The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[StillUnknown]

 

A few things...

I agree that there is a not a can't miss pick, but I guess my biggest issue with your previous post was that you sounded very sure of Len. Not trying to be argumentative at all, but you said that "when we have Seraphin starting for an injured Nene at center once Okfaor is gone we will regret not having drafted Alex Len." I know I am cherry picking, but I can honestly see plenty of situations where we would not regret passing on him at all.

 

I just expect a certain level of production from a big man that supposedly has that much talent. There were a lot of games where he was invisible, and when there is nobody he is playing against matches his physical stature, you should put up numbers just by overmatching your opponent, regardless of whether plays are being run for you or not.

 

And as for Drummond, I get where you are coming from, but it seemed like even at UConn, Drummond would do a few things a game that made you say "wow." But regardless, even if the team situations are similar, just because Drummond was a success does not mean Len will be. I get what you are saying about the situations, but it is hard for me to imagine that the production will correlate.

 

As far as dominating a game, I saw Porter do that more than anybody else in the draft. He put the team on his back a lot this year, and had some really strong games, often in big games. He would be my pick for a few reasons if he is there. I share your concerns about Bennett, but honestly, if it came down to it, I would take him before Len as well.

 

Porter did dominate.  He also played pretty badly in the two biggest games at the end of his college career.  

> 

 

 

 

Would you rather have Jan Vesely + Otto Porter

 

or

 

Derrick Williams + #9 pick

 

In my opinion, that depends on what we can get with that #9 pick. If we can get Len, then I'd definitely take the later. If its DW and say Zeller vs Vesely and Porter, I'd stick with Vesely and Porter.

 

Yea, it's all dependant on that 9th pick.  I'd assume that either Len or Zeller would be there....however, if both are gone, and we're stuck with Williams and Steven Adams, I'd be pissed. 

 

 

If instead of DW, we could get Monroe I'd be a lot more excited. I think Monroe would be a much better trade and would help us solidify the front court more. But getting him would be dependent on re-signing Webster or another similar player. 

 

Getting Monroe would be dependent on Detroit's GM consuming large amounts of crack.

Or not wanting to pay him whatever he's asking 

 

 

Young, skilled, all-star big man in a league devoid of them, if they don't want to pay him, they deserve the record that would result.

 

Even if they don't want to meet his price, surely they can get more than the third pick in a weak draft and a couple of Wizards castoffs.

[RonArtest15]

I know of another player who played poorly towards the end of his college career....James Harden.

 

I think it's important to look at the entire body of work rather than focusing on a rough patch of a season. 

[Destino]

I know of another player who played poorly towards the end of his college career....James Harden.

 

I think it's important to look at the entire body of work rather than focusing on a rough patch of a season. 

 

If you did that Beal would have looked like crap because his play improved toward the end and the numbers for his total body of work were mediocre for a great shooter.  I think scouting is difficult.  

 

Having experienced the wizards drafting habits I have been turned off of prospects lacking basketball skills.  I don't want guys that are "great defenders" or "great athletes".  I want complete players that can play on both sides of the court.  That's why I like Len and Porter more than Noel and Bennett.  

Edited June 8, 2013 by Destino

[Going Commando]

Harden's two tourney games were horrible.  So horrible that scouts were legitimately criticizing him, saying he was too passive, etc.  The usual.  It didn't really effect his draft stock because OKC loved him regardless and took him at 3 anyway, but it certainly effected the narrative around him for draftniks before and after the draft.

 

He's totally redefined himself in the NBA now though.

 

It's important not to make the same mistake in thinking with Porter or McLemore or Zeller or Oladipo or any of the other players who struggled individually in the tourney this year.  Actually it was pretty much everyone.  Smart & Burke too, though Burke's team won in spite of his bad shooting.  It was not an impressive tourney for any top lotto prospect this year.

[Going Commando]

I know of another player who played poorly towards the end of his college career....James Harden.

 

I think it's important to look at the entire body of work rather than focusing on a rough patch of a season. 

 

If you did that Beal would have looked like crap because his play improved toward the end and the numbers for his total body of work were mediocre for a great shooter.  I think scouting is difficult.  

