SkinsHokieFan Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 This isn't a surprise at all. It is clear the culture in Ashburn was, for lack of a better word, ****ed the last 2 years. And if not for Joe Gibbs, probably ****ed the 8 years before hand. Vinny was unqualified in his role. As was Zorn. And the owner, really in all of his businesses, seems star struck yet runs over weaklings in typical bully behavior. We can only hope the owner at age 45 and 11 years of getting his ass kicked (4 last place finishes, only 2 seasons with 10 wins, no appearances in conference title games only 1 division title) has realized how much of the ****ed culture was his responsibility. Because as was stated in this thread, 2 time Superbowl winning coaches with a bright son as OC rarely are available to come in and set the tone for your organization Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santana_89 Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 That was then...this is NOW!! Assigning blame to Dan Synder, Vinny Cerrato, Jim Zorn, Greg Blache, CP,Landry or anyone else will NOT change what happend the last two years. Frankly I don't give a damn. It serves ZERO purpose rehashing old news, because THIS is the Bruce and Mike Show NOW. I would like to ask ARE what was his excuse on special teams? Did Mr. Synder somehow hold him back too? But guess what even that doesn't matter because he's no longer apart of this organization. He should concentrate on his team and their receiver and qb situation;). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 That was then...this is NOW!! Assigning blame to Dan Synder, Vinny Cerrato, Jim Zorn, Greg Blache, CP,Landry or anyone else will NOT change what happend the last two years. Frankly I don't give a damn. It serves ZERO purpose rehashing old news, because THIS is the Bruce and Mike Show NOW. I think it does mainly because Shanny won't be around forever. And Snyder's history shows he won't be around to even fulfill his entire contract. With that being said, its tough to say today what will happen. We do know what has happened the past decade, and its quite frankly been failure. The 2 constants were Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato. Vinny is gone now (for how long?) but lets see if Dan has truly changed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABSTRACT Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 Yeah I gotta give respect where its due. Randle El is a good dude and he is a GREAT receiver. If he wasn't...the Steelers wuldnt have picked him back up. El is actually one of the best slot receivers in the league. It is just irresponsible for a critic to criticize from the bottom-up...its ALWAYS from the top-down...I thnk we all know it was management....the front office and the coaches...and the person to blame for that was Dan Snyder!!! When this new regime succeeds...the person that we have to thank is Dan Snyder!!! Our coaches are the ones who let ARE return punts with guys like Moss, Hall, and Thomas on the roster... Our coach (Blache) is the one that held our defensive talent back!!! Its very simple when it comes down to it...management and coaches are the one to blame...not one individual (ARE).... I'm thankful we had those horrible years and I appreciate every moment of it.....If we havnt gone through that, the franchise wuld not be going into this upcoming season with Orakpo, T. Williams, Mike and Kyle Shanahan, a SB winning 3-4 defense (most teams to win the superbowl in the past 10 years ran a 3-4)...so everythng happens for a reason... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 *Unfortnately, a full interview with Randle El could not be conducted while he was running east to west during this discussion* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 Snyder held Zorn back because Zorn let him. Zorn is too passive to be a HC in this league, as evidenced by the debacle that was last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus87 Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 I think Snyder meddled a fair bit in Zorn's business as the HC. Sure, I buy that somewhat. But overall, give me a break. Zorn's too nice to be a HC, he's a bit of a geek, and he was clearly in over his head running the entire show. Now, maybe if he had been paired up with a really strong GM and a DC who helped take control of the team rather than quit halfway through the season, Zorn would've had a bit of an easier time. It's fair to say that his supporting cast of coaches/front office people sucked as bad as he did. But I don't think Snyder's too much to blame for the big picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD5 Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 But I don't think Snyder's too much to blame for the big picture. Who hired Zorn? Who hired Vinny? Snyder is the big picture. He is the person most responsible for the total dysfunction here over the last decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 I think Snyder meddled a fair bit in Zorn's business as the HC. Sure, I buy that somewhat.But overall, give me a break. Zorn's too nice to be a HC, he's a bit of a geek, and he was clearly in over his head running the entire show. Now, maybe if he had been paired up with a really strong GM and a DC who helped take control of the team rather than quit halfway through the season, Zorn would've had a bit of an easier time. It's fair to say that his supporting cast of coaches/front office people sucked as bad as he did. But I don't think Snyder's too much to blame for the big picture. Agree Zorn was awful. Which makes that whole entire debacle of a "process" after Gibbs retired and his hiring look even more foolish. And that was all Dan Snyder's doing, trying to copy Jerry Jones and how he hired an OC before HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrellsMyHero28 Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 Its funny, because I'm on Oldskool's ignore list for essentially telling him that Snyder was too hands on and Vinny leaving wasn't going to mean that we would be entirely rid of this problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santana_89 Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 it all started when Zorn called CP out in that Detroit Game and CP pouted his way to Snyda and then again in the Bmore game....it's all about not letting Zorn call ALL the shots and players allowed to undermine Zman to Snyda... I disagree it all started when Gregg Williams was passed over for the head coaching job. NO ONE else you could have brought in would have had the loyalty and respect of the TEAM like he did. Remember they had just lost Sean Taylor and Gibbs retired unexpectedly.If ever there was a time that the organization needed CONTINUITY it was in January 2008. Instead of hiring Fossel like VC/DS wanted to as hc,they chickened out for whatever reason(s) and was stuck with Jim Zorn. Zorn was a qb coach and that's exactly what he's position should have coached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins4ever Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 The fact that Jim Zorn started off 6-2 as a rookie head coach