Going against the Mob, somewhat in support of Haynesworth

[Ryman of the North]

Actually, this board operates by people making claims and posting links to back them up, otherwise they are nothing more than a liar and a troll. For instance, I could claim you are not who you claim to be and have no professional football experience, but then I would have to have information to back that claim up with or I would be seen as a liar and a troll and, rightfully so, be ridiculed and probably banned.

It is funny how I have seen you call people out for not reading and not backing up their comments, yet when the tables are turned, you just use insults. This leads me to conclude what you have made very easy and evident: You are sticking up for Albert because you are cast from the same mold. Both of you are arrogant and self-absorbed, thinking that the rules don't apply to you, just to everyone else. When you don't get your way, you have to go juvenile with the insults and dodge your responsibility in a situation, laying the blame on everyone else for your mess.

It was one thing to start this thread when you did, but after all that has transpired since then, for you to still be trumpeting this to help parade your anti-Shanahan and Haslett agenda is really nothing less than pathetic.

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=330315

when I posted that link it was two threads away. weird how that works eh?

You look sort of silly when there is a thread two threads up titled "teammates defend Al" hmmm and you are calling me out.

where exactly did I insult anyone? I said we need less vitriolic idiocy, you want to see some? just read any thread with haynesworth in the title. Thats not Juvenile that is called being apt. I get personally attacked simply because some morons didnt even read the title they read "SOMEWHAT" (and ignored that) but saw support and haynesworth and lose their minds, lmao.

Its not like Shannahan has a history of fighting with Dlinemen (maybe hes still pissed about his kidney? I dont know) Gardner and pryce ring a bell? but his actions throughout this gong show have been retarded. Its not like Shannahan didnt know this chnage would cause a gong show (if he did any research on the roster like he supposedly did)

I stand by what I said, anyone who posts and buys into the media bullcrap without actually reading up on this is an idiot, anyone who parrots the party line without checking into the facts is an idiot. I cant read for you, I have posted links and such before I rarely bother now because most of the serious anti AH people act like they read it and then spout off again without having read it. case in point, I posted a link regarding AH's agent saying " when Albert signed a major reason was the TEAM promised they would use him correctly and not run a 3-4 and expect him to take up blocks" the team never once denied this yet I get some goombah every 3 pages saying " post your source on this" go read the damn thread ffs. once you can sort through the retards there is actually some good football talk on here.

and I am not the one bumping this thread

[SWFLSkins]

LOL dude, when an athlete says what he really thinks they usually get pilloried, like last year when Mcrapp said that the fecals were the better team despite us beating them both times. noticce how after that he went back to the typical " we gave a 110%, the ball bounced that way," type responces? because of this they tend to say what they think people want to hear and rarely say what they think, thats why we love guys like Charles barkley who speak their mind.

SWFL- NFL players, coaches and FO may be the least truthful occupations in the world, just look at the injury reports lol

Besides you already stated that players and coaches are liars, why quote them?

[Ryman of the North]

Nice try but you said.....

"actually several players on the skins have actually said that haynesworth is not entirely wrong , but that doesnt make for a good news story."

At 5:16. The news item you are now referencing wasn't a thread until over an hour later.

Actually Hall has openly supported AH before this and there was a thread about that as well. Fletcher has openly stated that he didnt want to get involved as he felt both parties made a mistake (which oddly enough was the entire original premise for this thread.) this was just the most recent example.

[Ryman of the North]

Besides you already stated that players and coaches are liars, why quote them?

This is extremely true lol unless you of course are an anti AH guy in which case everyone tells the truth but him and anyone supporting him lmao

its just funny, some people will not think for themselves, I just havent seen that on extremeskins before, im used to the old board where you didnt have to explain everything because guys like BD, art , navydave and others actually read as much as I did and could argue rationally without losing their minds, if they asked for a source it was once in a while because usually they beat me to it.

[SWFLSkins]

I wonder how the Haynesworth supporters feel about Al now? Is the team still at fault? Was he really working hard at conditioning? Was his trainer being truthful?

Well? Was he in shape? He is a victim of himself not working hard enough. And he has already stated that he will not work out with the team next year. Is that the teams fault?

You know if or when he burns a bridge between he and London Fletcher this will be at a point of no return. HE told London he is on board, is it the right bus?

