The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[LetMeSeeYourWarFace21]

Good sentiment, but I don't think you understand how NBA contracts work.

 

No, I do, just wishful thinking....Im even willing to make a deal with the devil.....let me see the Wizards win a Championship, and I promised that I will take up watching soccer or water polo, and never watch NBA basketball again....

[LetMeSeeYourWarFace21]

Why can Kyrie take over in overtime but not Wall

 

Cause Wall cant shoot to save his life and we just gave this dude a 80mill contract extension. Really starting to lose faith in John Wall......you can do much worse then him @ PG, but mannn, he's got to get his shooting down. I know with shooting, its funny, but dam, who's his shooting coach??  He said he spent all off season shooting 3s......Screw the 3's, practice on mid range jumpers. 

Wall shouldn't have been given a max deal. His horrible shooting, bad shot selection, and disinterest in general is alarming. Kyrie is a star, Wall is looking more like Rondo with less consistent defense.

 

Sh-t, unless Rondo eventually developed a decent J......Wall shoots like he never shot a basketball until he got drafted by the Wizards....

[Ozymandias]

Wall's jumpshot has improved from last season. He just needs to continue working on it. But man, i was so disappointed last night. I thought Wall would have his breakout game against irving to show the world that he is the real deal. He dished out a lot of assists which is nice but he was completely overshadowed by Kyrie. Kyrie was destroying him on offense. I hope this is a wake up call for Wall.

[MonkFan8]

Have only watched one game this year but I don't see how anyone could be surprised with our start. This is not a good basketball team. Beal is good, Wall will come around (he was going to get the max somewhere, not surprised it was here) but outside of that we don't really have much to contend with. Nene is on his last legs, Gortat was a player I wanted here before he went to the Suns, not 3 years later. Now we just have to wait for Porter to come in and unimpress.

 

I'm really not sure I'm going to bother watching anything other than "highlights" until Grunfeld is finally fired. 

[JoeWolf990]

Wall's jumpshot has improved from last season. He just needs to continue working on it. But man, i was so disappointed last night. I thought Wall would have his breakout game against irving to show the world that he is the real deal. He dished out a lot of assists which is nice but he was completely overshadowed by Kyrie. Kyrie was destroying him on offense. I hope this is a wake up call for Wall.

Wall's jumper hasnt improved.

When he releases the ball at its highest point, it usually stands a better chance. Problem is he keeps releasing on the way down.

I actually though Wall had a great floor general game yesterday until the bench blew it again in the 4th. He dictated the pace of the game and was making things easier for everyone. He needs to attack the basket more, but I have no idea if thats him being passive, his back not being right, or the Wittman offense. Probably all 3.

Kyrie made Wall his **** last night, watching the game it was like Wall was scared of him I don't know how many times Wall fell asleep on defense and let Kyrie get a open 3 after open 3. Then when he decide to man up on him Kyrie just blew right by him. Now Kyrie is a very gifted player and that can happen to 90% of the league trying to guard the man but after you get beat Wall didn't up his game on offense at all, it was like he accepted that he couldnt compete with the guy. The 12 assist was nice but a 100 million I am expecting the guy to take over the game in crunch time and he didn't.

this is very lazy.

Kyrie didnt make Wall his b_____, the Cavs moved Kyrie off the ball and had him running through screens to get open shots and create mismatches. They did that because Wall was actually doing a good job defensively. When Wall was on Kyrie, Kyrie was forced into very hard shots.

I would have to be done with the franchise at that point. I'd root for Golden State, the Western Wizards as I refer to them.

if that happened, id love for the franchise to move away from the area. Just get rid and start over.

[Going Commando]

Incredibly bad play and it came at a bad time too.  Then after then game he's barking at Jack for scoring when the game was already won... he made a fool of himself late in the game today.

This play sums up the season so far. Crapping your pants at the worst time, overshadowing a 28 point night.

We can't win with this roster unless we get way more from Wall. He's in a cold spell and the season might get away before he comes alive.

Down to just five quality players now without Ariza. Got almost nothing from the bench, all the starters played over 37 minutes last night. Beal has a real chance to lead the league in minutes this season. They're going to get worn out at this rate, and we've got no wins to show for it.

The thing I was most afraid of was Kyrie having a breakout game against us after having played so poorly the past few games and it happened of course. Why wouldn't it? I'm sure if Bennett had played he'd have gotten his career on track against us too.

Those possessions in OT killed me. Just some ridiculously desperation and poor basketball. These guys had no idea how to score. Stymied by a crap defensive team. Their coaching is so bad.

I seriously don't think it is ever going to be more clear that Randy should be fired and replaced ASAP. That was a bad loss and the season is about to slip away.

[SiCkSoULjA]

Wall's jumper hasnt improved.

