A Closer Look at 2011 QB Prospects:Cam Newton

[Going Commando]

Steve there is a difference between calling him a flawed prospect( which I'm sure everyone agrees with) and calling him an idiot, jack ass, head case, and I suspect even worse things in private that he's being called...In my case at least that's where the calls of a personal bias come from...

Meh, I've called him stupid and an idiot plenty of times. I think he has committed the actions of a stupid person or an idiot in the past and I think, for practical purposes, character is the sum total of one's actions. I don't have any particularly strong dislike for him as an individual--any more so than other prospects who have done lots of stupid things in the past. I have no allegiance to Auburn like I do for the Redskins or VT so I've got no inclination to look past or defend stupid actions. When I'm playing armchair GM, I'm looking at his situation from the perspective of a critical potential employer. I'm going to be suspicious of shady or foolish past behavior and I'm going to call it out when I see it. I've done the same for Mallett. I did the same for Adrian Clayborn, Marvin Austin, Marcell Dareus, and even Robert Quinn when I first found out about their transgressions. I wasn't ready to suspend my skepticism on Clayborn and Quinn until I found out more about their situations and read a good explanation of where they were coming from when they made their mistakes. In Clayborn's case, I thought his actions were totally understandable given the circumstances of his blip and I don't hold it against him any more. Quinn's actions are more of a cause for skepticism, but ultimately I buy the explanation that he's a quiet, well behaved kid who foolishly got himself mixed up in something that was a one time thing.

I'm willing to change my opinions too based on what comes out. I liked Dareus a lot before, but now I start reading about a lot of character concerns on him and suddenly the smoke starts building on him as a prospect and I get worried. He drops a little bit in my rankings, because I don't think the risk is worth it for a guy with shady character when there are lots of other prospects at his position that match his level of potential.

[Dukes and Skins]

Exactly thats what im saying. So nobody on here has ever cheated on a test or homework in school? Nobody has bought something hot or"from off the back of the truck"?

I know I personally haven't done either. When I look at Newton I see a guy with great athletic potential but I just wonder if he will ever amount to being the Franchise QB he'll be drafted to be

[The Tris]

It would be nice if u answered the question. Lots of players have had to transfer schools for getting in trouble and lots of them went on to have good pro careers.

Then you have the countless numbers who never got caught so you don't even know about them. I'm supposed to look at Cam different because he got caught?

I know a pro qb who was charged and convicted and still had a great season finished 2nd in mvp voting and half the people on here would take him in a second...mike vick.

I'm still waiting for a response to this question:

To those of you who are so concerned about character.

Where do repeated allegations of sexual misconduct rank on your character scale?

What about leaving your girlfriend you just impregnated for a super model. Where does that rank on the character scale?

Both of you are talking about issues that presented themselves AFTER the player was an established pro. That is a completely different scenario than someone who has the issues before every stepping on the field.

We forgive Brady and Big Ben because they have proven what they can do on the field - we can thus over look these issues. Cam has not proven squat, so he gets no benefit of the doubt.

And ChillSkins, we are not talking about lots of players - we are talking about QBs. There is a big difference. If Cam was a WR with these issues, they would be a minor footnote. As he is a QB, its a whole different issue.

[ChillSkinzFan84]

Either or then.

And I'll expand the sample size - how many QBs who have ever made a single Pro Bowl have either been charged with one felony, or left school for disciplinary reasons?

Mike Vick was in jail and made the pro bowl. Is that good enough for you? Now why don't u try answering my question. How many players in the nfl do you think cheated in school and got paid? Your favorite player is probably one of them.

[The Tris]

Exactly thats what im saying. So nobody on here has ever cheated on a test or homework in school? Nobody has bought something hot or"from off the back of the truck"?

No one on here is about to get a multi-million dollar contract, and assigned the most difficult job in sports. QBs are drafted like CEOs are hired these days - after lots of careful analysis, more so than your average player or average white collar worker.

Like it or not, as a QB, Cam is held to a much hire standard than you or I or the average OL or RB prospect.

---------- Post added February-22nd-2011 at 10:01 PM ----------

Mike Vick was in jail and made the pro bowl. Is that good enough for you? Now why don't u try answering my question. How many players in the nfl do you think cheated in school and got paid? Your favorite player is probably one of them.

Lots of players cheat. Not a lot of players get charged with felonies, dismissed from school, and find themselves in a major recruiting violation, much less QBs - ALL BEFORE THEY ENTER THE LEAGUE - before they have millions of dollars.

