The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[RichmondRedskin88]

As long as stars have this mentality we’re not winning anything.  No one is building a super team in DC.   

[Sticksboi05]

I will never fully get on board with the mentality of not wanting to beat the best but join up with the best. If Giannis played with all of those guys and won a title it'd be completely hollow, a minimal accomplishment.

 

BUT on the other side, he wants to win and he cares more about winning that accolades, which is exactly the type of mentality you want. So I'm not fully off that mentality either.

[Hersh]

6 minutes ago, Sticksboi05 said:

I will never fully get on board with the mentality of not wanting to beat the best but join up with the best. If Giannis played with all of those guys and won a title it'd be completely hollow, a minimal accomplishment.

 

BUT on the other side, he wants to win and he cares more about winning that accolades, which is exactly the type of mentality you want. So I'm not fully off that mentality either.

 

I don't mind ring chasers at the end of a career or if leaving a franchise like the Knicks cause they are atrocious. Otherwise the mentality is garbage. KD's championships are super hollow cause he joined the team he couldn't beat despite being up 3-2 in the series. 

[Going Commando]

3 hours ago, bearrock said:

Where are you getting this?

 

Bill Simmons said that he heard this is what happened, but also from the fact that Tommy admitted they are pretty much running every decision by Beal and his people.  There is no way a decision this big wasn't done with Beal and Westbrook working out the idea of it beforehand.  Star players drive these kinds of team-ups now.  Beal had motive to make this happen.  David Aldridge could tell something was wrong between Wall and Beal, and he hinted that Beal was unhappy with the way Wall handled his rehab.  Beal's a grinder and kindred spirit to Westbrook.  Westbrook was unhappy with the casual culture in Houston and wanted to play with someone serious.  And this move in particular has Beal's fingerprints on it.  The fact that this was done in such a way to provide a soft landing spot for Wall (the place where his friends Harden and Cousins are playing) so that he wouldn't fight it is what really convinces me it was him.  Beal is smart and he has always been good at handling and placating John IMO.  Could see it just from the way he diffused controversies and interacted with Wall in joint press sessions.

[bearrock]

43 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Bill Simmons said that he heard this is what happened, but also from the fact that Tommy admitted they are pretty much running every decision by Beal and his people.  There is no way a decision this big wasn't done with Beal and Westbrook working out the idea of it beforehand.  Star players drive these kinds of team-ups now.  Beal had motive to make this happen.  David Aldridge could tell something was wrong between Wall and Beal, and he hinted that Beal was unhappy with the way Wall handled his rehab.  Beal's a grinder and kindred spirit to Westbrook.  Westbrook was unhappy with the casual culture in Houston and wanted to play with someone serious.  And this move in particular has Beal's fingerprints on it.  The fact that this was done in such a way to provide a soft landing spot for Wall (the place where his friends Harden and Cousins are playing) so that he wouldn't fight it is what really convinces me it was him.  Beal is smart and he has always been good at handling and placating John IMO.  Could see it just from the way he diffused controversies and interacted with Wall in joint press sessions.

 

That's Ashburn level tea leaves reading to me.  While it wouldn't surprise me if Sheppard ran the decision by Beal, it's taking it another level to say that Beal orchestrated pushing Wall out of DC.  

[Destino]

Ok enough about Wall.  He’s gone and happy with his laid back friends in Houston and making embarrassing amounts of money.  he’ll be fine.
 

So how good can this team be?  Westbrook, despite the whining, is a damned good nba player.  So is Beal.  We have a killer backcourt.  Best we’ve had in two years, arguably better than before that because Beal has turned into a stone cold killer he wasn’t three years ago.  Bertans is the best shooting big man not named KD.  
 

what else do we have?  Rui is in year two which I think is the least predictable season for nba players.  Sometimes they step up, sometimes they slump.  Thomas Bryant the same this year?  He seemed to make a leap last year, is that as good as he gets or does he come into this year even better.  Maybe he learned to play defense?  Doubtful.  Does TBJ finally show he’s an nba player this season or does he continue being ok at everything, without being actually good at any one thing?  

 

If the wizards stay healthy, this season should be fun.  

