Time for Allen and Shanahan to Come Clean

[SkinsHokieFan]

This is looking more and more like a wasted season. Almost like the Wizards of 2009-2010 but we didn't make any trades to get extra prospects/picks. The pain should have been felt this year

We may have another painful season next year if we do go ahead and just bottom out

[skins island connection]

I am for Shanny and Allen to get things turned around, and like everyone else, we were hoping for one of those turnaround seasons; well, didn't happen that way.

BUT, I DO question Kyle's abilities and habits, and even though Mike has 2 rings, I am not sold on the fact of it being so much his skills as much as a weak league overall and a few good players already on the Broncos team. {see John Elway}.

If rebuilding is in the works, I will not have any expectations for at least 3 years, ESPECIALLY if Hasless {Haslett to others} is still DC...

[bulldog]

well, you can't really rebuild on a solid foundation without having picks. and the Redskins only have 2 picks in the first 100 selections.

other teams like NE and the Eagles regularly go into the draft with multiple picks in each of the early to mid rounds. In fact this year NE has an unbelievable number of early picks.

unless Bruce Allen turns out to be another Scott Pioli or Bill Polian in short order, I don't see 2 picks in the top 100 plus 4 picks in the #6/#7 rounds being enough.

[GaryGreenMonk]

It's not Mike Shanahan's fault, nor is Bruce Allen to blame. They inherited this mess and they are slowly but surely fixing what's wrong with this team.

I agree with you to a point.. MS and BA didnt' have a lot to work wiht this season with the restricted status of free agents and all.

HOWEVER...

The way they treated the RB position this year was a mess... the way they treated Haynesworth was and is a mess... starting Heyer and Kemo is insane...

I do like some things they did... giving Banks a chance ( a lot of teams would not have done that) and at least realizing early that LJ wasn't going to get it done and bringing up Keiland and Torain. but for another however... it scares me that through all of training camp.. no one could recognize that LJ and WP were not going to cut it and it certainly would have helped to start fixing that situation as early as possible, not when the regular season already was in process.

I just don't think there's anyone in this organization that is a great eye for talent. BA is a money management guy... Money isn't the Skins problem... Talent is. We needed a Scott Pioli or Bill Parcells type of team builder as a GM.

P.s... I'd like to add that I agree with everything Bulldog said as well. Just with the caveot that i'm not sure this staff has someone that can build a championship team from scratch.

[bulldog]

Bruce Allen is in reality the 'Assistant GM' and Shanahan is the real 'GM'............. that may be the real problem at hand

[JimmyMac814]

dan snyder has ruined this organization, it a way similar to peter angelos, that man has destroyed the orioles and dan snyder is a virus, and he should not own the washington redskins, we show no heart during this game, i see some of the worst teams in the nfl but they go out and show that they want to win. THEY WANT TO WIN AND WE DONT. we dont seem to care WE CANNOT GO OUT THERE AND GIVE UP 31 POINTS!!!!! and score 7! are you kidding me? this is such trash. i am a die hard fan and i have poured my heart and soul and tons of money buying tickets, jerseys, clothes, posters, all sorts of redskins apparel and they repay us by doing this. and its not just this year its not just this game, snyder has taken the passion out of this organization. the redskins are the most loyal fans and we stick with our guys through everything, and we have to be so tough skinned to put up with everything we get from everyone else and WE DO. i watch these attrocious games every sunday and cheer for them until the very end but goodness gracious they make it tough when they dont even look like they want to win. I WANT SOMETHING BACK, I WANT ANSWERS, WHAT IS GOING ON??? i demand answers, i demand that our team shows up and wants to win EVERY SUNDAY.

[HailGreen28]

McNabb came cheap as a stop-gap. He's the guy who moved forward on signing the contract that had been on the table for months. He's not the future, but he'll get us competitive more quickly.

Anyone who comes in and shows flashes will hang around (Banks, Armstrong)...but, until you fill a slot with someone better, you've gotta play somebody.

Assuming we can't trade him, if we cut McNabb after NEXT season, we aren't on the hook for $12-13 million per year, are we?

[bulldog]

well, you might as well cover your eyes. because with 4 games left, it seems as if the Redskins are going to be challenged to win another game. 3 of the remaining contests are against winning teams that are likely to be in the playoffs and the fourth is Dallas and we all know how well the Skins usually play in Dallas.

So, which games do you put a W down for us? Hard to pick a game right now.

I think we will win one.

But that will put our record for the second half of the season at 2-6.

Same record as Jim Zorn.

[IHOPSkins]

...... I WANT SOMETHING BACK, I WANT ANSWERS, WHAT IS GOING ON??? i demand answers, i demand that our team shows up and wants to win EVERY SUNDAY.