[SWFLSkins]

This is extremely true lol unless you of course are an anti AH guy in which case everyone tells the truth but him and anyone supporting him lmao

its just funny, some people will not think for themselves, I just havent seen that on extremeskins before, im used to the old board where you didnt have to explain everything because guys like BD, art , navydave and others actually read as much as I did and could argue rationally without losing their minds, if they asked for a source it was once in a while because usually they beat me to it.

Here is where you fail and fail hard. Because someone does not agree with you means they are thinking for themselves. The Old Board? :ols:Your hilarious.

BTW, I am not an anti Al guy, I am btw a big team work guy.

[onedrop]

Maybe if people spent some time actually reading they wouldnt need to be spoon fed.

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=330315

Actually Hall has openly supported AH before this and there was a thread about that as well. Fletcher has openly stated that he didnt want to get involved as he felt both parties made a mistake (which oddly enough was the entire original premise for this thread.) this was just the most recent example.

Its just ironic that your premise is that "several" other players showed some support for 92 but that doesn't make a good "news story" then use a thread started later ABOUT just such a news story to bolster your argument.

[Chachie]

Maybe if people spent some time actually reading they wouldnt need to be spoon fed.

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=330315

I read that article a few hours ago and you were the first person I thought of, Rymes.

To your credit, a player has seemingly come out in support of AH. I mean that. You stood your ground and this is a big sway in your favor. If one player stands up for him, more are secretly sympathetic.

I do want to point out some things about that article though. (You took your shot at Sally Jenkins.)

If you read Hall's quotes carefully you will see that he's talking about being sympathetic to laziness.

"I'm just going to be real with you. It's hot, it's training camp, it's two-a-days. I want the easiest path possible."

He also jumps the fence and comments on Shanny's methods.

"He has no problem adjusting to things or even changing his mind on things. And that's what I love about him. I can always go in there and talk to him about anything.

"He's definitely strict and definitely wants things done the right way, but he doesn’t mind changing or bending a couple things to help meet a particular person and their situation."

Now I'm here specifically to give you props for having somewhat of a point and for sticking to it until you were quasi-vindicated... but - DeAngelo Hall and every other guy who may find himself understanding Albert's pov attended offseason workouts and haven't complained about anything in the new staff's rule book. They are walking the walk.

[SWFLSkins]

And that interview falls into the "Hardly in support of Haynesworth" category

"You have your high-profile player in Albert Haynesworth, who I think everybody knows he didn't perform up to the standard we needed him to play at last year," Hall said on the Sports Fix. "I don't think he played in a single NFC East game. Maybe one. We definitely need him for that dominance in those games."

He goes on to make a statement about Shannahan's flexibility in dealing with players. So what's your point?

Its just ironic that your premise is that "several" other players showed some support for 92 but that doesn't make a good "news story" then use a thread started later ABOUT just such a news story to bolster your argument.

I don't know what is funnier, your point or the fact that he quoted the Hall interview that refutes his own arguement.:hysterical:

[respectgibbs]

My friend saw Haynesworth at melting pot in reston tonight with his gf.

[Larry Brown #43]

Fletcher has also said the following:

"I want teammates who I can depend on, who I can count on ... he's shown he can't be depended on."

and...

“It’s no different than his attitude and approach to last year’s defense…about wanting everything to revolve around him and him making plays. And if it didn’t benefit him, he wasn’t really willing to do it.”

Yeah, so London and Albert have now had a good talk. That's great, and a classy move by a leader like London to try to get through to the knucklehead. (Notice London didn't have to have a talk with, say, Philip Daniels to make sure he's on board).

And London now says Albert is "on board." But he certainly didn't use language as strong as the language he used in the quotes above. It's fine for Albert to tell London he's "on board." But only time will tell. Albert has a lot of ground to make up to prove he's not only on board, but willing to make the sacrifices it takes to be a part of this team.

Saying you're on board means nothing unless you follow it up with consistent, dependable action. Albert has yet to prove that he is dependable.

[Larry Brown #43]

its just funny, some people will not think for themselves, I just havent seen that on extremeskins before, im used to the old board where you didnt have to explain everything because guys like BD, art , navydave and others actually read as much as I did and could argue rationally without losing their minds, if they asked for a source it was once in a while because usually they beat me to it.

Well, I've been here since before Spurrier coached his first game for us (not as long as you, but still pretty damn long), and I have to say that you seem to be only reading the things about Al that you want to read. I'm one who does think for himself, and I always question the motives of the media. But with Al, I'm looking straight at the facts of the case. Forget the optional stuff--We're talking about a guy who skipped MANDATORY practices.

