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SFGate.com: "He [Jason Campbell] looks frazzled under pressure..."

Boss_Hogg

By Boss_Hogg
in Around the NFL

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darrelgreenie

darrelgreenie

Posted
Posted
Explaining the continued deficiencies that CC (Captain Checkdown) continues to bring to the table that put extra pressure on his lineman to hold their blocks longer, aside from his uncanny ability to step straight up into the face of the on-coming pass rush; is obviously too simple a form of football 1-0-1 for someone of your esteemed status to lower himself to appreciate; so we'll leave going over it again.

I would ask if the above reply is akin to someone who's arrogance matches his in-ability to read and comprehend as you responded to a post acknowledging the line was upgraded from last year, but as amusing as this all is, I think everyone would rather be spared the answer.

You're btw 'acknowledgement that the OL was upgraded shows that you consider OL less consequential in the performance of the OL then QB play.

You can have all the pocket presence in the wolrd if your OL is getting beat they're getting beat.

Thinking that JC caused the pass protection issues is absurd.

If that was the case why did the Redskins use valuable resources improving the OL?

Because getting hit on the 3rd step of a 3 step drop is an OL problem.

Not being able to run the ball is an OL problem.

Having to limit the number of 5 step drop passes thrown because of pass protection issues is an OL problem.

If JC was the problem with the passing game why didn't they use those resources to get a WR?

I mean according to you McNabb solves all the problems on the OL simply by not being Campbell right?

HTTR!

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Gibbs Hog Heaven

Gibbs Hog Heaven

Posted
Posted

:chug: I wanted the "banging your head against a brick wall" smiley dg; but as it's no longer there, this fits as your enough to drive anyone to it.

The O-line is a major problem on this team. It was last year, it still, though upgraded, is this. The front 5 hardly fill you with great confidence, and what's behind them scares the living piss out of me if any of that group has to play for sustained periods. But when you have an O-line as porous as ours, particularly last season; if your gona' have ANY kind of success, you need your QB to help them out by not holding onto the ball an age and forcing them to hold their blocks longer than should be reasonably expected. No question CC took punishment last year when the line collapsed almost from the snap of the ball and he had no realistic chance to make a play. But by the same token, there were as many and more situations when he DID have reasonable time, and still went through his reads to finally making a decision with all the football smarts of the speed of an injured snail. (But then no wide outs were open right? *Thought I'd save you the trouble.).

You accuse others of not being objective, when you refuse to be yourself on the man. Oh, you'll flippantly throw it out there that McNabb's an up-grade; but when very valid counter points are put about the same, continued rookie mistakes CC brings to the table in year five that he did in year one; you go into this single minded, everything BUT CC mode.

I don't know whether your a naturaly arrogant person, or whether you truly believe you've seen what no-one else has and Jason has just never had a chance to succeed.

The Redskins put priority on upgrading the line because aside from it being neglected for WAY too long in DC, and a completely new regime trying to build this thing from the ground up the right way whilst getting results in the here and now; we had little picks or players of trade worth to do much else thanks to years of bad transactions. Priorities had to be made, and the trenches we're as good a base as any. Allied to the most important man on the team, the QB, which Coach Mike identified and rectified early as a MAJOR priority.

No, McNabb doesn't solve "all the O-line problems by not being Campbell." But he sure as Hell masks a lot of them by not being CC; through his speed of thought in both knowing where he's gona' go with the football early, and savvy smarts in playing it safe and putting it out of bounds if nothings on; through his footwork and presence within a collapsing pocket to buy time and keep plays alive.

But that's were we end up going round in circles. Your repeated refusal to admit the deficiencies in Campbell's game that effects the whole picture from the moment he breaks the huddle.

Again, I don't know if it's arrogance, or that you honestly believe he's not as bad as everything to the contrary most everyone else sees.

Hail.

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wdcredskins

wdcredskins

Posted
Posted
I wonder what he's going to say when JC is backing up Gradkowski by mid season LOL. Poor ol' JC.

well one, raiders fans will see waht we saw when Collins came in. only thing that changed is QB and the offense looks instantly better. common sense will lead u to think that it is the QB that is incompetent.

this guy candle sucks so bad. he will be benched soon and will never have a starting job again. gradkowski will come in and will look much better,.

i mean, i know many raiders fans puzzled by candle's signing because they thought that they had a starting qb in gradkowski.

