Ellis Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 http://www.armytimes.com/news/2010/08/ap-military-stolen-valor-act-unconstitutional-again-081710/ PASADENA, Calif. — A federal appeals court panel ruled Tuesday that people have a right to lie about receiving military medals, the second federal court decision in a month to go against the Stolen Valor Act. Xavier Alvarez, who falsely claimed in 2007 to have received the Medal of Honor, challenged the law on appeal after he was charged with violating the act, which makes it a crime to falsely claim to have won a military medal. Alvarez said the act is a violation of free-speech rights. A panel of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals sided with Alvarez in a 2-1 decision. The majority said there was no evidence that such lies harm anybody, and there is no compelling reason for the government to ban such lies. The U.S. Attorney’s Office in Los Angeles said it is deciding whether to appeal the ruling. :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenspandan Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 eh not defending the dude at all, but i think it's alright to err on the side of freedom when it comes to the first amendment. it's easy to just want to see this guy punished for acting so disgracefully, but we can't just hipocritically uphold freedom of speech when it's convenient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braxford Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Legally and Consitutionally the lies are protected as they should be. If the lies were to defraud the government then someone could get in trouble. Or if there was a business agreement that was entered into on the basis of the "honors earned" this could be a fraud. Still, any one who would lie about military honors need a swift and hard kick to the nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Freedom of speech and committing an act of fraud are not the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellis Posted August 18, 2010 Author Share Posted August 18, 2010 When I run for alderman of my Ward in Annapolis next election... I will say that I was one of the first men to land on the moon and that I also won the Medal of Honor in Vietnam. Afterall... it's just free speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Maybe the problem is the law. What was the liars motive for lying? Did he, perchance, lie for the purposes of obtaining something of value? (A job, handouts, free restaurant meals, anything?) If so, then he committed fraud. A law that's been well upheld. Prosecute him for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MintHillSkinsFan Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Yeah, unfortunately it's not against the law to be an a-hole. If it was we'd have a lot worse overcrowding in the correctional system than we already do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenspandan Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Maybe the problem is the law. What was the liars motive for lying? Did he, perchance, lie for the purposes of obtaining something of value? (A job, handouts, free restaurant meals, anything?) If so, then he committed fraud. A law that's been well upheld. Prosecute him for that. fraud is already illegal. this case is testing the "stolen valor act" which makes it illegal to, in a vaccuum, lie about military service. that's probably unconstitutional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Fraud is probably also a lot harder to meet a threshold for (and thus to prove). Which is really another reason to strike down this law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter44 Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 When I run for alderman of my Ward in Annapolis next election... I will say that I was one of the first men to land on the moon and that I also won the Medal of Honor in Vietnam.Afterall... it's just free speech. Sure, and when everyone knows you're a liar then see what happens. If we make lying a crime then 99% of the population will be locked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellis Posted August 18, 2010 Author Share Posted August 18, 2010 Sure, and when everyone knows you're a liar then see what happens. If we make lying a crime then 99% of the population will be locked up. Free speech, homey!!! FTW!!!:evilg: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 When I run for alderman of my Ward in Annapolis next election... I will say that I was one of the first men to land on the moon and that I also won the Medal of Honor in Vietnam.Afterall... it's just free speech. Go ahead. I'm GLAD it was struck down. A law prohibiting free speech dishonors our soldiers more than the lying does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Freedom of speech and committing an act of fraud are not the same thing. Who was defrauded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Who was defrauded? The article doesn't make that clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbear Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 This all makes me think of the web peace on lieing done by the Post last week. We all lie. We learn as a baby. We learn that certain cries get us attention, and as attention seekers, we cry. We learn certain cries get us held close so we give that cry whether we are hungry or not. The ability to restrain from lies is one often hard learned. Lord knows my kids still lie...to the point where my wife and I are happy when we can get them to recognize truth and untruth. We've been working on this with our kids by telling them stories and saying things they know to be untrue like "See the red cat on the purple roof" instead of the black cat on the green roof. Then when they correct us, we ask if what we said was untrue/a lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 The article doesn't make that clear. The act makes lying about your service "fraud" in and of itself. Essentially, it makes lying a crime. That's far too broad. Obvioulsy, if you lie about service to achieve some tangible benefit, that is fraud. That law already exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Not surprising this ruling was in California any bets that Alvarez's life is LIbEral dependent? This means Danny should go back to parading around the SuperBowl trophies and talk proudly like he had something to do with them and all Steroid users with hall of fame numbers, should be mandated into the Hall of Fame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeachSkin Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 There would seem to be compelling reasons to prevent people from falsely representing military service because it allows people to perpetuate a fraud and if slander isn't protected, I'm not sure how this is. You can't impersonate police, I'm not sure why the court would say you can impersonate military personnel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 This means Danny should go back to parading around the SuperBowl trophies and talk proudly like he had something to do with them and all Steroid users with hall of fame numbers, should be mandated into the Hall of Fame. Yes. Yes, that's exactly what this means. Spot on. There would seem to be compelling reasons to prevent people from falsely representing military service because it allows people to perpetuate a fraud and if slander isn't protected, I'm not sure how this is. You can't impersonate police, I'm not sure why the court would say you can impersonate military personnel? You can't impersonate an active police officer in order to take some sort of police action. If you want to tell some girl at a bar that you were once shot in the line of duty even though you've never even held a gun in your life, I'm pretty sure you won't get arrested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 So NavyDave, who fought for our country, opposes the 1st Amendment. Who knew? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryman of the North Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 the first amendment is ridiculous sometimes. You shouldnt be free to lie, just as you shouldnt be free to hide behind an amendment designed to protect the average person after lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter44 Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 the first amendment is ridiculous sometimes.You shouldnt be free to lie, just as you shouldnt be free to hide behind an amendment designed to protect the average person after lying. So lying should be a crime? Punishable by fines and jail time?? Then adulterers who lie to there spouses should go to jail. When your wife asks you if she looks fat in those jeans, you'll tell her the truth?? etc.... Ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardowling Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 Go ahead. I'm GLAD it was struck down. A law prohibiting free speech dishonors our soldiers more than the lying does. I can assure you the Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines, and Coasties that these lying *******s dishonor would love to have a "Private" conversation with them. If you don't think we are the ones pushing this issue you haven't been paying attention. See here: http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=49635 http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php?t=96809 And here: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=60594 So I think you would find most of us that have served or are serving, disagree with you.:mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryman of the North Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 So lying should be a crime? Punishable by fines and jail time?? Then adulterers who lie to there spouses should go to jail. When your wife asks you if she looks fat in those jeans, you'll tell her the truth?? etc....Ridiculous. people who lie are generally not good people, people who lie about things like military service even less so. I dont think that people should lie at all when its avoidable, but comparing a white lie like " no those pants dont make you look fat" to " I was in nam and got the MOH" is even remotely the same. the sad thing is that in todays society Lying is encouraged not discouraged and that a mans word no longer means anything at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 the sad thing is that in todays society Lying is encouraged not discouraged and that a mans word no longer means anything at all. Also in today's society you can apparently make :bsflag: claims like that above without any backup. And lying should NOT be illegal; otherwise, nearly all of Congress would be in jail (hmm...:evilg:). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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