 

Having experienced the wizards drafting habits I have been turned off of prospects lacking basketball skills.  I don't want guys that are "great defenders" or "great athletes".  I want complete players that can play on both sides of the court.  That's why I like Len and Porter more than Noel and Bennett.  

 

Meh, I think Bennett's D and Noel's O get unfairly maligned.  Bennett struggles with certain aspects of D, and his motor ran cold sometimes.  That doesn't mean he will be a bad defender in the NBA though.  Someone on RealGM noted that Blake Griffin was a HORRIBLE defender at Oklahoma.  Just didn't know what he was doing there, didn't focus on it, didn't play hard on that side.  But he got to the NBA and learned what he was doing some and made it much more a point of emphasis and by last year, he actually was a pretty solid positional defender.  In the right system, if a guy is athletic and smart and tries, you can get him to play good D.

 

And for Noel, he can't shoot.  But he has offensive skills.  He's got handles and some blow buy ability and a couple of hook shots and the ability to finish at the rim.  He can pass.  Tyson Chandler has no offensive skills but he's a massively efficient low usage offensive player in a limited role.  No reason to think Noel can't be at least that in time.

[chipwhich]

George Karl isn't dumb enough to take the coaching job here if it were offered.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

George Karl isn't dumb enough to take the coaching job here if it were offered.

Hopefully the Wizards aren't dumb enough to offer him the job. 

[SuperBash]

That rumor of Illysova for the 3rd pick (obviously other parts included) scared the hell out of me. Some Bucks beat writer said it was 50/50 on twitter but I saw another tweet that said there's no truth to it. Ernie can't be THAT dumb, can he?

 

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2013/06/bucks-wizards-talked-ilyasova-no-3-pick.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

The Bucks and Wizards have explored a trade involving big man Ersan Ilyasova and the No. 3 pick in this year's draft, according to Sam Amico of FOX Sports (via Twitter).  It's unclear if the Bucks would keep their own first round selection in such a deal, but they currently hold the No. 15 pick.

Ilyasova, 26, just finished the first year of a five-year, $40MM deal in Milwaukee.  The stretch four averaged 17.2 PPG, 9.3 RPG, and 2.1 APG last season while shooting 44.4% from the outside.  Ilyasova was in high-demand at the trade deadline this year, but the Bucks turned away suitors, including the Hawks, who were dangling Josh Smith.

No one knows how the top of the draft will shake out yet, but the No. 3 pick could yield a high-level talent for the Wizards, whether it's UNLV power forward Anthony Bennett or Georgetown's Otto Porter.  The Washington front office is reportedly split on which player to take, but they won't have that dilemma if they move the pick. 

Edited June 8, 2013 by SuperBash

[StillUnknown]

That rumor of Illysova for the 3rd pick (obviously other parts included) scared the hell out of me. Some Bucks beat writer said it was 50/50 on twitter but I saw another tweet that said there's no truth to it. Ernie can't be THAT dumb, can he?

 

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2013/06/bucks-wizards-talked-ilyasova-no-3-pick.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

 

The Bucks and Wizards have explored a trade involving big man Ersan Ilyasova and the No. 3 pick in this year's draft, according to Sam Amico of FOX Sports (via Twitter).  It's unclear if the Bucks would keep their own first round selection in such a deal, but they currently hold the No. 15 pick.

Ilyasova, 26, just finished the first year of a five-year, $40MM deal in Milwaukee.  The stretch four averaged 17.2 PPG, 9.3 RPG, and 2.1 APG last season while shooting 44.4% from the outside.  Ilyasova was in high-demand at the trade deadline this year, but the Bucks turned away suitors, including the Hawks, who were dangling Josh Smith.

No one knows how the top of the draft will shake out yet, but the No. 3 pick could yield a high-level talent for the Wizards, whether it's UNLV power forward Anthony Bennett or Georgetown's Otto Porter.  The Washington front office is reportedly split on which player to take, but they won't have that dilemma if they move the pick. 

 

Trading a draft pick for a guy who could've signed in the past? Sounds like Ernie.

[Destino]

George Karl isn't dumb enough to take the coaching job here if it were offered.

Hopefully the Wizards aren't dumb enough to offer him the job. 

