The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[No Excuses]

After watching the Bulls all season long, I DO NOT want the Wizards to follow their blueprint.

I'm all for having great/good defenders but you also need MULTIPLE players who can create thier own shot.

In an idea world I'd prefer to have a solid defensive team with the offensive punch of the pre-injury Gilbert Arenas led Wizards.

I'm just not a fan of limited offensive teams.

The Bulls failed with the Boozer signing. It also sucks relying on a guy like Korver who can shoot and do absolutely nothing else.

I wouldn't mind following the Bulls model. Ultimately what they wanted to do was pair Rose with a dominant front court. They got 3 out of the 4 right. They have three quality role playing big men. Boozer was supposed to be the stud and he did nothing. Imagine if they had Amare.

Edited May 25, 2011 by No Excuses

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

There are always going to be outliers. Because MJ could shoot with big hands doesn't really disprove anything. Apparently a majority of players with large hands struggle shooting the ball. I've been completely mystified that Rondo still struggles with that. I always thought that anyone can learn to shot. But the large hands thing explains it. And if Leonard already sucks in that category--and on offense period-vthats something to be worried about. Again, i'd rather take a shot at somebody with at leasy some star upside. If they only get halfway there, fine. We get a role player. But to start with someone with roleplayer upside? I fail to see how tthat makes any sense.

Again, Leonard at 6 is literally the absolute only conceivable pick that will piss me off. I've been waiting and waiting for someone to make a convincing argument as to why Leonard should be the pick at 6--on here and on other boards. The only thing I've seen is "he's safe." Sorry but I think that's mailing it in when we should be taking risks to take the team to the next level in the near future. That pick would say to me that Ernie is a ***** and is simply trying to not lose his job.

Edited May 25, 2011 by G.A.C.O.L.B.

[No Excuses]

Based on history, Ernie will pick the highest upside player most likely. He takes his chances with upside. We can expect a guy who might have question marks but will have the raw framework for ridiculous upside.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Based on history, Ernie will pick the highest upside player most likely. He takes his chances with upside. We can expect a guy who might have question marks but will have the raw framework for ridiculous upside.

Jan Vesely.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Jan Vesely.

Yup. If Kanter is gone he's my guy. I'm dying to see him run with John Wall.

---------- Post added May-25th-2011 at 01:26 AM ----------

Speaking of bad shooting, holy **** what the hell happened to me? I used to pride myself on my shot. I'm horrible now. I haven't really played in like ten years--a little at my vacation home in WV but was mainly a coach (and got robbed of my ring)--because of asthma and bad lungs so I'm hoping it's just rust. **** is depressing though. I need to dig up my old "Shot Doctor" VHS tape.

[CrypticVillain]

I hate the days leading up to the draft. Don't get me wrong, I am enjoying all of the possibilities you all are saying, but in the end it is like being at the club. So many options, only one choice. So you hope the one you pick gives you some good play (pun intended)

My wish list is:

Kanter

Williams

Vesely

Leonard

We pick any one of them, I can't complain.

[Going Commando]

There are always going to be outliers. Because MJ could shoot with big hands doesn't really disprove anything. Apparently a majority of players with large hands struggle shooting the ball. I've been completely mystified that Rondo still struggles with that. I always thought that anyone can learn to shot. But the large hands thing explains it. And if Leonard already sucks in that category--and on offense period-vthats something to be worried about. Again, i'd rather take a shot at somebody with at leasy some star upside. If they only get halfway there, fine. We get a role player. But to start with someone with roleplayer upside? I fail to see how tthat makes any sense.

Again, Leonard at 6 is literally the absolute only conceivable pick that will piss me off. I've been waiting and waiting for someone to make a convincing argument as to why Leonard should be the pick at 6--on here and on other boards. The only thing I've seen is "he's safe." Sorry but I think that's mailing it in when we should be taking risks to take the team to the next level in the near future. That pick would say to me that Ernie is a ***** and is simply trying to not lose his job.

Would you consider Leonard a bit more seriously at the 2? He's been trying to style himself as a 2 at the next level in his interviews. I don't see it personally. That negates his rebounding which is his greatest asset.

Chad Ford says Leonard was impressive shooting the ball at the combine. Apparently he's been working on his shot and it's improving. What if he actually has a J by the end of year one? Does that make you view him differently?