I can say with confidence that no Pro Bowl player has ever been in as much trouble in as many difference instances as Cam Newton prior to the NFL.

[Mahons21]

We forgive Brady and Big Ben because they have proven what they can do on the field - we can thus over look these issues. Cam has not proven squat, so he gets no benefit of the doubt.

That's a silly logic. Cam can't prove what he isn't given the opportunity to prove. However he has shown, that when given the opportunity he can and will prove himself on the field.

Saying Cam has not proven squat is just a biased way of saying, Cam hasn't gotten the opportunity to prove himself in the NFL.

---------- Post added February-22nd-2011 at 10:02 PM ----------

Either or then.

And I'll expand the sample size - how many QBs who have ever made a single Pro Bowl have either been charged with one felony, or left school for disciplinary reasons?

Maybe that guy that lead the offense that set records playing our team this year.

[The Tris]

That's a silly logic. Cam can't prove what he isn't given the opportunity to prove. However he has shown, that when given the opportunity he can and will prove himself on the field.

Saying Cam has not proven squat is just a biased way of saying, Cam hasn't gotten the opportunity to prove himself in the NFL.

---------- Post added February-22nd-2011 at 10:02 PM ----------

Maybe that guy that lead the offense that set records playing our team this year.

Geez man, how can you not see the difference between issues pre-NFL and then after you are in the NFL.

If a guy has issues before he is given millions of dollars, what happens when they get paid?

[holmester]

We forgive Brady and Big Ben because they have proven what they can do on the field - we can thus over look these issues. Cam has not proven squat, so he gets no benefit of the doubt.

Speak for yourself on that. I would much rather have a QB that bought a laptop that he knew had a good chance of being stolen and that cheated on a couple of tests then have a guy that rapes girls in a bathroom with his bodyguards blocking the door. Even if that QB wasn't as good. The Rooney's almost cut ties with Big Ben (their franchise QB) after his accusations. Thats a bit of an immature statement to make. Cam's misdoings are'nt even in the same ball park as Ben's. Yet your saying Ben gets a pass because of his onfield play while Cam gets no benefit of the doubt.

[jtyler42]

Meh, I've called him stupid and an idiot plenty of times. I think he has committed the actions of a stupid person or an idiot in the past and I think, for practical purposes, character is the sum total of one's actions. I don't have any particularly strong dislike for him as an individual--any more so than other prospects who have done lots of stupid things in the past. I have no allegiance to Auburn like I do for the Redskins or VT so I've got no inclination to look past or defend stupid actions. When I'm playing armchair GM, I'm looking at his situation from the perspective of a critical potential employer. I'm going to be suspicious of shady or foolish past behavior and I'm going to call it out when I see it. I've done the same for Mallett. I did the same for Adrian Clayborn, Marvin Austin, Marcell Dareus, and even Robert Quinn when I first found out about their transgressions. I wasn't ready to suspend my skepticism on Clayborn and Quinn until I found out more about their situations and read a good explanation of where they were coming from when they made their mistakes. In Clayborn's case, I thought his actions were totally understandable given the circumstances of his blip and I don't hold it against him any more. Quinn's actions are more of a cause for skepticism, but ultimately I buy the explanation that he's a quiet, well behaved kid who foolishly got himself mixed up in something that was a one time thing.

I'm willing to change my opinions too based on what comes out. I liked Dareus a lot before, but now I start reading about a lot of character concerns on him and suddenly the smoke starts building on him as a prospect and I get worried. He drops a little bit in my rankings, because I don't think the risk is worth it for a guy with shady character when there are lots of other prospects at his position that match his level of potential.

Steve I know you do your due diligence as far as looking into things, and I believe you when you say you harbor no personal bias against him...A 19, 20yr old kid making bad decisions, or saying stupid things doesn't make him stupid, or an idiot, or a jack ass, or head case...Immature definitely...Is that a concern or red flag? Most definitely...

[Mahons21]

Geez man, how can you not see the difference between issues pre-NFL and then after you are in the NFL.

If a guy has issues before he is given millions of dollars, what happens when they get paid?

They buy laptops from Best Buy and the armchair psychologist pipe down.

[ChillSkinzFan84]

Both of you are talking about issues that presented themselves AFTER the player was an established pro. That is a completely different scenario than someone who has the issues before every stepping on the

We forgive Brady and Big Ben because they have proven what they can do on the field - we can thus over look these issues. Cam has not proven squat, so he gets no benefit of the doubt.

And ChillSkins, we are not talking about lots of players - we are talking about QBs. There is a big difference. If Cam was a WR with these issues, they would be a minor footnote. As he is a QB, its a whole different issue.

