PFT: Haynesworth and Shanahan exchange words after Failed test (MET)

[tshile]

Well, it seems my being honest and your being honest are two entirely different things...

you don't think the leader of an organization singling out an individual out out of spite, and keeping him out of practice is a childish and petty move?

you don't expect more from your coach?

there are so many ways to go about this without stooping to haynesworth's level.

he's taking jabs at him out of revenge. not some desire to make haynesworth a better player, or better teammate.

you condone that from your head coach and team president? you think that's better than being a push over?

thats not leadership...

[tshile]

there's also a ridiculously stupid sense of irony in being mad at a player for not showing up to voluntary workouts, then going out of your way to keep him out of the mandatory workouts.

(i'm aware he missed the first madatory event, but lets not pretend thats all this is about)

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

there are so many ways to go about this without stooping to haynesworth's level.

he's taking jabs at him out of revenge. not some desire to make haynesworth a better player, or better teammate.

you condone that from your head coach and team president? you think that's better than being a push over?

thats not leadership...

Well said.

[herrmag]

there's also a ridiculously stupid sense of irony in being mad at a player for not showing up to voluntary workouts, then going out of your way to keep him out of the mandatory workouts.

(i'm aware he missed the first madatory event, but lets not pretend thats all this is about)

It absolutely IS exactly what this is about. But more. This is about a player that spent the entire offseason thinking he didn't need to be part of the team. He didn't need to do the same as the other players. So he got a test that the other players didn't get.

I'm absolutely baffled at fans of this team. ****ing and moaning for years that we lacked a coach that held every player accountable for their actions. We finally have one again, and people are sticking up for the player. No wonder there are people that exist in this world like Haynesworth. As long as there is someone to make excuses for you, you're not alone.

EDIT: Comments not necessarily directed at the person I quoted.

[tshile]

It absolutely IS exactly what this is about. But more. This is about a player that spent the entire offseason thinking he didn't need to be part of the team. He didn't need to do the same as the other players. So he got a test that the other players didn't get.

I'm absolutely baffled at fans of this team. ****ing and moaning for years that we lacked a coach that held every player accountable for their actions. We finally have one again, and people are sticking up for the player. No wonder there are people that exist in this world like Haynesworth. As long as there is someone to make excuses for you, you're not alone.

Now wait a minute.

Let's talk about the story straight. Don't conveniently leave off the details that don't pay towards your 'haynersworth is a selfish fat turd' angle, and exagerate the ones that do.

Haynesworth hired a trainer because the training staff sucked last season. Prior to shanahan even being hired as the coach.

He didn't show up for voluntary workouts. Say what you want, but there's a reason they sign contracts, and there's a reason the word in the contract is 'voluntary' not 'mandatory'. If you want them to be there - make it mandatory. Don't make it voluntary then punish those who don't show up. It's a contract - you expect him to live up to his end, then you live up to yours. Which, by the way, him not living up to his end is not an excuse for you not living up to yours.

(side edit: the fans, you and i, can be pissed they're not giving more effort. i understand that. but the coach has no right to punish him like that. that's my point about about the voluntary vs madatory thing)

He said he didn't want to play in a 3-4. Now as stupid and childish as I think that is, given how much he's being paid, I can at least understand why - Nose tackles don't get any glory in the 3-4. Is it right that he cares about that, or right that he would act like a baby because of it? No, but I can at least understand why he would be against it.

Then he didn't show up for the physical. That was messed up, and I firmly believe they should have just cut his ass right then.

Now lets fast forward to today. Shanahan runs him through tests designed to make him fail. Designed to humiliate him. Designed to further the controversy and drama that he's been so 'angry' about being the #1 topic of conversation.

We're talking about the head coach of the team. I expect leadership. I expect smart football decisions. Doing that to haynesworth isn't a smart football decision. It isn't an indication fo strong leadership. It's an indication that Shanahan was pissed and used his position, and Albert's desire to get on the field, to embarass him.

He's furthering the problem. He's causing the controversy to continue. He's now contributing to this mess - not dealing with it and fixing it like I (personally) would expect him to do.

Every time Shanahan gets angry that people are asking about haynseworth from now i'm going to laugh. He's now brought this on himself.

When they annoucned he'd be starting with the 2nd stringers assuming he passed a (what at the time I think is safe to say we all believed would be a legit) condition test, I thought that was great. It's exactly where he deserves to be. He'll either show he's not any better than 2nd stringers, or he'll show everyone he took the offseason seriously and putting him with the 2nd stringers is a waste of everyone's time.

But no, they go and do this. What a wasted opportunity. Way to be a leader.

[herrmag]

Nevermind. My quote is directed EXACTLY at the type of fan I previously quoted.