[Spaceman Spiff]

21 minutes ago, Destino said:

Ok enough about Wall.  He’s gone and happy with his laid back friends in Houston and making embarrassing amounts of money.  he’ll be fine.
 

So how good can this team be?  Westbrook, despite the whining, is a damned good nba player.  So is Beal.  We have a killer backcourt.  Best we’ve had in two years, arguably better than before that because Beal has turned into a stone cold killer he wasn’t three years ago.  Bertans is the best shooting big man not named KD.  
 

what else do we have?  Rui is in year two which I think is the least predictable season for nba players.  Sometimes they step up, sometimes they slump.  Thomas Bryant the same this year?  He seemed to make a leap last year, is that as good as he gets or does he come into this year even better.  Maybe he learned to play defense?  Doubtful.  Does TBJ finally show he’s an nba player this season or does he continue being ok at everything, without being actually good at any one thing?  

 

If the wizards stay healthy, this season should be fun.  

 

Fun if you don't like defense! 

[Destino]

Just now, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Fun if you don't like defense! 

**** defense.  First team to 135 wins.  I want to drink mediocre whiskey on a week night while the wizards beat bad teams by a million.  

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, bearrock said:

That's Ashburn level tea leaves reading to me.  While it wouldn't surprise me if Sheppard ran the decision by Beal, it's taking it another level to say that Beal orchestrated pushing Wall out of DC.  

 

I think it's naive to think that star player trades like these aren't orchestrated by the players themselves.  That's how the NBA works now.  It's not hard for these guys to get together in the offseason, decide that they want something, and then go and make it happen.  I absolutely do not think Tommy pulled all of this together himself.  He's been along for the ride throughout this entire episode.  Couple that with the fact that Bill Simmons, who is still something of an insider just came out and said that he heard it was Westbrook and Beal behind this move and it's the only thing that makes sense.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Sigh...

 

I will miss him.  Stay healthy, John.

 

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by TryTheBeal!

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Destino said:

So how good can this team be?

 

A fifth seed that will scare teams in the playoffs.  If I were Indy or Philly or Toronto, I wouldn't want to play this team in the first round.

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I think it's naive to think that star player trades like these aren't orchestrated by the players themselves.  That's how the NBA works now.  It's not hard for these guys to get together in the offseason, decide that they want something, and then go and make it happen.  I absolutely do not think Tommy pulled all of this together himself.  He's been along for the ride throughout this entire episode.  Couple that with the fact that Bill Simmons, who is still something of an insider just came out and said that he heard it was Westbrook and Beal behind this move and it's the only thing that makes sense.

 

While I agree that this is how the NBA works now, no legit NBA superstar, certainly a guy on Westbrook's level, would orchestrate a trade to come to the Wizards.  

 

But even if you're right...so what?  

[Destino]

 

How the hell does Bonga weigh 180 at 6-8? 

[Going Commando]

33 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

While I agree that this is how the NBA works now, no legit NBA superstar, certainly a guy on Westbrook's level, would orchestrate a trade to come to the Wizards.  

 

But even if you're right...so what?  

 

I think the only way Westbrook ends up on a team like the Wizards is if he made it happen.

 

If Beal was behind the trade, then it means he's untrustworthy and has seized way too much power here, and it's time to deal him for the best asset package possible and start over.  He's going to toy with the franchise and play GM for the next two years, it's not going to work, and when he and Westbrook walk, the team will be starting over from scratch with no surplus assets.

[DoneMessedUp]

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Bill Simmons said that he heard this is what happened, but also from the fact that Tommy admitted they are pretty much running every decision by Beal and his people.  There is no way a decision this big wasn't done with Beal and Westbrook working out the idea of it beforehand.  Star players drive these kinds of team-ups now.  Beal had motive to make this happen.  David Aldridge could tell something was wrong between Wall and Beal, and he hinted that Beal was unhappy with the way Wall handled his rehab.  Beal's a grinder and kindred spirit to Westbrook.  Westbrook was unhappy with the casual culture in Houston and wanted to play with someone serious.  And this move in particular has Beal's fingerprints on it.  The fact that this was done in such a way to provide a soft landing spot for Wall (the place where his friends Harden and Cousins are playing) so that he wouldn't fight it is what really convinces me it was him.  Beal is smart and he has always been good at handling and placating John IMO.  Could see it just from the way he diffused controversies and interacted with Wall in joint press sessions.