I see your not getting the point so let me make it easy for you. All of the allegations have nothing to do with his onfield play.

It doesn't matter if it's done in college or the pros, qb or receiver it doesn't matter. If you can play you can play

So why keep harping on things that don't effect his onfield play?

My point in saying that plenty of players have done the same is to show that it hasn't hurt their play or game.

What someone does in the classroom has zero effect on their play, whether they buy a laptop from trunk of car or from best buy means nothing. Its been proven.

[holmester]

Geez man, how can you not see the difference between issues pre-NFL and then after you are in the NFL.

If a guy has issues before he is given millions of dollars, what happens when they get paid?

You really need to put what he did in context. With his millions of dollars is he going to enroll in 30 different University's so that he can cheat on thousands of tests and steal more laptops? LMAO. I mean really. What are you getting at?

He has proven to be a hardworker, great teammate, and unbelievable football player. He also has shown to be pretty ****y (hard to believe when your being called the greatest CFB ever ) and has made some bonehead mistakes as a teenager that have been so magnified and blown out of proportion that its ridiculous. I don't even want to draft the kid but damn, some of you are just as bad as the media.

[ChillSkinzFan84]

Lol @holmester good post. They're as bad as the media because that's all they listen to. If the media says it then it must be true smh

[Going Commando]

Steve I know you do your due diligence as far as looking into things, and I believe you when you say you harbor no personal bias against him...A 19, 20yr old kid making bad decisions, or saying stupid things doesn't make him stupid, or an idiot, or a jack ass, or head case...Immature definitely...Is that a concern or red flag? Most definitely...

I think I see what the difference in our approach is. Your coming at the situation more from the perspective of a fan, which is fine and it's natural obviously because we're all just fans. I'm playing armchair GM though and coming at the situation by trying to place myself into the shoes of our GM as if I myself were making the decision on whether or not to draft him. I'm holding myself accountable for a mistake in judgement. My perspective is going to be more critical because I think a good GM will naturally be very critical and skeptical. My approach is tempered by strong adherence to a philosophy of minimizing risk as much as possible and hedging when it can't be avoided. Yours is probably going to be more optimistic and willing to forgive because you're not uptight about losing your job if you get your call wrong. I know I don't actually have anything riding on whether or not he pans out in the NFL, but as a seasoned armchair GM, I enjoy putting myself in the shoes of someone who would. I choose to pretend that I do because it makes amateur player evaluation fun for me and it provides an escape from our otherwise disappointing team. I want to be right about my projections of prospects more often than I'm wrong.

That said, if I were a GM, I wouldn't feel comfortable with forgiving Newton's past mistakes and ignoring his character concerns until I saw him produce at a high level on the field in the NFL (and sustain that success). That means I probably wouldn't draft him. There are other fish in the sea. If I'm heavily concerned with managing my risk in drafting a QB, I'll look for cleaner prospects that have the potential to develop into franchise caliber players.

[Floodzone004]

I think I see what the difference in our approach is. Your coming at the situation more from the perspective of a fan, which is fine and it's natural obviously because we're all just fans. I'm playing armchair GM though and coming at the situation by trying to place myself into the shoes of our GM as if I myself were making the decision on whether or not to draft him. I'm holding myself accountable for a mistake in judgement. My perspective is going to be more critical because I think a good GM will naturally be very critical and skeptical. My approach is tempered by strong adherence to a philosophy of minimizing risk as much as possible and hedging when it can't be avoided. Yours is probably going to be more optimistic and willing to forgive because you're not uptight about losing your job if you get your call wrong. I know I don't actually have anything riding on whether or not he pans out in the NFL, but as a seasoned armchair GM, I enjoy putting myself in the shoes of someone who would. I choose to pretend that I do because it makes amateur player evaluation fun for me and it provides an escape from our otherwise disappointing team. I want to be right about my projections of prospects more often than I'm wrong.

That said, if I were a GM, I wouldn't feel comfortable with forgiving Newton's past mistakes and ignoring his character concerns until I saw him produce at a high level on the field in the NFL (and sustain that success). That means I probably wouldn't draft him. There are other fish in the see. If I'm heavily concerned with managing my risk in drafting a QB, I'll look for cleaner prospects that have the potential to develop into franchise caliber players.

Steve Steve Steve, too much rational thinking. There's no place for that here, we're talking about Cam Newton.