When he releases the ball at its highest point, it usually stands a better chance. Problem is he keeps releasing on the way down.

I actually though Wall had a great floor general game yesterday until the bench blew it again in the 4th. He dictated the pace of the game and was making things easier for everyone. He needs to attack the basket more, but I have no idea if thats him being passive, his back not being right, or the Wittman offense. Probably all 3.

this is very lazy.

Kyrie didnt make Wall his b_____, the Cavs moved Kyrie off the ball and had him running through screens to get open shots and create mismatches. They did that because Wall was actually doing a good job defensively. When Wall was on Kyrie, Kyrie was forced into very hard shots.

if that happened, id love for the franchise to move away from the area. Just get rid and start over.

I watched the whole game Walls defense and effort was pathetic. The last two 3s Kyrie hit He was just standing on the baseline where Wall was suppose to be guarding him.

Also a lot of Walls assist be because of the play he's not braking people down and setting up people say like a Chris Paul.

Also you see your match up is lighting it up where is the pride to at least try to match him some.

Edited November 18, 2013 by SiCkSoULjA

[JoeWolf990]

I watched the whole game Walls defense and effort was pathetic. The last two 3s Kyrie hit He was just standing on the baseline where Wall was suppose to be guarding him.

Also a lot of Walls assist be because of the play he's not braking people down and setting up people say like a Chris Paul.

Also you see your match up is lighting it up where is the pride to at least try tooatch him some.

im not trying to be a dick, but none of this makes sense.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I seriously don't think it is ever going to be more clear that Randy should be fired and replaced ASAP. That was a bad loss and the season is about to slip away.

Heck, at this point just let Sam Cassell coach the team.

 

Anybody but Randy......

[Going Commando]

Heck, at this point just let Sam Cassell coach the team.

 

Anybody but Randy......

The assistant we got from San Antonio seems like a better option just on the SA connection alone.

Wish we had gotten someone new over the offseason.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

If this team unexpectedly finds itself near the top of the lottery, what would the plan be? Part of me would be tempted to build around Wall + the new guy and trade as much of the young talent as I could for steady veterans (Beal included).

 

(I'm assuming that Washington still would have a top pick because my understanding is that the Gortat pick is protected through #12).

 

I'm still of the belief that too much young talent is a dangerous thing, but if life gives you Jabari Parker, you have to make lemonade, right?

 

Ted probably extends Ernie through 2019 and they draft Marcus Smart to be Wall's backup.

[Destino]

If this team unexpectedly finds itself near the top of the lottery, what would the plan be? Part of me would be tempted to build around Wall + the new guy and trade as much of the young talent as I could for steady veterans (Beal included).

 

(I'm assuming that Washington still would have a top pick because my understanding is that the Gortat pick is protected through #12).

 

I'm still of the belief that too much young talent is a dangerous thing, but if life gives you Jabari Parker, you have to make lemonade, right?

 

Ted probably extends Ernie through 2019 and they draft Marcus Smart to be Wall's backup.

 

I'm not a big believer in teams built around "star" point guards so I'd be more inclined to trade Porter and Wall.  Build around Parker and Beal and try to get a good not great point guard and a coach that runs a more disciplined offense than Wittman's motionless motion offense.  Wall and Porter should be enough to get a big man of some talent in return (assuming Wall improves enough for him to be more than a bad contract).  If you kept Wall and added Parker you'd be OKC with a PG that can't score nearly as well and there is no guarantee Parker/Wiggins will ever be the dominant scoring talent that Durant is.  

[SuperBash]

A legit vet back up PG who can actually score a little bit and run the offense would have been a big help for this team. But, we had to quickly lock up Maynor for 2 years for some reason.

[RonArtest15]

If we continue in this downward spiral, I'd love to get people's take on this trade proposal:

 

Wizards get:  Amare Stoudemire

 

Knicks get:  Nene, Ves, and Singleton

 

Thoughts? 

[Destino]

If we continue in this downward spiral, I'd love to get people's take on this trade proposal:

 

Wizards get:  Amare Stoudemire

 

Knicks get:  Nene, Ves, and Singleton

 

Thoughts? 

 

The only way I'd support trading for Amare is if the Wizards went full rebuilding mode and fired Grunfeld.  I would hate accepting another few years of planned failure (Amare isn't playing) and even moreso because it helps the Knicks and I have a standing "**** the knicks" basketball policy.    

 

I would keep Ves and trade Seraphin in his place.  I don't know what the Wizards did to him but damn that kid is a walking disaster right now.  

A legit vet back up PG who can actually score a little bit and run the offense would have been a big help for this team. But, we had to quickly lock up Maynor for 2 years for some reason.