The fact that he was complaining about playing with backups the other night shows he has no grasp of the fact that he has a loooong way to go to prove to this coaching staff that they can depend on him. They don't trust him yet, and well they shouldn't. He wants it handed to him because of the size of his paycheck. That may have been the way this franchise has operated in the past, but not anymore.

Haslett put it perfectly today, noting that Albert has participated in about 6 out of 40+ practices the team has held since Shanny took over. He's way behind, and Albert himself admitted he doesn't yet have the defense down.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I agree with Doc Walker about one thing: We are not beating the Cowboys without Albert in the starting line-up. :2cents:

Truthfully,Albert doesn't have to like Shanahan but if nothing else he needs play for the other 52 guys in that locker room.

So Al, just chill....learn the defense and lets get ready to handle your business on Sept. 12.

[HailGreen28]

OK Ryman, you and I have been on this merry-go-round enough times, and demonstrated enough love for the Skins in other threads, we can debate civilly. The "spoon fed" comment is uncalled for. Especially since your link IS NOT any source to your claim.

You claim

actually several players on the skins have actually said that haynesworth is not entirely wrong , but that doesnt make for a good news story.

The link you posted to try backing your claim..

Maybe if people spent some time actually reading they wouldnt need to be spoon fed.

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=330315

#1. I know D Hall can cover well at times, but he is only one person. Not "several".

#2. I don't see how you can take quotes in your link like - “I think, as a player, to be given that ultimatum … to either pass the test or you’re not going to practice, I'm not going to be sweating too hard about passing that test," Hall said. - as any statement that Fat Boy is not entirely wrong. What Hall is saying in the article, is that he would do wrong as well. THIS IS NOT A DEFENSE by any stretch of the imagination. It's like saying, "my co worker comes in late and leaves early, I'd do it too." Not a good attitude to keep any job.

So I'll ask again: Please provide a source or sources that "several players on the skins have actually said that haynesworth is not entirely wrong", as you claimed.

This isn't life or death or anything serious, but it would be nice if you started backing up your claims on the subject of Fat Boy, as you back up claims on other topics.

Hail!

[gutlead74]

What's been missed in all this BS is that our boy has been very average vs second string talent. The player always controls his own playing time Al is to much of a fool and a child to get this concept.

[tiger187126]

I agree with Doc Walker about one thing: We are not beating the Cowboys without Albert in the starting line-up. :2cents:

Truthfully,Albert doesn't have to like Shanahan but if nothing else he needs play for the other 52 guys in that locker room.

So Al, just chill....learn the defense and lets get ready to handle your business on Sept. 12.

what has al done this season to show you that he would make a difference in this defense, or at least a large enough change to win us an otherwise un-winnable game by your account without him?

we were 4-12 last year with haynesworth. i know everyone said when we signed him that he was a game changer and could win us games by taking over, but he never did.

sure our guys had a ton of sacks, but i can't remember one game our defense won because of sacks or takeaways from rushed passes.

al=winning is the most overrated, misunderstood thing to people who defend him.

show me once where al took over a game and won. show me once where he played in a 3-4 and wasn't anything but average (and this is against inferior talent).

what doc is saying is he's allegedly one of the best talents on your team and you want all your talents when you go to play. this isn't something that he said, it was originally brought up by Coach Thompson who doesn't know much about football at all and it was made before he ever set foot on even the practice field.

now that we've all seen his average performances and after haslett has been making no substitutions during drives this preseason, you've been able to see how truly ineffective he is at clogging up the middle. the center/guard will just ride him right through the backfield past the ball carrier or just push him right out of the way 1 on 1 because he doesn't have the stamina to put up a good effort for more than 3 consecutive snaps.

saying we need haynesworth to win is about as good an argument as saying malcolm kelly should start over devin thomas because his madden rating is higher.

[SWFLSkins]

Logic would dictate that when you are offered to leave because they understand the situation, and you take the money anyway and then demand a trade, you are a thief.

Glad to see you lending Haynesworth some support. It makes me even more comfortable knowing that I'm on the opposite side of any opinion from you.

See that right there ends any argument in favor of him. The Skins gave him a way out and he took the money anyway. I don't feel bad for him at all. He had his chance to leave, but wanted the money. If they didn't give him a chance to leave, I would sort of feel for him, but since he basically said he was cool with it and now wants to leave, screw him.