---------- Post added May-25th-2011 at 10:16 AM ----------

Based on history, Ernie will pick the highest upside player most likely. He takes his chances with upside. We can expect a guy who might have question marks but will have the raw framework for ridiculous upside.

Enes Kanter then. He's got more upside than any other player in the class. DWill might be the only other one in that strata but Kanter is bigger.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

craig (texas)

who would you draft between valaciunas, Vesely and kanter? Why?

Chad Ford

Vesely because he's a NBA athlete, has played well at the highest level. Has good upside and not a lot of risk. Kanter and Valanciunas both have bigger upsides because of their position ... but both offer more risks as well.

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/38575

---------- Post added May-26th-2011 at 11:23 AM ----------

Read this please.

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2011/5/24/2188125/kawhi-leonard-chris-singleton-tristan-thompson-markieff-morris#storyjump

---------- Post added May-26th-2011 at 11:26 AM ----------

http://www.bulletsforever.com/

Draft Express, which for my money is the most reliable of any service, has the Washington Wizards taking Enes Kanter with the No. 6 overall pick. Draft Express has Cleveland going with Jonas Valanciunas at No. 4 over Kanter, and then has Toronto taking Kemba Walker at No. 5. Draft Express then has the Wizards grabbing Tobias Harris, a 6'8'' combo forward from Tennessee, at No. 18 and JaJuan Johnson, a big man from Purdue, at No. 34.

Edited May 26, 2011 by BRAVEONAWARPATH

[Going Commando]

DX got the first 8 picks of their mock draft correct last year. I don't know nearly as much about NBA mock drafting as I do about NFL mock drafting but that seems like an insanely high success rate for the top 10.

Going 8 for 8 to start your NFL mock draft would be epic. Most people don't get 8 picks in the first round right in a typical NFL Mock Draft. I did one right before the 2010 draft and I think I got 7 or 8 picks right and felt pretty good about it.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Fwiw, Fredette is the 3rd-quickest athlete in the draft and has good strength and wingspan.

I didn't expect that.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

From another message board.

closg00 wrote:

Anyone hear Mike Woebegon interview on 980? He said that Williams wants to play with Wall also, so you've got 2 of the top-5 picks wanting to play in DC

Edited May 27, 2011 by BRAVEONAWARPATH

[Dukes and Skins]

From another message board.

I dont blame them saying that I mean think about it young could be top 5 PG by the end of next year and rare athletic ability for a PG

[Going Commando]

From another message board.

That is so unspeakably cool. Give me either of those players. DWill could be a superstar with Wall distributing to him. Does he get there on his own? I'm not so sure. It doesn't seem as likely as it would if he were playing with Wall.

We're an attractive destination right now because we're the only bad team with a void of offensive finishers and bigs and a superstar point. All of the other really good PGs play on good teams or else their team traded their lottery pick (Nets). We're the only shot some of these forwards are going to get to play with a big time point early on except for the guy who gets picked by Cleveland at 4.

Damn, I wish there was a way to get both Williams and Kanter. Would you all blow up everything we have outside Wall and trade an unprotected 2012 if it meant we could get both Williams and Kanter?

That sounds crazy, but stranger things have happened:

1.) Kanter has a good chance of falling to 6 outright because teams seem to prefer Valanciunas and Vesely and Kanter's lack of basketball (plus maybe some medical concerns) are huge flags to most teams.

2.) What does it take to pry #2 from Minnesota without giving up Wall or #6? Draft picks can be really cheap in the NBA, especially in bad lotteries like this one where the team in question has no good options at their pick. What if #18, Nick Young, 2012 first, and Javale or Blatche are enough to get the #2 pick? If not, what if we could take Darko's or Pekovic's contract on. They aren't bad deals and they're 10th man rotational bigs. Hear me out here guys:

A.) Minnesota simply can't take DWill and keep him for themselves. Doing so means they have to trade Love probably and that's not something they should be looking to do. They need to move this pick for veteran help now and future assets.

B.) Minnesota needs to move Johnny Flynn to the 3.

C.) Minnesota can't take any of the top 3 PGs in the class, they're keeping the seat warm for Rubio.

