Mahons21 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 You forgot Michael Vick (pre dog fighting conviction), Vince Young, and our very own Albert Haynesworth. And frankly, I don't recall any of the people you mentioned calling themselves an entertainer and an icon before they ever played a single pro game. If you have such a quote, I suggest you post it. If not, I suggest you move on to a relevant argument. Arrogance is arrogance, it doesn't really matter how it comes out. -thanks for addressing the entire post /sarc My point was not that arrogant athletes succeed, the point was that their is no correlation between arrogance and failure in professional sports, so it would be silly to discount someone because of their arrogance. Again though, maybe you missed it. What has Cam done that's so awful since the stolen laptop that was two years ago? And where does leaving your girlfriend, that you just knocked up, for a supermodel rank on your character scale? What about cheating on the field of play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 DG, do you really not have concerns about Newton given his past and immature statements made today?So you are saying you don't take character concerns into consideration when looking at any prospect? I have no more concerns about Newton's character or work ethic then about any other prospect. I'm not sure about other people, but I cannot make judgments on things that I feel require close personal contact to know. I've said in the draft database thread that I really don't consider character/intangibles. From our vantage point in front of our computers or sitting on our couches there are going to be things we cannot know. For me a person character fits falls into the category. We're forced to rely on reports and other peoples opinions. And different people will have different opinions on the same person. I've meet all types of people in my life and I wouldn't presume to be able to make a definite judgement on anyones character without at the very least having meet that person. I know people that are pillars of the community who did things far worse then what Cam is rumored to have done. I'm sure Cam isn't the first QB to have cut corners and I don't think that cutting corners in and of itself means that he lacks work ethic and it certainly doesn't equate to some of the views of Cam recently posted in this thread. And I don't have concerns about the comments Peter King very effectively teased in his upcoming article or whatever. One reason is because I want to read the comments in context and I don't hold a high opinion of Peter King who just recently had to make a 2 retractions or adjustments. (Denver w/ Tebow-Elway and then w/ Rothlisberger-Goodell). But further I don't really care what he says I care how he plays. And although people might view Cam's statement as immature he's probably right; a star athlete can become all 3 of the things he mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyvern Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Someone needs to remind Cam, that there's no "Icon" in TEAM. (Hmmm, if Cam's the "entertainer"...those that mean the rest of the players and coaches are his backup "Pips"?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I think Cam's real nature will be revealed and he will be the next NFL QB who's head leads him right out of the game within 5 years. Anyway, Cam will not be available when the Skins draft at #10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillSkinzFan84 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 It seems like alot of people here don't like cam and want to see him fail. That was evident in the BCS championship game thread...it seemed like I was the only one saying positive things about him. People argued with me when I said how accurate he is and that he is nothing close to tim tebow as far as having delivery problems. Now that the scouts and draft gurus have confirmed what I said months ago, the anti-cam crowd dwell on his so called "character concerns" or they say he won't be able to read nfl defenses which is something that ALL qbs will have to go thru. I could care less about him buying a stolen laptop or cheating on test, I don't even care about him getting money to play. If you have an ounce of common sense then you would know or understand that kids make mistakes and that almost all top college and highschool athletes cheat, get grades bumped up, and receive benefits. Some of your favorite redskins players probably did the same things in college it just isn't in the news so you don't hear about it. Even if you did find out I doubt that your feelings would change towards your favorite players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aarobinson Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Stupid comment, but he's not wrong per se. He certainly is both an entertainer and an icon in the literal sense. Definitely a stupid comment though--someone needs to send him to Magic Johnson's old media coaches. Him and Mallett both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Wow. It's like watching an elephant smash through a room and hearing people say "Elephant? What Elephant?" as they step in it's poop. :doh: ---------- Post added February-23rd-2011 at 01:41 AM ---------- It seems like alot of people here don't like cam and want to see him fail. Sorry. I'm a Redskins fan. That's all I care about. There are better prospects out there. Let someone else take a chance on the entertainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Wow. It's like watching an elephant smash through a room and hearing people say "Elephant? What Elephant?" as they step in it's poop. :doh: Ya... exactly like that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketCitySkins Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Cam Newton is showing himself to be a class A head case. I'm sorry if you don't like that but it's true. Plugging your fingers in your ear isn't going