 

Why do we run an offense that depends on the point guard doing so much?  Why can't we get away from that?  I just can't see the logic in having to drop money on a back up PG that is going to average less than 12 minutes a game, and likely less than the in the post season should this team ever make it.  

Edited November 18, 2013 by Destino

[SuperBash]

The only way I'd support trading for Amare is if the Wizards went full rebuilding mode and fired Grunfeld.  I would hate accepting another few years of planned failure (Amare isn't playing) and even moreso because it helps the Knicks and I have a standing "**** the knicks" basketball policy.    

 

I would keep Ves and trade Seraphin in his place.  I don't know what the Wizards did to him but damn that kid is a walking disaster right now.  

 

Why do we run an offense that depends on the point guard doing so much?  Why can't we get away from that?  I just can't see the logic in having to drop money on a back up PG that is going to average less than 12 minutes a game, and likely less than the in the post season should this team ever make it.  

I'd agree if we had some shot creators on the bench but the team isn't built that way. Ideally, we'd have enough shot creators to get by on our bench but this is the Wizards we're talking about.

[RonArtest15]

The only way I'd support trading for Amare is if the Wizards went full rebuilding mode and fired Grunfeld.  I would hate accepting another few years of planned failure (Amare isn't playing) and even moreso because it helps the Knicks and I have a standing "**** the knicks" basketball policy.    

 

I would keep Ves and trade Seraphin in his place.  I don't know what the Wizards did to him but damn that kid is a walking disaster right now.  

 

Why do we run an offense that depends on the point guard doing so much?  Why can't we get away from that?  I just can't see the logic in having to drop money on a back up PG that is going to average less than 12 minutes a game, and likely less than the in the post season should this team ever make it.  

Like I said...I'd only pull the trigger on that deal if the ship is completely sinking. 

 

I keep telling myself that we're 8 games in.  This team HAS to be due for a 3 game win streak of some sort.  I just want to see an efficient game from start to finish.  There have been a few instances this season of this squad building a 10+ point lead, only to give it up and lose.  They have to figure out a way to go for the jugular.  Stop playing not to lose and rather play to win. 

 

Speaking of a back up PG, I would love to see a list of all the backups we've had since EG has been GM.  The list can't be pretty. 

[Destino]

Since Wall has been here the backup point guards have been:  Arenas, Bibby, Crawford, Hinrich, Livingston, Mack, Maynor, Pargo, Price, Shakur, Temple.  That's an impressive list to compile 8 games into season 4.  

[RonArtest15]

Since Wall has been here the backup point guards have been:  Arenas, Bibby, Crawford, Hinrich, Livingston, Mack, Maynor, Pargo, Price, Shakur, Temple.  That's an impressive list to compile 8 games into season 4.  

 

Ouch.  That list is beyond brutal.  Hindsight is 20/20, but I wish we still had Hinrich...or even Livingston for that matter. 

[Going Commando]

If this team unexpectedly finds itself near the top of the lottery, what would the plan be? Part of me would be tempted to build around Wall + the new guy and trade as much of the young talent as I could for steady veterans (Beal included).

 

(I'm assuming that Washington still would have a top pick because my understanding is that the Gortat pick is protected through #12).

 

I'm still of the belief that too much young talent is a dangerous thing, but if life gives you Jabari Parker, you have to make lemonade, right?

 

Ted probably extends Ernie through 2019 and they draft Marcus Smart to be Wall's backup.

I've been thinking about the feasibility of rebuilding. My big question is what is a new FO going do with the current roster? What can they do? Who would they want to keep? What is their time frame for actually being able to legitimately compete?

I think we can safely assume that any new FO would get a lot of time and latitude from Ted.

The only thing I do know is that it's not working with this entire FO. We've gotten good players and they still aren't winning. What else is there to do?

This is what I see happening: we'll fire Wittman, find a mediocre replacement and see a modest bump in team performance. Maybe still eke out a late seed, and do it with a rag tag late season charge that gets Ernie a two year extension. Then another offseason where we take two steps forward and two steps back and another bad start next season, with bigs who are a year older, and it leaves us with the same questions as always.

If the FO is working on 2 year extensions that should be a clear signal they need to be fired and replaced.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

The John Wall contract extension is both a blessing and a curse. On the one hand, he ain't going anywhere for five years. So, you can do anything you want with the roster and not have to worry about pushing him out of town anytime soon. On the other hand, I'm sure he signed that contract thinking "We are a team on the rise." To be suddenly facing a rebuilding one year into that could push him into the "bitter superstar" zone. It's never good to have a bitter superstar. (For the record, I'm treating Wall as a superstar because what else can you do at this point?)