 

This post reminded me of this story from two seasons ago

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/11/20/im-sick-this-wizards-dysfunction-boils-over-into-verbal-altercations-recent-practice/

[Spaceman Spiff]

13 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I think the only way Westbrook ends up on a team like the Wizards is if he made it happen.

 

If Beal was behind the trade, then it means he's untrustworthy and has seized way too much power here, and it's time to deal him for the best asset package possible and start over.  He's going to toy with the franchise and play GM for the next two years, it's not going to work, and when he and Westbrook walk, the team will be starting over from scratch with no surplus assets.

 

Fair enough, but what about it makes him untrustworthy if you already admitted that this is how NBA players operate these days?

[Going Commando]

5 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Fair enough, but what about it makes him untrustworthy if you already admitted that this is how NBA players operate these days?

 

Not all of them do.  But the ones who play GM and put the team's real GM in the back passenger seat tend to leave that team a wreck as they cut bait and go somewhere else.  We're not even going to get a championship out of it with Westbrook and Beal.  Not even going to come that close really.

 

Beal has this team by the balls and I would not trust that dude at all.  We're going to bend over backwards to appease him for the next two years, and everyone and everything is going to be on the block.  He's not going to reciprocate with a long term commitment.  What he and Westbrook are trying to do isn't going to work because they and the team around them aren't good enough to win a ring.  And he's going to leave for a better opportunity to win when he hits his option year.  That is our trajectory right now, I am almost certain of it.  It'll take a parting of the red sea type situation for all of the contenders ahead of us to fall apart and open up a path to a championship for this group.

[Spaceman Spiff]

9 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Not all of them do.  But the ones who play GM and put the team's real GM in the back passenger seat tend to leave that team a wreck as they cut bait and go somewhere else.  We're not even going to get a championship out of it with Westbrook and Beal.  Not even going to come that close really.

 

Beal has this team by the balls and I would not trust that dude at all.  We're going to bend over backwards to appease him for the next two years, and everyone and everything is going to be on the block.  He's not going to reciprocate with a long term commitment.  What he and Westbrook are trying to do isn't going to work because they and the team around them aren't good enough to win a ring.  And he's going to leave for a better opportunity to win when he hits his option year.  That is our trajectory right now, I am almost certain of it.  It'll take a parting of the red sea type situation for all of the contenders ahead of us to fall apart and open up a path to a championship for this group.

 

I believe your last sentence is the most accurate part.  It's going to be hard to get around the Bucks out of the East and maybe Miami too.   It's also going to be hard to win a title with LeBron and Davis still teamed up.  

 

I disagree a little that the ones that play GM and put the real GM in the backseat and leave their team a wreck.  You could argue KD did, but that was revolving around injuries.  Even if you do view GSW that way, it still worked, they won a ring.  

[Hersh]

8 hours ago, Destino said:

Ok enough about Wall.  He’s gone and happy with his laid back friends in Houston and making embarrassing amounts of money.  he’ll be fine.
 

So how good can this team be?  Westbrook, despite the whining, is a damned good nba player.  So is Beal.  We have a killer backcourt.  Best we’ve had in two years, arguably better than before that because Beal has turned into a stone cold killer he wasn’t three years ago.  Bertans is the best shooting big man not named KD.  
 

what else do we have?  Rui is in year two which I think is the least predictable season for nba players.  Sometimes they step up, sometimes they slump.  Thomas Bryant the same this year?  He seemed to make a leap last year, is that as good as he gets or does he come into this year even better.  Maybe he learned to play defense?  Doubtful.  Does TBJ finally show he’s an nba player this season or does he continue being ok at everything, without being actually good at any one thing?  

 

If the wizards stay healthy, this season should be fun.  

 

The problem with Bertans is that he doesn't do anything but launch threes. He's not much of a rebounder, don't know if he plays any defense and he doesn't shoot well from 2 pt range. 