to change anything. He bought a stolen laptop knowing it was stolen. That should tell anyone with two functioning neurons that there is a good chance of a character problem. More than that, as a high profile athlete with NFL aspirations, it was an incredibly stupid. Now, without having proven anything in the NFL he says "I see myself not only as a football player, but an entertainer and icon". And you don't see a problem with that? Really? If there is anyone not to be taken seriously, I'm pretty sure it's you. Cam didn't KNOW that the laptop was stolen. He was approached by a man selling items from the trunk of his car. The man tried to sell Cam clothes which Cam said when you are 6'6" tall you can't just buy clothes anywhere. Not sure if after that Cam saw the laptop and asked about it or the man offered the laptop for sale, but Cam was in need of a laptop because his laptop had been damaged when his dorm was flooded. Cam has said in interviews that, yes, he should have known he was buying a stolen laptop and he suspected something wasn't right when he paid about 1/3 of what the laptop was worth, but it's still not the same as knowing you're buying stolen property. I don't have a problem with Cam seeing himself as an entertainer knowing the personality he has. I do have a problem with him seeing himself as an icon before he's even played a down in the NFL. ---------- Post added February-22nd-2011 at 09:53 PM ---------- Wow. It's like watching an elephant smash through a room and hearing people say "Elephant? What Elephant?" as they step in it's poop. :doh:---------- Post added February-23rd-2011 at 01:41 AM ---------- Sorry. I'm a Redskins fan. That's all I care about. There are better prospects out there. Let someone else take a chance on the entertainer. I don't think there's a snowball's chance in Hell that Cam will be a Redskin. I'll be shocked if he's not drafted at #3 by the Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillSkinzFan84 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Wow. It's like watching an elephant smash through a room and hearing people say "Elephant? What Elephant?" as they step in it's poop. :doh:---------- Post added February-23rd-2011 at 01:41 AM ---------- Sorry. I'm a Redskins fan. That's all I care about. There are better prospects out there. Let someone else take a chance on the entertainer. And I rest my case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 The last time the Redskins took a chance on a player with serious character concerns, but boat loads of physical potential was 2004. That player was Sean Taylor, and he was drafted 5th overall, take what you will from it. We got burned on Haynesworth though. He counts too. ---------- Post added February-22nd-2011 at 09:14 PM ---------- It seems like alot of people here don't like cam and want to see him fail. It also seems like the people who are in love with him think that anyone who criticizes him for his myriad flaws have a personal agenda against him. Did you ever think that the kid just might be a flawed prospect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 We got burned on Haynesworth though. He counts too. You have a point but only up to a point. I know I didn't detail it but if you read through the debate you will see we're discussing players that we draft. We didn't draft Haynesworth. I say this only because I think it's easier to mold a younger player. If Cam is surrounded by players with the proper work ethic I think it will be contagious on a rookie, and he too will pick it up, clearly that isn't the same for Haynesworth. In addition, Cam bought a stolen laptop when he was 19.. Albert Haynesworth stomped on someone's head during a game when he was 27. Having character concerns is very different than having proven character issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 If accepting the fact that there are things we cannot knowabout a person edit:without actually knowing the person means I shouldn't be taken seriously then I'm glad of it.HTTR I understand your point DG and I applaud you for being consistent in an impartial treatment of prospects that ignores all intangible concerns. But given how important intangible concerns are to the success of a prospect, particularly a quarterback, that's an unsatisfying limitation to place on the discussion for most fans. Especially since it penalizes clean prospects and favors guys who aren't clean. Concerning Newton's character, there've been enough clouds to make Smokey the Bear spin in his grave like a helicopter during the three short semesters Newton attended a division I university. He's not clean and this is demonstrably the case. His discussion should consider this because it's public knowledge and they are things that play a factor in his projection. Prospects always get slammed every year when they aren't clean off the field. Newton is no different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtyler42 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 It also seems like the people who are in love with him think that anyone who criticizes him for his myriad flaws have a personal agenda against him. Did you ever think that the kid just might be a flawed prospect? Steve there is a difference between calling him a flawed prospect( which I'm sure everyone agrees with) and calling him an idiot, jack ass, head case, and I suspect even worse things in private that he's being called...In my case at least that's where the calls of a personal bias come from... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillSkinzFan84 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 We got burned on Haynesworth though. He counts too.---------- Post added February-22nd-2011 at 09:14 PM ---------- It also seems like the people who are in love with him think that anyone who criticizes him for his myriad flaws have a personal agenda against him. Did you ever think that the kid just might be a flawed prospect? How many players in the league now do you think did the same or similar things in college? Did u ever cheat in school? