The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

A co-worker told me yesterday that he heard the rumor was #6 and McGee for Minny's #2. Don't think that's been posted yet and I personally hadn't heard it before. Been ridiculously busy so maybe I missed it.

[Going Commando]

I think you're selling Crawford's defensive potential short Destino. He's basically the same size and has the same reach as John Wall who is big enough to defend 2s. Both Crawford and Wall are long and both have decent strength already. Both can defend the 1 or 2 interchangeably. Each are basically as tall and long as Dwyane Wade and they'll add strength as they age.

I agree Beasley plays soft for a 3 but he's actually a really strong player and absolutely has the strength to stick with any 3 in the league if he wanted to. My problem with that lineup is that Beasley and DWill are far too similar to play beside each other. They are almost identical physically except that DWill is a tiny bit longer and heavier with a higher % of body fat and slightly slower footspeed.

I don't like the idea of putting two tweener forwards on the court together at the same time. I think we should either search for a top shooting perimeter defender and play DWill at the 4 or find a really long PF and keep DWill at the 3. We should mix it up and find starters with different builds and strengths. I also want at least one of our forwards to be a good passer and I don't know that Beasley fits that mold.

[SiCkSoULjA]

A co-worker told me yesterday that he heard the rumor was #6 and McGee for Minny's #2. Don't think that's been posted yet and I personally hadn't heard it before. Been ridiculously busy so maybe I missed it.

Lol that's so retarded i may boycott the Wizards next year if something like that happens. You trade one of the leagues best young centers and your first round draft pick too move up 4 spots. Kyrie is the only can't miss player in this draft and you have that position locked up.

Only way that makes since if Beasley is in the deal.

[RonArtest15]

How do you feel about Beasley though? I talked about wanting him at the beginning of the year and most people around here made some good arguments about how he'd have been a mistake. He'd scare me and I agree with the point about him being far too close to his old stomping grounds if he played for us. Plus he seems kind of soft. I'm not sure having Crawford, Beasley, and Williams all fits together because that's probably a lot of high shot guys on the floor at once. Also it's not a great defensive unit as of right now.

The biggest negative about Beasley potentially playing for the Wizards is him being in DC. From a maturity standpoint, he makes Gilbert Arenas look like Colin Powell. However, I do like his scoring ability and he can stretch the floor.

Out of curiosity, how good of a defensive team were the Chicago Bulls before Tom Thibodeaux came to town? I am a FULL advocate for a change in philosophy here in DC. I don't think Flip is the right guy for the team and there needs to be a coaching change at some point.

- Beasley is a defensive liability at the 3 and an offensive black hole. He'd be better at the 4 as a back up than at the 3 as a starter on a team that wanted to win a series in the post season.

- Crawford is too small to stay with NBA shooting guards on the defensive end.

- Williams is a tweener that has been pushed around on rebounds and while on defense in college... the NBA bigs aren't going to be nicer to him.

I think the lineup can score while the starters are on the floor but I wouldn't expect them to defend well. Plus who is scoring off the bench after Lewis gets injured?

If we retain Young, then Crawford can come off the bench. Also, I hope that some of the bench (scoring) woes can be cured by who we select with our other 1st round pick or by who we get in the 2nd round. As Wizards fans, we need to remain realistic. I'm not even thinking about the playoffs. I just want this team to win 30 games and keep improving from there. It's good that guys like John Wall have lofty expectations, but there needs to be some MAJOR moves made and a revamped roster to do so. I don't think this is going to be a 1-year, and the flip is switched type of deal. I see big things from this team 2-3 years down the road, but like I said...major moves need to be made to get Wall some help and also to shed some of the negative energy that's in the locker room.

Let's face it...this team has A LOT of holes. Also, as immature as Beasley is, do you all think he'd be less of a headache than Blatche? It's weird, I'm all for that proposed trade (because I want Blatche out by any means necessary), but it would return Beasley.

As far as Derrick Williams getting pushed around by opposing 4s, I'm not worried about it. It's a SOFT league. He'll be fine. There are plenty of 4/5 3/4 tweeners who do well while being viewed as "small" for their position.

