Caps '10-'11 Thread [Offseason Discussion]

[Hersh]

Thank you. As angry as I am at our sweep and I still believe a big roster move is needed (cough trade Semin), this team is young. Cups take experience.

Getting back to Semin for a second. I'm in agreement with you about trading him, but I wonder what his trade value is at the moment. At the moment, he might be viewed as a rental player since he has been staying on these one year contracts. I would think any trade would have to involve another team having the chance to negotiate with him for an extension in order to get max value. Otherwise, what do you think it fair compensation trade-wise?

[Sticksboi05]

Max Talbot is my main bottom 6 target. I'd swap him for Chimera 10 times out of 10 for the price, although that probably might not go well in the dressing room. I'd bring in Talbot regardless because Bradley's likely gone, he's a guy who's scoring goes up in playoffs, he can play center or wing, and he's won a Cup. Markov would be a good fit, but not for the money. Scottie Upshall would be another guy to upgrade the bottom 6 who can play the right side. He's a flat out annoying player who would make them tougher to play against.

Defensively speaking, it's going to be tough sledding. They don't have a ton of money to spend back there right now. Markov is the best fit, but he's coming off of injuries and is going to make too much. Maybe they take a run at Bieksa? I don't know. I really don't think Hannan will be back so, but I don't think there's a lot out there to be had. People are going to bring up Jovo Cop, but he's been a shell of himself since leaving Vancouver. Solid vet, but would need a severe discount to consider him.

EDIT: Green will stay. Too dynamic to get equal value. Semin should go, even if it's for futures and salary cap room. I am of the mind that the core group needs to be shaken up, and he's a luxury item.

---------- Post added May-16th-2011 at 12:45 PM ----------

I don't see how Washington compares to San Jose, but people keep doing it. Since 2004, San Jose has 3 Conference Finals appearances, and has only lost in the 1st round once. I keep saying that Sharks fans should be offended by being compared to the Washington Capitals. These last two post seasons were literally historic choke jobs.

Whoopde do, losing in the 2nd round or in the 1st round is the same result for teams that consistently finish near the top of their conference and win their division. Failure.

And yes, I'm fully aware they;ve made the WCF's two years in a row, which is why I said, they've learned what it takes, and here they are, once again, with a chance to battle for the Cup.

---------- Post added May-16th-2011 at 01:10 PM ----------

Getting back to Semin for a second. I'm in agreement with you about trading him, but I wonder what his trade value is at the moment. At the moment, he might be viewed as a rental player since he has been staying on these one year contracts. I would think any trade would have to involve another team having the chance to negotiate with him for an extension in order to get max value. Otherwise, what do you think it fair compensation trade-wise?

I don't know but that is why they should've dealt him after last year's playoff choke. He came off a career year with 40 goals. We could've gotten away with robbery.

[Hersh]

You guys want to come up with some good questions and see if we can't get a couple answered?

http://capitals.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=562939

Ted Leonsis to Participate in Owner’s Corner on WashingtonCaps.com

Monday, 05.16.2011 / 12:20 PM / News

Washington Capitals

ARLINGTON, Va. – The Washington Capitals have announced today that they will host an Owner’s Corner with founder, chairman, majority owner and chief executive officer of Monumental Sports Ted Leonsis on Thursday, May 19, at 1 p.m. exclusively on WashingtonCaps.com.

The interview will be hosted by senior writer Mike Vogel and streamed live on WashingtonCaps.com. The session will feature Leonsis answering questions from fans regarding the Washington Capitals and their off-season plans for the upcoming campaign. Fans who are interested in participating can submit, in advance via email, their questions to Ownerscorner@washcaps.com or on AOL instant messenger at “CapitalsReport”.

[HEavyJumbo85]

Whoopde do, losing in the 2nd round or in the 1st round is the same result for teams that consistently finish near the top of their conference and win their division. Failure.

And yes, I'm fully aware they;ve made the WCF's two years in a row, which is why I said, they've learned what it takes, and here they are, once again, with a chance to battle for the Cup.