Yeah who needs a guy that won coach of the year without an allstar player on the roster. Certainly not the Wizards! We have the coach with the worst win-loss record among active coaches but we ignore that because there have been stretches where they were a .500 team. Plus he has like a hundred moral victories because trying hard is so much more impressive than winning.

I'm not accepting this crap that Wittman is better here, or anywhere, than George Karl. I'm not. Wittman makes the team worse.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

George Karl isn't dumb enough to take the coaching job here if it were offered.

Hopefully the Wizards aren't dumb enough to offer him the job. 

Yeah who needs a guy that won coach of the year without an allstar player on the roster. Certainly not the Wizards! We have the coach with the worst win-loss record among active coaches but we ignore that because there have been stretches where they were a .500 team. Plus he has like a hundred moral victories because trying hard is so much more impressive than winning.

I'm not accepting this crap that Wittman is better here, or anywhere, than George Karl. I'm not. Wittman makes the team worse.

I'm not comparing Wittman to Karl.

 

But with that being said, I'd like a coach who can actually win in the playoffs.

 

Not really interested in the "Marty Schottenheimer of the NBA".

[@DCGoldPants]

If your choice is between Shottenheimer and Zorn. Who do you want?

[skinsfan834]

That rumor of Illysova for the 3rd pick (obviously other parts included) scared the hell out of me. Some Bucks beat writer said it was 50/50 on twitter but I saw another tweet that said there's no truth to it. Ernie can't be THAT dumb, can he?

 

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2013/06/bucks-wizards-talked-ilyasova-no-3-pick.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

 

The Bucks and Wizards have explored a trade involving big man Ersan Ilyasova and the No. 3 pick in this year's draft, according to Sam Amico of FOX Sports (via Twitter).  It's unclear if the Bucks would keep their own first round selection in such a deal, but they currently hold the No. 15 pick.

Ilyasova, 26, just finished the first year of a five-year, $40MM deal in Milwaukee.  The stretch four averaged 17.2 PPG, 9.3 RPG, and 2.1 APG last season while shooting 44.4% from the outside.  Ilyasova was in high-demand at the trade deadline this year, but the Bucks turned away suitors, including the Hawks, who were dangling Josh Smith.

No one knows how the top of the draft will shake out yet, but the No. 3 pick could yield a high-level talent for the Wizards, whether it's UNLV power forward Anthony Bennett or Georgetown's Otto Porter.  The Washington front office is reportedly split on which player to take, but they won't have that dilemma if they move the pick. 

If this trade goes down I might consider turning in my fan card. This move just screams mediocrity. Ilyasova is a decent player, but what are we trying to build a perrenial 4-6th seed? The point of any franchise is to win a championship. The only way we could reach the Finals with a Wall-Beal-Ilyasova core is if both Wall and Beal make metioric rises to stardom. Even then we would get ripped apart by the Heat, Pacers (getting killed against the front court), a returning presumably healthy Derrick Rose and a possible rise of the Cavs with their 1st overall pick.

 

It is not very often you get the chance to add the 3rd best prospect available, and even in a weak draft you still have the potential to add an All Star at that 3rd pick. No matter what anyone says, Ilyasova will never, ever be an All Star in this league.

 

Take Porter or Bennett and be happy that the ping pong balls bounced in our favor for once.

[Going Commando]

 

That rumor of Illysova for the 3rd pick (obviously other parts included) scared the hell out of me. Some Bucks beat writer said it was 50/50 on twitter but I saw another tweet that said there's no truth to it. Ernie can't be THAT dumb, can he?

 

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2013/06/bucks-wizards-talked-ilyasova-no-3-pick.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

 

The Bucks and Wizards have explored a trade involving big man Ersan Ilyasova and the No. 3 pick in this year's draft, according to Sam Amico of FOX Sports (via Twitter).  It's unclear if the Bucks would keep their own first round selection in such a deal, but they currently hold the No. 15 pick.

Ilyasova, 26, just finished the first year of a five-year, $40MM deal in Milwaukee.  The stretch four averaged 17.2 PPG, 9.3 RPG, and 2.1 APG last season while shooting 44.4% from the outside.  Ilyasova was in high-demand at the trade deadline this year, but the Bucks turned away suitors, including the Hawks, who were dangling Josh Smith.

