Sticksboi05 Posted May 28, 2011 Author Share Posted May 28, 2011 Note to McPhee - not a single Alex Semin on the Bruins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 There is the major time zone issue with Nashville going to the Southeast. I think that'd be absolutely unforgiveable if the NHL moved a Central time team to the East ahead of the two on EST. Columbus is the team that has to move if the NHL is committed to Detroit staying in the West, which they seem to be for the sake of not leaving Chicago as the only Original 6 over there.As it stands right now, Dallas has the most room to complain. Central time zone team that has everyone in their division on Pacific time with the exception of Phoenix who is technically on MST up until playoffs. If anyone moves into the Central it has to be them, and seeing as they used to be the North Stars, being back with old Norris division rivals would work well. Minnesota to Winnipeg is much closer than Minny to Detroit, in terms of driving miles, so that's a rivalry that could develop. Minny has more in common with the teams in the Canadian Praries anyway. The Manitoba team is going to be marketed as an area team, ie Saskatchewan, North Dakota, etc. If North Dakota embraces the Manitoba team, there's already the WCHA rivalry that exists. That's how I see it right now, but you're right in that they'd be better off going back to 2 divisions per conference. The uneven teams could make the playoff setup weird if they tried to emulate the old playoff format, but they could make it work. Or they could keep it 1-8 like it is now. All I know is that, with this format, the Southeast has the potential to get even more boring, and I didn't think that was possible. So, you move Columbus into the SE (doesn't sound right), Dallas into the Central and Winnipeg to the NW? Then you'd have to send Vancouver or Colorado to the Pacific to replace Dallas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Thrashers are pretty much gone now. http://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/statuses/75512508378652672 David Thomson is on our flight to Wpg. Good sign the announcement is today!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEavyJumbo85 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 So, you move Columbus into the SE (doesn't sound right), Dallas into the Central and Winnipeg to the NW? Then you'd have to send Vancouver or Colorado to the Pacific to replace Dallas. Like I said before, moving Nashville instead of Columbus/Detroit would be a crime. As far as Columbus goes, it's a joke, as a young, still developing fan base, that they have to put up with almost all of their divisional games starting at 8/8:30. They spend more time in the Pacific time zone than the Capitals spend in the state of New York. It's ridiculous now; it'd be more ridiculous if they moved a Central time team to the Southeast because of a perceived common fit. I wish they would have never gone to the "regional" division naming system, because it creates that hang up of saying "Columbus isn't a southeastern team", well fyi neither is Washington really. Dallas has a similar problem to Columbus, that I noted earlier. Central time and a signifigcant portion of their schedule is in the Pacific. That time difference is underrated as far as "level of awfulness" goes. I would be a big fan of going back to 2 divisions per conference, and while it might be awkward at first with an 8/7 setup, there will likely be 32 teams by the end of the decade. They could maybe try to put old rivalries back together; maybe all the original 6 teams in the same division. Then I would go back to the old playoff format of top 4 in each division make it and play each other in the 1st two rounds. This will likely never happen though. Original 6 division: Montreal Boston Toronto Detroit Chicago Rangers Ottawa Buffalo Old Patrick division teams: Islanders Devils Capitals Penguins Flyers Hurricanes Panthers Old Norris division teams: Tampa Columbus Nashville St. Louis Dallas Minnesota Manitoba Pacific teams: Calgary Vancouver Colorado San Jose Phoenix LA Anaheim Edmonton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Pending approval by BoG, Thrashers are dead. Team will play out of the Southeast Division in the Eastern Conference for one year before NHL realignment kicks in. Also, McKenzie just tweeted the team won't be called the Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEavyJumbo85 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Pending approval by BoG, Thrashers are dead.Also, McKenzie just tweeted the team won't be called the Jets. I know people wanted hockey back in Winnipeg, but the way that it's playing out is probably worse than the worst case people would have imagined. 1. Atlanta moving screws up the divisions 2. The travel with Manitoba in the Southeast is painful, and that team will break the record for most miles traveled. Just no chance they win this year. 3. They won't be the Jets and there's a better than 50/50 shot they'll be called the "Manitoba Polar Bears", which would immediately become the worst team name in North American professional sports history. Not a great accomplishment, haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Manitoba??? Any reason why they won't go back to the Winnipeg Jets? Is it because the Coyotes hold their history? And HJ85, I'm not sure I'm down with your new division alignments. The original 6 is a distant memory to most modern hockey fans. The Rangers have too many rivals from the old Patrick division to be away from Philly, Washington, NYI, NYJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted May 31, 2011 Author Share Posted May 31, 2011 The NHL needs to realign by letting us leave the Southeast. Put Dallas in there. Put us with Philly and Pittsburgh like we should be. ---------- Post added May-31st-2011 at 10:14 AM ---------- The NHL needs to realign by letting us leave the Southeast. Put Dallas in there. Put us with Philly and Pittsburgh like we should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEavyJumbo85 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Manitoba??? Any reason why they won't go back to the Winnipeg Jets? Is it because the Coyotes hold their history? And HJ85, I'm not sure I'm down with your new division alignments. The original 6 is a distant memory to most modern hockey fans. The Rangers have too many rivals from the old Patrick division to be