---------- Post added June-4th-2011 at 03:13 PM ----------

I think you're selling Crawford's defensive potential short Destino. He's basically the same size and has the same reach as John Wall who is big enough to defend 2s. Both Crawford and Wall are long and both have decent strength already. Both can defend the 1 or 2 interchangeably. Each are basically as tall and long as Dwyane Wade and they'll add strength as they age.

I agree Beasley plays soft for a 3 but he's actually a really strong player and absolutely has the strength to stick with any 3 in the league if he wanted to. My problem with that lineup is that Beasley and DWill are far too similar to play beside each other. They are almost identical physically except that DWill is a tiny bit longer and heavier with a higher % of body fat and slightly slower footspeed.

I don't like the idea of putting two tweener forwards on the court together at the same time. I think we should either search for a top shooting perimeter defender and play DWill at the 4 or find a really long PF and keep DWill at the 3. We should mix it up and find starters with different builds and strengths. I also want at least one of our forwards to be a good passer and I don't know that Beasley fits that mold.

Williams/Beasley could be interchangeable at the 3/4....that gives some sort of flexibility depending on who else is on the roster. Also, I wish there was a FA out there that could provide the spark that Tony Allen did in Memphis. I just took a quick look at the 2011 FA class and I don't really know who we should target as far as getting a good perimeter defender. Also, I'm pretty sure Chris Singleton will be long gone by the time we have our 2nd 1st round pick. Let me throw this out there...if we wanted to improve our interior defense/toughness, would you all be opposed to giving Kenyon Martin a 2/3 year deal?

Here's the 2011 FA list...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=FreeAgents-11-12

you all see anything intriguing?

[Going Commando]

Derrick Williams has pretty good size and strength for a 4 and he's got a good sized trunk to go with excellent upper body strength. I wouldn't worry about DWill getting pushed around by 4s due to lack of strength. My main concern would be with his height and getting shot over because there seem to be a lot of seven foot PFs in the league and DWill's height is merely adequate for the position. Still, he's longer than Blake Griffin. Other than that, he's pretty thick and is almost as strong as Griffin. I think he'll be alright.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

A co-worker told me yesterday that he heard the rumor was #6 and McGee for Minny's #2. Don't think that's been posted yet and I personally hadn't heard it before. Been ridiculously busy so maybe I missed it.

Minnesota has come out and said that they'll keep the pick. I don't believe it though. From all reports they want a veteran big man. Phoenix is supposedly offering a package that will include Robin Lopez.

And it is also rumored that David Kahn (Timberwolves GM) wants Nash in the deal. He thinks that Nash would be a good mentor for Rubio.

Edited June 4, 2011 by BRAVEONAWARPATH

[RonArtest15]

Minnesota has come out and said that they'll keep the pick. I don't believe it though. From all reports they want a veteran big man. Phoenix is supposedly offering a package that will include Robin Lopez.

And it is also rumored that David Kahn (Timberwolves GM) wants Nash in the deal. He thinks that Nash would be a good mentor for Rubio.

For Nash's sake, I hope he's dealt to a contender (same with Grant Hill). I would absolutely HATE to see him on the T-Wolves. Honestly, I don't think the Suns would do that to him. Kahn's a little loony LOL.

[Going Commando]

Isn't Robin Lopez kind of a bust?

That package seems to make the most sense of any deal I've read about so far though. Nash does seem like a perfect mentor for Rubio.

Poor Nash though. Deal him to the Knicks Phoenix. Or back to Dallas?

Edited June 5, 2011 by stevemcqueen1

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Isn't Robin Lopez kind of a bust?

Nah, Robin isn't a bust. He was never rated that highly to begin with.

Its his brother Brook that has the high upside.

[No Excuses]

Yeah and Brook Lopez isn't very impressive either. I'd easily take Javale over him.

[skinfan2k]

yeah right i would take brooks lopez over javale. thats a no brainer

[Dukes and Skins]

From that FA list only two names kinda stood out as guys I wouldn't mind as pickups.