I would like an appology........We do deserve better than getting trounced by divisional rivals

Only Gibb's masterful ability to motivate got us any credibility in the last Decade

[Rodriggo]

while I agree that you can't rebuild in one year, this regime DOES bear responsibility for the moves THEY made.

Absolutely. Two huge moves this offseason by this front office have been colossal failures. The rehabilitation of Haynesworth and the McNabb experiment both a waste of time and possible draft picks.

The hubris and complete lack of vision in Shanahan's handling of both was extremely alarming. At least with Haynesworth it was a two-way street but with McNabb?!?! Shanahan steered the ship right into the middle of that *********.

[Seabee1973]

I don't think the problem is Bruce Allen. The only thing I would blame Bruce Allen on is not overriding Shanny. When Bruce Allen saw that Shanny was super ego about his decision making, Bruce should have taken over. Look at all the missed opportunities we missed out on. We passed up on players like Brian Westbrook, Terrell Owens, Randy Moss and signing a former Eagles WR; known as Kevin Curtis. Bruce Allen should have went over Shanny and signed Randy Moss as soon as he became available. McNabb would have had someone tall and deep to throw to. If anything, it's time for Shanny to come clean. But we already know what he is guilty of. He let his personal ego get in the way of his decision making. This could have been a good season if we signed more talented free agents. But I guess this is another one to put in the books of (Redskins misfortune).

I wish Dan Snyder should give ( Marty Schottenheimer) another chance.

Randy Moss is not teh answer right now there is a reason the pats fleeced the vikings out of a third rounder for him and the Titans are now what 1-4 with him.

[bulldog]

The Redskins were definitely outcoached in a number of games this season.

Against the Eagles at Fedex London Fletcher noted after the game that Philly audibled to exactly the right plays to match the defensive alignments throughout the game and that in large part accounted for the big plays.

What does that really mean? That the Eagles did a great job of scouting and breaking down the Redskins on both sides of the ball and being ready to exploit their weaknesses.

Meanwhile, the Redskins in that game stood around on the field and the sideline for 3 quarters as if they needed new batteries :laugh:

[Mr. Blitz]

Bruce Allen is in reality the 'Assistant GM' and Shanahan is the real 'GM'............. that may be the real problem at hand

Amen....... brother!:logo:

[Seabee1973]

Sad to say, we had that chance with Greg Williams and Dan Snyder blew it, by giving the job to Jim Zorn. Look how it resulted. One 8-8 season and a 4-12 season. So we missed out of giving an opportunity to a coordinator. Sad to say Greg Williams got a superbowl ring when he went with the New Orleans Saints. Sad aint it, we get rid of the defensive coordinator that was suppose to get the HC job and he goes with another team to get a superbowl ring. That was clearly put on Dan Snyder and nobody else.

I wonder what our team would be like if John Ken Cooke still owned it.

He went as a defesnive coordinater to get his ring something he didnt do here this was after being fired by the jags . If he was so good dont you think he would have gotten another HC job by now?

[@DCGoldPants]

Personally, I want to see Allen and Shanny in front of the cameras tomorrow to address the issues that reflect poorly on his coaching staff. Play Calling, Fundamentals, etc. Then I want them to talk about process, and it doesn't need to be in detailed terms.

Right now the biggest foe this organization has is fan apathy. After the Eagles game is was anger. Now its like watching Benny Hill sometimes.

The play calling is predictable and doesn't seem to change based on the other teams strengths and weaknesses. Is that because our lack of talent locks us into that, or is it poor game planning?

Long story short....this team needs a Leonsis moment where they admit things are great, and it's going to take awhile.

That means going against what a Larry Michael has been saying for years on radio or TV.

[Rodriggo]

The Redskins were definitely outcoached in a number of games this season.

It showed against the Colts when they weren't ready for their "no-huddle" offense, you know the one they've been running for about a decade now.

[bulldog]

The Redskins since the start of the second half of the season have looked remarkably similar to the first Zorn team in 2008.

The team is 1-3 and seems to be making every key mistake to lose close games while throwing in that blowout loss every third or fourth game.

Penalties, poor execution by the qb, an offensive line in disarray, etc.

It's beginning to look like Christmas

[whitejimmy]

We all see that this Redskins' team is the least talented in the NFC East by quite a wide margin.

The offensive and defensive lines are not competitive.

There are no backs or receivers that scare anyone - most have been acquired on waivers or culled from other teams' practice squads.

The quarterback is 34 and has started to throw a lot of picks. There is no backup with any real talent or upside. In fact both backups are 30.