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Boss_Hogg

Boss_Hogg

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The Bay Area media and fans are already screaming for Gradkowski.

here is a nice little gem for the Camp of Cambell fans.

http://www.raiderfans.net/forum/oakland-raiders-forum-message-board/168940-raider_dave-right-video-proof-campbell-giving-away-snap-count.html

Notice how JC gives away the snap count:

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao-Bhm35ARQ&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao-Bhm35ARQ&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

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RocketCitySkins

RocketCitySkins

Posted
Posted

here is a nice little gem for the Camp of Cambell fans.

Notice how JC gives away the snap count:[/Quote]

And OC Hue Jackson says that's not true.

"He's heard the reports that Campbell was tipping pass plays by leaning back before the snap, and he's not buying it.

"I don't think it's anything that he's doing or that we're doing," Jackson said. "We're watching it every day. We do quarterback-center exchange every day. The most disappointing part was we couldn't get the snap from center sometimes, or the shotgun snaps, and that's something that we worked very hard on this week.

"Obviously, you've got to get the ball from center first before you do anything."

Watch the db on the left end. He drops his arm when the center starts the snap. That's was when the lineman took off. Possibly because the clock was already down to 4 seconds. Could have been something in JC's cadence, but it wasn't because he leaned back. Not on this play.

Besides who starts a rookie at center his first NFL game when he played left tackle for 4 years at a Div 2 school? And then thinks there is not going to be problems with the snap. It's insanity.

And why don't you bring all the post over here from the raider fans who disagree with the OP.

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HailToTheRedskins14

HailToTheRedskins14

Posted
Posted
Wow. I cant understand how some Skins fans still don't believe that JC is the master of the check down.

Before I even checked the stats from the raiders game I said to myself that the leading reciever would be the RB and TE, so Low and Behold McFadden and the TE were the leading recievers (surprise surprise).

McNabb even when faced by pressure went downfield to the wideouts and on more than one occasion made something out of nothing. JC just doesn't have the poise under pressure to cut it. With McNabb I never thought the team didn't stand a chance to win.

I like JC and hope he does well.

But I remember reading some Raiders fans saying "JC is gonna do great here because he really utilizes the TE! Look at how great he was with Cooley."

Oh if they only knew.

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darrelgreenie

darrelgreenie

Posted
Posted
The O-line is a major problem on this team. It was last year, it still, though upgraded, is this. The front 5 hardly fill you with great confidence,

You really view our current OL as a major problem?

if your gona' have ANY kind of success, you need your QB to help them out by not holding onto the ball an age and forcing them to hold their blocks longer than should be reasonably expected.

The problem with this statement is that you assume/opine that Campbell holds the ball too long without anything to support it.

Considering the Redskins national media exposure don't you think that if Campbell held the ball longer then normal he would be lumped into the holds the ball to long category that includes Aaron Rodgers, Ben Rothlisberger and Matt Cassell?

Because i've never heard that critque about Jason's game from anywhere except extremeskins.

But, if you're honest you know that its national recognized by sports analysts and football fans that Rodgers, Ben and Matt Casell are known for holding the ball too long.

No question CC took punishment last year when the line collapsed almost from the snap of the ball and he had no realistic chance to make a play. But by the same token, there were as many and more situations when he DID have reasonable time, and still went through his reads to finally making a decision with all the football smarts of the speed of an injured snail.

We're talking about an OL that could neither pass protect nor run block.

The team basically quit calling 5 and 7 step drops after week 5 and Campbell spent most of the season getting hit on the 3rd step of a 3 step drop.

Campbell was even got sacked by a 3 man rush,3.

Sure there were times like any QB that he had enough time and didn't make the right decision.

But, it certainly wasn't more then the norm or it would be reflected in the stats.

You accuse others of not being objective, when you refuse to be yourself on the man.

LoL about lack of objectivity.

Please by all means support your accustion with quotes of my lack of objectivity.

