Going against the Mob, somewhat in support of Haynesworth

[Larry Brown #43]

but this is another example of how things are nowadays , get it in writing because nobodies word is good anymore.

Perhaps, but my gawd that would be an awful precident, to have it written into a player's contract that only a specific defensive scheme will be used.

[MassSkinsFan]

truth be told AH is a douche, but given the way teams treat players Its hard for me to take their side or ignore when they act like dinks.

This I get. I don't agree 100%, but I get it, and I can see why you feel that way.

[MassSkinsFan]

Perhaps, but my gawd that would be an awful precident, to have it written into a player's contract that only a specific defensive scheme will be used.

It won't ever happen - it would kill the league.

That's why I keep hammering that point - there's no way in hell it could be possible.

[Ryman of the North]

Perhaps, but my gawd that would be an awful precident, to have it written into a player's contract that only a specific defensive scheme will be used.

It would, but I would imagine that last year had Albert been a bit more astute it would have happened. we were willing to give more money than everyone but Tampa, and Albert made the choice based on the fact that he thought we had more young talent on defence and because we used to be aggressive under Williams and were really quite close to having all the pieces.

we wanted AH badly and truth be told had we added a decent solb and perhaps a free safety we would have been illegal in a more aggressive defence.

[SWFLSkins]

I certainly hope your feeling better Ryman, and yes the collection position holds some merit, however when someone asks you directly what you want to do and also what it is expected of you if you take that signifigant payment on the contract I do believe that he is indeed at the minimal a liar.

[SWFLSkins]

I saw that on the news as well and thought the same. Albert Haynesworth and his trainer have been exposed for what they are. HE was not getting in great shape with his off season program and then came to the team late. He then attempted to get in quick shape I beleive and caused this condition himself. You can't cram for a physical exam or a test to gauge conditioning without this occuring. Which I think happened to the HS players with their new coach in oregon as well.

Again Ryman, I think the man is a liar, and had his trainer lie for him. He was not and is not in football shape, Atkins dieter supreme yes, football shape no.

[SKINchiefer]

Sometimes, during times like these, all a player needs is support.

[HailGreen28]

Sorry Guys , been sick (dealing with actual kidney issues) havent had much online time, I'll try to get to some of the more well argued points when i get some time.

for SWFLSKINS and this post, the 21 million was never the redskins chip to use for bargaining, it was a valid Payment that was alberts as long as he was on the roster and was written into the contract as a bonus as a way for us to give him more money in the uncapped year and avoid a huge cap hit. so basically the skins said " hey we will let you find another team IF YOU DONT CASH A "Payment "CHEQUE THAT IS LEGITIMATELY YOURS. there was no way he was going to find another team willing to give him a 21 million dollar that season and I don't blame him at all for taking the money. after all I have seen players get cut because they made 600,000 and the team could replace them with a rookie for 200,000. The best analogy for this in a real world setting is this, You get an 80 thousand dollar salary, as part of that salary they give you one lump sum payment of 40 thousand. after half a year, just before they pay you that lump sum they tell you " we have no grounds to fire you or lay you off but we know you are unhappy and so are we, if you let us off the hook for the 40k we will let you find another place to work." basically you have already earned that 40k simply by working the first half of the year, you just agreed to let them pay you in a lump sum.

Thats why it is so annoying to see the word "thief" here, he is not a thief in any way shape or form, yes he is obviously spoiled, whiny, childlike, self centered, egotistical and even sometimes lazy, he obviously feels entitled given his immense talent and frankly he is brutal at PR but anyone who calls him a thief for taking a legitimate payment that was owed, is an idiot who cannot be bothered to read.

I just dont get why you guys think Albert should be held accountable but not the team, from day one I have said that when people are honest and keep their word, there are no problems, this whole issue started when THE TEAM didnt keep its word, and the Albert chose not to keep his. thats the bottom line and the reason I said I somewhat supported Albert.

Has he done some stupid stuff? hell yes. do I think he is entirely to blame? nope.

#1. Hope you feel better. Take care...... Get back to practice you slacker! *cracks whip*

#2. In other posts, you keep saying the Skins broke their word. But you post no evidence that any promises were ever made. We know at least two promises Fat boy broke. He promised he'd do whatever the team asked him to do when he was signed. He promised to get in shape with a personal trainer over the summer. The Skins didn't lie about anything. Fat Boy did.

#3. I would really like to see a source from somebody on what kind of bonus the 21 mil. really was. For example: If it was a roster bonus that was guaranteed only if we didn't cut or trade Fat Boy over the summer, the Skins would have been well within their rights to say "We won't cut you right before the bonus condition is due, as long as you agree to play despite your misgivings with the new staff, if you don't find a trading partner by then." Under circumstances like that, yes Fat Boy is literally a damn thief.

It's already proven on the other issues that Fat Boy is a lying turd.

[SWFLSkins]

thanks btw, and I agree, but the fact is that we did agree to build around him , thats on us.