 

If you fire everyone and just rebuild, you need to do so with Wall's complete buy-in. (Unless you trade Wall - in which case, you are looking at a three year long-term thing in the best case scenario). Ted needs to sell him on the new GM and the new GM needs to sell him the plan.

 

I would think that Wall-Top 3 pick in a loaded draft-and a bunch of high IQ vets could be a pretty good team pretty quickly. And I think you could make some noise in the trade market if you dangled Beal. (Nothing against Beal, I just don't want that many young guys).

 

Anyway, this is probably a moot point. This team will somehow finish with the eighth pick in a draft where the first seven picks end up making all star games someday..

[Going Commando]

I'm not a big believer in teams built around "star" point guards so I'd be more inclined to trade Porter and Wall.  Build around Parker and Beal and try to get a good not great point guard and a coach that runs a more disciplined offense than Wittman's motionless motion offense.  Wall and Porter should be enough to get a big man of some talent in return (assuming Wall improves enough for him to be more than a bad contract).  If you kept Wall and added Parker you'd be OKC with a PG that can't score nearly as well and there is no guarantee Parker/Wiggins will ever be the dominant scoring talent that Durant is.

I don't know, If I were rebuilding I probably keep Wall. I'd only deal him for something really special, low risk, clear reward. And that's not knocking down our door unless Wall has a great season. And if he has a great season, I'm not dealing him (and maybe we're not even rebuilding).

But I'd also keep Beal. Then I'd use a top three draft pick on a forward. Randle, Parker, and Wiggins all work. We don't have to deal Wall or Beal. Beal still has years of team control left.

I disagree that'd make us a poor man's OKC. Wall is a pretty different PG than Westbrook. He's very well rounded and you can put him in virtually any build except one that doesn't have any wing shooters.

Then you deal Nene for a shorter contract. Don't overpay for Gortat, which means he probably walks. Let Ariza walk I suppose. Let Ves, Seraphin, Singleton, and Booker all walk. Deal Porter if the pick is a SF like Wiggins or Parker. Probably keep him if its a PF like Randle or Gordon.

And basically hope that the new kid is the real deal.

A true blue stud scorer in Randle/Wiggins/Parker that can create his own offense totally changes the dynamic of the team. Pushes Beal into the role of secondary scorer, where he would be a very rich option. And it pushes Wall into the role of Glue Man, locker room rah rah guy, set up guy, and defensive stopper, which he would be an extremely rich option. Like a rich man's Mike Conley/Tony Allen type. But Wall would have to buy into this, would he?

Then after that it's finding the right role players, something Ernie can't do. Spend money and later draft picks wisely. And most importantly, you have to find the right coach.

[StillUnknown]

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/11/18/5119660/john-wall-washington-wizards-shooting

 

 

Washington Wizards point guard John Wall isn't having the start to the season he envisioned. This was supposed to be his All-Star turn and his team's time to push for the playoffs. While it's early and those things are still possible, it isn't looking good so far. Wall is averaging 16.1 points on 36.5 percent shooting and Washington has just two wins in nine games. In order to turn things around, he thinks he has to get back to what he's best at: driving to the basket, via NBA.com's David Aldridge:

"I've gotta get back to attacking the basket, and just settling," he said as he sat down following the Wizards' shootaround Saturday morning.

 

"I think that can happen when you've worked so hard on your shot," Wall said, tacitly acknowledging that he's trying to prove that he is a good perimeter shooter this season. It has been a burden on Wall since he was taken No. 1 overall by Washington in 2010, only briefly ameliorated with a strong showing last season after he returned from a knee injury.

 

 

 

More in the link

[Destino]

I'm not seeing the versatility in Wall's game.  He's fast and good at passing the ball.  That's it.  He's not great at keeping his dribble alive, scoring in general, hasn't shown leadership qualities, and his defense is hit or miss.  He's also quietly become a decidedly below the rim player.  He doesn't even really elevate around the rim anymore choosing drift into his defender and throw up some garbage hoping for a whistle or sneaking around the defender and going for a scoop layup.  

 

He needs a mid range shot desperately because he just isn't very good without it.  He's not worth a max deal without it.  

Edited November 19, 2013 by Destino

[Hersh]

If we continue in this downward spiral, I'd love to get people's take on this trade proposal:

 

Wizards get:  Amare Stoudemire

 

Knicks get:  Nene, Ves, and Singleton

 

Thoughts? 

 

I would offer Nene to Cleveland for Andrew Bynum and Tyler Zeller immediately. After that, I'd cut Bynum before his contract becomes guaranteed for next year. Cleveland improves a lot, Wiz clear cap space and still have two very good trade assets in Gortat and Ariza.

 

Or I offer Nene to OKC for Perkins and buy him out. Perkins would be an easier buy out than Amare and at worst he save 4 million in cap space for next season if they end up keeping him.