[RansomthePasserby]

I'm happy for guys like Fletcher, who go out there and give 110% every practice and every play. I think, in a way, this shows they're apreciated by the coaching staff.

Also, I think Shanahan is handling this really well. He's showing Al who's boss, but at the same time he's also showing respect to him as a person toward outsiders. You get the feeling the Redskins are turning into a real TEAM this year.

[BraveWarrior]

Is it fair that Haynesworth is the only one that need to do conditioning tests??? The guy lost 40 pounds this summer so i'm going to boldly say he did more work this summer than anyone else on the team. Am I wrong?

But everyone else showed up for off season work, so Shanahan knows where they are, conditioning-wise. Since Albert wasn't there, Shanny has no idea what kind of conditioning Albert has. And let's face it, the amount of missed plays late in games last year came down to not having good conditioning and having nagging little injuries that occur when you have to push your body too hard due to poor conditioning. Of anyone on this roster, I think Albert's conditioning needs to be a priority so he can live up to his potential and be out there making plays late in close games, rather than sucking wind on the bench.

[tshile]

Nevermind. My quote is directed EXACTLY at the type of fan I previously quoted.

You're inability to seperate not being happy with one person's actions with actually defending the other party says volumes about you.

[skinnyfan57]

I've never seen a player go out on a freaking cart, only to come back from the locker room 10 minutes later no worse for wear.

That was a bathroom break... It was a number 2.

[herrmag]

You're inability to seperate not being happy with one person's actions with actually defending the other party says volumes about you.

Lord, I hope so....

Psst..And it's "your".

[tshile]

Lord, I hope so....

Psst..And it's "your".

i'm aware. sorry for a typo at 1:20 AM on an internet forum. in case you missed it, i'm not using capitalized letters to start my sentences either, and sometimes i miss the periods or comas. wasn't aware you were going to resort to pointing out typos.

guess you've got nothing left but logical fallacies.

[Going Commando]

I'm hoping this isn't turning into a contest of who's dick is bigger. If so, I'd have to question Shanahan on that one. I'd rather the Redskins keep the high ground.

Yeah, that would be poor leadership on Shanahan's part. Whatever, I get the sense this is just to humble Albert a little a bit and make him submit to his will like the rest of the team already has. All Albert has to do is buy in and keep his gripes to himself for a while and Shanahan will leave him alone eventually. If not, then I wouldn't put it past Shanahan to get petty and run him out of town like he did with Jake Plummer.

[BraveWarrior]

Also...as far as Albert swallowing his pride and coming in in shape.....That is what he is suppose to do. That's not swallowing pride...that's having pride.

Congrats on making a great point in your very first post. What ever happened to taking pride in giving 100% to your job? As a professional, it should go without saying that you show up on time and in shape, and be ready to do your job.

[herrmag]

i'm aware. sorry for a typo at 1:20 AM on an internet forum. in case you missed it, i'm not using capitalized letters to start my sentences either, and sometimes i miss the periods or comas. wasn't aware you were going to resort to pointing out typos.

guess you've got nothing left but logical fallacies.

Well, I"m logical to a "T", but I assume nobody else in the thread wants to read our banter. Least of all me. I guess we'll figure out if Shanny is doing the right thing come mid-season. For the good of the future, let's hope what Shanny is doing is right. Regardless, I'm backing the new coach until he's proven wrong. He's obviously doing the exact opposite of his predecessors. It can't be all bad.

[Jonathan]

Florio is trying as usual to generate conflict. Coach Shanahan has every right to not accept the results of a conditioning test where the subject takes a long restroom break to catch his wind. That has to invalidate the results.

As far as other players allegedly not having to pass the test, yes, that's right - because they went through the offseason program, and (probably were still being essentially monitored informally).

Florio, you know your news site wouldn't get a tenth of the traffic if you weren't trying to create conflict and controversy. There's too many good NFL news sources to worry about PFT.

[tshile]

Don't mistake my lack of enthusiasm with his decision as not backing him.

If he runs him out of town so be it. Like I said, I'd prefered he just cut his ass before camp started. That seemed like the logical thing to do. Instead he's furthering the issue.

If the worst decision Shanahan makes is purposefully failing Haynesworth on a conditioning test then that's a-ok with me. I just think anyone jumping behind this with a '**** yeah!' mentality is not looking at the bigger picture of things or is missing the point that the better storyline is something along the lines of - Haynesworth is in shape, looking good, and everyone's on the same page moving forward. Especially considering Shanahan's clear frustration with the constant questions about Haynesworth.

edit: I agree with Jonathan that Florio is a POS 'reporter'. I hate him with a passion.

[herrmag]

Don't mistake my lack of enthusiasm with his decision as not backing him.