D.) Minnesota has a starting caliber 3 in Johnson, a stretch 4 in Beasley, and an undersized rebounding machine center in Love

E.) Minnesota needs a serious infusion of length in their front court because neither Beasley nor Love are particularly big and Darko can definitely be upgraded.

F.) Minnesota's biggest need is for a 2 that can come in and start immediately, play off the ball and provide outside shooting.

G.) Minnesota foolishly traded away their unprotected 2012 first (to the Clippers I believe) and would love to recoup that pick if possible

What we offer them with this deal:

A.) NY is an ideal fit as their starting 2, gives them a nice offensive punch along with Beasley, Johnson, and Love, and is ready to help this team from day one. He plays good defense too.

B.) Pick 18 is a good range for them to choose from the best role players. They've got some star power already, 18 lets them stay in the first and add developmental assets such as more shooting (Fredette/Thompson) or more defense (Singleton, Morris).

C.) Our 2012 first will probably be a top ten lottery choice so that's a nice safety net for them in case they need to add another piece or one of their current pieces doesn't fit. They get back into the first for a quality 2012 class

D.) Javale/Blatche is the icing on the cake. I'd vastly prefer to trade them Blatche than Javale, but they might not be interested in that since Blatche technically swings between the 3 and the 4 where they're loaded. But Javale also replicates what they get from Darko and isn't a huge upgrade over Darko anyway. Blatche's scoring and rebounding numbers might be enough to keep them satisfied with him and he's definitely got the name recognition, plus his contract fits within their salary structure. If they traded for Blatche, then you could play him at the 4 and Love at the 5 and just use Blatche's length to defend the really stretchy players (this is what they could be talking themselves into).

When Rubio finally comes over, this is what Minnesota's young core would be:

1 - Rubion, Flynn

2 - NY, Johnson

3 - Johnson, Beasley, Singleton?

4 - Blatche/Love, Beasley

5 - Love/Blatche, Darko

That's a deep, young, talented team where the pieces actually start to fit together. Mainly though, Minnesota then has a surplus amount of developmental talent to take a legit run at a Superstar who some team knows they can't resign and they won't have to give up Kevin Love to make it happen. They probably don't even have to give up anyone in their top 2 or 3 to make it happen really, especially when you factor in they'd have our 2012 first. They can probably field one of the best offers for Chris Paul or Deron Williams since they can build a package around Rubio. Even better, they can field some very interesting offers for either Howard or Bynum/Gasol and probably keep Rubio. A Rubio, Love, Bynum core is pretty awesome, especially since they'll have leftovers to comfortably fill out their 2 and 3 spots with good scoring starters.

Why it makes sense for us:

A.) We basically need to get rid of Blatche and Javale is hardly irreplaceable. Finding a starting C would become a need if Javale is the big traded, but we've upgraded our 3 and 4 spots so substantially we can weather the hit, especially since Kanter is big enough to play center on a somewhat limited basis. What we'd then do is make a run at DeMarcus Cousins in another year or two. If Blatche is the big included, then brilliant. We've solved a problem and we're replacing him with Kanter anyway.

B.) We have to figure something out with Nick Young. Truth be told, how likely is he to extend with us if we aren't going to start him? Jordan Crawford is our future at the two, he's the second banana to Wall and the FO and coaches and Wall all seem to love him. It'd suck to lose a valuable player like NY when he's just now entering his prime. But it'd suck even more to lose him for nothing. Bottom line is we've got a starting caliber 2 on our hands where the sky is the limit with him. NY is part of a deal that gives us a chance at getting a potential blue-chip combo forward. Always trade coins for paper.

C.) We don't really need pick 18 if we draft both Kanter and DWill. We should start looking for veteran help instead of drafting more rookies at that point.

D.) We don't have to give up Crawford because Minnesota needs Young a lot more than they need another PG or combo guy. Therefore, we keep our second best piece.

E.) Losing the 2012 lotto pick would slightly suck but maybe we can get top 3 protection on it? Actually I'd probably insist on that since we're giving up so much across the board already. I think we've got a chance at mid to late lottery status next year because Wall and Crawford are about to make leaps and bounds (kind of like Curry and Ellis did with GS recently). The 2012 first would probably be necessary to sweeten the pot enough to beat the other offers Minnesota might receive for DWill. If we're picking 9-14 in next year's lottery then who cares about losing it? DWill stacks up favorably against all of the top prospects in next year's class except Anthony Davis, Quincy Miller (maybe), Michael Gilchrist. DWill is as good as Harrison Barnes, far more proven than Perry Jones, better than Jared Sullinger and all of the other top returning sophomores.