Let me show you an example that shows the general lack of objectivity in this thread.

Jason Campbell is a starting QB and was the 15th rated QB last year.

^^The above statement is an objective fact.

By definition to claim otherwise e.g. that Campbell sucks, shows a lack of objectivity.

Oh, you'll flippantly throw it out there that McNabb's an up-grade; but when very valid counter points are put about the same, continued rookie mistakes CC brings to the table in year five that he did in year one; you go into this single minded, everything BUT CC mode.

McNabb is a clear upgrade i've always maintained that.

But, you probably have no idea about my assesment of either player.

You only know that i don't agree with these psuedo-logical critiques of Campbell's play.

Also, i've responed to specific statements.

Like the posts that claim that Campbell would have been sacked a bunch of times or 5 times against the Cowboys sunday night.

I pointed out that logically that statement is false because Campbell did play the same opponent just last year and in that game Campbell played behind a worse OL with worse pass protection then McNabb had sunday night and was only sacked 1 time.

Kinda flies in the face that Campbell would be sacked more huh?

I don't know whether your a naturaly arrogant person, or whether you truly believe you've seen what no-one else has and Jason has just never had a chance to succeed.

LoL, when i doubt go personal.;)

Again you betray your lack of objectivity.

Its only in this thread that you and your cohorts hold the majority opinion.

Out in the real world the rest of the NFL is like me and doesn't think that Campbell sucks.

No, McNabb doesn't solve "all the O-line problems by not being Campbell." But he sure as Hell masks a lot of them by not being CC; through his speed of thought in both knowing where he's gona' go with the football early, and savvy smarts in playing it safe and putting it out of bounds if nothings on; through his footwork and presence within a collapsing pocket to buy time and keep plays alive.

I agree that McNabb has all the traits you mentioned and that's why he's a better QB then not only Campbell but the majority of the NFL.

But, McNabb doesn't make an OL good, he won't make an OL that can't hold up at the point of attack magically be able to run block.

If an OL can't pass protect for a 5 or 7 step drop it doesn't matter who the QB is they OL still won't be able to pass protect for a 5 or 7 step drop.

(Just so you know we ran mostly 5 step drops on sunday night that in and of itself shows how much the OL has improved)

But that's were we end up going round in circles. Your repeated refusal to admit the deficiencies in Campbell's game that effects the whole picture from the moment he breaks the huddle.

The only refusal is the refusal to let some of the nonsense passed off as football assessments running rampant in this thread go unchalleged.

Again, I don't know if it's arrogance, or that you honestly believe he's not as bad as everything to the contrary most everyone else sees.

Everything to the contrary like what?

Being the 15th rated QB.

Having a decent Comp% and YPA.

Being 1 of the top 10 QB when pressured?

Although most everyone in this thread may agree with you it neither makes you right nor does it make you the majority outside of this thread.

Its only within the confines of this thread that people share your biased opinion of Jason Campbell.

Hail.

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HailToTheRedskins14

HailToTheRedskins14

Posted
Posted

Sometimes you have to quit looking at stats and watch the games. If JC was as good as some claim, we would've gotten more than a 4th in 2012.

I think people defend him so much is because of the hatred some people seem to have for him. I try to block all that out. But watching the games, he never inspired much confidence. He'd be good with a great surrounding cast, but so was Matt Cassel. I just wonder what these people that think he's so good will say when he finishes his career doing very little. Don't care if I'm wrong and wish him the best, but I can't see him suddenly improving.

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grego

grego

Posted
Posted
Then after the game is out of reach, JC pads his stats, just like he did for us, so after the game you go, "well, he had an 80 passer rating. It's not his fault the offense sucks and we lost."

i believe campbell passed for fewer TD's and yards in the 4th quarter than any other quarter. he was actually a bad late game QB, not the other way around. and the skins were arguably in all but 4 of their games last year in the 4th quarter.

McNabb alone should yield us 4 more wins than last year.

i agree with this.

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grego

grego

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Posted
Everything to the contrary like what?

Being the 15th rated QB.

Having a decent Comp% and YPA.