We as in the Skins? Or We as in Snyder and Vinny, who btw are no longer in charge. This btw is :beatdeadhorse:

[Chachie]

It's already proven on the other issues that Fat Boy is a lying turd.

Despite being in absolute agreement with you, HG- I should take a moment to point out that he's our lying turd. He's family and if he can get on board he's gonna rampage this season especially as the better-conditioned athlete that Shanny's trying to make him. I only wish he'd take that point of view instead of resisting the things that will keep him from gassing in the 3rd quarter.

[Ryman of the North]

Despite being in absolute agreement with you, HG- I should take a moment to point out that he's our lying turd. He's family and if he can get on board he's gonna rampage this season especially as the better-conditioned athlete that Shanny's trying to make him. I only wish he'd take that point of view instead of resisting the things that will keep him from gassing in the 3rd quarter.

Noooooooo trade him for a 5th rounder or a bag of footballs, its the only way!

[Chachie]

Noooooooo trade him for a 5th rounder or a bag of footballs, its the only way!

Wouldn't do that deal w/o the ham sammy being thrown in.

[mel25]

Perhaps, but my gawd that would be an awful precident, to have it written into a player's contract that only a specific defensive scheme will be used.

wouldn't a team still be able to get around it by using titles? for example, call it a 4-3 and just label orakpo as a LB, and carter as a DE. and just have mcintosh line up a little closer to fletcher, and have our D-lineman move inside a little more.

[MassSkinsFan]

wouldn't a team still be able to get around it by using titles? for example, call it a 4-3 and just label orakpo as a LB, and carter as a DE. and just have mcintosh line up a little closer to fletcher, and have our D-lineman move inside a little more.

The main reasons you'll never see this:

1. Impossible (or very hard) to enforce - who's going to track the number of 4-3 v. 3-4 formations they line up in? Would the league need a new division - The Office of Defensive Scheme Contractual Enforcement?
   
2. Teams need flexibility and can't be bound to just one scheme - they need to be able to react to offensive changes or different opponents
   
3. It's just a plain silly idea
   

[SWFLSkins]

Absolutely!!!

The other example of how things are nowadays is that there was a management decision to change an operational system (the D scheme) without or in spite of proper assessment and understanding of the skill set of the workforce.

I just went through a 2 year stretch where the small, efficient and innovative little company I was working for was bought by a slow, inefficient, bureaucratic giant that felt threatened by us (our 300 people v. their 10,000+).

They assessed what we did and found we were very good at it, and were advised to leave us to operate as we had, but as a contributing division of the larger company. Rather than capitalize on our skills they stuffed us into their mold, destroying the things that made us attractive for acquisition in the first place, and losing many many valuable and talented employees.

That happens everywhere these days. But, you need to get over it and keep putting food on the table. I could stamp my feet and puff my cheeks about what happened and also about how my work skills are being misused/wasted due to a change in my role, but I'm glad to have a job, and trying to learn from the changes that have happened. Of course I might be more inclined to quit if I'd just received a $21 million payment...

___________________________________

Sorry for the huge quotation there MODs but this is a gem of a post. If I just catch one more set of eyes it was worth the block, IMO. Manangement changes and at times regret those changes and go back to what was working. Hang in there Mass it might work out in the long run yet. Loyalty pays off especially if you hang when the going gets tough. You might even be the one to finally have that oppourtunity to suggest "hey did you ever consider using some of the processes that worked before? and may the company attractive for a acquistion in the first place?

Albert NOW says he understands his role, he should have been here in the first place. In shape working with his new team in his new role, making the best of it. But yeah, he took the money and the easy way out.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Again Ryman, I think the man is a liar, and had his trainer lie for him. He was not and is not in football shape, Atkins dieter supreme yes, football shape no.

Fwiw, many NFL players have worked with Al's trainer...including Phillips Daniels.

So I'd be somewhat surprised if he would risk his reputation to lie just for Albert.

[CajunSkin]

I wish I could under-perform and still get paid just because my boss changed his mind and I had to do something that isn't in my job description and he actually expected me to continue training for my role. Any of us would have been canned for pulling off this halfarsed crybaby routine.

He's acting like a diva and would probably already be playing first team if he wouldn't have thrown a hissy, skipped OTA's, training, and expected Coach Mike to roll over like Zorn.

Coach S: "Hey hey hey, Albert - we want you to switch out into other looks in the 3-4 so we can keep the opposing o-line off balance and so we as a team can do better!"

Albert H: "Aw hell no! I want -my- numbers! And a cheeseburger."

[Ryman of the North]

I wish I could under-perform and still get paid just because my boss changed his mind and I had to do something that isn't in my job description and he actually expected me to continue training for my role. Any of us would have been canned for pulling off this halfarsed crybaby routine.

Thats exactly why the average person is so unwilling to look at the situation with an unbaised eye, the truth is none of us have ever been given a 100 million dollar contract because none of us is in the top 5 list for something that would enable to understand.

