A Closer Look at 2011 QB Prospects:Cam Newton

[GibbsFactor]

A: Manning said that to the colts so the story goes to get them to draft him. Not to the press and the world.

B: Manning was still focused on football only. PERIOD. He did NOT call himself an "entertainer and an icon".

There is 10 mile divide between being ****y and considering yourself an entertainer and icon. The only successful NFL QB to have that attitude was Mike Vick and he now admits his attitude sucked, he had his priorities wrong, and it took prison to straighten him out.

And that's very fair. We've seen before that all the god given talent means nothing in the NFL if you don't study and commit. That's a fair argument about him but apparently he is a gym rat, works with the coaches and receivers all the time to better their chemistry, does the little things it takes to win. If he's committed and able to break down hours of film, well, that's a legit concern.

And he has an issue with judgment. That's a sign of a lack of intelligence but not being stupid. Just lack of judgment. That's a wisdom thing and can be learned.

[killerbee99]

Anyone getting a Jason Campbell vibe all over again, a QB so freaking divisive, you either are for him or against him....that alone is a red flag for me concerning Cam Newton.

Also, one more thing.....any one remember the Vince Young Hype, where he finished the year winning the National Championship, had a better overall performance than Newton, hell probably the best ever against onne of the best defenses in USC, and everyone was saying he should go top pick to Houston. Now, the Cam Newton apologists will state that well Cam is not a head case like Young, but this is in hindsight, and Young had a clean background and what looked liked an oustanding character, and we see how that turned out with the number 3 overall pick.

My point is this based upon the evidence we have and everything swirling around this kid, from stolen laptop in 2008 to pay for play with his dad in 2010, to wanting to be an icon and entertainer (WTF?), signing shoe deals, endorsement deals, before he has even stepped on the field, which he won't for probably his first 2 years, it's just too much risk for a top ten pick for the fae of your franchise. If we could get Newton in the second round, I will be all over the kid, or late first maybe, but NEVER a top ten pick, especially with the questions surrounding him. If those questions weren't there, I would consider taking him with our 10 overall pick. But the questions are there so no dice.

[ouvan59]

Lol how can you win the heisman and the national championship with those stats and by overhyped? Somebody please explain.

Not sure but I've got a call in to Matt Leinart for the answer.

[killerbee99]

Not sure but I've got a call in to Matt Leinart for the answer.

Bam!!!! Right in the kisser!

[number twenty-eight]

Not to mention I've said a few times I could be wrong about the guy. He could be the next top 5 QB in the league. It's not unheard of for me to be wrong. The possibility exists there sure. Yet I've given my reasons for not picking him as have others and your just stuck wrapped around the idea that someone can actually string together some coherent thoughts and backup why they come to a conclusion and state it with conviction. Sure Cam might turn out better then I think he will but I have my doubts

In human endeavors, things are rarely perfect. You take the good and the bad. Cam's good is the best this year. It isn't hard to see what there is to like about him if you can picture him as anything other than JaMarcus Russell's kleptomaniac twin.

[killerbee99]

In human endeavors, things are rarely perfect. You take the good and the bad. Cam's good is the best this year. It isn't hard to see what there is to like about him if you can picture him as anything other than JaMarcus Russell's kleptomaniac twin.

If I was a GM and onwer there is no bloody way I am giving him that much money with all the **** in his background, second round , yes good risk, but no top ten...maybe the Bills will be foolish enough.

[The Tris]

Mallett has MUCH bigger issues than Cam and while I have never questioned Cam's intelligence, I openly question Mallett's. RM might fire single digits on the wonderlic.

I question both of their maturities, but Mallett to a much greater degree.

But yeah, I figured the intelligence/race card was coming sooner or later. It can't be that I simply have reservations about a potential QB, it has to be RASSIST.

[ouvan59]

Gabbert is stealing this now as he interviews. Real original.

---------- Post added February-23rd-2011 at 12:18 PM ----------

It's become blatantly obvious that you have not done your due diligence on Cam Newton. You sound as if you know nothing about him from your posts.

Why don't you give this article a read.

http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports/columnists/hyde/blog/2011/02/draft_winds_a_thorough_breakdo.html

LOL, you call this due dilligence? Do you know who the guys that wrote that article are? They are Miami Dolphin fans who decided to start a blog.

[number twenty-eight]

But yeah, I figured the intelligence/race card was coming sooner or later. It can't be that I simply have reservations about a potential QB, it has to be RASSIST.

No I meant a work ethic bust. I trust Newton's drive to succeed and improve. He's shown that he can adapt quickly to new systems.