Well, it's the the new wave of young talent that's pushing them over the top, Pavelski is the anti-Marleau in terms of clutch, and Couture can actually score in playoffs (Who they got with the 9th pick in the '05 draft because the order was F'ed). But they wouldn't have the young talent had the Sharks not had an unreal amount of "luck" to acquire veteran superstars for nothing. They stole Thornton, Heatley, and Dan Boyle. I think that expecting the Capitals to acquire All-Star caliber impact players without giving up young talent is unrealistic. The San Jose model is a tough one to follow in that regard, and I don't think anything about the Capitals really applies outside of not getting to the Cup finals recently, but you could say that about quite a few teams.

[pjfootballer]

Fans are hurting Sticks

It hurts to be in this thread

I believe I invested my all into this team and I feel cheated

That's just my opinion

That right there is why it makes me ill to talk Caps hockey. I want the playoffs to be over with before I get back to hockey talk. It's hard to watch other teams win cups anymore. I haven't watched one game since we were eliminated. I really thought we'd turn the corner and at least get to the conference finals.

[Homercles82]

That right there is why it makes me ill to talk Caps hockey. I want the playoffs to be over with before I get back to hockey talk. It's hard to watch other teams win cups anymore. I haven't watched one game since we were eliminated. I really thought we'd turn the corner and at least get to the conference finals.

If you haven't watched a game since they were ousted you have missed some killer games.

[capcrunch98]

Well, it's the the new wave of young talent that's pushing them over the top, Pavelski is the anti-Marleau in terms of clutch, and Couture can actually score in playoffs (Who they got with the 9th pick in the '05 draft because the order was F'ed). But they wouldn't have the young talent had the Sharks not had an unreal amount of "luck" to acquire veteran superstars for nothing. They stole Thornton, Heatley, and Dan Boyle. I think that expecting the Capitals to acquire All-Star caliber impact players without giving up young talent is unrealistic. The San Jose model is a tough one to follow in that regard, and I don't think anything about the Capitals really applies outside of not getting to the Cup finals recently, but you could say that about quite a few teams.

I don't understand what you mean here. Those players were all acquired by San Jose via trade, with the Sharks sending along high draft picks and players who at the time were considered top prospects. Just because the trades turned out to be "steals" in hindsight doesn't detract from the fact that San Jose GM Doug Wilson had some big stones and good foresight to make the deals. Caps GM George McPhee has just as many resources (current player personnel, prospects, draft picks, and financial backing from management) to make these deals. Instead of chalking other GMs good moves up to "luck", why are we not asking some tough questions about Geroge McPhee (who has been on the job 14 years and has 2 playoff series wins, not counting the Cup Finals run 100 years ago with a team built by someone else)?

[pjfootballer]

If you haven't watched a game since they were ousted you have missed some killer games.

Too depressing. When I see young teams like Pittsburgh, TB, Vancouver and Chicago rebuild around the same time we do and get further, it gets depressing.

[capcrunch98]

Too depressing. When I see young teams like Pittsburgh, TB, Vancouver and Chicago rebuild around the same time we do and get further, it gets depressing.

I agree with you completely. Some of GMGMs biggest defenders will argue that it takes upwards of 10 years to build a championship team, yet several other clubs have proven that's not the case.

The Caps began their rebuild in 2003, and Ted and George declared the rebuild to be "over" after the 2009 playoffs (when the Caps made the second round and lost in 7 games). Since then they have accomplished next to nothing in the postseason (I am convinced that if they drew any playoff team other than the Rangers, they would have been bounced in the first round).

[PokerPacker]

On the Kuznetsov/Semin commentary, I can say from having watched Kuznetsov that he doesn't play like Semin. Another pick in that draft could be compared to Semin, though, and that would be Stanislav Galiev. Galiev's a finesse player with some pretty nifty moves. I saw him pull off a beautiful spin move during the rookie scrimmage and he's got some dangles.

[Sticksboi05]

Max Talbot is my main bottom 6 target. I'd swap him for Chimera 10 times out of 10 for the price, although that probably might not go well in the dressing room. I'd bring in Talbot regardless because Bradley's likely gone, he's a guy who's scoring goes up in playoffs, he can play center or wing, and he's won a Cup. Markov would be a good fit, but not for the money. Scottie Upshall would be another guy to upgrade the bottom 6 who can play the right side. He's a flat out annoying player who would make them tougher to play against.

