club incident. I don't agree that it's his fault. Most would expect to go to a club without getting into an argument that'd get them stabbed. But never in my post did I make the comparison to Banks. You were nice enough to put those words in my mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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