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MSNBC: No pay, no spray: Firefighters let home burn

Old Bay

By Old Bay
in The Tailgate

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Bang

Bang

Posted
Posted
They will have to pay unless there is a mandate/exclusion in the policy since they sold a policy in a area not covered by standard fire services.

The lack of a county fire tax is rather odd DC,but ya get the govt ya vote for.

anyone else find it curious that no one let the dogs out with a fire that started outside the house?

added

Cranick has received emergency money to cover immediate costs and the insurance will cover all damage and property losses, his son, Todd, told local media.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39535911/ns/us_news-life/

Pay up Bang ;)

added

interesting stat ,85% of the fires they respond to are outside the city

the fee policy has been in place for 20 yrs

When I get to my bottom dollar, I'll let you know. :D

I'm very surprised that the Insurance company didn't call into account that he had not paid his fee, and thus had not adequately protected his home.

In this case, I'm very glad I was wrong.

I also agree with the question of why no one let the dogs out. At the least, open the door, they'll find it.

~Bang

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twa

twa

Posted
Posted
Wow, twa, after reading that post I almost thought that government was some non-human organization, that wasn't actually made up of actual people (civil servants) that have a calling to serve one another, I almost thought for a moment that those fire departments weren't manned by actual human beings. Way to pretend that human beings aren't government, your social compartmentalization is actually pretty scary.

I wonder if those fire fighters standing watching that house burn to the ground said to themselves, "I am the government and as such my humanity no longer applies to the decisions I make."

Wow, so you don't think that God's answer to Able's question "Am I my brother's keeper" was anything but a resounding "YES! Yes you are."

I wonder how many of the firemen who responded go to church, in Tennessee it probably isn't wrong to assume that the answer is more than a few.

Ahh but wasn't it Jesus who said that we should love our neighbors as ourselves? It's not about "requiring others" it's about relizing that we are responsible for others. You're trying to flip it around in order to allow people to ignore others in need, and that's just sad.

:)

I like how you have no trouble requiring or judging others response to need....care to tell me how many $75 fees you have paid to protect the other homes in the area since you became aware of the need?...or is your condemnation for others inaction payment enough to satisfy your liability?

Civil servants are bound by civil law,to attempt to mandate Jesus's charge to his people to all would be counter to his teaching unless it is reflected in law imo

As far as Keeper, ya might look more closely at what a keeper is

You have a fair point as far as any Christian responders,yet seemingly overlook that they were not the ones that decided not to respond until later,it was the chief and mayor.

anyone know the stage of the fire once they got to the scene?

Would their individual effort w/o the pumper truck been of any use?

Would it be the Christian thing to do to hijack the truck and disobey orders in your mind?:evilg:

a parting thought from another

Jesus preached that people must do things on their own, never did he or his disciples try to force anyone follow his teachings. There is no lesson in charity if a person is forced to be charitable, Jesus understood that.

His teachings are metaphors, trying to relate how a person should treat others. Like all his teachings, a person must decide for themselves what path they choose to follow and how they choose to live up to his examples.

Equally important, Jesus understood the different between the relationship a person has with the government and God when he said, "Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's." Charity to another person is given unto God by obeying the words of Christ.

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AsburySkinsFan

AsburySkinsFan

Posted
Posted
:)

I like how you have no trouble requiring or judging others response to need....care to tell me how many $75 fees you have paid to protect the other homes in the area since you became aware of the need?...or is your condemnation for others inaction payment enough to satisfy your liability?

LOL, you're attempt to flip this onto me is simply laughable to the extreme, I mean this has to rank with some of the all time fails in ES.

Civil servants are bound by civil law,to attempt to mandate Jesus's charge to his people to all would be counter to his teaching unless it is reflected in law imo

Ahh the key in your statement is the "imo". Jesus' teachings raise love above law in every case. Never once does Jesus sit back and say, "Oh well if the law doesn't allow you to show compassion for someone then I guess you can't then, my bad."