I know you are all in for high scoring games but I would rather see some defense and see this team have a shot to make some noise in the playoffs. Does this team have a defender that can hound a great player?

[Cooked Crack]

@BRAVEONAWARPATH Can we get a title change?

[Mooka]

If Beal orchestrated the trade then he should be the new GM.

 

Wall's contract was an absolute albatross. We paid him 80+million to sit out the last 2 years.

 

Westbrook gets paid the same and is probably one of like 2 or 3 players you could even contemplate a possible trade for. Otherwise we're talking trading Wall for 40mil worth of expiring contracts or like 4+ old bums that would be worthless.

[Kosher Ham]

23 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

@BRAVEONAWARPATH Can we get a title change?

 

B&W TV ? 

[justice98]

9 hours ago, Sticksboi05 said:

I will never fully get on board with the mentality of not wanting to beat the best but join up with the best. If Giannis played with all of those guys and won a title it'd be completely hollow, a minimal accomplishment.

 

BUT on the other side, he wants to win and he cares more about winning that accolades, which is exactly the type of mentality you want. So I'm not fully off that mentality either.

 

Completely hollow to who?  

 

It's not like he would be along for the ride.  He obviously would be instrumental, if not THE guy.  When these guys are holding up the trophy and getting covered in confetti, none of that matters. And then as time goes on, people care less and less.  Look at about KD joining the Warriors, people don't even care anymore.  

 

I'd much rather be KD or Garnett and have all the same accolades but with a ring or two in my pocket, than be Barkley or somebody talking 'bout "I would never do that and join up to win" walking around empty handed, never experiencing reaching that pinnacle.

 

Plus, all we're talking about is luck of the draw anyway.  Are you Larry Bird and fortunate enough to have a roster full of future Hall of Famers put around you by your front office, or are you Patrick Ewing and you get who you get.

 

[Hersh]

9 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

Completely hollow to who?  

 

It's not like he would be along for the ride.  He obviously would be instrumental, if not THE guy.  When these guys are holding up the trophy and getting covered in confetti, none of that matters. And then as time goes on, people care less and less.  Look at about KD joining the Warriors, people don't even care anymore.  

 

I'd much rather be KD or Garnett and have all the same accolades but with a ring or two in my pocket, than be Barkley or somebody talking 'bout "I would never do that and join up to win" walking around empty handed, never experiencing reaching that pinnacle.

 

Plus, all we're talking about is luck of the draw anyway.  Are you Larry Bird and fortunate enough to have a roster full of future Hall of Famers put around you by your front office, or are you Patrick Ewing and you get who you get.

 

 

Garnett was traded. KD will never get the same respect as other champions and he knows it. That's why he acts like a miserable person all the time. What makes KD different from most other ring chasers is that he joined a championship team while still in his prime. It's not like the Warriors just all got together and hadn't won yet. If Giannis goes to a team that has already won a championship, he will never get the same respect for winning. 

[Sticksboi05]

57 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

Completely hollow to who?  

 

It's not like he would be along for the ride.  He obviously would be instrumental, if not THE guy.  When these guys are holding up the trophy and getting covered in confetti, none of that matters. And then as time goes on, people care less and less.  Look at about KD joining the Warriors, people don't even care anymore.  

 

I'd much rather be KD or Garnett and have all the same accolades but with a ring or two in my pocket, than be Barkley or somebody talking 'bout "I would never do that and join up to win" walking around empty handed, never experiencing reaching that pinnacle.

 

 

That's why I said I'm also not completely off that mentality either. I love that he just wants to win period.

 

But let's be real, Durant's titles in Golden State will not be viewed the same as LeBron's in Cleveland. Even a guy like Bird, yes he played with great talent - nobody knew who Robert Parish was before he started playing with Bird. McHale is a Hall of Famer no matter where he goes but playing with Bird absolutely made him a better player. Before Magic came to LA, Kareem got that team to a gentleman's sweep in Round 2, Magic made them champions.

 

Cannot say the same for Durant and Golden State, which was already a title contender and winner.