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Steve there is a difference between calling him a flawed prospect( which I'm sure everyone agrees with) and calling him an idiot, jack ass, head case, and I suspect even worse things in private that he's being called...In my case at least that's where the calls of a personal bias come from... I have been pretty critical of Newton, and never once have I used one of those terms. Some people are going to be blindly in love and some blindly hateful. But most people are somewhere in the middle. Not everyone who questions him is a "hater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillSkinzFan84 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Steve there is a difference between calling him a flawed prospect( which I'm sure everyone agrees with) and calling him an idiot, jack ass, head case, and I suspect even worse things in private that he's being called...In my case at least that's where the calls of a personal bias come from... Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 How many players in the league now do you think did the same or similar things in college? Did u ever cheat in school? How many franchise QBs have been charged with multiple felonies, and left college for repeated disciplinary issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 How many franchise QBs have been charged with multiple felonies, and left college for repeated disciplinary issues? You're drawing from a very small sample size, with the two conditions you've put forth, so ya their probably hasn't been one. Does that mean their won't/can't be one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 How many players in the league now do you think did the same or similar things in college? Did u ever cheat in school? I have no idea. I can't think of any other players that were caught. No I never cheated in college. It's actually a huge deal at the college I went to and my best friend was on the honor council so I was pretty familiar with how the honor system operated. If you got caught cheating the penalties were extremely severe. If you got caught lying they were extremely severe. I knew people who got kicked out of school for less than what Newton did and the consequences were such that they're probably still feeling them today. Honor violations at my school stay on your transcript for at least four years after you leave the institution. That means for four years you can't hope to get into another good college or even hope to get into a good grad school. Employers that ask to see your transcript can see what happened too, and it's a black stain on your resume for those kinds of jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtyler42 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I have been pretty critical of Newton, and never once have I used one of those terms.Some people are going to be blindly in love and some blindly hateful. But most people are somewhere in the middle. Not everyone who questions him is a "hater." I know you have Tris you've even defended him lol, all I'm saying is, be critical/skeptical all you want b/c Newton has given everyone reason to be, but all the name calling and generalizations heaped on him aren't necessary, and as a person who has made mistakes in his life, and will continue to make them I just find it ridiculous how judgmental everyone one is...like no one here has ever made mistakes in their life... I may be in the minority but I don't want a choir boy as my QB, I want someone who is tough, has been through a lot both good and bad, overcome that adversity, and made the best of it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillSkinzFan84 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 How many franchise QBs have been charged with multiple felonies, and left college for repeated disciplinary issues? It would be nice if u answered the question. Lots of players have had to transfer schools for getting in trouble and lots of them went on to have good pro careers. Then you have the countless numbers who never got caught so you don't even know about them. I'm supposed to look at Cam different because he got caught? I know a pro qb who was charged and convicted and still had a great season finished 2nd in mvp voting and half the people on here would take him in a second...mike vick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I'm still waiting for a response to this question: To those of you who are so concerned about character. Where do repeated allegations of sexual misconduct rank on your character scale? What about leaving your girlfriend you just impregnated for a super model. Where does that rank on the character scale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 You're drawing from a very small sample size, with the two conditions you've put forth, so ya their probably hasn't been one. Does that mean their won't/can't be one? Either or then. And I'll expand the sample size - how many QBs who have ever made a single Pro Bowl have either been charged with one felony, or left school for disciplinary reasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillSkinzFan84 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I know you have Tris you've even defended him lol, all I'm saying is, be critical/skeptical all you want b/c Newton has given everyone reason to be, but all the name calling and generalizations heaped on him aren't necessary, and as a person who has made mistakes in his life, and will continue to make them I just find it ridiculous how judgmental everyone one is...like no one here has ever made mistakes in their life... Exactly thats what im saying. So nobody on here has ever cheated on a test or homework in school? Nobody has bought something hot or"from off the back of the truck"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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