[GibbsFactor]

LOL, you call this due dilligence? Do you know who the guys that wrote that article are? They are Miami Dolphin fans who decided to start a blog.

And your point? Research it all. It's all true. It's a great source to find the whole picture in one story. After reading this, then research anything you find disputable, you will be in much better position to label this kid anything, good or bad. Some of the stuff in this thread is obviously just made up in some posters heads. Some of the comments in this thread are completely out in left field.

[The Tris]

Some of the stuff in this thread is obviously just made up in some posters heads. Some of the comments in this thread are completely out in left field.

Please do tell what is fictional.

[Going Commando]

Bam!!!! Right in the kisser!

[Mahons21]

Great article Gibbsfactor

my favorite portion:

Work ethic

This is one of the biggest questions surrounding Newton – how hard does he work? Well, all we see is effusive praise for his ability to knuckle down and do what it takes to be the best. As a high school junior entering the last phase of the recruitment process, Cam was rarely able to attend combines at schools of interest because he would spend all of his free time working out and watching tape. As he headed to his senior campaign and his high school had a shot at the state title, Newton arranged every weekend of the summer for his offense to work out for hours each day honing routes, increasing fitness, repping plays again and again so that the timing was down. Newton himself in an interview with Scout.com had this to say: “We've been having meetings to learn the playbook, workouts, watching film, all the extra things. Now that practice has started, our seniors are all coming to practice early and leaving late. We're trying to set the example of hard work and dedication for the young guys to follow.” Despite the unfortunate circumstances behind his departure from Florida, Newton, upon signing with the Gators highlighted one of the main reasons why he signed their LOI: “What separates Meyer from the other coaches is the way he pushes players to their limits yet encouraging them all the way. I love that.”

At Blinn, coaches raved about the way that Newton spent time with his receivers, helping them to learn to adjust their routes when a blitz is coming, teaching them to recognize hot routes when they see certain coverage’s and helping them learn the audibles. During his year with Auburn, I’ve been told that Newton was one of the first in and last to leave the weight and film rooms and was constantly trying to learn to become better. That shows on field as his game by game improvement was spectacular. Newton also talked at length about how meticulous he plans for each game watching not only film of opponents, but also of himself and of NFL and college passers he admires such as Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees and Andrew Luck: “I search other quarterbacks for clues, for pieces I can make my own. If I feel there's a trait that I don't have in my game, I'm going to try to take it from another quarterback that I saw and apply it to me.”

But perhaps the most interesting comment on his work ethic comes from his LT Lee Ziemba who said that during winter workouts Newton so impressed his offensive teammates in the weight room that they named him – a QB - to a five-man tug-of-war team to take on the defense. The offense won. Ziemba went on to say that: “Players put a great deal of stock in how hard a teammate works when there's no coach forcing him to do it. But Cam was out there in the rain, throwing passes on the weekend when we were at the lake. He was dragging receivers out there with him. That kind of work ethic prepared our guys to follow him."

So could it be true that buying a stolen laptop/receiving money for playing/and cheating have very little to do with Cam the football player?

Why judge who him by who he is currently, and what those around him think of him, when you can judge him based on a few transgressions from his past?

Another great piece from the same article

Rather than settle for their Potter Stewart-esque explanations (“I know it when I see it”), we at Universal Draft have chosen to rely on facts and figures, isolating details rather than buying vagaries. The natural and undeniable conclusion is that nobody should accuse Cameron Newton of being a ‘run-first’ quarterback, or a glorified running back, or anything of the kind. The fact of the matter is we have isolated every single snap (both pass and run) of Cam Newton’s over his final six games against Ole Miss, Chattanooga, Georgia, Alabama, South Carolina and Oregon. What we found is that Newton only scrambled for yardage on a total of 15 of 169 pass snaps. The other 80 or so runs were called as run plays from the sidelines. The rate (just under 9%) at which Newton pulled down the ball and ran for yardage rather than continuing to try and pass the ball, was comparable with the rate at which Aaron Rodgers did the same (just under 8%) for the Green Bay Packers during the 2010 regular season, according to Pro Football Focus.

[Conn]

So could it be true that buying a stolen laptop/receiving money for playing/and cheating have very little to do with Cam the football player?

No. Not on the field. But you don't draft a guy in the top ten, to be your franchise QB, just for what he does on the field. You're giving him millions and making him, immediately, the face of your franchise and the focal point of media scrutiny, in every facet of his life.

He ****ed up in college before anyone cared who he was...you think he'll handle the responsibility and pressure better as a pro, with his ego getting stroked from every corner and enough money to do as he pleases?