As far as Keeper, ya might look more closely at what a keeper is

You have a fair point as far as any Christian responders,yet seemingly overlook that they were not the ones that decided not to respond until later,it was the chief and mayor.

Oh so I wonder if the chief and mayor go to church. What's more is that sooner or later those firemen have to look their chief in the eye and say "Chief, you're wrong."

Would it be the Christian thing to do to hijack the truck and disobey orders in your mind?:evilg:

The Christian thing to do would be to show compassion to a person in need, if that means disobeying orders then so be it.

Jesus preached that people must do things on their own, never did he or his disciples try to force anyone follow his teachings. There is no lesson in charity if a person is forced to be charitable, Jesus understood that.

Are you kidding, charity is part of the Christian life, it is who Christians are. If a Christian has not love then that person cannot rightly call themselves a Christian. "Be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect." That's a command, "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another." Those are not options, those are commandments.

His teachings are metaphors, trying to relate how a person should treat others. Like all his teachings, a person must decide for themselves what path they choose to follow and how they choose to live up to his examples.

Examples? Funny how you think commandments are "examples". That does explain some things though.

Equally important, Jesus understood the different between the relationship a person has with the government and God when he said, "Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's." Charity to another person is given unto God by obeying the words of Christ.

Oh my goodness, you're going to take a passage about Jesus outing the Pharisees keeping idolatrous coins and make it an excuse to allow terrible policy to prevent showing compassion to a neighbor!? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I guess that's another example or metaphor that isn't really a commandment to his followers.

I do love the way that you allow God's commandment to love our neighbor as ourselves to die the death of a thousand qualifications.

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twa

twa

Posted
Posted
not covered and not responsible is one thing.

showing up with marshmallows and sticks to watch is another.

That's certainly fair, however they would have not showed up at all if the neighbor wasn't covered..

ASF unless ya go the voluntary route of sell all that you have,everything else is a compromise ain't it?...voluntarily being operative..:)

I will gladly answer to God for my choices in life...as we all will imo

added

Unless you are proposing a federal tax to provide fire service there it is really not my place to impose my beliefs on them is it?

What does the bible say to freedom and responsibility?

Is it my Christian duty to force them to pay for fire coverage..or even to force others to provide it at their expense.?

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Thiebear

Thiebear

Posted
Posted

TWA i refer you to the essential services poll:

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?335073-Services-Provided-for-with-taxes

What did you pick?

Fire/Rescue/Police seem to have been picked by ALL...

I work till July for Free: I expect the VERY basic.

Fire/Rescue/Police are the barest of basic...

Could we not bring up: guy lives in the desert 300miles from a cactus as an example.

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twa

twa

Posted
Posted
TWA i refer you to the essential services poll:

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?335073-Services-Provided-for-with-taxes

What did you pick?

Fire/Rescue/Police seem to have been picked by ALL...

I work till July for Free: I expect the VERY basic.

Fire/Rescue/Police are the barest of basic...

Could we not bring up: guy lives in the desert 300miles from a cactus as an example.

I did not do your poll, though I agree Fire/Rescue/Police are basics that communities SHOULD fund through taxes.(mine certainly does,as well as extra I do myself)

Do I think I should require some other community to do so?...NO

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Thiebear

Thiebear

Posted
Posted
I did not do your poll, though I agree Fire/Rescue/Police are basics that communities SHOULD fund through taxes.(mine certainly does,as well as extra I do myself)

Do I think I should require some other community to do so?...NO

Do you see a problem with your logic?

You agree its Basic

You don't agree people should 'receive' it.

you didn't agree it was optional or Fireman with benefits... "Basic" means something.

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Drew_Fl

Drew_Fl

Posted
Posted

i love all the people that say that if i have no sympathy for the guy i must be some "Right wing/Republican/Conservative".

