Time for Allen and Shanahan to Come Clean

[ikeon]

No one is looking at attitude! The team was blaming the fans last week! The Skins are grasping at straws blaming everyone but themselves. The Skins will improve after the season when the cancers in the locker room can be removed from the team. period. Just looking at the skins taking the field you can see the pain in their eyes. Some of these guys have heart, some are just punching a clock.

[bird_1972]

the fit of personnel to scheme has to be a lot better.

the front office needs to add draft picks by trading some veterans who have some market value (even if not the overinflated picks Shanahan wants to receive!).

but in the end the Redskins need to start doing what smart teams do - namely, GET value in trades, picks and signings.

traditionally, the Redskins have overpaid free agents, made poor draft picks outside of the first round, and failed to resign key players who were ;producing in years past such as Ryan Clark and Antonio Pierce.

We also need to ADD MORE SCOUTS TO OUR FRONT OFFICE.

We can't be expected to find gems in the draft unless we have good, smart, talented scouts to dig up that talent. That would go a long way towards building that foundation this team desperately needs.

[Est.1974]

the front office needs to add draft picks by trading some veterans who have some market value

This is one thing I would really question about our FO because this should clearly have happened LAST offseason.

This season is in danger of being somewhat of a waste. Several vets are a year older, and those who don't fit the schemes we are running will walk for free. Other GM's will know that, why trade for someone who you know will be cut. Does someone like Haynesworth really hold any trade value now ? He may well have been shipped out already...

As a fan, we can see the players who do not fit what we are doing. Any value they had is diminishing before our eyes...

I get the impression the FO didn't realise how bad it was.

Should have been blow up 6 months ago.

[Stophovr6]

I just wish people would admit we were not in rebuild mode going into this season. We are pretty much forced to this coming offseason. Another season wasted trying to get by with one or two big name trades.

[Hollywood1127]

No one is looking at attitude! The team was blaming the fans last week! The Skins are grasping at straws blaming everyone but themselves. The Skins will improve after the season when the cancers in the locker room can be removed from the team. period. Just looking at the skins taking the field you can see the pain in their eyes. Some of these guys have heart, some are just punching a clock.

You have to be kidding me with that post. What cancers are in the locker room? They keep de-activating Haynesworth, but when he plays he shows that he makes a difference. So what cancer are you talking about? The cancer I see is coming from the owner and coaching staff. Why did Shanny pass up on Randy Moss? Why did Shanny de-activate Haynesworth today?

Really? Are the cancers in the locker room or the head office?

[Stophovr6]

This is one thing I would really question about our FO because this should clearly have happened LAST offseason.

This season is in danger of being somewhat of a waste. Several vets are a year older' date=' and those who don't fit the schemes we are running will walk for free. Other GM's will know that, why trade for someone who you know will be cut. Does someone like Haynesworth really hold any trade value now ? He may well have been shipped out already...

[/quote']

We should be trading vets EVERY offseason. Not all of them, but you have to take gambles and try to time a players decline with his trad value to get the best picks possible and bring in youth.

[zoony]

well, it might help if Orakpo and others such as Landry (finally in 2010) are put back at their natural positions and allowed to grow from there.

This couldn't be more incorrect. The only difference in Landry this year is he has a coach holding him accountable in meetings and with his preparation. Ask anyone close to the situation.

Orakpo's "natural" position is a DE. Which he's too small to play in the NFL, as he is a liability against the run. So in the 4-3 all we heard last year is that he shouldn't be used as a LB, because he excels as a pass rusher.

Enter the 3-4, and all we hear all preseason long is how he gets to rush the pass rusher every down and how he'll be sure to have 15 sacks and a pro bowl bid. Well, he's done just about exactly jack ****. Mainly because he's played like dog**** this season. But Redskins nation doesn't want to hear it, because he's a first round draft pick. And we only have a few.

Maybe we need to at least consider... just consider... that there might have been a reason he fell so far in the draft.

[bird_1972]

I wonder what our team would be like if John Ken Cooke still owned it.

Probably a lot better and a lot less dysfunctional.

[MusicCitySkin]

I'd rather get excited about a fresh group of young guys than worrying whether or not this team of old farts can make it to the postseason. Time to give up on these no-talent bums that have done nothing but lose and start over.