shows that he had the potential to be a good head coach. There's a lot of things done and said in the locker room, at practice etc. and the players see things that we fans can't see. I'm not suprised by Antwaan Randle El's charge against Snyder. There's probably validity to it. We're talking about an owner who fired Norv Turner while the Redskins were still in playoff contention, hired a college coach who didn't know squat about the NFL, and fired Marty after he guided the team to 8-8 after a 0-5 start. Zorn would have maybe succeeded had Vinny took care of the offensive line through the draft for the previous seven seasons and had Dan hired a legitimate GM long before he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus87 Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 Who hired Zorn?Who hired Vinny? Snyder is the big picture. He is the person most responsible for the total dysfunction here over the last decade. Yeah, he's the big picture for the entire team. You are right about that. But this thread is about Snyder supposedly holding Zorn back. That's the big picture I was referring to. The big picture of Zorn's time spent as the Redskins HC, or the thread topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 Yeah, he's the big picture for the entire team. You are right about that.But this thread is about Snyder supposedly holding Zorn back. That's the big picture I was referring to. The big picture of Zorn's time spent as the Redskins HC, or the thread topic. But you see, Snyder held Zorn back by hiring him lol ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedlamVR Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 I disagree it all started when Gregg Williams was passed over for the head coaching job. NO ONE else you could have brought in would have had the loyalty and respect of the TEAM like he did. Remember they had just lost Sean Taylor and Gibbs retired unexpectedly.If ever there was a time that the organization needed CONTINUITY it was in January 2008. Instead of hiring Fossel like VC/DS wanted to as hc,they chickened out for whatever reason(s) and was stuck with Jim Zorn. Zorn was a qb coach and that's exactly what he's position should have coached. Williams would have been a terrible coach . There is something just wrong about him . Some players respected him but doesn't anyone remember 2006 when Williams and Saunders were left to run things effectively to see if Williams or Al could be Joe Gibbs successor ? Snyder had little confidence in Zorn from the get go . I think he was fine taking Zorn as an offensive co-ordinator but he showed little respect by ensuring almost all the other coaches were in place . You have to remember Zorn was Cerrattos hire and it was down to Vinny to give Dan a high level of confidence in his choice but because Vinny was little more than a glorified yes man he let Snyder get to close to the team . Synder is the kind of owner who wants to be on hand . Some coaches can deal with that (Gibbs) but others see it as interfering (Shottenhiemer) . What the Redskins need is a buffer and I think we actually have that in Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 ARE please go away and shut your mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirtyfive2seven Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 the best news is that this wont happen again with Bruce and Mike running the show .. if it happened in the first place. Honestly it doesnt surprise me but why would Dan give the job to someone he didnt trust to run the show? Kind of makes you wonder if he was desperate 2 yrs ago when Gibbs quit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangSteve Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 There's probably a bit of truth to this. That still doesn't make Zorn a good coach though. Thank you! In case anyone didn't notice, Zorn was in well over his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 I think it's a bit of both. By attacking Snyder and defending Zorn, Randle El is also defending himself. "Hey, I couldn't perform because the coach was being limited and so was I! I would have had 140 catches and 20 tds otherwise." Did Snyder put pressure on Zorn and show an insulting lack of confidence. Yup. Did Zorn and the team merit that lack of confidence? Sadly, they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 Who would? If Danny calls me tomorrow and offers me millions to do a job I'm not qualified to have. I'm taking it. You wouldn't? Yanno, if TheDan wanted to overpay me for a job, I probably would take the money but I'd also show up and try. I'd probably fall right on my face but dammit I would feel obligated to try and earn it, no matter how ill-qualified I was. We have a recent sad history of signing players who take the $$$ and then loaf because they could. ARE is one of them, and for him to be runnin' his yap now is hypocrisy of the rankest kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 Not to defend Snyder, but there was a reason he was worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 Randle-El sucked a returning punts, Zorn sucked a coaching, and Danny sucked at running football operations. They all sucked. One hired the other two though. True but I personally find it a bit disheartening to see ARE speaking about this and giving a backhand to Snyder when all of this is ancient history. Let it go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimster Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 Williams would have been a terrible coach . There is something just wrong about him . Some players respected him but doesn't anyone remember 2006 when Williams and Saunders were left to run things effectively to see if Williams or Al could be Joe Gibbs successor ? Snyder had little confidence in Zorn from the get go . I think he was fine taking Zorn as an offensive co-ordinator but he showed little respect by ensuring almost all the other coaches were in place . You have to remember Zorn was Cerrattos hire and it was down to Vinny to give Dan a high level of confidence in his choice but because Vinny was little more than a glorified yes man he let Snyder get to close to the team . Synder is the kind of owner who wants to be on hand . Some coaches can deal with that (Gibbs) but others see it as interfering (Shottenhiemer) . What the Redskins need is a buffer and I think we actually have that in Allen. :applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DexterSackMachine Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 People always mention this but how exactly? I did hear rumors about him calling Zorn in to look at games with him and why he called certain plays and he had to give him an explaination. That was no "rumor", Zorn openly talked about that during interviews last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DexterSackMachine Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 Who hired Zorn?Who hired Vinny? Snyder is the big picture. He is the person most responsible for the total dysfunction here over the last decade. 100% true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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