If he runs him out of town so be it. Like I said, I'd prefered he just cut his ass before camp started. That seemed like the logical thing to do. Instead he's furthering the issue.

If the worst decision Shanahan makes is purposefully failing Haynesworth on a conditioning test then that's a-ok with me. I just think anyone jumping behind this with a '**** yeah!' mentality is not looking at the bigger picture of things or is missing the point that the better storyline is something along the lines of - Haynesworth is in shape, looking good, and everyone's on the same page moving forward. Especially considering Shanahan's clear frustration with the constant questions about Haynesworth.

edit: I agree with Jonathan that Florio is a POS 'reporter'. I hate him with a passion.

Ok, back to point. I think what he's doing has repercussions that resonate far further than AH. In fact, I think that's his point. You **** around and disrespect the team by not showing, this is how you're dealt with. The players are taking notice. Zorn left a gap of accountability. Shanny is shoring that up decisively.

And there's no cutting AH. Impossible. He's paid.

[Going Commando]

It is amazing how you are already questioning Shanahan when the old regime could do no wrong in your eyes.

I think it's more amazing that so many people have bought in to Allen and Shanahan hook, line, and sinker despite Allen being a failure in Tampa Bay and Shanahan getting himself run out of Denver.

Shouldn't we be skeptical of every Dan Snyder hire after most of a decade of failure?

[herrmag]

I think it's more amazing that so many people have bought in to Allen and Shanahan hook, line, and sinker despite Allen being a failure in Tampa Bay and Shanahan getting himself run out of Denver.

Shouldn't we be skeptical of every Dan Snyder hire after most of a decade of failure?

Certainly. But who (aside from Gibbs, who obviously, and unfortunately changed between his two stints) has won a super bowl as a head coach that we've seen leading this team in the past 2 decades?

Every coach has to pull back. Lombardi left Green Bay. The Tuna went to Dallas. Jimmy Johnson got (for all intents and purposes) canned. Good coaches have to move on for the sake of the team for fear of staleness.

But, as far as a Danny signing, you have a good point....But what does Danny's sign on his door state? See the coach....

[Going Commando]

lol this part had me rollin. either shanahan or somebody else shoulda said "ooohhhh."

Not me. It made me cringe because of how obviously stupid and catty it was. I really hope Shanahan never said anything like that. If Haynesworth was a two time all-pro without ever being in shape, then what the hell is the point of being in shape?

[herrmag]

Not me. It made me cringe because of how obviously stupid and catty it was. I really hope Shanahan never said anything like that. If Haynesworth was a two time all-pro without ever being in shape, then what the hell is the point of being in shape?

Being a hall-of-famer.....Or more to the point, helping win a championship for the team you play for currently.

[darrelgreenie]

I'm hoping this isn't turning into a contest of who's dick is bigger. If so, I'd have to question Shanahan on that one. I'd rather the Redskins keep the high ground.

I agree with you.

I feel like the information on the whole Haynseworth situation has been sketchy.

I hate when were forced to rely on second hand information that player X said or 'feels' ...*blank* way.

Normally if a player really doesn't like something there will be some sort of direct link or quote but there's been nothing directly from Haynseworth.

The only thing i know for sure is that Haynesworth for whatever reason did not want to participate in voluntary practice.

Which by the way is his perrogative as it was collectively bargined by the union and i kinda respect him for showing up and telling the staff look i'm not going to be here.

Personally, i would have showed up b/c i wouldn't have the balls not to.

But, at the end of the day its was his choice he didn't have to be here.

Now not showing up to madatory mini's i thought was a bad move.

Now Shanahan playing games with his conditioning test strikes me as a wrong headed approach to player management.

Doing the shuttle run twice then being told to do it a 3rd time is a bit much.

Especially when no one else has to do it.

But, again its no big deal if Shanahan actually gives Haynesworth a fair chance to pass it tommorrow.

[BraveWarrior]

I think it's more amazing that so many people have bought in to Allen and Shanahan hook, line, and sinker despite Allen being a failure in Tampa Bay and Shanahan getting himself run out of Denver.

But didn't Allen do well during his time in Oakland? And look at how long Shanny was a fine coach in Denver before being run out of town. I think his was a case of wearing out the welcome. Often, a long time coach will be sent packing after a couple disappointing seasons because people will convince the owner that the team needs to go in a new direction. But given the average tenure of most NFL coaches in one city, he had a great run in Denver.

[BraveWarrior]

Not me. It made me cringe because of If Haynesworth was a two time all-pro without ever being in shape, then what the hell is the point of being in shape?

How about playing an entire season without sitting out any games? How about having the conditioning to be able to be in on a third down stop late in the game against a team that is either: trying to run out the clock; or, trying to put together a comeback drive?