No one knows how the top of the draft will shake out yet, but the No. 3 pick could yield a high-level talent for the Wizards, whether it's UNLV power forward Anthony Bennett or Georgetown's Otto Porter.  The Washington front office is reportedly split on which player to take, but they won't have that dilemma if they move the pick. 

If this trade goes down I might consider turning in my fan card. This move just screams mediocrity. Ilyasova is a decent player, but what are we trying to build a perrenial 4-6th seed? The point of any franchise is to win a championship. The only way we could reach the Finals with a Wall-Beal-Ilyasova core is if both Wall and Beal make metioric rises to stardom. Even then we would get ripped apart by the Heat, Pacers (getting killed against the front court), a returning presumably healthy Derrick Rose and a possible rise of the Cavs with their 1st overall pick.

 

It is not very often you get the chance to add the 3rd best prospect available, and even in a weak draft you still have the potential to add an All Star at that 3rd pick. No matter what anyone says, Ilyasova will never, ever be an All Star in this league.

 

Take Porter or Bennett and be happy that the ping pong balls bounced in our favor for once.

I 100% agree.  Trading 3 for Ilyasova is a stupid ass trade.  The guy is a role player, probably years older than his listed birthday, never played more than 27 MPG in a season before.  27 MPG on a 38 win Bucks team.  That's not putting us over the top.

 

We were gifted with the 3rd pick.  I don't care what draft it is, you should expect an All Star appearance out of that pick.  We need to be adding a foundation piece.  Not trying to switch places with the Bucks in EC purgatory.

[Warhead36]

Trading a top 3 pick for a role player.

 

Because it's the Wizards.

[SuperBash]

We need to get some Danny Green/Gary Neal type shooters off the bench on our team. We oughta use a 2nd rounder on Curry. I know he can shot and he can create a little bit.

[Destino]

I 100% agree.  Trading 3 for Ilyasova is a stupid ass trade.  The guy is a role player, probably years older than his listed birthday, never played more than 27 MPG in a season before.  27 MPG on a 38 win Bucks team.  That's not putting us over the top.

We were gifted with the 3rd pick.  I don't care what draft it is, you should expect an All Star appearance out of that pick.  We need to be adding a foundation piece.  Not trying to switch places with the Bucks in EC purgatory.

 

I agree.  This deal would need to be dramatically different for it to make any sense.  I'd consider Ilyasova, Larry Sanders, and an unprotected 2014 pick for Nene and 3rd overall pick.  Mostly because it would free the Wizards from Nene's horrible contract and replace it with two relatively inexpensive starting caliber young bigs.  

 

Plus if the Bucks have a terrible season without their bigs, maybe because of an injury or something, the Wizards could be sitting pretty.  

[Thinking Skins]

Quick question I've been wondering about the past few days. How similar players are Kawhi Leonard, MKG, and Otto Porter? I mean I know they each bring different skillsets, and there's a wide range of where they were picked in the draft (although I think Leonard should've gone 6th), all three had reps coming out as these kinda glue guys. When I think of Leonard, I think of him being more characterized as a defense type guy who improved his draft stock by improving his 3 pointer during workouts.

MKG I always heard about his passion and his desire to win, but his offensive skills were lacking when he was drafted. From what I remember he was drafted so highly based on potential and a high ceiling.

I'd say that Otto seems to have more offense than both of them coming in. I'm not sure how his defense compares although it is said to be good. I think I'm going to look at some of the scouting numbers for the three to see how they stack up in the measurables.

OK, this was an interesting lookup. Comparing the three in the categories at Draft Expressit seems like a decent comparison.

Height w/o Shoes

Otto Porter 6' 7.5"

MKG 6' 5.75"

Kawhi Leonard 6' 6"

Clearly, Otto wins this one, but that's no surprise.

Height w/shoes

Otto Porter 6' 8.5"

MKG 6' 7.5"

Kawhi Leonard 6' 7"

Once again, Otto wins this one - no surprise.

Weight

Otto Porter 198

MKG 233

Kawhi Leonard 227

I didn't realize that MKG and Kawhi were so much bigger than Otto.