[ChillSkinzFan84]

I think I see what the difference in our approach is. Your coming at the situation more from the perspective of a fan, which is fine and it's natural obviously because we're all just fans. I'm playing armchair GM though and coming at the situation by trying to place myself into the shoes of our GM as if I myself were making the decision on whether or not to draft him. I'm holding myself accountable for a mistake in judgement. My perspective is going to be more critical because I think a good GM will naturally be very critical and skeptical. My approach is tempered by strong adherence to a philosophy of minimizing risk as much as possible and hedging when it can't be avoided. Yours is probably going to be more optimistic and willing to forgive because you're not uptight about losing your job if you get your call wrong. I know I don't actually have anything riding on whether or not he pans out in the NFL, but as a seasoned armchair GM, I enjoy putting myself in the shoes of someone who would. I choose to pretend that I do because it makes amateur player evaluation fun for me and it provides an escape from our otherwise disappointing team. I want to be right about my projections of prospects more often than I'm wrong.

That said, if I were a GM, I wouldn't feel comfortable with forgiving Newton's past mistakes and ignoring his character concerns until I saw him produce at a high level on the field in the NFL (and sustain that success). That means I probably wouldn't draft him. There are other fish in the sea. If I'm heavily concerned with managing my risk in drafting a QB, I'll look for cleaner prospects that have the potential to develop into franchise caliber players.

So you would wait for him to become a free agent and then sign him? Yea that sounds like a redskins gm

[number twenty-eight]

I'd like to see the context of the icon statement, too. I do know that in an effort to appear earnest and say all the right things, he tends to get really verbose and speak unnaturally. I don't know if this is the case with the King interview, its just how he comes across to me.

No doubt he's a big drama queen and I find some of the things about his past distasteful. For instance, after a run he'll lie on the ground for a few seconds longer than he needs to make sure the camera is on him. He dives in from the five yard line when it isn't necessary. He struts around and pounds his chest, when you'd like the leader of your offense to be more modest.

But on the other side of that, he's a player's player. That gets teams and fans fired up. And if there's someone who deserved to be a little ****y on the field this past year, its this dude. I think he'll find the right stride in the pros with the showboating. But more importantly, I'm confident now that I've looked him over that he's the best player in the class and maybe all the other stuff is enough to push him down to 10 where we wouldn't have a shot at him otherwise.

[holmester]

Anyone else find it funny that one of the similar threads listed for this is "Man closer to playing God = moves closer to cloning the extinct Tasmanian tiger". LOL. Newton really is an egotistical son of a *****!

[Going Commando]

Anyone else find it funny that one of the similar threads listed for this is "Man closer to playing God = moves closer to cloning the extinct Tasmanian tiger". LOL. Newton really is an egotistical son of a *****!

LOL!!! I always knew there was something off about that Newton boy. Laptops aside, cloning Tasmanian tigers crosses the line for me. Everyone knows cloning is a slippery slope towards more general and debilitating forms of mad science.

---------- Post added February-22nd-2011 at 11:09 PM ----------

So you would wait for him to become a free agent and then sign him? Yea that sounds like a redskins gm

Not if he ends up as a JaMarcus Russell or Vince Young type free agent!

I wouldn't hold out for Newton. I'd pursue other QB prospects if they were available. I like Blaine Gabbert and am intrigued by Christian Ponder. Jake Locker after a trade down or at 41 is also mighty tempting to me. There are also a lot of prospects from the 2012 class that I'm anxious to see play next season. My early favorites for next year are Kirk Cousins and Robert Griffin III. I'm intrigued by Ryan Lindley and want to see more, and I think Nick Foles is more talented and valuable than a lot of people think when he's actually healthy. Garrett Gilbert and John Brantley both had disappointing seasons, but I think both could make huge strides this year. And then there are the big names from 2013 like Luck, Barkley, Landry Jones, Darron Thomas, and Aaron Murray who've already started to make a name for themselves and bear watching.

We'll probably have chances to get a good QB for Mike Shanahan next draft and the one after it.

Cam Newton isn't the end all be all of quarterback prospects or quarterbacking in general. There are always other good prospects and there are many ways to find success at the QB position. If I judge the risk with Newton to be unsatisfactory (which I currently do), why take that risk on? There are multiple solutions to our problem at QB that are out there for us to find.

[aarobinson]

I'd like to see the context of the icon statement, too. I do know that in an effort to appear earnest and say all the right things, he tends to get really verbose and speak unnaturally. I don't know if this is the case with the King interview, its just how he comes across to me.

No doubt he's a big drama queen and I find some of the things about his past distasteful. For instance, after a run he'll lie on the ground for a few seconds longer than he needs to make sure the camera is on him. He dives in from the five yard line when it isn't necessary. He struts around and pounds his chest, when you'd like the leader of your offense to be more modest.