Being 1 of the top 10 QB when pressured?

you forgot that he had an exceptional rating in the red zone. i think thats in part cuz they were all quick hitting plays with no time to have to make a decision (i think he far less effective when his first or second read isnt available) and the D didnt have time to get to him. he had a good arm to gun a ball into a tight spot on a 3 step drop.

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Mahons21

Mahons21

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Posted

The problem with this statement is that you assume/opine that Campbell holds the ball too long without anything to support it.

Considering the Redskins national media exposure don't you think that if Campbell held the ball longer then normal he would be lumped into the holds the ball to long category that includes Aaron Rodgers, Ben Rothlisberger and Matt Cassell?

Because i've never heard that critque about Jason's game from anywhere except extremeskins.

But, if you're honest you know that its national recognized by sports analysts and football fans that Rodgers, Ben and Matt Casell are known for holding the ball too long.

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/09/23/which-quarterbacks-hold-the-ball-too-long/

It's a blog about QB's holding on to the ball. First week of last season the author did a study to see who held on to the ball the longest, by measuring their average sack time. It was only 1 week, but Jason Campbell led the league with an average of 3.66 seconds before he was sacked.

Again this is a small sample size, but your belief that this notion that Jason Campbell holds on to the ball too was created by ES might be a slight exaggeration.

I would guess that if Campbell were discussed as much as Rodgers/Ben/Cassell (who is only discussed because of his performance in NE) that more analysts might lump him into the hold the ball too long group.

A theory of mine that I am too lazy to give anything more than the eye test, is that Jason Campbell has a slow drop-back. Thus, we see him getting hit at the end of his drop-back and assume that he wasn't given the standard 2.5-3 seconds before getting sacked. When in actuality, a QB like Brees who has the best drop-back in the league in my opinion, creates more time for himself through his speedy drop-back.

Not saying this was the case, or was the case 100% of the time, I do believe it was a contributing factor.

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darrelgreenie

darrelgreenie

Posted
Posted
http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/09/23/which-quarterbacks-hold-the-ball-too-long/

It's a blog about QB's holding on to the ball. First week of last season the author did a study to see who held on to the ball the longest, by measuring their average sack time. It was only 1 week, but Jason Campbell led the league with an average of 3.66 seconds before he was sacked.

C'mon Mahons, first of all you're quoting a blog.

Second the sample size is so small its virtually meaningless when weighed in the context of a season.

Second the methods of his study are unknown.

There are so many reason why that blog post is very weak support for your opinion that Campbell holds the ball too long.

According to that blog Tom Brady holds the ball too long also.

A theory of mine that I am too lazy to give anything more than the eye test, is that Jason Campbell has a slow drop-back. Thus, we see him getting hit at the end of his drop-back and assume that he wasn't given the standard 2.5-3 seconds before getting sacked. When in actuality, a QB like Brees who has the best drop-back in the league in my opinion, creates more time for himself through his speedy drop-back.

The difference in drop back time is tenths of seconds its not enough to warrant getting hit on the 3rd step of a 3 step drop.

You probably think i'm shooting from the hip here, but i actually look at all this stuff.

It just so happens that SirClinton Portis and myself discussed his drop back awhile ago:

SirClintonPortis from [/b]August-7th-2009 02:32 PM]I was wondering what are your thoughts on his dropback and how it compares to a successful WCO QB like McNabb or Hasselbeck and how it compared to his own dropback in 2007?

I really hadn't thought of how JC's drop compared until you mentioned it but it a good question.

Thanks for asking, i love football questions.

I'm home from work today, so i had time.

I watched some highlight clips on NFL.com of Campbell, Hasselbeck and McNabb.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...ell-highlights

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...ell-highlights

I thought of the 3 that:

-Hasselbeck but especially McNabb are more consistently explosive from center

-Hasselbeck and McNabb are more quick footed away from center to the top of their drop

-Hasselbeck looks very lithe or nimble in his drop and in the pocket

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...ts-vs-Chargers

-McNabb looks really strong in his drop and stands strong in the pocket (it kinda looks like he back there thinking..."i'm not going anywhere" but maybe because he's throwing in a clean pocket)

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...abb-highlights

JC's drop is effective it looks good but its not as polished, he's not as fuild or as smooth yet part of that is because he's 6'5.