The only reason I get it is because Ive gone through some dumbass coach letting his ego cloud his judgement and instead of doing whats best for the TEAM he tried to force a square peg in a round hole. in my case I was good enough to finally say " um no I am not going to do that" but in my case I hadnt been given a hundred mil either.

The Skins have done a great job making this sound more about the money than anything else and AH hasnt done himself any favours.

[slaga]

The Skins have done a great job making this sound more about the money than anything else and AH hasnt done himself any favours.

Ryman you are welcome to your opinion that almost no one shares with you about AH being wronged in any way. I do not share that opinion but I will respect that you do.

You are absolutely correct that it is about the money! AH worked real hard in his contract year, got the contract he wanted and then got lazy. AH skipped every offseason practice, camp, meeting, except 1. The one where he was told by the new regime that if he accepts the check he is due, he will be expected to play the defense they will be running. The only reason he even showed up at training camp was because the Skins could start going after the bonus he was already paid if he did not show up. Even to Albert Haynseworth, it is about the money. If it was not, he would walk away or buy his way out of the contract.

The Skins have a lot invested in a lazy DT that was gased last year before the 1st quarter was done. A player that routinely skipped practice and showed up on game day out of shape because he was allowed to. The Skins have not gotten their money's worth because they gambled and lost big time. Albert has no self motivation and that does not mix well with a big check. It is obvious that both sides are not happy with the other and at some point they will meet in the middle somewhere or one will cut their losses and move on. It is all about the money.

[Ryman of the North]

Ryman you are welcome to your opinion that almost no one shares with you about AH being wronged in any way. I do not share that opinion but I will respect that you do.

You are absolutely correct that it is about the money! AH worked real hard in his contract year, got the contract he wanted and then got lazy. AH skipped every offseason practice, camp, meeting, except 1. The one where he was told by the new regime that if he accepts the check he is due, he will be expected to play the defense they will be running. The only reason he even showed up at training camp was because the Skins could start going after the bonus he was already paid if he did not show up. Even to Albert Haynseworth, it is about the money. If it was not, he would walk away or buy his way out of the contract.

The Skins have a lot invested in a lazy DT that was gased last year before the 1st quarter was done. A player that routinely skipped practice and showed up on game day out of shape because he was allowed to. The Skins have not gotten their money's worth because they gambled and lost big time. Albert has no self motivation and that does not mix well with a big check. It is obvious that both sides are not happy with the other and at some point they will meet in the middle somewhere or one will cut their losses and move on. It is all about the money.

if by almost noone you mean the ten people who actually bother to look past the drama and propoganda then yes almost noone. thankfully that doesnt actually mean exactly noone.

[HailGreen28]

If you look past the drama and propaganda, all you're left with is a guy who got paid, and hasn't lived up to his contract.

[GoDeep81]

If you look past the drama and propaganda, all you're left with is a guy who got paid, and hasn't lived up to his contract.

QFT!! :point2sky

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

If you look past the drama and propaganda, all you're left with is a guy who got paid, and hasn't lived up to his contract.

Even if Al was on his best behavior, he'd still never be able to live up to his contract.:2cents:

[slaga]

if by almost noone you mean the ten people who actually bother to look past the drama and propoganda then yes almost noone. thankfully that doesnt actually mean exactly noone.

Go ahead and think that 10, out of the 150 people or more that have responded to this thread, are seeing the light and the vast majority are blinded by drama and propaganda. Keep on being delusional. I guarantee you that if you said you were abducted by aliens, there would be at least 10 people that would agree with you and say that they had been abducted just like you.

Albert is a headcase that the Skins gambled on and so far, the Skins are losing the bet. One year into the contract, they knew they were switching defensive schemes and offered an out to Albert. Albert had to choose between $$$ and being traded to a team playing a 4-3 defense or possibly being released and it is obvious to the vast majority which he chose. That $21 mil bonus was not for time already played, but part of the 4 year / $41 mil contract that he has 3 years left to play, in a 3-4 defense. Albert made his choice and now it is time to honor the contract.

[SWFLSkins]

Fwiw, many NFL players have worked with Al's trainer...including Phillips Daniels.

So I'd be somewhat surprised if he would risk his reputation to lie just for Albert.

Okay but your proving my point. Al is a liar or the trainer is a liar, or both. He is not in football shape or he is. He can't have the Rhabdomyolysis and be in football shape, so which one is a liar?

Mass had posted this before in this thread.....

Quote:

The syndrome, rhabdomyolysis, often occurs when athletes who have not been training have a sudden increase in the intensity of their workouts, like a return to practice after a summer break, said Dr. Rupert P. Galvez, a sports medicine doctor who wrote a 2008 article about the syndrome.

Maybe Al's camp saw this and decided he had this too. If so, they're a bit stupid because it really points to him not being in playing shape, and that's a bone of contention Shanny has with him.