But on the other side of that, he's a player's player. That gets teams and fans fired up. And if there's someone who deserved to be a little ****y on the field this past year, its this dude. I think he'll find the right stride in the pros with the showboating. But more importantly, I'm confident now that I've looked him over that he's the best player in the class and maybe all the other stuff is enough to push him down to 10 where we wouldn't have a shot at him otherwise.

I agree completely with this. I think the character stuff is our only hope.

[Going Commando]

I'd like to see the context of the icon statement, too. I do know that in an effort to appear earnest and say all the right things, he tends to get really verbose and speak unnaturally. I don't know if this is the case with the King interview, its just how he comes across to me.

No doubt he's a big drama queen and I find some of the things about his past distasteful. For instance, after a run he'll lie on the ground for a few seconds longer than he needs to make sure the camera is on him. He dives in from the five yard line when it isn't necessary. He struts around and pounds his chest, when you'd like the leader of your offense to be more modest.

But on the other side of that, he's a player's player. That gets teams and fans fired up. And if there's someone who deserved to be a little ****y on the field this past year, its this dude. I think he'll find the right stride in the pros with the showboating. But more importantly, I'm confident now that I've looked him over that he's the best player in the class and maybe all the other stuff is enough to push him down to 10 where we wouldn't have a shot at him otherwise.

Best college player and athlete, or best potential NFL player? We're looking for a QB here, not a WR or LB. We don't need the LeBron James of football as our QB, we need a Matt Schaub. The vast majority of what ends up mattering for our selection will be based on what a player's got going for him from the neck up.

Also, I wanted to point out that I think I know what you're talking about his tendency to start flubbing around when he's trying to answer a tough question in an interview. I think I subconsciously picked up on it when I watched him speak to the media. I didn't like the way he talked about the cheating and laptop incidents to the media or the public statements he made. He came off poorly--unlikeable, unaware, unrepentant and apathetic. It also didn't help that we were getting so many Newton interviews juxtaposed with Greg McElroy ones at the time. And, fair or not, I seem to heavily associate intelligence with articulacy. Newton is not a very articulate speaker, especially not when compared to Blaine Gabbert, whose interviews I've been watching and following for a year. I'm subconsciously judging all of the other prospects against him

[GibbsFactor]

Best college player and athlete, or best potential NFL player? We're looking for a QB here, not a WR or LB. We don't need the LeBron James of football as our QB, we need a Matt Schaub. The vast majority of what ends up mattering for our selection will be based on what a player's got going for him from the neck up.

Tell you what... take your Matt Schaub, I'll take Big Ben. Deal?

[number twenty-eight]

Best college player and athlete, or best potential NFL player? We're looking for a QB here, not a WR or LB. We don't need the LeBron James of football as our QB, we need a Matt Schaub. The vast majority of what ends up mattering for our selection will be based on what a player's got going for him from the neck up.

I mean I think he's the player who will help us win moreso than any other. Probably not next season, but over the course of a career.

[RocketCitySkins]

No doubt he's a big drama queen and I find some of the things about his past distasteful. For instance, after a run he'll lie on the ground for a few seconds longer than he needs to make sure the camera is on him. He dives in from the five yard line when it isn't necessary. He struts around and pounds his chest, when you'd like the leader of your offense to be more modest.

But on the other side of that, he's a player's player. That gets teams and fans fired up. And if there's someone who deserved to be a little ****y on the field this past year, its this dude. I think he'll find the right stride in the pros with the showboating. But more importantly, I'm confident now that I've looked him over that he's the best player in the class and maybe all the other stuff is enough to push him down to 10 where we wouldn't have a shot at him otherwise.

I've read that Cam stayed on the ground longer because opposing players tried to step on his hands.

"during the LSU game, some Bengal Tiger players apparently stepped on Cam’s hand(s) on purpose several times when he was getting up from the pile. Auburn coaches have instructed Cam to protect his hands (under his body) and wait until everyone else is up before getting up off the ground."

I noticed that he would do this mainly towards the end of a game and I thought he was just trying to kill clock time to protect an Auburn lead.

Also, he wasn't pounding his chest. He was making a motion like Clark Kent when he pulled his shirt back to show his Superman S. It was what fans started calling him after he leaped from the 7 yard line and landed a yard deep in the end zone.

[GibbsFactor]

Yeah, no offense but he's the QB of a major program. He knew the cameras were always on him. Laying on the ground to get extra face time on TV is a bit much and reeks of a haterocracy.