I'd rather have DWill and Kanter in 2011 than Kanter in 2011 and John Henson or Austin Rivers or someone in 2012.

And if we're incredibly lucky and you get the pick top 3 protected and we get lucky and pick much earlier than we're supposed to, then you can just take Michael Gilchrist and start him at the 3, DWill at the 4, Kanter at the 5, and have Javale come off the bench when we need length and above the rim defense.

Let's say we move Blatche, Young, #18, 2012 first, and take on a questionable contract to get DWill.

This is our new long term core:

1 - Wall

2 - Crawford

3 - Williams, Booker

4 - Kanter, Dwilliams, Booker

5 - McGee, Seraphin

That's a freaking awesome group. It's got tons of size since DWill, Kanter, and McGee is a huge front line far bigger than the league average.

-- It's got two guards who can create off the dribble and facilitate interchangeably (extremely difficult to defend when both are on the floor together and we ensure we've always got a quality PG on the floor). No team could ever defend us and shut us down the way the Heat shut down Chicago. Wall/Crawford is a deadly 1-2 punch.

-- It's got excellent outside shooting and finishing ability from the wing plus the guy has a big body with the potential for an excellent post game later in his development. He'll be a tremendous rebounder at his position and can slide over to the 4 when we want to go fast. He gives us an elite pick and roll or pick and pop outlet to make Wall's life easier. He has nasty defensive potential on the perimeter and can even guard 4s comfortably.

-- Perimeter stopping plus the ability to defend the 4 from Booker.

-- It's got excellent low post scoring and rebounding from Kanter who can even slide out to the wing occasionally because he can shoot. He brings the paint toughness and rebounding machine we don't have. Him at the 4 and DWill at the 3 is so perfect. They complement each other beautifully because of DWill's speed and outside shooting and Kanters big body and toughness and comfort level banging in the paint.

-- It's got finishing and shotblocking from Javale who is long enough to contest shots from anyone in the league. We don't have to worry about guys like Chris Bosh shooting over us constantly. Javale gives us second chance points and more finishing like DWill.

That's a freaking awesome core IMO. It's the seeds of a championship caliber team and all we'd have to do is sit back and let these young guys grow together. Sign Othyus Jeffers for his perimeter defense and more rebounding. Find another backup PG to pace Wall and Crawford when they get injured/gassed. Find another catch and shoot 3 point man a la Peja Stojakovich to give you another threat when the bigs are compressing the defense in the middle (Davis Bertans at 34?). Then that's basically it. You have your 10 man group and a really, really good 8 or 9 man rotation.

This trade makes sense for both sides. The only reason Minnesota shouldn't take that deal is if they get a far better offer from another team.

I dont blame them saying that I mean think about it young could be top 5 PG by the end of next year and rare athletic ability for a PG

Do you mean Wall? If so, I think you're right that he'll be a top 5 PG by the end of next year. I think he'll be the best PG by the end of year 3.

Chris Paul is the only other PG in John Wall's way. Deron Williams maybe but I doubt it.

[Warhead36]

I don't think it's wanting to play with Wall as much as it's NOT wanting to play in Cleveland, Minnesota, Utah, or Toronto.

[Dukes and Skins]

I don't think it's wanting to play with Wall as much as it's NOT wanting to play in Cleveland, Minnesota, Utah, or Toronto.

I mean it also doesn't come around often playing with a gifted PG like Wall. Yes some of it is not wanting to play there but also you have John Wall a guy who is probably going to make that step to top 5 PG status after next year, why wouldn't you want to play with him?

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

No chance I'm trading next years 1st. I like Kanter and Williams is Williams, but this is called a weak draftt for a reason. I think it's shortsighted and I think it reeks of illogical mancrush. You yourself has said many a times that next years class is exponentially better. I think odds are we're going to be back in the lottery next year. Ask the Clippers how trading unprotected 1sts works out. I don't want to be the Clippers of the East anymore.

Kyle Singler has a 23" vertical. Hilarious. I think I might be able to jump that.