away from Philly, Washington, NYI, NYJ. Part of it, the other part is that the new ownership group wants to push the franchise as a regional team. Marketing the team through Winnipeg proper was the cause of its failure last time around. It's far and away the smallest market in the league, and they're going to need the support of Eastern Saskatchewan, Northern Minnesota, Northern North Dakota, Northwest Ontario, and all of Manitoba to survive. I'm flexible if they went back to 2 divisions per conference, but as far as the original 6 goes, it's not a distant memory to the fans of those franchises or the players on those teams. Nick Lidstrom, for instance, has spoken at length about wanting the chance to play their original 6 rivals more often and actually said he hoped they could find a way to get them into the same division or at least the same conference. In my alignment, the Rangers would still be in the same conference as the Patrick division teams at least. I don't think it would ever happen, but I think it's better than straight up Columbus to the Southeast, which is very likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 I just don't get how a team in Winnipeg survives. A pro sports team survives on two things: 1) the size of its metro area and 2) the size of its corporate base. Winnipeg doesn't hold up in either category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 I just don't get how a team in Winnipeg survives. A pro sports team survives on two things: 1) the size of its metro area and 2) the size of its corporate base. Winnipeg doesn't hold up in either category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEavyJumbo85 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 I just don't get how a team in Winnipeg survives. A pro sports team survives on two things: 1) the size of its metro area and 2) the size of its corporate base. Winnipeg doesn't hold up in either category. I honestly don't know how a 2nd team in the Greater Toronto Area wouldn't have been a more preferred destination, but here we are. Hopefully revenue sharing, a 17 billion dollar owner, and Canadian fans selling out the arena every night will keep them afloat. I mean, the Islanders have been surviving on 11,000 avg attendance in a horrible building with 2 other teams in the same area. We'll see what happens with Phoenix because there's a pretty good chance that this is their last year in Glendale. Kansas City has an arena ready and Quebec City just keeps pushing and pushing, but I have to think Ontario is going to give you stability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted May 31, 2011 Author Share Posted May 31, 2011 It'll be interesting alright. Winnipeg has about 700,000 in the entire area and 15,000 of those need to go to sellout MTS Centre. But they have been desperate for a team and I think in the short term at least, they'll do ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 LOriginal 6 division:Montreal Boston Toronto Detroit Chicago Rangers Ottawa Buffalo Old Patrick division teams: Islanders Devils Capitals Penguins Flyers Hurricanes Panthers Old Norris division teams: Tampa Columbus Nashville St. Louis Dallas Minnesota Manitoba Pacific teams: Calgary Vancouver Colorado San Jose Phoenix LA Anaheim Edmonton Here's what I came up with. It's similar to yours, but I moved a couple of teams around and renamed the divisions: Northeast- Ottawa, Montreal, Toronto, Boston, Detroit, Columbus, Buffalo, Chicago (8) Mid-Atlantic- Washington, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, NY Isles, NY Rangers, New Jersey, Carolina (7) South-Central- Tampa Bay, Florida, Nashville, Manitoba, Minnesota, St. Louis, Dallas (7) Pacific- San Jose, Los Angeles, Anaheim, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Phonix, Colorado (8) The problem with the whole league going geographically is TB and Florida and what to do with them. They throw a wrench into the fray. ---------- Post added May-31st-2011 at 02:18 PM ---------- I honestly don't know how a 2nd team in the Greater Toronto Area wouldn't have been a more preferred destination, but here we are. Hopefully revenue sharing, a 17 billion dollar owner, and Canadian fans selling out the arena every night will keep them afloat. I mean, the Islanders have been surviving on 11,000 avg attendance in a horrible building with 2 other teams in the same area. We'll see what happens with Phoenix because there's a pretty good chance that this is their last year in Glendale. Kansas City has an arena ready and Quebec City just keeps pushing and pushing, but I have to think Ontario is going to give you stability. What about Hamilton? I've heard that city name thrown around. I can't see the Coyotes surviving in Phoenix beyond this season and I don't see how the Panthers continue to survive in S. Florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted May 31, 2011 Author Share Posted May 31, 2011 It'll be interesting alright. Winnipeg has about 700,000 in the entire area and 15,000 of those need to go to sellout MTS Centre. But they have been desperate for a team and I think in the short term at least, they'll do ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyholetsgogrant Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 It'll be interesting alright. Winnipeg has about 700,000 in the entire area and 15,000 of those need to go to sellout MTS Centre. But they have been desperate for a team and I think in the short term at least, they'll do ok. Thats the million dollar question, can they sell out every game consistently over the long haul? (this is why the jets moved in the first place) Could Winnipeg end up like Atlanta, having two NHL franchises fail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEavyJumbo85 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Thats the million dollar question, can they sell out every game consistently over the long haul? (this is why the jets moved in the first place) Could Winnipeg end up like Atlanta, having two NHL franchises fail? Winnipeg's biggest issues were caused by the Canadian dollar being exceptionally weak. They were already a small market to begin with, throw in the league without a salary cap and they couldn't spend to compete. They had to pay salaries in US dollar, but all of their revenue was Canadian. Pretty much the perfect storm for massive financial losses. They couldn't pay talent so they were never good, so people stopped