I might not have a strong argument that I'm right...but the reality is that right now, its just as strong as any argument you can make to the contrary. Which is a red flag, and a worry.

[Mahons21]

No. Not on the field. But you don't draft a guy in the top ten, to be your franchise QB, just for what he does on the field. You're giving him millions and making him, immediately, the face of your franchise and the focal point of media scrutiny, in every facet of his life.

Then I take it you're making the argument that poor character is not something you would want from your QB?

Even though Brady left his girlfriend he impregnated for a supermodel, and big ben has a series of sexual transgressions.

He ****ed up in college before anyone cared who he was...you think he'll handle the responsibility and pressure better as a pro, with his ego getting stroked from every corner and enough money to do as he pleases?

Majority of his problems stem from a lack of money, why would an abundance of money create more problems? Is he gonna go out and buy 30 stolen laptops now?

And what about his ego has hindered his game/team?

Is there even something wrong with a professional athlete having a big ego? Jordan/Woods/Barkley/Chamberlain/Ali/Desean Jackson/Lawrence Taylor are some of the most egotistical athletes of all time.

I might not have a strong argument that I'm right...but the reality is that right now, its just as strong as any argument you can make to the contrary. Which is a red flag, and a worry.

huuuuh?

[ouvan59]

And your point? Research it all. It's all true. It's a great source to find the whole picture in one story. After reading this, then research anything you find disputable, you will be in much better position to label this kid anything, good or bad. Some of the stuff in this thread is obviously just made up in some posters heads. Some of the comments in this thread are completely out in left field.

It's not all true. It's 95% opinion. Newton was a 2nd round pick on most boards until Team Newton riled up the media. Now the MEDIA has taken the bait.

[Conn]

Then I take it you're making the argument that poor character is not something you would want from your QB?

Yes.

Even though Brady left his girlfriend he impregnated for a supermodel, and big ben has a series of sexual transgressions.

I'm not concerned with Brady's girl troubles, that's different. He didn't break any laws, and who am I to say that he didn't fall in love with Giselle. Different situation. Cooley did something similar (without the baby), and he's a great character guy. Now you're just trying to blur the lines.

And I've never said I want Big Ben. So that point is fine, and backs up what I'm saying.

Majority of his problems stem from a lack of money, why would an abundance of money create more problems? Is he gonna go out and buy 30 stolen laptops now?

You have no idea where his problems stem from. Someone who is a poor college student doesn't need to do what he did, regardless of money situation. Trust me, I'm a poor college student. One who has never cheated or bought something that was stolen because it was cheap. You realize a decent laptop runs around $200-300 now, right? With some hard work and a ****ing brain, very affordable.

His transgressions haven't just been "money issues". They've been signs of a lack of character, and a lack of proper judgment. Stop acting like they are excusable lapses in judgment that are entirely separate...they are connected signs of extreme immaturity, and worse, huge character concerns.

And what about his ego has hindered his game/team?

I never said anything about his ego hindering his game/team. Stick to the post you're responding to. I said that with tons of money and all the attention/fame he'll be receiving, as well as the scrutiny, I'm not sure how you can argue that his decision-making off the field will actually improve.

huuuuh?

Read it again, slowly. It makes perfect sense. I'm saying that the fact that we're having this argument, and neither of us can make a particularly persuasive case compared to the other, is a red flag in itself.

[killerbee99]

Majority of his problems stem from a lack of money, why would an abundance of money create more problems? Is he gonna go out and buy 30 stolen laptops now?

Dude, really just stop and reflect on that line for a sec? Lack of money, resulted in tons of stupid decisions, is that suddenly going to disappear with tons of cash? If Cam was a WR, I would be all over the kid, but not the face of the Washington Redskins with his character flaws, no matter how hard YOU try to brush them aside , they do define you as a person, one mistake, maybe , 2 maybe , 3 maybe, but it goes on and on with this kid, just too much smoke, same bloody mistake we made with Albert. Oh, if he gets the money, he will be motivated to stay out of trouble we see how that went.....I know you love this kid, but on the field perfomance is just one major factor in establishing the overall makeup of this guy, I know he volunteers and does other good things, but so do thousands of other players, so there is nothing unique there.

Perfect example, Adrian Clayborn ,once a projected top ten pick, now mid first due to character concerns , you know his transgression, he punched a cab driver, because the cabbie allegedly called him a name. Again, my point is this CHARACTER does matter, ESPECIALLY for a QB, leader of your team, and there are just too many flags to brush aside and take a huge risk for a 1st round pick, with relatively little experience throwing the ball in a read option system where he only threw 280 pluss attempts against division 1 opponents. Too much to risk for a top ten pick.