I like the way you think. Talbot and Upshall are two I'd LOVE on our bottom 6.

[HEavyJumbo85]

I don't understand what you mean here. Those players were all acquired by San Jose via trade, with the Sharks sending along high draft picks and players who at the time were considered top prospects. Just because the trades turned out to be "steals" in hindsight doesn't detract from the fact that San Jose GM Doug Wilson had some big stones and good foresight to make the deals. Caps GM George McPhee has just as many resources (current player personnel, prospects, draft picks, and financial backing from management) to make these deals. Instead of chalking other GMs good moves up to "luck", why are we not asking some tough questions about Geroge McPhee (who has been on the job 14 years and has 2 playoff series wins, not counting the Cup Finals run 100 years ago with a team built by someone else)?

That's kind of revisionist history too. Those players were considered top prospects at ONE time, but not at the time of their respective deals. The Thorton deal cost Mike O'Connell his job, and rightfully so. Sturm and Brad Stuart had already developed into average NHLers and Wayne Primeau was a 4th line player. Not one of those players had upside. Stuart was good as a rookie, but didn't really find his game until he was traded to Detroit a few years ago. The Thornton deal was crushed at the time and still is. No risk for Dougie Wilson at all, especially since Thornton had just signed a nice extension at a good price with Boston.

Matt Carle's offensive production had fallen off the face of the Earth the year before he was traded, and his money wasn't made in his own end. Given that they had a chance to get one of the best offensive D's in the league in his prime for a soft offensive D man who had trouble scoring, I don't remember anyone liking that trade at the time for Tampa. If McPhee could package Jeff Schultz and a late 1st to get a useful player, much less an All Star offensive D at 30 years old, I'd be pretty happy. Tampa loved Matt Carle so much that they immediately flipped him to Philly...for Steve Eminger. He turned out to be a good player, so San Jose ended up giving away something in hindsight (which is the opposite of what you're arguing here).

The Heatley trade was a joke. Michalek is nice, but at the end of their respective 6 year extensions that they had both signed the previous year, Michalek was actually going to be making more money than Heatley anyway. Heatley proven 50 goal scorer>Michalek consistent 50 point player. Add in that San Jose got to dump Cheecho's horrible contract and got a draft choice back too. I again fail to see the risk by Dougie Wilson.

Deals where teams absolutely feel the need to get rid of a Superstar don't come around too often, but San Jose has walked into 3 of them. While I disagree about Wilson having big stones to make those moves, I do agree that McPhee needs to take risks. You aren't going to get a team calling you to give your their gamechanger for whatever package you can cobble together, but you can't sit on your hands, stick by your coach, and then keep taking shots with the same core of guys.

This is where I'm conflicted, because they lack an identity. It's hard to pinpoint specific players as the problem, because I don't honestly know how you expect a team to have discipline and structure if they A) don't preach it or don't have a structured system to preach in the first place. Developing an organizational identity is point number 1 for me this offseason, and until they do that they'll kind of be twisting in the wind. Without an identity, it's hard to find a coach that shares your philosophy, and it's impossible to find the "right" players for your team.

[Homercles82]

Too depressing. When I see young teams like Pittsburgh, TB, Vancouver and Chicago rebuild around the same time we do and get further, it gets depressing.

They made better moves, got lucky, or had better coaching. Possibly all 3. It is tough to watch the Caps lose like they do despite stellar regular seasons. The thing no one can agree upon is what is keeping them from finally reaching the peak. Coaching? Soft/lazy players? Discipline? The team wasn't soft in the regular season, but it seemed in the TB series they abandonded everything they learned in the regular season, and got their asses beat.

[pjfootballer]

Yeah, if I wanted to watch a team lose constantly, I'd watch the Wizards. With the Wiz, Skins and O's sucking over the past 20 years, the Caps were my only hope and they've been a bigger disappointment because they are the one team I was counting on to do something. They others, I have no expectations for.

