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Despite Court Rulings, Creationism Still Taught In Many American Classrooms


Hunter44

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Or reality, for that matter.

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Creationism, IMO, is the result of marketing to man. If the scriptures are indeed based off the word of God, then how could God convey the answers to some of the mysteries of life and expect people of that time to even come close to understanding it? Hey people from thousands of years ago, the Earth and the other planets revolve around the Sun because of gravitational pull. the moon controls the tides because of gravity also, those stars you see are actually light from many, many, many years ago, tiny little things called germs make you sick, we're made up of molecules, etc. etc. All of that would have been over their heads, how would you even convey these things in that time? You have to convey the simplest idea possible for that time. That, IMO, is creationism, a simple explanation meant to help people thousands of years ago understand their world better.

Society has grown out of various religious traditions and ideas, I think it's time we grew out of creationism. I think a greater testament to the power of God is being able to set things up on a very minimal level and allow things to work out the way they have as opposed to directly setting up every single thing.

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Evolution and creation should be left out of the science room only that which you can prove should be taught or you can do things to attempt to prove theories

Viewed through a sufficiently abstract lens, nothing can be proven with 100% certainty. Spending all day questioning reality isn't particularly conducive to accomplishing anything, however. The best we can do is trust the basic information we gather through perception, make inferences based on that information, and do our best to repeatedly test our inferences to make sure that they are sufficiently strong so as to be of practical use to us. That's basically what science is at it's core.

What separates evolution and creationism, then? Simple. Creationism is, for all intents and purposes, currently untestable. We can't confirm anything we infer about it, thus it is not useful to us. Evolution, however, can be tested and has proven capable of withstanding the rigors of objective doubt. As such, we can use it.

Or you could, you know, talk about the actual topic at hand

That would require a minuscule amount of effort. ND stopped trying and started to just phone it in a long time ago.

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If a school wants to teach creationism, thats fine. They need to implement in it a way that doesn't interfere with science. School boards should allow for the basic ideas of creationism to be detailed in world history classes. That is different however from preaching to them. I have to say, I get very annoyed when people say "evolution is just a theory" when they have no idea what it means to be a scientific theory. The very computers we post from are derivatives of scientific theory. I guess it is cool to discount one when it doesn't fit your agenda.

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It's opening a can of worms to me. If you teach christian creationism, why not all other religious forms of creationism? Why not the old native american myths where the earth is on the back of a turtle?

There comes a moment where religion has to move on and accept science, all of it. The world isn't flat. That was once hard to grasp, but it isn't. Now it's accepted. Evolution is real, it's hard to grasp. But eventually it will have to be accepted. Otherwise it's hypocritical every time a young earth creationist gets a flu shot based around the entire premise that a virus has evolved to fight their anti-bodies from the previous year.

Frankly, I've stopped fighting the evolutionary fight. I've learned that it's not my job to educate those who don't want to be educated; living in ignorance is their prerogative. And if that makes me an elitist academic, then I'm damn proud of it.

It wasnt christianity that promoted the idea of a flat world it was secular society Most of the flat earth claims stymy around the time from 1870-920 had to do with idealogical settings over created by struggles over evolution

anti christians were the ones that spread the Myth about the flat earth

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can someone please point to me where that blog says that they are teaching creationism in the classroom? (other than the title, of course)

Otherwise it's hypocritical every time a young earth creationist gets a flu shot based around the entire premise that a virus has evolved to fight their anti-bodies from the previous year.

.

do you think it's possible to believe that creatures do evolve, but not take the position that humans evolved from primates? i think that's the rub for most.

---------- Post added February-13th-2011 at 07:57 AM ----------

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Viewed through a sufficiently abstract lens, nothing can be proven with 100% certainty. Spending all day questioning reality isn't particularly conducive to accomplishing anything, however. The best we can do is trust the basic information we gather through perception, make inferences based on that information, and do our best to repeatedly test our inferences to make sure that they are sufficiently strong so as to be of practical use to us. That's basically what science is at it's core.

What separates evolution and creationism, then? Simple. Creationism is, for all intents and purposes, currently untestable. We can't confirm anything we infer about it, thus it is not useful to us. Evolution, however, can be tested and has proven capable of withstanding the rigors of objective doubt. As such, we can use it.

Creation is depulicated all the time, man is constantly trying to create and when science tries to duplicate a process in nature and brings together all the ingrediants he or she plays the role of God in that experiment.

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do you think it's possible to believe that creatures do evolve, but not take the position that humans evolved from primates? i think that's the rub for most.

---------- Post added February-13th-2011 at 07:57 AM ----------

I thought science established we did NOT evolve from primates?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/15/science/15oblucy.html

http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2009/10/01/Study-Man-did-not-evolve-from-apes/UPI-40881254412291/

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Those are mostly just arguing around most people's misunderstanding of "evolving from" primates. We didn't evolve from the primates around today but our ancestors were primates.

EDIT:

418px-Hominoid_taxonomy_7.svg.png

The Pan genus is chimpanzees and bonobos.

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What do you mean were?...Don't you mean are,as are we?

Our ancestors aren't alive today or I would have said are lol.