Two or three decent players, Rogers and McIntosh, are free agents.

This team needs a COMPLETE REBUILD FROM THE FOUNDATION UP.

Use Orakpo, Landry, Trent Williams, Banks, and some others as part of the rebuild.

But Allen and Shanahan have to admit where we are.

Because otherwise the danger is to go into the offseason of 2011 with the mentality that a few free agent signings and draft picks will be enough to put this team in the argument.

One offseason WON'T rebuild this. Signing any more 30 year old players is nothing but counterproductive to any kind of long-term growth.

It's going to take time, and it's really time that the folks in charge admit that based on what we see on the field each Sunday.

As an aside - we can be upset over the outcome of this particular game against NY, but I think we all knew the truth several weeks ago when this club lost in St. Louis and then in Detroit and was manhandled up front in both contests.

Any venting here based on the outcome of the Giants game are the same discussion points in a dissection of any of these other losses, and I daresay another others to come in the final 4 weeks

I think Shanahan and Allen are about 9 months ahead of you. They ARE rebuilding from the ground up. What is it they need to come clean about? They didn't pull out all the stops in a desperate attempt to win it all in 2010. They brought in older veterans (Joey Galloway, Vonnie Holiday) as stop-gap players who would show the younger players how to be professionals. If they really thought they were only a piece or two away, they would have pursued Terrell Owens or Randy Moss, not develop young talent like Anthony Armstrong, Brandon Banks, etc.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

the defense has more building blocks than the offense does. landry, orakpo, carriker, hall are all impactful starts for a 3-4 defense. we have no NT, no ILBs, we're gonna need another corner and im still not sure moore is our FS, and perhaps one more OLB, alexander is way too slow IMO.

the offense is pretty struggling right now. i like williams, f davis, j davis, banks and armstrong. we still need a legit #1 receiver and we can move moss to the slot since hes getting older. but we need oline badly. i can see at times when the oline works and the holes are there for the run game but it just isnt consistent enough.

we just need a ton of stuff and its frankly so overwhelming its tough to even pinpoint where one issue is, due to the fact that theres so many.

---------- Post added December-5th-2010 at 08:13 PM ----------

The Redskins since the start of the second half of the season have looked remarkably similar to the first Zorn team in 2008.

The team is 1-3 and seems to be making every key mistake to lose close games while throwing in that blowout loss every third or fourth game.

Penalties, poor execution by the qb, an offensive line in disarray, etc.

It's beginning to look like Christmas

i was thinking that same thing. we had a very zorn esque start to the season, eeking out some close wins against good teams, and now its like everyone has figured us out. all the defensive takeaways are gone, the boneheaded plays on defense are piling up, mcnabb played maybe his worst game today, the oline was awful all around today (thanks again stephon for your amazing weekly contribution) and just everything about us seems deflated.

zorn flashbacks are not something im a fan of.

[playoffsplz]

I think this team is worst than last year. I really do. I know a lot people would argue against that, since we have a better record, but I'm one of those people that look at how a team is winning/losing over wins and losses. We've had a lot of things go are way to even make it to 5 wins, and I know that's part of football, but that doesn't make you a good team. Are O line, D line, RB, and WR positions are about the same as last year talent wise. As much as I would like too, I can't even argue that the QB position was much an upgrade ( although there is very few QB's that could play without a run game or offensive line).

I believe we tried to correct some things on both sides of the line, but obviously that didn't work out in any way, shape, or form. We brought it too many "maybes" and not one of them worked out, aside from Banks. Most of guys we brought in we're exactly what the league thought they were ( injury ridden, old, busts, etc)

The biggest mystery to me was the RB position, which everyone and their mom questioned before the season. That turned out to be as disastrous as some predicted, which surprises me coming from Shanahan.

This team was never built to win now, and won't be winning anytime in the near future. How many draft picks do we have over the next 2 years?

[GaryGreenMonk]

I think Shanahan and Allen are about 9 months ahead of you. They ARE rebuilding from the ground up. What is it they need to come clean about? They didn't pull out all the stops in a desperate attempt to win it all in 2010. They brought in older veterans (Joey Galloway, Vonnie Holiday) as stop-gap players who would show the younger players how to be professionals. If they really thought they were only a piece or two away, they would have pursued Terrell Owens or Randy Moss, not develop young talent like Anthony Armstrong, Brandon Banks, etc.

First.. Anthony Armstrong will be 28 next year. He's the same age as Vincent Jackson and Braylon Edwards.

Second, I realize the restrictions on this year.. old vets were pretty much all you could get via FA, but that doesn't excuse how they approached the RB position or Haynesworth.