[darklight1216]

Yeah, if I wanted to watch a team lose constantly, I'd watch the Wizards. With the Wiz, Skins and O's sucking over the past 20 years, the Caps were my only hope and they've been a bigger disappointment because they are the one team I was counting on to do something. They others, I have no expectations for.

I gave up on the Caps after last year's choke job. Now I just watch their playoffs game without expecting for them to do much. It was actually more fun this year because I didn't think that getting out of the first round was a given so I was pleasantly surprised.

[Mooney]

I gave up on the Caps after last year's choke job.

Typical, front-running Baltimore fan.

[lovetoaster]

Typical, front-running Baltimore fan.

Let's try not to start that in this thread.

[Sticksboi05]

I gave up on the Caps after last year's choke job. Now I just watch their playoffs game without expecting for them to do much. It was actually more fun this year because I didn't think that getting out of the first round was a given so I was pleasantly surprised.

Dude, you are in some alternate world where you think every team just makes the playoffs and wins a Cup after like three seasons.

[Sticksboi05]

See how Tampa's STARS are willing to go into the corners, get down to block shots and are not predictable at all. When #19 and #8 enter the zone, I know exactly what's coming. Never see Semin consistently getting dirty. St. Louis is just a player. His hockey IQ is so high.

Don't see him or Vinny constantly ending offensive possessions and momentum with towering wrist shots 80 feet high.

(McPhee if you can't engineer a solid deal for Semin...)

[Warhead36]

To be fair, St. Louis and Lecavalier are both well into their 30s. Remember early in his career Lecavalier was considered immature as well. Just saying, sometimes it does take time. I do agree with your ultimate point that we should deal Semin though.

[Sticksboi05]

To be fair, St. Louis and Lecavalier are both well into their 30s. Remember early in his career Lecavalier was considered immature as well. Just saying, sometimes it does take time. I do agree with your ultimate point that we should deal Semin though.

I see Stamkos making high IQ plays and doing dirty work also.

[capcrunch98]

Those players were considered top prospects at ONE time, but not at the time of their respective deals.

You make some good points, but my original argument still stands: if stars like Thornton, Heatley, and Boyle were there for the taking, where was George McPhee in all this? Unless McPhee is somehow blackballed by other NHL GMs (which I don't think is the case), he surely had the chance to make an offer for each of these players. I just don't see how you can attribute another GMs ability to pull off these deals as "luck" and not at the same time wonder where our GM was and why he wasn't out there trying to make his own "luck".

As I said before, discounting the Cup Finals run in his first year here (with a team built by his predecessor), McPhee's Capitals teams have been dreadful where it matters most - the playoffs. 2 series wins in the past 13 years is the same rate of success as the Redskins. On the heels of 2 very heartbreaking postseasons, it's amazing that more people aren't questioning his performance.

[Homercles82]

Just wanted to chime in on my NHL '11 season update. I drew NJ in the first round of the playoffs after winning the President's Cup. I went up 2-0 at home then got my ass handed to me in Game 3, 4-2 and was outplayed by a mile. Then in game 4 I went up 2-0 in the 2nd period only to be outscored 3-0 in the 3rd. So now the series is headed back to Washington tied at 2-2 and I have no answers for their D.

This game is so realistic they built in the Capital Collapse.

Any suggestions on beating a D that is set up to protect the net? When I enter the zone they have 4 guys crowding the net.

[HEavyJumbo85]

Just wanted to chime in on my NHL '11 season update. I drew NJ in the first round of the playoffs after winning the President's Cup. I went up 2-0 at home then got my ass handed to me in Game 3, 4-2 and was outplayed by a mile. Then in game 4 I went up 2-0 in the 2nd period only to be outscored 3-0 in the 3rd. So now the series is headed back to Washington tied at 2-2 and I have no answers for their D.

This game is so realistic they built in the Capital Collapse.

Any suggestions on beating a D that is set up to protect the net? When I enter the zone they have 4 guys crowding the net.

Any way to trade for Datsyuk and Lidstrom really quick? Puck movement so they move, get point shots through, and have somebody going to the net. In real life a goalie would give up rebounds because it's hard to see through a bunch of guys in front of you. Then all you have to do is beat the D to the rebound. I still play NHL 09 though, so collapsing D gives you no trouble there. Point shots are pretty much the offense.