coming. The cap and the relative strength of the Canadian dollar should make a huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyholetsgogrant Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Winnipeg's biggest issues were caused by the Canadian dollar being exceptionally weak. They were already a small market to begin with, throw in the league without a salary cap and they couldn't spend to compete. They had to pay salaries in US dollar, but all of their revenue was Canadian. Pretty much the perfect storm for massive financial losses. They couldn't pay talent so they were never good, so people stopped coming. The cap and the relative strength of the Canadian dollar should make a huge difference. That still doesn't account for Winnipeg Jets having the lowest attendance in the league when the team left in 96. This is what Gary Bettman was getting at in the presser today, Winnipeg has to sell out every game, especially since the building is so small. I don't know if yous saw it, but it was a very painful to watch, especially when Bettman was talking. From the article I read on TSN, the tickets seem reasonably priced, between $39-$129 per game for season tickets (try going to a caps game on prices like that, especially the lower bowl). However, are there enough people in Winnipeg willing to buy 13k season tickets? That sounds like a lot for such a small city... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 From the article I read on TSN, the tickets seem reasonably priced, between $39-$129 per game for season tickets (try going to a caps game on prices like that, especially the lower bowl). However, are there enough people in Winnipeg willing to buy 13k season tickets? That sounds like a lot for such a small city... Most, if not all, of the Caps season tickets are cheaper than that range. My tickets next year are like $34 a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 Technically Winnipeg CITY is larger than D.C. but the area is a wasteland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyholetsgogrant Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Most, if not all, of the Caps season tickets are cheaper than that range. My tickets next year are like $34 a game. I'm talking lower bowl, I think caps upper level seats start just under $30 during NON tiered games, meaning games against low draw teams (thanks ted for increasing the price on everything for a choking team). I would imagine lower bowl seats are way more expensive at caps games?\ Technically Winnipeg CITY is larger than D.C. but the area is a wasteland. Correct, but like you said, everything outside of Winnipeg is a wastland... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I'm talking lower bowl, I think caps upper level seats start just under $30 during NON tiered games, meaning games against low draw teams (thanks ted for increasing the price on everything for a choking team). I would imagine lower bowl seats are way more expensive at caps games?\ I was assuming that the price range you quoted was for both lower bowel and upper level. If that's the case, then their season ticket prices are lower than the Caps. (I'm assuming that's the STH price you quoted and not single game) I don't have tiered pricing on my season tickets and I never have. A Wednesday game against the Islanders costs the same as a Sunday afternoon game against the Penguins - it's gone up quite a bit over the past few seasons though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 Ren - Northeastern plays Minnesota this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEavyJumbo85 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 That still doesn't account for Winnipeg Jets having the lowest attendance in the league when the team left in 96. This is what Gary Bettman was getting at in the presser today, Winnipeg has to sell out every game, especially since the building is so small. I don't know if yous saw it, but it was a very painful to watch, especially when Bettman was talking.From the article I read on TSN, the tickets seem reasonably priced, between $39-$129 per game for season tickets (try going to a caps game on prices like that, especially the lower bowl). However, are there enough people in Winnipeg willing to buy 13k season tickets? That sounds like a lot for such a small city... I said the fans stopped coming because the team couldn't afford to compete, which is the truth. Their average ticket price is projected to be 3rd highest in the NHL this year, although that's before Vancouver jacks up their prices, but still pretty high. They'll have no problem selling out for the first 3-5 seasons, but after that the team is going to have to win. They're hands down the smallest market in the league, by something like 400K in terms of population in the city of Winnipeg, but Canada is a different animal. If this team wins, they could have 50,000 people in the city and they'd still be sold out every night, and likely have a waiting list. Obvious hyperbole, but Canadians and hockey, if it's winning hockey, especially when it's the only ticket in town...I'd be shocked if they didn't come. The problem with that is the likelihood that the Western Conference will shred them their first few years, so they really have to come out of that honeymoon phase with a competitive roster. The goal for them needs to be to cultivate stability, and look to follow the Nashville/Buffalo models. Minimal turnover, build through the draft (because no free agent will ever want to voluntarily move to Winnipeg), and be consistent contenders for a playoff spot, because they'll definitely be a budget team even at their peak of financial success. There is zero, and I don't know how much I can stress zero, corporate backing in Winnipeg, so they'll always be treading water. No clue if it'll work this time around, but they have a much better chance with the league's current financial setup. Small market teams can compete because of the cap and revenue sharing, and the Canadian dollar is strong. Either way, they have a lot of work to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 At least we won't have to see Thrasher highlights with an empty Phillips arena and those stupid jerseys with the blue on one sleeve only, with Atlanta written down the side. If I were and Atlanta resident, I'd give up on hockey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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