Going against the Mob, somewhat in support of Haynesworth

[HailGreen28]

Even if Al was on his best behavior, he'd still never be able to live up to his contract.:2cents:

And who's fault is that? Fat Boy played at that level the year before we signed him. Who's shoulders is it on, that he's been out of shape since?

[Ryman of the North]

And who's fault is that? Fat Boy played at that level the year before we signed him. Who's shoulders is it on, that he's been out of shape since?

LOL the morons who gave a hundred million to a guy known as a huge talent with a ten cent head may shoulder some of the blame for that. would YOU turn down a huge payday? even if you KNEW it was gonna mean expectations that you could not possibly live up to? lmao.

[Chachie]

LOL the morons who gave a hundred million to a guy known as a huge talent with a ten cent head may shoulder some of the blame for that. would YOU turn down a huge payday? even if you KNEW it was gonna mean expectations that you could not possibly live up to? lmao.

:doh:

It's not really a $100 million dollar scenario. The media and the fans have got to let that sink in. He's not going to make $100 million from the Redskins. His base contract is $48 million or somewhere close to that. His own bad conditioning has and will continue to prevent him from being a $100 million dollar man.

(My numbers aren't exact. Anyone have this info handy?)

[CajunSkin]

:doh:

It's not really a $100 million dollar scenario. The media and the fans have got to let that sink in. He's not going to make $100 million from the Redskins. His base contract is $48 million or somewhere close to that. His own bad conditioning has and will continue to prevent him from being a $100 million dollar man.

(My numbers aren't exact. Anyone have this info handy?)

Hey Chachie - here's the numbers according to AKM311's post:

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=281844

Year Signing Bonus Option Bonus Salary

2009 $5 million -- $6 million

2010 -- $21 million $3.6 million

*2011 -- -- $5.4 million

2012 -- -- $7.2 million

Totals: four years, $48.2 million.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/03/01/freeagency/2.html#ixzz0xpAqCnrv

And to echo what has already been mentioned: at the end of the day we still have a guy that got paid and now doesn't want to perform unless he gets to do it his way. Selfish. And there's plenty of 'propaganda' on both sides of the 'fence.' There's also the behavior of both sides that can be observed. This thread is going to give me a 'headache.'

[Ryman of the North]

:doh:

It's not really a $100 million dollar scenario. The media and the fans have got to let that sink in. He's not going to make $100 million from the Redskins. His base contract is $48 million or somewhere close to that. His own bad conditioning has and will continue to prevent him from being a $100 million dollar man.

(My numbers aren't exact. Anyone have this info handy?)

the deal included 48 million in total salary and almost 60 million in bonuses some of which were couched as bonuses but were in actuality not (getting around the cap). He has received more than 26 million already out of the total 100 million of the orginal offer.

[MartinC]

the deal included 48 million in total salary and almost 60 million in bonuses some of which were couched as bonuses but were in actuality not (getting around the cap). He has received more than 26 million already out of the total 100 million of the orginal offer.

Whats been paid is whats been paid, its gone and we are where we are. I agree with your point of view to an extent that the size of the deal is not Haynesworths fault - its our fault for giving it to him. I do think though that having signed it and taken the money he has an obligation to play where he is told to by the coaching staff - he is a professional, he's paid to play. So play.

Whats important about his contract now though to my mind is that because he missed some mandatory OTA's this year I believe that none of the remaining money in his deal is guaranteed. Also he has no more bonus money left and reasonable base salaries.

This makes him very tradeable or affordable to keep if he suddenly gets with the programme and performs like he can/could.

[Chachie]

Hey Chachie - here's the numbers according to AKM311's post:

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=281844

Year Signing Bonus Option Bonus Salary

2009 $5 million -- $6 million

2010 -- $21 million $3.6 million

*2011 -- -- $5.4 million

2012 -- -- $7.2 million

Totals: four years, $48.2 million.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/03/01/freeagency/2.html#ixzz0xpAqCnrv

And to echo what has already been mentioned: at the end of the day we still have a guy that got paid and now doesn't want to perform unless he gets to do it his way. Selfish. And there's plenty of 'propaganda' on both sides of the 'fence.' There's also the behavior of both sides that can be observed. This thread is going to give me a 'headache.'

the deal included 48 million in total salary and almost 60 million in bonuses some of which were couched as bonuses but were in actuality not (getting around the cap). He has received more than 26 million already out of the total 100 million of the orginal offer.