---------- Post added May-19th-2011 at 11:07 AM ----------

You make some good points, but my original argument still stands: if stars like Thornton, Heatley, and Boyle were there for the taking, where was George McPhee in all this? Unless McPhee is somehow blackballed by other NHL GMs (which I don't think is the case), he surely had the chance to make an offer for each of these players. I just don't see how you can attribute another GMs ability to pull off these deals as "luck" and not at the same time wonder where our GM was and why he wasn't out there trying to make his own "luck".

As I said before, discounting the Cup Finals run in his first year here (with a team built by his predecessor), McPhee's Capitals teams have been dreadful where it matters most - the playoffs. 2 series wins in the past 13 years is the same rate of success as the Redskins. On the heels of 2 very heartbreaking postseasons, it's amazing that more people aren't questioning his performance.

I definitely agree with the GMGM questioning, and don't get me started on "luck", but I didn't agree with your point about Doug Wilson having to have big onions to go make those deals. They all fell into his lap.

Mike O'Connell initiated the Thornton to San Jose deal; he wanted to shake up the Bruins and it came down to San Jose wanting to shake up their core as well. O'Connell knew trading his Captain was a big deal and he wanted to keep trade talks low key. He was only going to send Thornton to the Western conference, so he talked to Dale Tallon of the Blackhawks, who was just looking to make any kind of deal in general, and Doug Wilson in San Jose. Once he found out that Chicago would only be willing to move picks and prospects, he dealt exclusively with Doug Wilson, who was willing to part with NHL ready pieces of his core, albeit players that had topped out. He never declared open season on Thornton and basically dealt with San Jose only. Doug Wilson said Scott Hannan and Patrick Marleau were untouchable, and O'Connell, being desperate and stupid was ok with that.

Boyle trade was Tampa doing Boyle a favor. He had a No Trade clause, so Tampa basically said "you're going to waive it, or we're going to waive you and you'll end up in Atlanta." Boyle agreed, but he wanted to be dealt to San Jose. The only pressure there was that San Jose had to offer something that Tampa would find to be reasonably fair, because they really were ready to let him go for nothing.

Heatley is the most well documented. Ottawa had a deal in place with Edmonton for a package centered around Cogliano++, but Heatley also had a NTC and blocked that deal, and said San Jose or I'm sitting out. Same kind of pressure as the Boyle deal because Ottawa almost was ready to move on without him.

McPhee is conservative by nature and he's held onto prospects way too long, especially since the start of the rebuild, Chris Bourque being the most obvious. I understand believing in your draft as much as the next guy, but those prospects are assets and can be used as currency. It's about that time to part with one in favor of a veteran leader if you can find the right guy. I mean, it's nice to look at Kuznetsov and Orlov, and Eakin and think of how awesome they could be, but I remember when Oskar Osala was a 6'4" power forward who could skate, score goals, and was the Rookie of the Year in the Finnish Men's league as an 18 year old kid. McPhee eventually parted with him when his value was almost nothing as a piece in the Joe Corvo deal, and now he's likely going back to Europe at the end of this AHL season. If you're a GM who's truly comfortable with your ability to find value in the draft, then you shouldn't fear losing a prospect. His track record in the later rounds, however, is less than stellar.

[ixcuincle]

Atlanta is relocating to Winnipeg. This means there will be a new SE division opponent next year.

It's yet to be determined who the new inductee will be but speculation is Columbus.

"TedStarkey: Pioneer Press out of St. Paul reports Columbus will slide into the Southeast next season, Minnesota to the Central, Winnipeg to Northwest.

Nashville makes more sense but that's better than keeping the division intact another year."

---------- Post added May-19th-2011 at 09:39 PM ----------

Alright, I've been doing a lot of research on HF and the deal is not finalized, so ATL will remain a SE adversary for now. There's a lot of speculation that suggests a deal could be finalized soon, meaning rival ATL heads off to Winnipeg.

It's a shame markets have to have their teams taken away from them. I hope that ATL is somehow able to maintain their team, but it appears unlikely.