Ryan Hollins would be a nice backup C option behind Javale and Glen Davis as well but I doubt Davis would leave Boston

[No Excuses]

yeah right i would take brooks lopez over javale. thats a no brainer

Besides an offensive game, Lopez isn't better than Javale at anything, including defense. Even for offense, Lopez shots below 50%. He averages 2 less rebounds, 1 less block and plays 8 more minutes on average than Javale.

[skinfan2k]

Besides an offensive game, Lopez isn't better than Javale at anything, including defense. Even for offense, Lopez shots below 50%. He averages 2 less rebounds, 1 less block and plays 8 more minutes on average than Javale.

yeah big key offense the wizards need it

[No Excuses]

yeah big key offense the wizards need it

At an inefficient cost? I'd rather not have big men who chuck to score points: example. Andray Blatche.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

The NBA draft is now less than three weeks away, and teams are deep in the midst of draft workouts. Here's the latest from around the league:

• The Minnesota Timberwolves got their man -- 2009 lottery pick Ricky Rubio -- to agree to a contract this week. I wrote about what it means to the Timberwolves and Rubio on Thursday. But how will it affect their draft plans?

I think it's safe to say that with the Wolves' pick at No. 2 you can now totally rule out the chance of them drafting another point guard. David Kahn won't make that mistake again. But I think it's better than 50-50 that they won't be drafting at No. 2 at all.

That won't be Minnesota's public stance, by the way. I've been told multiple times by Wolves sources that they are keeping the pick. The last thing they want is to give the impression that there's a fire sale happening. So no, Kahn won't just be giving the pick away -- not by any stretch of the imagination.

However, I still believe there's a good chance they'll trade the pick by draft night. The team knows it has to improve its win total this year in a significant way -- 21 or 22 wins isn't going to do it.

What would it take for Minnesota to move the pick? If the Lakers offered Pau Gasol, if the Warriors offered Monta Ellis, if the Jazz offered Derrick Favors, if the Wizards offered JaVale McGee or even if the Cavs offered Anderson Varejao along with Cleveland's No. 4 pick, the Wolves would seriously have to consider trading the pick.

Edited June 5, 2011 by BRAVEONAWARPATH

[Going Commando]

Interesting. Just Javale for #2?

Would you all do it? Let's assume Derrick Williams is the pick at 2.

I'd do it. Trade coins for paper when you can and I think DWill would constitute paper for us. It still leaves us with a problem though. What the hell do we do at center?

Hope Enes Kanter falls to 6? Hope he can play center on a regular basis? That's not a terrible plan but we still need to be looking to do something with Blatche. What other centers are out there that could be nice options for us?

DeMarcus Cousins...

Also I'll take Javale over Brook Lopez too. Lopez isn't special and he fell back down to earth this season. At least Javale already does something special and he's got ass loads more upside than Lopez. Javale is a better player today and probably a significantly player down the road.

---------- Post added June-6th-2011 at 12:22 AM ----------

And if I'm the TWolves, I'd take Gasol for #2 but do the Lakers offer it? I'd also prefer Monta Ellis to Javale but I'd much rather have Javale than Derrick Favors (this isn't happening, they need veterans and Utah has absolutely no reason to move up) and I'd rather just keep #2 than take Varejao and #4.

---------- Post added June-6th-2011 at 12:27 AM ----------

Also there is no way GS offers Monta Ellis for Derrick Williams. Their forward positions are the most expensive and second most productive unit on their team. Dorrell Wright and David Lee mean they can't take DW unless they trade them instead. Minnesota won't want either of those two players since they need a 2 and a 5 and are stacked at the 3 and 4. If GS is going to move Monta Ellis, it'd be to get a PG which isn't happening at 2 since Cleveland is going Irving at 1.

I doubt the Lakers commit to a rebuild through the draft this offseason because that necessitates doing something with Kobe which the Lakers are clearly not ready to do. Gasol for #2 isn't going to happen.

Of the deals mentioned in that post, Javale for #2 is the only one that's likely to actually get offered and a package built around Javale could very well be the most attractive offer Minnesota gets for the pick...