Thanks, Gents. Hopefully the public can wrap their minds around the fact that the Redskins won't be paying Albert Haynesworth 100 million dollars. I thought I heard on ESPN's First Take one day that there's really only 9 million left to pay him of his guaranteed money, and that seems confirmed by Cajun's post. I'm not saying he's even earned what he's gotten but it seems important to point out that he's no 100 million dollar man.

[MartinC]

Thanks, Gents. Hopefully the public can wrap their minds around the fact that the Redskins won't be paying Albert Haynesworth 100 million dollars. I thought I heard on ESPN's First Take one day that there's really only 9 million left to pay him of his guaranteed money, and that seems confirmed by Cajun's post. I'm not saying he's even earned what he's gotten but it seems important to point out that he's no 100 million dollar man.

Because he missed mandatory sessions he now has no guaranteed money left in his contract.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/albert-haynesworth/redskins-fine-haynesworth-1000.html

[Est.1974]

I'm not saying he's even earned what he's gotten but it seems important to point out that he's no 100 million dollar man.

You're right, Haynesworth was always on his 4 year $48m deal prior to that $20m roster bonus kicking in at 2013.

The $100m was for ego's & headlines.

[Chachie]

Because he missed mandatory sessions he now has no guaranteed money left in his contract.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/albert-haynesworth/redskins-fine-haynesworth-1000.html

Holy moly! If I read that correctly, AH essentially paid 9 million dollars to skip work for a month! :rubeyes:

(Did I read it correctly?)

Edit- No, I don't think I did.

[MartinC]

Holy moly! If I read that correctly, AH essentially paid 9 million dollars to skip work for a month! :rubeyes:

Y

(Did I read it correctly?)

Edit- No, I don't think I did.

No he did not give up any actual money. What he did though is make it possible for us to cut him without owing him another penny. He would then lose the money owed on the balance of his deal. If he was available on the open market as a free agent though he would get a deal which paid him at least as much as he is owed by us under his current deal over the next 3 years.

At least that's what he and is Agent have calculated.

[HailGreen28]

LOL the morons who gave a hundred million to a guy known as a huge talent with a ten cent head may shoulder some of the blame for that. would YOU turn down a huge payday? even if you KNEW it was gonna mean expectations that you could not possibly live up to? lmao.

Not at all. His contract year, he played lights out. The 4 year 48 mil, or the 8 year 100 mil (if he could keep it up THAT long), would have been worth it if Fat Boy had played like that for us.

But Fat Boy didn't even try. He didn't show up in shape. He flopped. He tried to get traded after getting a huge payday in advance for salary cap reasons. He showed up out of shape again. He failed two conditioning tests. He got beat by 2nd/3rd stringers in the Ravens scrimmage. He stirs up crap in the media afterwards.

I don't blame Fat Boy for taking the money. I blame him for not earning it.

edit: Thanks for the info on FB's salary, guys.

[Ryman of the North]

a few more games like tonite and the bandwagon will fill up quick.

[Going Commando]

Not at all. His contract year, he played lights out. The 4 year 48 mil, or the 8 year 100 mil (if he could keep it up THAT long), would have been worth it if Fat Boy had played like that for us.

You know there has been an in depth film and statistical analysis by two separate sources--KC Joyner and the guys at Profootballfocus.com--that have actually demonstrated that Albert was slightly better for us in 2009 and he was for the Titans in 2008.

He was a little overrated in 2008, extremely underrated in 2009. He should have gotten a Pro-Bowl berth and should have gotten some All-Pro consideration had Kelly Gregg and Jonathan Babineaux not been better.

[Going Commando]

double post

[HailGreen28]

You know there has been an in depth film and statistical analysis by two separate sources--KC Joyner and the guys at Profootballfocus.com--that have actually demonstrated that Albert was slightly better for us in 2009 and he was for the Titans in 2008.

He was a little overrated in 2008, extremely underrated in 2009. He should have gotten a Pro-Bowl berth and should have gotten some All-Pro consideration had Kelly Gregg and Jonathan Babineaux not been better.