How about the fact that this guy didn't pay the fee, under-insured his home, and still made the dumb decision to have an open burn on his property??? how do i feel sorry for that???

i'm gonna feel sorry for people who's homes burn down that didn't do stupid things like this, not idiots who bring it on themselves.

and how dare you guys for bashing the fire department. they have orders and jurisdictions, just like the police and military and i guarantee you they would've been fired if they disobeyed regulations. if you wanna be pissed off, get mad at the governing body, not the actual men. it's easy to say you would have put out that idiots fire, because your family doesn't depend on your hypothetical firefighting income.

if you were in their shoes, would you sacrifice your job EVERYTIME a resident called and didn't pay the fee for you to put out the fire??? if you have a wife and kids at home, i bet your job comes before some idiot's house. i do feel bad for the pets though. they deserved a much better fate.

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Koala

Koala

Posted
Posted

Holy ****, you have to pay fee to get firefighting services? Excuse me, what the **** exactly is my tax money for???? Unbelievable, shameful really, government has no become completely incompetent. New rule for government: if you cant pay for basic services such as firefighting, then you have no right to collect and taxes until you learn how to budget like proper adults.

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Koala

Koala

Posted
Posted

Stadium armory -- hospitals are private. And (utnil recently), healthcare was not a basic governmental service. Firefighting is, or should be. What's next, police services? Am i gonna have to pay a fee for police, and if I dont, theyll just sit back and watch me get robbed? Tough luck buddy, we were busy spending your tax money on perks for the mayor, shoulda paid your fee!

How bout this -- if you're not gonna provide me with basic services, than I want a refund of my tax, God knows what the **** your're doing with it.

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Thiebear

Thiebear

Posted
Posted
I did not do your poll, though I agree Fire/Rescue/Police are basics that communities SHOULD fund through taxes.(mine certainly does,as well as extra I do myself)

Do I think I should require some other community to do so?...NO

Go ahead and do the poll. I know its hard now you've painted yourself in a corner, but it will burn a few calories as you struggle to stay inside your lines.

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twa

twa

Posted
Posted
Go ahead and do the poll. I know its hard now you've painted yourself in a corner, but it will burn a few calories as you struggle to stay inside your lines.

It is easy enough,your taxes should fund whatever services you are willing to vote for and fund.(your poll is too general,which is why I didn't bother)

Many services are done at the city /county level(such as fire/police/EMS) and what one city will fund is obviously different than another.

I don't see a corner here

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twa

twa

Posted
Posted

Koala, the should be is certainly the issue.:)

This county obviously does not wish to fund it,nor do the residents(or enough of them) of that area.

Where you live and the services available can vary greatly,you get the communities ya make....fire and police are community based and dependent on that community to support and pay for.

The feds and states offer grants to help,but it is not their responsibility imo.

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AsburySkinsFan

AsburySkinsFan

Posted
Posted

Last night this was reported on the local news, and there were eyewitnesses who said that there were people at the scene of the fire with checkbooks and cash out to pay the $75 and the department refused it. It also appears that the firefighters have been calling the family to apologize that they were following the orders of their chief. At least someone knew it was wrong to let their house burn.

As for the dogs inside, it said that the man at the house started a fire in a barrel then took a shower and when he got out of the shower it had spread to the shed, he went to put the fire out with a hose but it got to the house, he then tried to call the fire department and they declined to come out because the fee wasn't paid. Sometimes people need to come before policy, what's more is that if they had responded to the initial call then they wouldn't have had to respond the subsequent house fires that it started. Classic bureaucracy getting in the way of helping people.

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mattsb84

mattsb84

Posted
Posted

Why would you leave a fire unsupervised in close proximity to a shed? Seems really dumb. Especially when you have past issues with out of control fires, that have been documented by the fire dept.

I don't really like the idea of having to pay an annual fee for the fire dept, but if it's not already taken from taxes, i guess it makes sense. Is this normal for rural areas? Despite that fact that I think the homeowner is somewhat stupid for leaving a fire unsupervised, the firefighters probably should have put the fire out, and then have the home owners pay the fee + some sort of penalty (kind of like how car insurance companies do it).

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