Edited June 6, 2011 by stevemcqueen1

[RonArtest15]

Interesting. Just Javale for #2?

Would you all do it? Let's assume Derrick Williams is the pick at 2.

I'd do it. Trade coins for paper when you can and I think DWill would constitute paper for us. It still leaves us with a problem though. What the hell do we do at center?

Hope Enes Kanter falls to 6? Hope he can play center on a regular basis? That's not a terrible plan but we still need to be looking to do something with Blatche. What other centers are out there that could be nice options for us?

DeMarcus Cousins...

Also I'll take Javale over Brook Lopez too. Lopez isn't special and he fell back down to earth this season. At least Javale already does something special and he's got ass loads more upside than Lopez. Javale is a better player today and probably a significantly player down the road.

---------- Post added June-6th-2011 at 12:22 AM ----------

And if I'm the TWolves, I'd take Gasol for #2 but do the Lakers offer it? I'd also prefer Monta Ellis to Javale but I'd much rather have Javale than Derrick Favors (this isn't happening, they need veterans and Utah has absolutely no reason to move up) and I'd rather just keep #2 than take Varejao and #4.

---------- Post added June-6th-2011 at 12:27 AM ----------

Also there is no way GS offers Monta Ellis for Derrick Williams. Their forward positions are the most expensive and second most productive unit on their team. Dorrell Wright and David Lee mean they can't take DW unless they trade them instead. Minnesota won't want either of those two players since they need a 2 and a 5 and are stacked at the 3 and 4. If GS is going to move Monta Ellis, it'd be to get a PG which isn't happening at 2 since Cleveland is going Irving at 1.

I doubt the Lakers commit to a rebuild through the draft this offseason because that necessitates doing something with Kobe which the Lakers are clearly not ready to do. Gasol for #2 isn't going to happen.

Of the deals mentioned in that post, Javale for #2 is the only one that's likely to actually get offered and a package built around Javale could very well be the most attractive offer Minnesota gets for the pick...

So, if the Wizards deal Javale for the #2, who is going to play center next year? As frustrating as McGee can be, he hasn't even scratched the surface of his potential. We've seen flashes, and sooner or later he's going to figure it all out. I just don't want it to be on another team....I want it to be here, in DC. As much as I like Williams, I don't think it's a good idea to trade McGee to move up 4 slots.

[Gator Bait]

Yeah and Brook Lopez isn't very impressive either. I'd easily take Javale over him.

I'm not overly impressed with Brook Lopez, but he is definitely much better than Javale McGee...lets be real. Brook's on court basketball IQ is much higher than Javale's.

Besides an offensive game, Lopez isn't better than Javale at anything, including defense. Even for offense, Lopez shots below 50%. He averages 2 less rebounds, 1 less block and plays 8 more minutes on average than Javale.

you say besides his offensive game he isn't better than Javale at anything...but you are greatly downplaying how much better Lopez is on offense than Mcgee. Also, your shooting below 50% is only valid for one out of three years. These are Brooks shooting percentages for his first three years in the league: year 1: .531, year 2: .499, year 3: .492 career: .504.

to compare....Kevin Garnett's shooting percentage the first 3 years: .491, .499, .491

Tim Duncan: .549, .495, .490

I can list more....

I'll give you the rebound argument....neither man is utilizing their full capability to rebound. Defensively it is a wash because neither guy is a good defender. Blocks are a terrible gauge of one's defensive ability (as are steals as well)

At an inefficient cost? I'd rather not have big men who chuck to score points: example. Andray Blatche.

.504 career shooting percentage is hardly "chucking" ...comparing him to Andray Blatche is laughable.

Blatche career shooting percentage .463, Lopez: .504....big difference.

Interesting. Just Javale for #2?

Would you all do it? Let's assume Derrick Williams is the pick at 2.

there is no way they'd even consider trading #2 for Javale

I'd do it. Trade coins for paper when you can and I think DWill would constitute paper for us. It still leaves us with a problem though. What the hell do we do at center?