Link to the actual article? Cause you're the first person I've heard put Pro Bowl and FB in the same sentence since 2008.

[Going Commando]

Link to the actual article? Cause you're the first person I've heard put Pro Bowl and FB in the same sentence since 2008.

I don't have ESPN Insider any more so I can only post the link and not the text. Here's the article if you've got Insider: http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/columns/story?columnist=joyner_kc&id=5223108&action=login&appRedirect=http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/columns/story%3fcolumnist%3djoyner_kc%26id%3d5223108

It's a good one and Joyner demonstrates that Albert played more snaps here than he did in TN and yet had a better POA win rate in the running game than before. It also demonstrates that the amount of double teams he faced last season was comparable to the elite NTs in the NFL, and that playing NT in our scheme wouldn't substantially increase his rate of double teams.

As for the PFF analysis, they've taken down their rankings from last year when they updated the website and I can't find them any more. But they had Albert ranked fourth and then later third among defensive tackles for last season. Apparently in the 2008 season, they had him ranked 2nd or 4th among defensive tackles as well. They reference their end of year rankings a couple of times in separate articles:

Haynesworth was PFF’s #4 ranked DT last year, finishing with an overall 18.1 score, and was even better the year before, finishing #2 at DT with a 29.5 score, but this is a situation that is better left for somebody else to take on, regardless of the fact that he is clearly one of the premier DTs in the league.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/08/24/fantasy-idp-monday-morning-cornerback/

Haynesworth’s unhappiness with the Redskins’ shift to a 3-4 defense under new head coach Mike Shanahan is well-documented. But the cream always rises to the top, and Haynesworth (4th overall in 2008, 3rd overall in 2009) is too good to fail in a system that will most certainly be tweaked to maximize his effectiveness.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/08/19/idp-d/

PFF also gives a sterling recommendation of him in this Q&A: http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/08/17/ask-and-ye-shall-receive/

(My two cents: Haynesworth has been one of the best run-stopping DTs in the league, and is fairly likely to be the best overall 3-4 DE in 2010 with a talented Washington front seven. Mike Shanahan hasn’t had a slab of beef like Haynesworth in a long time.)

[skinfan2k]

Haynesworth looked amazing last night. Golston is trash compared to him on the DE spot

[HailGreen28]

I don't have ESPN Insider any more so I can only post the link and not the text. Here's the article if you've got Insider: http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/columns/story?columnist=joyner_kc&id=5223108&action=login&appRedirect=http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/columns/story%3fcolumnist%3djoyner_kc%26id%3d5223108

It's a good one and Joyner demonstrates that Albert played more snaps here than he did in TN and yet had a better POA win rate in the running game than before. It also demonstrates that the amount of double teams he faced last season was comparable to the elite NTs in the NFL, and that playing NT in our scheme wouldn't substantially increase his rate of double teams.

As for the PFF analysis, they've taken down their rankings from last year when they updated the website and I can't find them any more. But they had Albert ranked fourth and then later third among defensive tackles for last season. Apparently in the 2008 season, they had him ranked 2nd or 4th among defensive tackles as well. They reference their end of year rankings a couple of times in separate articles:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/08/24/fantasy-idp-monday-morning-cornerback/

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/08/19/idp-d/

PFF also gives a sterling recommendation of him in this Q&A: http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/08/17/ask-and-ye-shall-receive/

Appreciate the links.

Thought I've heard of PFF being good before. But Fat Boy wasn't in the Pro Bowl last year, and the positive little things I and others saw him do, are the kind of things an NT does in the 3-4. Push the pocket in and eat double-teams regularly. You know, what Fat Boy was adamantly opposed to.

a few more games like tonite and the bandwagon will fill up quick.

LOL. But if he's practicing like he should, and doing what Shanny says (finally), how can you still support him? C'mon man! He's betraying the stands you've been defending him on!

[Stadium-Armory]

I missed the game last night, how'd Bert play? I heard he was with the first teamers.