[Mahons21]

It's not all true. It's 95% opinion.

I think he expected you to know the difference of opinion and fact, and one would logically assume he was referring to the facts in the article being true. IE Cam's coaches/teammates raving about his work ethic, Cam volunteering with little kids over the summer, and continuing it into the season even though the principal didn't expect that of him.

Newton was a 2nd round pick on most boards until Team Newton riled up the media. Now the MEDIA has taken the bait.

And if you're right it's the MEDIA, and not NFL teams that have boughten into Cam's abilities than he won't be drafted until close to the 2nd round.

---------- Post added February-23rd-2011 at 02:32 PM ----------

Dude, really just stop and reflect on that line for a sec? Lack of money, resulted in tons of stupid decisions, is that suddenly going to disappear with tons of cash? If Cam was a WR, I would be all ove rthe kid, but not the face of the Washington Redskins with his character flaws, no matter how hard YOU try to brush them aside , they do define you as a person, one mistake, maybe , 2 maybe , 3 maybe, but it goes on and on with this kid, just too much smoke, same bloody mistake we made with Albert. Oh, if he gets the money, he will be motivated to stay out of trouble we see how that went.....I know you love this kid, but on the field perfomance is just one major factor in establishing the overall makeup of this guy, I know he volunteers and does other good things, but so do thousands of other players, so there is nothing unique there.

Circumstances dictate character more often than character dictate circumstances, whether or not you want to believe it to be true.

And for the billionth time, just because I don't blow something up that happened two years ago, doesn't mean I'm brushing it aside.

Albert Haynesworth was 26 and stomped on someone's DURING A GAME, Cam was 19 and he bought a stolen laptop (after he lost his to a flood). Not exactly apples to apples is it...

Perfect example, Adrian Clayborn ,once a projected top ten pick, now mid first due to character concerns , you know his transgression, he punched a cab driver, because the cabbie allegedly called him a name. Again, my point is this CHARACTER does matter, ESPECIALLY for a QB, leader of your team, and there are just too many flags to brush aside and take a huge risk for a 1st round pick, with relatively little experience throwing the ball in a read option system where he only threw 280 pluss attempts against division 1 opponents. Too much to risk for a top ten pick.

He was a top ten pick at the end of his Jr. season, he had 63 tackles, 11 sacks and a FF. This year he had 52 tackles, 4 sacks and no FF.

And he didn't put up awe inspiring #'s his first couple seasons. Adrian Clayborn did not drop solely because of character issues despite what you would like to think.

---------- Post added February-23rd-2011 at 02:48 PM ----------

I'm not concerned with Brady's girl troubles, that's different. He didn't break any laws, and who am I to say that he didn't fall in love with Giselle. Different situation. Cooley did something similar (without the baby), and he's a great character guy. Now you're just trying to blur the lines.

I'm not trying to blur the lines, you're trying to brush aside an action that clearly shows poor character because it doesn't help your argument. Why does the legality of an issue matter? What should matter is the context surrounding the issue.

For example:

You have an affair with your best friends girl friend of 20 years. Entirely legal, but extremely poor character.

A starving kid steals an apple because he needs to eat. Not legal, but it doesn't demonstrate anywhere near as poor character as the previous circumstance.

And I've never said I want Big Ben. So that point is fine, and backs up what I'm saying.

So you would much rather a squeaky clean Tebow than Big Ben I assume?

You have no idea where his problems stem from. Someone who is a poor college student doesn't need to do what he did, regardless of money situation. Trust me, I'm a poor college student. One who has never cheated or bought something that was stolen because it was cheap. You realize a decent laptop runs around $200-300 now, right? With some hard work and a ****ing brain, very affordable.

Father accepting money for child to play, and student buying a stolen laptop for cheap... Those problems stem from financial issues, if you don't have financial issues you don't need the money to play nor would you ever buy a stolen laptop when you can just as easily go buy one at best buy.

I never said it was his only option, I just said it was a mistake he made that stemmed from financial problems.

I never said anything about his ego hindering his game/team. Stick to the post you're responding to.

I thought you implied it...

Thanks for reminding me why your posts are blocked out, I'll continue to leave them that way.

I said that with tons of money and all the attention/fame he'll be receiving, as well as the scrutiny, I'm not sure how you can argue that his decision-making off the field will actually improve.

Since I was 19, I've earned a lot more money, I've garnered more attention, no fame unfortunately (though fame doesn't necessarily lead to people making bad decisions), and my decision making has drastically improved.