Hope Enes Kanter falls to 6? Hope he can play center on a regular basis? That's not a terrible plan but we still need to be looking to do something with Blatche. What other centers are out there that could be nice options for us?

If by some strange reason they would trade #2 for McGee (which the definitely wouldn't) you don't really worry about what you are going to do at center.....you just raped the **** out of another team for one of the only prospects worth a **** in this draft....I'd pick a journeyman for the year and call it a day.

At least Javale already does something special

and what might that be? Be so terrible on defense that he is constantly backtracking and comes up with highlight real blocks twice a game? I'd rather have a guy that got less highlights and just played solid defense from the start

and he's got ass loads more upside than Lopez.

the only truth to this post.

Javale is a better player today and probably a significantly player down the road.

definitely not a better player right now, and their is no guarantee he will be better down the road.

And if I'm the TWolves, I'd take Gasol for #2 but do the Lakers offer it?

I'd probably do it if I was the Lakers...they are going to have to make some major changes to their team to compete in the future...they need to dump serious salary and getting back a #2 pick in the process and a guy to build on for the future would be an ideal situation.

but I'd much rather have Javale than Derrick Favors

I'd take Favors over McGee in a heartbeat....why does everyone over value Javale McGee?

[No Excuses]

6 rebounds in 35 minutes and shot below 50% last year. Two out of his three NBA seasons he's shot below 50%. Yeah, a big man who shoots below 50% is hardly impressive. Don't really care what Duncan and Garnett did. They were, and still are, a lot more imposing on the court than Lopez has been so far. Lopez is soft, doesn't rebound, doesn't play defense, doesn't box out. None of this applies to Garnett or Duncan, even in their earlier years. Consider the factors equal, it still doesn't add up. Garnett and Duncan started their careers as power forwards and played further away from the basket than Lopez, who as a C, spends most of his time in the paint.

Javale, at least tries to do these things, is already a better rebounder, has more of a defensive impact and is a presence in the paint when his head isn't 10 inches up his own ass.

Edited June 6, 2011 by No Excuses

[SiCkSoULjA]

Thankfully someone gets it! You do not! I repeat do not trade a young center with as much potential as JaVale. McGee's problem is he's young and immature which most young guys are.

Then there's the question who is going too play center? We here on this forum under-rate McGee so much yes we see his bone head mistakes but more often then not he's getting 8+ boards and 2+ blocks a game he has a very nice field goal % and he can only get better as he learn how too offense.

JaVale is at worst going too be a 12 point, 2 block, 10 rebound player. Once he learn the offensive game that can be 16+ points.

Edited June 6, 2011 by SiCkSoULjA

[Warhead36]

I'd rather trade Blatche then McGee, but I'm going to be really disappointed if we end up with the Blatche/McGee front court again next year with no changes...

[Gator Bait]

6 rebounds in 35 minutes and shot below 50% last year. Two out of his three NBA seasons he's shot below 50%. Yeah, a big man who shoots below 50% is hardly impressive. Don't really care what Duncan and Garnett did. They were, and still are, a lot more imposing on the court than Lopez has been so far. Lopez is soft, doesn't rebound, doesn't play defense, doesn't box out. None of this applies to Garnett or Duncan, even in their earlier years. Consider the factors equal, it still doesn't add up. Garnett and Duncan started their careers as power forwards and played further away from the basket than Lopez, who as a C, spends most of his time in the paint.

Javale, at least tries to do these things, is already a better rebounder, has more of a defensive impact and is a presence in the paint when his head isn't 10 inches up his own ass.

I think the shooting percentages for Brook's first three years hold a lot more weight than your argument that he had a percentage under .500 for two out of three years....especially when one of those three years it was .499 (which might as well be rounded up to 50% in a shooting percentage argument)

I've also seen you on multiple occasions reference how in today's NBA you can classify PF and C as just simply "Bigs"...so I don't wanna hear about Garnet and Duncan playing different positions than Lopez.

the only thing you are correct on is his poor rebounding....just because Javale "tries" doesn't mean he is any better on the defensive end. Javale is TERRIBLE on defense.