I forgot the most damning evidence for our evolution from primates, Chromosome 2:

Clear evidence for the evolution of Homo sapiens from a common ancestor with chimpanzees is the number of chromosomes in human as compared to all other members of Hominidae. All Hominidae with the exception of humans have 24 pairs of chromosomes. Humans have only 23 pairs. Human chromosome 2 is widely accepted to be a result of an end-to-end fusion of two ancestral chromosomes.[11][12]

The evidence for this includes:

* The correspondence of chromosome 2 to two ape chromosomes. The closest human relative, the common chimpanzee, has near-identical DNA sequences to human chromosome 2, but they are found in two separate chromosomes. The same is true of the more distant gorilla and orangutan.[13][14]

* The presence of a vestigial centromere. Normally a chromosome has just one centromere, but in chromosome 2 there are remnants of a second centromere.[15]

* The presence of vestigial telomeres. These are normally found only at the ends of a chromosome, but in chromosome 2 there are additional telomere sequences in the middle.[16]

Chromosome 2 thus presents very strong evidence in favour of the common descent of humans and other apes. According to researcher J. W. IJdo, "We conclude that the locus cloned in cosmids c8.1 and c29B is the relic of an ancient telomere-telomere fusion and marks the point at which two ancestral ape chromosomes fused to give rise to human chromosome 2."[16][/Quote]

Edit: And ya we are primates.

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It wasnt christianity that promoted the idea of a flat world it was secular society Most of the flat earth claims stymy around the time from 1870-920 had to do with idealogical settings over created by struggles over evolution

anti christians were the ones that spread the Myth about the flat earth

I had no idea about this; thanks for the info. I think I partly confused myself with the notion of the earth not being the center of the solar system.

can someone please point to me where that blog says that they are teaching creationism in the classroom? (other than the title, of course)

do you think it's possible to believe that creatures do evolve, but not take the position that humans evolved from primates? i think that's the rub for most.

---------- Post added February-13th-2011 at 07:57 AM ----------

I know you're right; but that doesn't make a difference to them. You can't just pick parts of the bible that you like to follow, and say that others "Don't apply to me." In the same way, you can't just pick parts of science that you like and discard those that don't fit your agenda.

For me, the proof is in the pudding. The bible says God created man in his own image. It's pretty evident to me that that is not the case. Any way you slice it, we look just like chimps. With small exceptions in our skull and our feet and our hair, we're not much different at all. If God was making us, he sure as hell used the primates as a starting point. That's just plain to see.

Edit:

The important thing is to understand that that's okay! Primate doesn't mean inferior; it doesn't mean animal; it doesn't mean uneducated or "unspecial." The term primate is just a random tag made up by scientists that covers animals that look the same and appear similar genetically.

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The important thing is to understand that that's okay! Primate doesn't mean inferior; it doesn't mean animal; it doesn't mean uneducated or "unspecial." The term primate is just a random tag made up by scientists that covers animals that look the same and appear similar genetically.

God I hope not ,though some clearly are :silly:

Anybody have a image of God handy for clarity?

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I had no idea about this; thanks for the info. I think I partly confused myself with the notion of the earth not being the center of the solar system.

I know you're right; but that doesn't make a difference to them. You can't just pick parts of the bible that you like to follow, and say that others "Don't apply to me." In the same way, you can't just pick parts of science that you like and discard those that don't fit your agenda.

i fail to see how accepting that species do evolve but still believing in creation and not accepting that humans evolved from primates is picking and choosing from the Bible, since the whole thing about evolution / adaptation isn't really addressed to my knowledge.

For me, the proof is in the pudding. The bible says God created man in his own image. It's pretty evident to me that that is not the case.

where'd you find a picture of God? :silly:

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i fail to see how accepting that species do evolve but still believing in creation and not accepting that humans evolved from primates is picking and choosing from the Bible, since the whole thing about evolution / adaptation isn't really addressed to my knowledge.

where'd you find a picture of God? :silly:

Ah, I think I explained that wrong. I didn't mean that it was picking and choosing from the bible, but that it was picking and choosing from science. In the same way that I can't embrace certain passage of the bible and renounce some, christians can't renounce certain aspects of science while championing and reaping the benefits of others. You can't only follow the laws you want; you must follow all the laws. Science can be wrong, and it often is, but respecting the scientific process is essential, otherwise you're just being a hypocrite. To me, it's like the same people who trash big government and welfare programs while collecting their welfare checks for months and months.

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Evolution and creation should be left out of the science room only that which you can prove should be taught or you can do things to attempt to prove theories

Are you saying Evolution should not be taught in science class rooms?

Modern Biology requires belief in evolution and natural selection. Half the stuff we learn in Genetics and Population Genetics is based on the principles of natural selection.

Remove evolution and you might as well remove Biology from the curriculum.

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anti christians were the ones that spread the Myth about the flat earth

In actuality, it was mostly Washington Irving (also author of The Headless Horseman), who told a story about Christopher Columbus sailing to prove the world was round and not flat. The myth stuck.

It's a ridiculous notion, of course, because the ancients were well aware that the world was not flat. Any sailor that looked at the horizon knew this, and the Ancient Greeks actually measured the Earth's circumfrence with surprising precision, using only trigonometry and a few measurements.

For me, the proof is in the pudding. The bible says God created man in his own image. It's pretty evident to me that that is not the case.

That's not what "created in God's image" means in Judeo-Christian theology. It has more to do with spriritual qualities, like love and such.

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