It's called maturation and the process of becoming an adult. You'll get there one day.

Read it again, slowly. It makes perfect sense. I'm saying that the fact that we're having this argument, and neither of us can make a particularly persuasive case compared to the other, is a red flag in itself.

Obviously it signals a red flag, the red flag that more information is clearly needed before any conclusions can be reached, which has been my point the whole time.

Anyways, as fun as it is telling people they can't talk about someone's character because of a few things they read in the newspaper, I think I'm gonna go on and try to find some talk about football. Have a good one.

[number twenty-eight]

If I was a GM and onwer there is no bloody way I am giving him that much money with all the **** in his background, second round , yes good risk, but no top ten...maybe the Bills will be foolish enough.

I think we see things mostly the same, except for our tolerance for risk. What I'm trying to impress is that I believe, if not for the character concerns, Newton would be #1 with a bullet. Do you agree?

[The Tris]

I think we see things mostly the same, except for our tolerance for risk. What I'm trying to impress is that I believe, if not for the character concerns, Newton would be #1 with a bullet. Do you agree?

Probably. Maybe not in other draft classes, but most likely in this one. Historically, Newton is far from one of the best QB prospects of all time.

Would be interesting to see where Newton would have gone in 2009. Before or after Stafford?

I think he certainly would have gone after Bradford, and most likely Ryan as well.

[Conn]

Yeah...I'm done responding to you, Mahons21, on this topic. Not only are you attempting to put words into my mouth, and imply things from my posts that I never said (Tebow? Hypothetical cheating scenarios? Irrelevant.), to better make your point, but you are fairly condescending. You can't stay on topic or directly address anything I had to say, and you're making excuses left and right for the behavior of a guy whose motives you can't possibly know. "You'll get there someday."

[killerbee99]

I think we see things mostly the same, except for our tolerance for risk. What I'm trying to impress is that I believe, if not for the character concerns, Newton would be #1 with a bullet. Do you agree?

No he would be 1st round lock, for me but not top ten or #1 lock, too much inexperience with passing attempts, would have to sit at least 2 years to get his whole **** straight......If he had the same amount of number of passes Gabbert had or even Bradford he would be surefire top ten pick. If he ahd everything you look for in a QB, accuracy, experience, LEADERSHP, CHARACTER ala LUck then hell yeah he would be No 1 no questions asked, really who would you take Newton or Luck, that alone should answer your questions in him being worthy of a top ten pick. I feel sorry for Carolina fans, the pain they must have felt when luck said he was going back to school. If Cam Newton goes top ten, I will be stunned!!!

Funny thing is, if I was Minny or the Dolphins , I wouldn't mind taking this kid, good value at 12th and 15th picks I think, just because they relly need QB's

---------- Post added February-23rd-2011 at 03:07 PM ----------

Yeah...I'm done responding to you, Mahons21, on this topic. Not only are you attempting to put words into my mouth, and imply things from my posts that I never said (Tebow? Hypothetical cheating scenarios? Irrelevant.), to better make your point, but you are fairly condescending. You can't stay on topic or directly address anything I had to say, and you're making excuses left and right for the behavior of a guy whose motives you can't possibly know. "You'll get there someday."

Yeah, I am done too, I do wish the kid luck though, just too much smoke for me, only God knows what happens when he gets all the ton of cash and his"daddy" and everyone else wants a piece of that action.....

[number twenty-eight]

No he would be 1st round lock, for me but not top ten or #1 lock, too much inexperience with passing attempts, would have to sit at least 2 years to get his whole **** straight......If he had the same amount of number of passes Gabbert had or even Bradford he would be surefire top ten pick. If he ahd everything you look for in a QB, accuracy, experience, LEADERSHP, CHARACTER ala LUck then hell yeah he would be No 1 no questions asked, really who would you take Newton or Luck, that alone should answer your questions in him being worthy of a top ten pick. I feel sorry for Carolina fans, the pain they must have felt when luck said he was going back to school. If Cam Newton goes top ten, I will be stunned!!!.

Right, but this question is assuming his character isn't a negative and Luck isn't in the draft. You wouldn't put Newton #1, despite him showing all the great skills he has in his admittedly fewer attempts?

[Mahons21]

Probably. Maybe not in other draft classes, but most likely in this one. Historically, Newton is far from one of the best QB prospects of all time.

Would be interesting to see where Newton would have gone in 2009. Before or after Stafford?

I think he certainly would have gone after Bradford, and most likely Ryan as well.

I think he'd go after all 3 of those. But I'd be really interested to see how the 1st round of the draft Ryan was in would play out with Newton involved.