---------- Post added June-6th-2011 at 11:20 AM ----------

Thankfully someone gets it! You do not! I repeat do not trade a young center with as much potential as JaVale. McGee's problem is he's young and immature which most young guys are.

Then there's the question who is going too play center? We here on this forum under-rate McGee so much yes we see his bone head mistakes but more often then not he's getting 8+ boards and 2+ blocks a game he has a very nice field goal % and he can only get better as he learn how too offense.

JaVale is at worst going too be a 12 point, 2 block, 10 rebound player. Once he learn the offensive game that can be 16+ points.

you are way too high on McGee...and block stats mean absolutely nothing when you flat out can't defend (like McGee).

[StillUnknown]

So, if the Wizards deal Javale for the #2, who is going to play center next year? As frustrating as McGee can be, he hasn't even scratched the surface of his potential. We've seen flashes, and sooner or later he's going to figure it all out. I just don't want it to be on another team....I want it to be here, in DC. As much as I like Williams, I don't think it's a good idea to trade McGee to move up 4 slots.

we hope he figures it out. I'm rooting for him, but I'm also not holding my breath.

fact is the league has left a trail of bodies of big men who never reached their "potential".

holding on to a big too long because of potential can be damaging as well

I'd rather trade Blatche then McGee, but I'm going to be really disappointed if we end up with the Blatche/McGee front court again next year with no changes...

Agreed.

Something has to change with that lineup, they don't compliment each other at all.

Edited June 6, 2011 by StillUnknown

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wizards-insider/post/big-week-of-workouts-doesnt-include-enes-kanter/2011/06/05/AGvmyeJH_blog.html

Big week of workouts doesn’t include Enes Kanter

Although he has expressed a desire to play in Washington, Enes Kanter appears to be more interested in going high in the draft. Kanter does not have a workout scheduled for the Wizards, who hold the sixth pick in the NBA draft, but the team remains hopeful that something could come together in the next few weeks – either in Chicago, where Kanter is training at Attack Athletics, or possibly in Washington.

Kanter, the 6-foot-11 Turkish center who missed all of last season at Kentucky because of NCAA eligibility violations, completed his first individual workout with Utah last Friday. He is scheduled to work out for Toronto in Chicago on Monday and will head to Cleveland on Tuesday. He has an individual workout set for Minnesota next week. Kanter spoke with the Wizards three weeks ago and worked out with other draft prospects for NBA executives and scouts at the NBA combine in Chicago. But scheduling a workout with Kanter might require a little creativity.

“Listen, we like Washington. I haven’t heard anything from them,” said Kanter’s agent, Max Ergul. “I guess they know he’s not going to be there at six. So, until they do something about it, it seems like they are not going to give me a call for workout.”

The Wizards have five workouts at Verizon Center tentatively scheduled this week, beginning on Monday, with Baltimore native and Kansas guard Josh Selby headlining. Some other notable prospects are expected to participate on Tuesday, including San Diego State forward Kawhi Leonard, Texas swingman Jordan Hamilton, and Maryland center Jordan Williams. Providence shooting guard Marshon Brooks, UCLA combo guard Malcolm Lee and Georgia shooting guard Travis Leslie will visit on Wednesday. Kansas forward Markieff Morris, Duke forward Kyle Singler and Georgia forward Trey Thompkins will participate in the Thursday workout.

With three picks among the top 34, the Wizards have to cast a wide net in the evaluation process. They will send a group to the Adidas Eurocamp, which begins Saturday in Treviso, Italy. Many of the notable international players will not workout, but Czech Republic forward Jan Vesely and Lithuanian forward Donatas Motiejunas are expected to do interviews. Ergul said he doesn’t expect anything to change, as it relates to Kanter working out for Washington, until teams return from Italy.

The Wizards have another workout scheduled on June 14, with Florida State forward Chris Singleton, Kansas forward Marcus Morris, Tennesee forward Tobias Harris and UCLA forward Tyler Honeycutt expected to participate.

Edited June 6, 2011 by BRAVEONAWARPATH