I picked JC's best game from '07, and JCs drop actaully looked quicker and more confident then.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...ell-highlights

So again its probably just reaching a comfort level in Zorn's offense to see his drop improve to reach Matt and McNabb's level.

They have been plying their trade a bit longer.

Their polish is likely a function of experience.

One thing i noticed though: on the plays where JC got the ball out quick his drop looks better its more explosive..more confident.

But, i'm not sure if this is cause or effect.

I mean did a good drop cause the ball to come out quick? or does knowing where he's going with the ball give more porpose or cause a good drop?

I've always thought that JC's drop back was consistently as explosive as i would like but he got a lot better under Zorn's guidance.

By the end of the year i was quite impressed with how JC played with Bingo Lewis calling the plays. He was starting to look like a rhythm 3 step drop WCO QB.

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Mahons21

Mahons21

Posted
Posted

Alright DG, I'm taking the time to evaluate it. I'm going to document all sacks from last year to see what his average is around.

Week 1 v NYG: (2 sacks) According to article Campbells average sack was at 3.6

Week 2 v STL (1 sack) Snapped Ball at 12:18 sacked at 12:12, average of 6 seconds

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009092008/2009/REG2/rams@redskins/analyze/box-score#tab:watch

Sack occurred in the 4th qtr

Week 3 v DET (2 sacks)

1: Snapped at 11:09 pressure in his face by 11:08, but he also bobbled the shotgun snap which caused him to back pedal, though he could have stepped up.

2: The other sack doesn't have a video unfortunately, but he did fumble.

Average of 1 second.

Week 4 v TB: (3 sacks)

1: Snapped at 14:28, sacked at 14:25, though he didn't stand a chance virtually every linemen was pushed backwards into him.

2: Snapped at 13:57 sacked at 13:53, fumbled the ball

3: Snapped at 4:48, sacked at 4:43

Average of 4 seconds.

I'm going to keep updating this one quarter of the season at a time.

Through the first 4 games Campbell was sacked 7 times (I excluded the DET sack that didn't have a video, and averaging the numbers Campbell was sacked at about 3.7 seconds after the snap.

A QB is not supposed to have that much time in the NFL, Campbell should have thrown a few more balls out of bounds in my opinion.

All my findings came from nfl.com I went to play-by-play analysis and found the video highlights of his sacks.

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RocketCitySkins

RocketCitySkins

Posted
Posted
http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/09/23/which-quarterbacks-hold-the-ball-too-long/

It's a blog about QB's holding on to the ball. First week of last season the author did a study to see who held on to the ball the longest, by measuring their average sack time. It was only 1 week, but Jason Campbell led the league with an average of 3.66 seconds before he was sacked.

Again this is a small sample size, but your belief that this notion that Jason Campbell holds on to the ball too was created by ES might be a slight exaggeration.

I would guess that if Campbell were discussed as much as Rodgers/Ben/Cassell (who is only discussed because of his performance in NE) that more analysts might lump him into the hold the ball too long group.

A theory of mine that I am too lazy to give anything more than the eye test, is that Jason Campbell has a slow drop-back. Thus, we see him getting hit at the end of his drop-back and assume that he wasn't given the standard 2.5-3 seconds before getting sacked. When in actuality, a QB like Brees who has the best drop-back in the league in my opinion, creates more time for himself through his speedy drop-back.

Not saying this was the case, or was the case 100% of the time, I do believe it was a contributing factor.

Wrong! It was after week 2 and included the sack almost in the endzone in the Ram's game when Samuels was pushed straight back into JC, stepped on JC's foot, pushed him backwards into the endzone and JC spent 3 seconds fighting to get out while Samuels went and stood out at the 2 yard line and watched. I still get mad about that play. The entire sack took around 6 seconds and so the 3.66 is very misleading.

11hfg4o.png

The sack by Ford wasn't caused by Jason holding the ball too long. That sack took less than 2 seconds.

I'm 10 times more concerned with the continuing check downs than with JC holding the ball too long.

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