Why did it take until the 3rd game of the season to finally cut LJ and realize he's just not good?? After seeing him day after day after day in mini-camps and pre-season? As a coaching staff.. how did you not realize he sucked early enough to get some young guys ready to go from the start?

I'll give them a thumbs up for giving Banks a shot.. a lot of staffs in the NFL wouldn't have looked twice at Banks.

But there's a lot of things that just really makes me shake my head in confusion with this coaching staff... Heyer, Haynesworth Situation, RB situation, Galloway, Roydell Williams, Kareem Moore ( they thought he was going to be an all-star in camp) he's sucked most of the season, .. just a lot.

It takes a just about every facet of the game, including coaching, to suck as bad as they have the last 3 weeks. If Vince Young hadn't gotten hurt, they would have pancaked us too.

[whitejimmy]

First.. Anthony Armstrong will be 28 next year. He's the same age as Vincent Jackson and Braylon Edwards.

Second, I realize the restrictions on this year.. old vets were pretty much all you could get via FA, but that doesn't excuse how they approached the RB position or Haynesworth.

Why did it take until the 3rd game of the season to finally cut LJ and realize he's just not good?? After seeing him day after day after day in mini-camps and pre-season? As a coaching staff.. how did you not realize he sucked early enough to get some young guys ready to go from the start?

I'll give them a thumbs up for giving Banks a shot.. a lot of staffs in the NFL wouldn't have looked twice at Banks.

But there's a lot of things that just really makes me shake my head in confusion with this coaching staff... Heyer, Haynesworth Situation, RB situation, Galloway, Roydell Williams, Kareem Moore ( they thought he was going to be an all-star in camp) he's sucked most of the season, .. just a lot.

It takes a just about every facet of the game, including coaching, to suck as bad as they have the last 3 weeks. If Vince Young hadn't gotten hurt, they would have pancaked us too.

Good points. Yes, Armstrong isn't young, but beating the bushes to find that guy is not what a team does that thinks they are one piece away. The Vikings move to acquire Moss is a win-now move.

I think the Haynesworth situation is another example of building for the long term. The FO is trying to shape the character of the team. They want hard working, professional players (like Vonnie Holiday, Joey Galloway). Fat Albert didn't display those qualities, so they kept benching him. Message sent. If the Skins felt they desperately had to win today, they wouldn't have deactivated him.

For the RBs, I'm not sure of your point, but the FO approach isn't surprising. This offense doesn't put a high premium on stud backs. They can make thousand-yard rushers out of undrafted players.

In short, I like th FO plan, but I worry about their ability to scout talent. Bruce Allen is not known to have a keep eye for talent and Shanny misses often with free agents.

[GaryGreenMonk]

Personally, I want to see Allen and Shanny in front of the cameras tomorrow to address the issues that reflect poorly on his coaching staff. Play Calling, Fundamentals, etc. Then I want them to talk about process, and it doesn't need to be in detailed terms.

Right now the biggest foe this organization has is fan apathy. After the Eagles game is was anger. Now its like watching Benny Hill sometimes.

The play calling is predictable and doesn't seem to change based on the other teams strengths and weaknesses. Is that because our lack of talent locks us into that, or is it poor game planning?

Long story short....this team needs a Leonsis moment where they admit things are great, and it's going to take awhile.

That means going against what a Larry Michael has been saying for years on radio or TV.

I certainly am interested in how MS approaches this press conference.

In the Philly game, he played it off like those things happen, they were on fire and we need to respond.

Now we've gotten blown out twice in 3 weeks.. and honestly.. the Titans might have blown us out if VY hadn't gotten hurt.

If he keeps spouting that kind of thing.. it's starting to get insulting to fans intelligence. He needs to own up to the sucking and start to talk about how they are going to fix it.

[Drew_Fl]

well said sir. i was optimistic at the start of the season, but once the Detroit game happened and we lost both trench battles i saw the writing on the wall. yea it's painful, but at the same time it's hard to get much worse.

[Seabee1973]

The problem with rebuilding through the draft is do you trust this group to make the right picks? Perry Riley, Eric Cook, Dennis Morris, and Terrance Austin were and are wasted picks. So more picks does what for us exactly. So we go back to free agency where we get the other teams discards. The future is bleak. I'm getting to the point of just giving up on this franchise, embarrassment after embarrassment kinda does that for ya. Our D is so slow our O is pathetic and our front office lacks the ability to evaluate talent. I am just so disgusted with the whole damn franchise.

A lot of times draft picks sit the bench for a few seasons before becomeing starters if one or 2 becomes bonifide starters down the road its definatly a good draft