Wingspan

Otto Porter 7' 1.5"

MKG 7' 0"

Kawhi Leonard 7' 3"

Here we see Otto midway betwee MKG and Kawhi.

Standing Reach

Otto Porter 8' 9.5"

MKG 8' 8.5"

Kawhi Leonard 8' 10"

Once again, Otto is midway between MKG and Kawhi, but closer to Kawhi than MKG.

Body Fat

Otto Porter 6.7

MKG 7

Kawhi Leonard 5.4

In the middle again, but closer to MKG this time.

No Step Vert

Otto Porter 27

MKG 32

Kawhi Leonard 25.5

That vertical is pretty low when compared to MKG, but it still beats Kawhi.

Max Vert

Otto Porter 36

MKG 35.5

Kawhi Leonard 32

In this one Otto beats both MKG and Kawhi.

Bench Press

Otto Porter 9

MKG 6

Kawhi Leonard 3

Surprising that he beat two guys who are bigger than him in this one.

Lane Agility

Otto Porter 11.25

MKG 11.77

Kawhi Leonard 11.45

Again surprising that Otto wins this one, considering people always complain about his lack of athletic ability.

3/4 Court Sprint

Otto Porter 3.4

MKG 3.18

Kawhi Leonard 3.15

Otto is in last in this one by a considerable margin.

So, I was able to answer my own question. I'm curious to see how Otto's evaluated in comparison to the other two though.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Thinking Skins

[Going Commando]

Thinking Skins, Porter is a worse athlete than the other two, but a better scorer at this point.

 

He beat them in the bench press because he's top heavy.  Decent upper body bulk and muscle tone but he's got very skinny legs.  You see that lack of explosion in his sprint and no step vert numbers.  He needs to get bigger and more powerful in his lower body.

 

MKG was a better ball handler and slasher than Porter and a much better scorer in the paint.  He's a Pippen type.  And he was actually one of the best paint scorers in last year's class, did a good job finishing through contact because he was such a powerful player.  Porter doesn't finish through contact that well and it's a strength and explosiveness issue.

 

MKG was a horrific shooter, and Porter, funny looking as his shot is, does a great job shooting.  He's got a creative mid range game and a reliable outside shot when his feet are set.

 

I think all three are plus defenders and rebounders.  Leonard is the best rebounder by a good margin even though MKG and Porter are both excellent.  He was a beast on the boards in college too, where he played a lot of PF.  Leonard is also probably the best body out of the three, longest reach and strongest build.  It gives him the ability to guard a larger variety of players.  But in the end, I think MKG ends up being the best defender in the group, he really showed off special defensive ability at Kentucky.  He's more of a SG/SF and will guard smaller players while Leonard can guard PFs and play up at the 4 pretty regularly.  I think Porter will probably be the worst defender of the bunch but there is probably going to be a lot of room to still be a great defender beneath Leonard and MKG.  I think those two have a chance to be, along with Paul George, the best wing defenders in the game.  Leonard and George are practically already there.

 

Right now Leonard's a better scorer than MKG because he can hit the three, but that's not something he had in college if you remember.  The knock on him was that he was a poor shooter too, like MKG.  He developed his catch and shoot ability in SA really rapidly.

 

But if I had to guess, I'd say Leonard ends up being the worst scorer and offensive player out of the bunch and Porter ends up being the best.  That's not a knock on Leonard either, because I think Porter and MKG will eventually end up being very good offensive players..  I think MKG eventually gets a shot and when you combine that with his ball handling and slashing ability, he'll be a pretty good offensive player.  Porter is already there, though his handle isn't great and he struggles to pull up and shoot off the dribble.  But outside that, and finishing through contact, he really doesn't have any offensive weaknesses.  He's going to be a fine offensive player.

 

I think all three are plus plus character guys.  Hardworking pros who stabilize locker rooms and are capable of assuming leadership roles in time.  They boost chemistry just by being on the floor. do the little things that lead to winning basketball.

 

It's a good group.  I think MKG ends up being the best all around player but Porter has a chance to come close, and I think he'll be better on offense his whole career.  Kind of like a 6'8 Beal.