Sorry, I don't buy it...you even said it yourself:

"...he should have been more vocal BEFORE THE 21 MILLION DOLLAR BONUS PAYMENT, and now he should be showing up to at least hear out this new "hybrid" scheme, but from what Ive read he was tapped to play NT not DE and he was frankly not interested."

So basically he THINKS he won't like his role, TAKES $21M anyway even though we gave him an out before that payment, and then DEMANDS A TRADE/BOYCOTTS mini-camp.

He's not Gargamel or something, but he's immature, deceitful, and unaccountable. All things that, at his age, warrant plenty of the blame in this situation.

I'd have respected him if this 3-4 was so important to him that he declined the money and became a FA. I'd have respected him if the money was so important to him that he took it and worked hard despite being "out of position" in the defense. Hell, I'd even kind of respect him if he took the money, intended to work hard "out of position", showed up to camp and THEN realized he hated the scheme.

But he did none of those things. He took the money, promised to be a good soldier, didn't show any interest in learning about the way we want to use him in the new defense/assumed he'd hate it, and now is causing problems.

Sorry, I don't have any sympathy for him at all.

The posts above are from the first page and still hold water today. This is a classic thread from an "Old Board" member. It should be discussed.

This last experiment in outspending the competition should serve the team as lesson on it's old behavior and not to repeat the dismal past of over paying me type players. Can Al change his spots? He certainly has said he was several times only to go back to the same selvish player that he was, before he even got here. I stand firmly in support of Shannahan.

[MassSkinsFan]

What's been missed in all this BS is that our boy has been very average vs second string talent. The player always controls his own playing time Al is to much of a fool and a child to get this concept.

What Hall is saying in the article, is that he would do wrong as well. THIS IS NOT A DEFENSE by any stretch of the imagination. It's like saying, "my co worker comes in late and leaves early, I'd do it too." Not a good attitude to keep any job.

Haslett put it perfectly today, noting that Albert has participated in about 6 out of 40+ practices the team has held since Shanny took over. He's way behind, and Albert himself admitted he doesn't yet have the defense down.

These are the salient points (to me) regarding the AH situation - he's not ready to be a starter in our D, and doesn't appear to be busting his hump getting ready.

Anything else is really not germane to the problem. (Remember that Al is not part of the management team of the Redskins, and decisions about which defense to utilize, which positions a given player will play, etc., are management decisions. So, those arguments aren't really relevant to his current problem since management, not employees, dictates the terms.)

PS - I'll have a small side of crow with my challenge to provide a quote of a teammate openly supporting AH, but it's full of other yummy goodness only because DHall chimed in AFTER I made the challenge, and he's only one guy (not several).

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

what doc is saying is he's allegedly one of the best talents on your team and you want all your talents when you go to play. this isn't something that he said, it was originally brought up by Coach Thompson who doesn't know much about football at all and it was made before he ever set foot on even the practice field.

No...Doc Walker stated yesterday that the Skins won't beat Dallas without Albert..and he gave his reasons why.

And Coach Thompson is on vacation this week.

This was all Doc.:2cents:

[SWFLSkins]

PS - I'll have a small side of crow with my challenge to provide a quote of a teammate openly supporting AH, but it's full of other yummy goodness only because DHall chimed in AFTER I made the challenge, and he's only one guy (not several).

__________________

Added to this Mass is that his latest comments were far from supporting AH. He say the Skins would be a better team with him yes, but that is about it. HE also elaborates about last year's subpar performance from the tackle.

________________________________

Here are the comments from the interview, How supportive was he?

____________________________________

http://www.chatredskins.com/news/view/2574505

Washington Redskins cornerback DeAngelo Hall(notes) has never been at a loss for words. Now he's speaking out on the injury-related stalemate between his defensive teammate, tackle Albert Haynesworth(notes), and his head coach, Mike Shanahan.

Hall, in a radio interview with D.C.-based WTEM 980 AM on Monday, talked about just how valuable Haynesworth is to the Redskins' defense and how the situation could have been handled better.

"You have your high-profile player in Albert Haynesworth, who I think everybody knows he didn't perform up to the standard we needed him to play at last year," Hall said on the Sports Fix. "I don't think he played in a single NFC East game. Maybe one. We definitely need him for that dominance in those games."