Oh and you better believe that Calipari has been in Kanter's ear about playing with Wall. That's the rumor.

Edited May 28, 2011 by G.A.C.O.L.B.

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

Kyle Singler has a 23" vertical. Hilarious. I think I might be able to jump that.

I think mine is like that too...I just cant get the ball over the rim and I'm 6'5...I can palm a 7 foot ceiling without standing on my toes

Edited May 28, 2011 by The Brave Little Toaster Oven

[Destino]

Wilbon said that Leonard wasn't any good enough to take with a top 15 pick on 980 today.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Sources: Cavs eye trade to add 2nd pick

Already owners of the No. 1 pick in the draft, the Cleveland Cavaliers are trying to sweeten their position by securing the second pick as well, according to league sources.

The Cavaliers are in discussions with the Minnesota Timberwolves and Detroit Pistons about a three-team trade that would give Cleveland the top two picks of next month's NBA draft.

The Cavaliers would use the picks to select Duke point guard Kyrie Irving and Arizona forward Derrick Williams, the sources said.

In the trade being discussed, Cleveland would absorb Detroit's Richard Hamilton into the $14.6 million trade exception it received in last summer's LeBron James sign-and-trade with Miami, while also receiving the Pistons' No. 8 pick. The Cavaliers would then send that pick, along with their fourth pick, to Minnesota for the Timberwolves' second pick.

Cleveland would then buy Hamilton out of the $25 million remaining in the last two years on his contract, leaving the veteran shooting guard free to sign with another club as a free agent. Chicago would be one of the likeliest destinations.

Cleveland nearly traded for Hamilton at the February trade deadline with the intention of buying him out. In that scenario, Hamilton would have signed with Chicago after the buyout. The motivation for Detroit, which has been looking to move Hamilton for years, is mainly financial.

Whether the trade comes to fruition or not, the Cavaliers are all but certain to use the No. 1 pick on Irving, a favorite of the team's front office. The club's owner, Dan Gilbert, is a huge fan of Williams and sees him and Irving as building blocks for the future.

While one of the Cavaliers' greatest needs is at small forward, Williams, though viewed as a 'tweener, is seen by most league executives as a power forward. If the Cavs draft Williams and determine that he can't play small forward, they may deal power forward J.J. Hickson, who has good value on the trade market.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2011/news/story?id=6603100

Edited May 28, 2011 by BRAVEONAWARPATH

[Warhead36]

I'd only trade next year's first if it's lottery protected. Way too much talent in next year's lottery picks to trade it away for questionable players in a weak class.

[skinfan2k]

Actually I wouldnt mind having Rip for 2 season at 25 mil for the Cavs even if they cant buy him out. That would give them a solid foundation for the future and remain competitive while they rebuild. Irving, Rip, Jamison , D. Williams and Vareajo/Hickson would be a nice team.

[Warhead36]

Rip has turned into a malcontent in recent years. Maybe it's because he's gone from winning every year to losing, I don't know, but I'd stay away from him if I were a rebuilding club.

[Going Commando]

I doubt that deal between Cleveland, Detroit, and Minnesota gets done as is. Cleveland is surrendering too little and Detroit is getting too little in return.

Cleveland is going to have to give up players if they want that pick. Who do they have besides Hickson that anyone wants?

---------- Post added May-29th-2011 at 11:49 AM ----------

It's also not really a three team deal since Detroit and Minnesota aren't really swapping anything directly. It's two separate Cleveland trades.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I doubt that deal between Cleveland, Detroit, and Minnesota gets done as is. Cleveland is surrendering too little and Detroit is getting too little in return.

Cleveland is going to have to give up players if they want that pick. Who do they have besides Hickson that anyone wants?

---------- Post added May-29th-2011 at 11:49 AM ----------

It's also not really a three team deal since Detroit and Minnesota aren't really swapping anything directly. It's two separate Cleveland trades.

According to David Aldridge, Detroit's not in the mix.

The proposed deal is just between the Cavs and Timberwolves

[Going Commando]

According to David Aldridge, Detroit's not in the mix.

The proposed deal is just between the Cavs and Timberwolves

I wonder what Cleveland can offer them then? If Minnesota is seriously listening then the second overall pick must be cheaper than I thought if #4 and one of Cleveland's players is enough to get it done.