[Going Commando]

Haynesworth looked amazing last night. Golston is trash compared to him on the DE spot

Well that's not entirely fair. Clearly Golston isn't the same caliber player as Haynesworth but I wouldn't call him trash. He's had some nice games over the years where he outplayed Cornelius Griffin when Griffin was still knocking heads. Golston is a solid rotational player and he's got value in that role.

[brianm23]

LOL the morons who gave a hundred million to a guy known as a huge talent with a ten cent head may shoulder some of the blame for that. would YOU turn down a huge payday? even if you KNEW it was gonna mean expectations that you could not possibly live up to? lmao.

You know, I think Ryman is as loony as they come with his whack ass logic, but he's 100% correct on this. The fact of the matter is, the Redskins signed this guy KNOWING he was a headcase.

(as noted by smith and him telling the team "BUYER BEWARE"

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=330406

There were many many articles about Haynesworth's attitude and laziness dating back to when he was at Tennessee. His attitude at Tennessee is pretty much why he dropped as far as he did that year or he most likely would have been a top 5 pick.

For the Skins to say they did their due diligence before they signed him is laughable and a spit in the face to the fans. The fact of the matter is, Danny wanted the hottest new toy on the market, and personally told Vinny to get it done. So ignoring all the red flags, Vinny did exactly what his boss told him to do, and now we are paying for that stupidity. AH was never going to live up to the expectations that come with a 100 million dollar contract. NEVER. Much like Antwaan Randle El wasn't ever going to live up to his high dollar contract. I blame the Redskins ultimately for the messes they made.

That said, AH is 100% wrong in the situation regardless if our owner is a nitwit and signed him for too much money. Expectations aside, he still has a obligation to the team contractually to do what the coaches ask of him.

[Ryman of the North]

Lmao.

Steve- dont bother, most of the anti AH people will never admit that he was actually very good for us last year or that he is in fact our best defencive player skill and talentwise by far.

Brianm- my wackass logic is actually called LOGIC. and most of the time I am absolutely correct when I post, I dont like arguing unless I am right. and when not being messed with AH is showing that he will in fact come as close to justifying that ridiculous contract as anyone can.

Rev up the bandwagon because most of these asshats will be on board if AH keeps canning everyone all season long.

[skinsfan4128]

Lmao.

Steve- dont bother, most of the anti AH people will never admit that he was actually very good for us last year or that he is in fact our best defencive player skill and talentwise by far.

Brianm- my wackass logic is actually called LOGIC. and most of the time I am absolutely correct when I post, I dont like arguing unless I am right. and when not being messed with AH is showing that he will in fact come as close to justifying that ridiculous contract as anyone can.

Rev up the bandwagon because most of these asshats will be on board if AH keeps canning everyone all season long.

:hysterical: Your logic is flawed. While you and a couple of other posters are AH apologists, the majority of the posters are arguing against your supposed LOGIC. Yet, we are the asshats?!? :insane: And, honestly, I see you are more conceited than convinced. I, for one, will not be on your proverbial "bandwagon" that you are now spewing. Furthermore, you have been shot down time and time again for not backing up your statements. Again, you resort to saying you can read and comprehend what you read, as if the rest of us came tumbling out of the short bus yesterday. To further my point, you continuously put down on any and all posters who refuse to side with you. Yet, you claim you are the one being attacked? :no:

Face it Ryman, AH is the asshat. Problem is, AH has had a :idea: that he can't beat Shanny, so he'll have to actually live up to the contract he signed. To be honest, Ryman, I have read numerous posts you have written. And I have concluded that your arguments are more directed at Shanny and the 3-4 than it is defending AH. You basically use AH to support your true agenda: your hatred towards Shanny and the conversion to the 3-4. Why don't you give it a rest and just start posting about your true intentions? Sounds like you would do better there.

[brianm23]

he was actually very good for us last year or that he is in fact our best defencive player skill and talentwise by far.

Brianm- my wackass logic is actually called LOGIC. and most of the time I am absolutely correct when I post, I dont like arguing unless I am right. and when not being messed with AH is showing that he will in fact come as close to justifying that ridiculous contract as anyone can.

No. No you're not. Your logic is generally flawed as hell and you offer absolutely zero proof to your claims.

I wouldn't say he was "very good" last year, and having "potential" doesn't make you the best player. Orakpo was our best defensive player last year by far.