Read the full transcript of Hall's interview and listen to the full clip at SportsRadioInterviews.com

Hall also shared Haynesworth's sentiment when it came down to the tackle needing to pass a conditioning test before being able to practice for Shanahan:

“I think, as a player, to be given that ultimatum … to either pass the test or you’re not going to practice, I'm not going to be sweating too hard about passing that test," Hall said.

"I'm just going to be real with you. It's hot, it's training camp, it's two-a-days. I want the easiest path possible.

"I want to play in games, I don't want to go out there and practice. For him to be given that kind of scenario or choice, it wasn't a hard one for him."

Hall, however, says he agrees with and respects Shanahan's coaching style so far.

"He has no problem adjusting to things or even changing his mind on things. And that's what I love about him. I can always go in there and talk to him about anything.

"He's definitely strict and definitely wants things done the right way, but he doesn’t mind changing or bending a couple things to help meet a particular person and their situation."

[MassSkinsFan]

Added to this Mass is that his latest comments were far from supporting AH. He say the Skins would be a better team with him yes, but that is about it. HE also elaborates about last year's subpar performance from the tackle.

________________________________

Here are the comments from the interview, How supportive was he?

Yep - it's marginal. I'm just trying to be accountable, and fair to Ryman since he's making an effort (albeit a slightly misguided one ) and is one of the members whose posts I regularly enjoy.

[SWFLSkins]

Yep - it's marginal. I'm just trying to be accountable, and fair to Ryman since he's making an effort (albeit a slightly misguided one ) and is one of the members whose posts I regularly enjoy.

Yeah I am with you there. I don't mind his views, I just don't see eye to eye with him on this in particular. Sadly I think he really believes Al is not largely at fault here.

[Archangel1750]

Has anyone considered that Haynesworth's "medical" condition was brought on by himself. Dr. Kaplan, ESPN medical analyst, described the condition that Haynesworth is claiming as a condition brought on by extreme exertion to muscles by breaking them down. That is exactly what happens when you work out as well. Remember Haynesworth chose not to attend the Redskins workouts, and do his own with his own trainer. He suppossedly lost @35 pounds. Haynesworth may have done this to himself and is now trying to ride this to his full advantage since everyone knows he isn't happy with his current situation...Just food for thought!

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Has anyone considered that Haynesworth's "medical" condition was brought on by himself. Dr. Kaplan, ESPN medical analyst, described the condition that Haynesworth is claiming as a condition brought on by extreme exertion to muscles by breaking them down. That is exactly what happens when you work out as well. Remember Haynesworth chose not to attend the Redskins workouts, and do his own with his own trainer. He suppossedly lost @35 pounds. Haynesworth may have done this to himself and is now trying to ride this to his full advantage since everyone knows he isn't happy with his current situation...Just food for thought!

It's entirely possible.

[MassSkinsFan]

Has anyone considered that Haynesworth's "medical" condition was brought on by himself. Dr. Kaplan, ESPN medical analyst, described the condition that Haynesworth is claiming as a condition brought on by extreme exertion to muscles by breaking them down. That is exactly what happens when you work out as well. Remember Haynesworth chose not to attend the Redskins workouts, and do his own with his own trainer. He suppossedly lost @35 pounds. Haynesworth may have done this to himself and is now trying to ride this to his full advantage since everyone knows he isn't happy with his current situation...Just food for thought!

Yes I have.

In my work experience, I've seen patients in a clinical trial test for high creatine kinase (CK), which can indicate a few serious issues, including rhabdomyolysis.

In the cases of these patients (three of them) they were in OK shape, but then exercised heavily a day or two before blood draws. Those blood samples had high CK because they over-exerted (this was investigated and confirmed by doctors) and the CK levels went down within a week.

I suspect this happened to AH and that someone somewhere in the organization looked up high CK on wikipedia and saw it could be indicative of rhabdomyolysis.

There was also a news article on Saturday about a football team in Oregon where several team members developed rhabdomyolysis. Here's an interesting and possibly pertinent quote from the article:

The syndrome, rhabdomyolysis, often occurs when athletes who have not been training have a sudden increase in the intensity of their workouts, like a return to practice after a summer break, said Dr. Rupert P. Galvez, a sports medicine doctor who wrote a 2008 article about the syndrome.

Maybe Al's camp saw this and decided he had this too. If so, they're a bit stupid because it really points to him not being in playing shape, and that's a bone of contention Shanny has with him.