[Duckus]

I don't think the problem is Bruce Allen. The only thing I would blame Bruce Allen on is not overriding Shanny. When Bruce Allen saw that Shanny was super ego about his decision making, Bruce should have taken over. Look at all the missed opportunities we missed out on. We passed up on players like Brian Westbrook, Terrell Owens, Randy Moss and signing a former Eagles WR; known as Kevin Curtis. Bruce Allen should have went over Shanny and signed Randy Moss as soon as he became available. McNabb would have had someone tall and deep to throw to. If anything, it's time for Shanny to come clean. But we already know what he is guilty of. He let his personal ego get in the way of his decision making. This could have been a good season if we signed more talented free agents. But I guess this is another one to put in the books of (Redskins misfortune).

I wish Dan Snyder should give ( Marty Schottenheimer) another chance.

Last thing we needed on this team was ****ing Randy Moss or Kevin Curtis.

We need more Anthony Armstrongs. This year is over. Evaluate YOUNG talent. Cutting Galloway was a step in the right direction. We need to keep making move like that, not signing even more over-the-hill players.

[zoony]

I wonder what our team would be like if John Ken Cooke still owned it.

Probably a lot better and a lot less dysfunctional.

I'd say we'd be losers (still), but at least we'd be lovable losers.

[bird_1972]

We should be trading vets EVERY offseason. Not all of them, but you have to take gambles and try to time a players decline with his trad value to get the best picks possible and bring in youth.

Agreed.

The best teams do this year in and year out. It's best to get ahead of the curve rather than constantly behind it (which is what the Skins have done for so many years)

[PlayAction]

Shanahan's teams in Denver were known for great offense undone by poor defense. So, he comes here and blows up the defense so it couldn't support the offense during the inevitable growing pains. I don't have a problem with the approach if he was saying that we were in rebuilding mode. But the McNabb trade cost a 2nd and 4th round pick and indicated that he thought the Skins could be competitive in a 3 year window even without two high picks.

[DjTj]

I'd say we'd be losers (still), but at least we'd be lovable losers.

Norv would probably still be coach. Maybe we'd be like the Chargers - making it to the playoffs several times but falling short.

[bulldog]

the defense was a disaster from Day 1 because the team didn't have a true NT that could play and didn't have an OLB to pair with Orakpo to produce pressure in the 3-4.

pretending that Haynesworth was going to knuckle under and play NT was very naive on Shanahan's part. Kemoeatu and Bryant are simply not capable starting NTs.

on the other side Carter and Alexander are defensive linemen. they are not linebackers.

Troy Aikman, Phil Simms and Jimmy Johnson could see that from the broadcasting booth but evidently it went undiscovered at Redskins Park :mad:

[GoDeep81]

We need a stud D-lineman who actually wants to play and can generate pressure without a blitz.

Hell, we have 2 of them! Orakpo and Haynesworth, but their both being played out of position.. You think AH wouldnt "want" to play if he was playing DE and able to rush the passer? Shanny got him in shape, then waisted him, period! We've got coaches who are fooling themselfs into thinking they can force players to play out of position, and still be competitive!! In the 10 years since Shanny's had ANY success, the games gotten way faster, and Im affraid has passed him by, the same it did Gibbs.. We need fresh blood, young blood, from the coaches on down.. Take a good 5 -6 years to fix this mess if we keep going backwards.. The 3-4 needs to be scrapped NOW, imo, and we'll have 4 or 5 solid positions locked down.. Maybe even more if Lorenzo can play LB in a 4-3.. Carter is a good DE as well. (In a 4-3).. We've got personnel to play a 4-3.. If we went to a 4-3 and concentrated on the offensive line and playmaker positions (in the draft and FA), with McNabb, I think we could be relevant in a year or two tops.. Just my thoughts..

[bird_1972]

I'd say we'd be losers (still), but at least we'd be lovable losers.

I disagree. While his brief time as owner was lackluster, to say the least, I believe he represented at least some level of continuity that would have eventually resulted in a more stable organization.

Snyder has been abysmal at exhibiting management acumen, putting people in the organization in a position to succeed, and creating any real value outside of squeezing every last drop of profit from the Skins balance sheet through sheer marketing muscle (something that's only really a one-time fix). He has demonstrated repeatedly from his inability to hire the right men, to his reliance over nearly a decade on a joke of a GM in Cerrato (even though he was GM in name only for roughly 2 yrs). As an NFL owner and as a businessman, he has been terribly short-sighted and has proven that he is in way over his head.

[D'KanSkinFan]

Seriously, Allen and Shanahan inherited the talent~ they made some smart moves towards rebuilding........ but they never said we were going to the Superbowl nor take the NFC East. I believe that was said by us, The Fans.

[Est.1974]

We should be trading vets EVERY offseason. Not all of them, but you have to take gambles and try to time a players decline with his trad value to get the best picks possible and bring in youth.