 

At the top of the heap, you've got LeBron, Durant, and Carmelo.  But they're going to be the old guard one day.  There are a lot of good, but not great young SFs in the game right now:

 

- Leonard

- George

- MKG

- Barnes

- Harris

- Hayward

 

And soon Porter.  I think the way that group ends up sorting itself out will be:

 

1.) George

2.) MKG

3.) Porter

4.) Leonard

5.) Barnes

6.) Harris

7.) Hayward

 

Though Barnes might end up elevating himself on the list a lot.  He has that kind of pedigree as a former top player in his class and he's in a great situation.

 

Of course that's only until Wiggins, Parker, and Gordon come into the league and take it over.  Wiggins has a chance to be nearly as good as LeBron.

[Thinking Skins]

stevemcqueen1, thanks for the analysis.

Of course that's only until Wiggins, Parker, and Gordon come into the league and take it over. Wiggins has a chance to be nearly as good as LeBron.

Isn't that what we were saying about Shabazz Muhammad before this year?

Edited June 10, 2013 by Thinking Skins

[RonArtest15]

TS - there wa a lot of hype around Muhammad, but no one said his ceiling was as high as Wiggins'. 

 

Truth be told, Wiggins would have probably been the #1 overall pick in the 2012 draft as a 17 year old. 

 

People are saying he's by far the best player to possibly come into the NBA since Lebron. 

[Going Commando]

stevemcqueen1, thanks for the analysis.

 

Of course that's only until Wiggins, Parker, and Gordon come into the league and take it over. Wiggins has a chance to be nearly as good as LeBron.

Isn't that what we were saying about Shabazz Muhammad before this year?

 

I don't think so.  There was a James Harden like buzz and anticipation around Bazz.  Most of the projections had him as a future SG IIRC.  Then it kind of became clear during the year he is probably more of an undersized SF than SG.

 

I think Bazz can still end up being very good though, depending on the team that picks him.  He's got a Paul Pierce or Caron Butler-like scoring arsenal.  Lots of craftiness.

 

Regardless, there was nowhere near the level of anticipation around Bazz that there is around Wiggins.  He's the most anticipated prospect since LeBron.  More the Oden.  He's probably the best athlete to come along since LeBron, kid is a Jordanesque leaper.

[skinsfan834]

Regardless of what we do at the #3 pick, I would love to see us add some more scorers with our 2nd rounders. A guy that hasn't been talked about absolutely anywhere is Temple's Khalif Wyatt. I saw him play live this past NCAA tournament against Indiana in the 2nd round and absolutley toy with the best definsive player (Oladipo) and team in the country. When you take a look at him he looks the exact opposite of what you would picture a great scorer to be, but he has such a crafty and unique scoring arsenal. More so than Shabazz, Steve, he reminds me of a Paul Pierce type.

 

If he shows he can get buckets against a great defender in Oladipo I see no reason why he can't come off the bench 8-14 minutes a game to give our bench a much needed scoring spark.

Edited June 11, 2013 by skinsfan834

[Quincy]

Not draft related, and sorry to get off topic with the draft talk, but all these coach firings have really been surprising, especially Karl, and, most recently, the Grizzlies' Lionel Hollins.

This isn't to discuss more on what the coaches have done or haven't been able to achieve for their teams, but when we look at the long list of available coaches, there are definitely a lot of coaches out there who would be an immediate upgrade from Wittman. I've even been surprised that Sam Cassell never got the opportunity to be the coach. Dude was around with us longer than Wittman, I think. And this isn't a knock on Wittman at all; the guy's track record just doesn't really cut it compared to the crop of coaches that are out there. Del Negro, Karl, Hollins, the Van Gundy brothers (although if i recall correctly, Stan mentioned something about wanting to take a break from coaching for a bit to have time with his family?), etc.

It seems like now would be a great time to capitalize on one of these coaches.

[RichmondRedskin88]

Trade idea I saw on Facebook.

 

Trade #1 

Miami gets;

Emeka Okafor 

Kevin Seraphim

Washington Gets;

Chris Bosh plus Cash

Trade #2

Sacramento Gets;

Chris Bosh

Washington Gets;

Demarcus Cousins

Travis Outlaw

John Salmons