I agree. And by not doing so in 2010, Shanny & Co have missed the boat. All that is happening now is we suck as much as ever, and the value of the players we have is going down the pan at a fast rate.

[Hollywood1127]

Thanks (bird_1972) for agreeing with me.

As for trading the vets, we will not get much for them. What teams are going to give us draft picks for vets like Joey Galloway, Carlos Rogers and Reed Doughty? I'm sorry, but those three may be out the job as soon as the season is done. I get the feeling that this coming off-season is going to be a lot bigger for the Redskins than last season. We will probably flood the free agency with veteran releases. Maybe even this time brake a Ripley's World Record. Our whole team is veterans.

Lets get back to topic. Do you think Dan Snyder will give Bruce Allen more say over what happens to the team in 2011? Based on the numerous opportunities that Shanny turned down, do you really want him making the big decisions next season? For example, if Larry Fitzgerald is released from Arizona, do you think Bruce Allen should be given the authority to over ride Shanny and put him on the team? Or lets be crazy and say Titans want to Haynesworth and offer us Randy Moss; should Bruce Allen be given the authority to make it happen?

Cause I truely believe that if Bruce Allen had signed Randy Moss to the team; our Monday Night game against Eagles, would have been better for us. With a WR like Randy Moss and a QB like McNabb, we would have been able to answer back to the Eagles and their shoot out slaughter.

[MonkFan8]

This couldn't be more incorrect. The only difference in Landry this year is he has a coach holding him accountable in meetings and with his preparation. Ask anyone close to the situation.

Orakpo's "natural" position is a DE. Which he's too small to play in the NFL, as he is a liability against the run. So in the 4-3 all we heard last year is that he shouldn't be used as a LB, because he excels as a pass rusher.

Enter the 3-4, and all we hear all preseason long is how he gets to rush the pass rusher every down and how he'll be sure to have 15 sacks and a pro bowl bid. Well, he's done just about exactly jack ****. Mainly because he's played like dog**** this season. But Redskins nation doesn't want to hear it, because he's a first round draft pick. And we only have a few.

Maybe we need to at least consider... just consider... that there might have been a reason he fell so far in the draft.

Thank you, zoony. I was afraid I had gone crazy.

The amount of reverence on this board for Orakpo is absolutely crazy. Don't get me wrong, I think he'll be a fine player in this league, but right now he's an undersized player relying solely on a single move to get a few sacks. You'd think he was some game changing force with the way people talk about him.

On the thread topic, a good start would be to trade a player like Cooley to recoup some picks. As much as it would hurt, the good teams in the NFL recognize when a player is at their maximum potential and get the most out of them. Especially given that we have a capable backup already in place.

[Metalhead]

well, it might help if Orakpo and others such as Landry (finally in 2010) are put back at their natural positions and allowed to grow from there.

the Redskins have arbitrarily decided to change the position of 8 or 9 guys who play in the defensive front seven and it has created chaos and a ton of missed assignments.

the problems here are much more egregious on defense because there is SOME talent on that side of the ball to work with, if the coaching staff uses any degree of sanity.

on offense, there really is nothing other than a still learning Trent Williams at LT.

all of the other players are either 30 years old or players with limited upside.

Right on point, bulldog. I wish I had some more points to add, but you covered it. I do think the coaches need to swallow their pride and revert back to the 4-3.

[Buck812]

It cant be said any better than this. I just hope we start with a QB to build around.

[Warhead36]

Couldn't have said it better myself bulldog.

[Duckus]

Lets get back to topic. Do you think Dan Snyder will give Bruce Allen more say over what happens to the team in 2011? Based on the numerous opportunities that Shanny turned down, do you really want him making the big decisions next season? For example, if Larry Fitzgerald is released from Arizona, do you think Bruce Allen should be given the authority to over ride Shanny and put him on the team? Or lets be crazy and say Titans want to Haynesworth and offer us Randy Moss; should Bruce Allen be given the authority to make it happen?

Cause I truely believe that if Bruce Allen had signed Randy Moss to the team; our Monday Night game against Eagles, would have been better for us. With a WR like Randy Moss and a QB like McNabb, we would have been able to answer back to the Eagles and their shoot out slaughter.

#1 - Why do so many people think Allen was not part of the process in turning down Moss and other opportunities? Why do you think that was just Shanahan's call?

#2 - What is this obsession with so many fans and Moss? Really. I just don't ****ing get it. The last thing we need is an old veteran WR on this team. We need to be evaluating young talent and gathering building pieces for the future. Not Randy Moss. Anyone but him.