So is James O'Keefe (the ACORN pimp) still a right wing hero?

[Larry]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/22/voter.fraud/

ACORN worker admits to stealing from ACORN. Specifically states, in the article, that he came up with the idea, on his own, because he wanted the money.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2008-10-10/news/acorn10_1_acorn-voter-fraud-voter-registration-forms

Lists two events:

1) Las Vegas.

Here's what happened in Las Vegas.

ACORN sends workers out to sign up voters.

Workers come back, hand in sheets, get paid.

ACORN notices numerous registrations filled out with obviously false information. (The article mentions the Dallas Cowboys OL. I recall Mickey Mouse being registered like 100 times, too.)

ACORN is prohibited by law from tossing the fake registrations in the trash.

ACORN goes to the Supervisor of Elections. Turns in real registrations, and, separately, the stack of fake registrations. ACORN explains that these forms are obviously fake, but we're required by law to turn them into you folks, anyway. ACORN also gives the election officials the name and address of the worker who turned in the fake registrations.

Two days later, the County Sheriff calles a news conference to loudly announce that he has uncovered information of massive voter fraud committed by ACORN.

Two days after that, Sheriff calls another news conference, to announce that he is serving a search warrant on ACORN, demanding the names and addresses of ACORN workers, as part of his efforts to gather the name and address of the criminals who committed this fraud. (Sheriff does not mention that ACORN voluntarily handed over the name and address of the person

who defrauded ACORN

, days ago.)

2) A woman in Florida claims that she received a voter identification card with incorrect information on it.

The article also mentions:

The complaint did not make clear whether she had any contact with ACORN.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/08/voter-fraud-task-force-raids-nevada-office-backing/

A Washington Times article about the Nevada Sheriff's "voter fraud task force" conducting a "raid" to gather information which ACORN had voluntarily handed over days earlier.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2009/09/09/1224631/11-accused-of-faking-voter-registration.html

Another group of workers committing fraud against ACORN

This case, also, originated when ACORN contacted law enforcement.

From the article:

Miami-Dade State Attorney Katherine Fernández Rundle praised ACORN.

``We've been very aggressive about a lot of these cases,'' she said. ``But we would not have known about these workers unless ACORN brought it to us.

``It's really minor, ineffectual attempts to justify getting paid an hourly basis. It could not have impacted the voting process whatsoever. Nonetheless, we cannot turn a blind eye to this,'' Rundle added.

ACORN quality control workers found the discrepancies in the cards turned in by 10 canvassers and contacted authorities in June 2008, authorities said. The group turned in 1,400 cards, of which 888 were found to be fraudulent.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/08/acorn-registration-workers-charged-felony-voter-fraud/

Yet another worker stealing from ACORN:

Miles and Clancy worked for the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now and are accused of submitting multiple voter registration applications for the same individuals, including each other, to meet voter registration quotas imposed by the community organizing group.

It's interesting that the investigations aren't just on a single rogue branch of ACORN. They are all over the country indicating these are the standard practices of the organization as a whole.

It's interesting that not one of these in any way even implies that the organization has done any thing wrong.

Rather, in every single case, ACORN is the only victim.

[Duckus]

Anytime someone, at any point in a conversation, mentions bringing in underage girls to whore them out authorities should be notified.

This sums up the thread nicely.

[Larry]

you are a hack!

Guess that means that you didn't read the links, and don't care about the facts?

[Larry]

Another "Eye of the Beholder thread".

O'Keefe is still a "hero" to the right.

ACORN are still heroes to the left.

IMO.

O'Keefe used to be a hero. Now, the right wants distance.

ACORN never was a hero. They simply aren't Spawn of Satan.

[Bliz]

Amazing how few people in this thread have actually said anything about O'Keefe.

The fact is, when he took down ACORN, he was a "hero" of sorts to Republicans. The reaction of the right wing media and numerous congressmen makes that difficult to argue, unless you're solely focused on the semantics of "hero"

Then his 15 minutes were up, so he cooked up a hare-brained scheme that easily could have gotten him charged with a felony. That made him a bit radioactive. As I recall, many of his former supporters, including Beck, came out against what he did and affirmed the obvious - there have to be limits to what you do. You can't break the law just to prove a political point. He lost a lot of his speaking engagements as a result of that one. He spent all his political capital just to not be charged with a felony

The fact that he called himself an "investigative journalist", and that some of the talking heads agreed, is laughable. He was basically doing Punk'd with a political agenda, trying to catch people on hidden cameras. A real investigative journalist would gather the facts, then confront the subject with them and see what the explanation was.

So, short answer, no. This is a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately world, and he hasn't done anything to bring himself back into the spotlight. Are they still glad he gave them the means to get rid of ACORN? Absolutely. But a "hero" at this point? Not even close

[Predicto]

Guess that means that you didn't read the links, and don't care about the facts?

heh. Larry got confused.

mcsluggo was making a funny. Read his post, right before mine.

[Baculus]

Are folks actually trying to deny that O'Keefe was is a right-wing hero? Seriously? That's like when John McCain denied ever being a "maverick," which is out of touch and a strange case of amnesia.

Why do we think ACORN has become the newest right-wing bogeyman?

I mean, really -- go to biggovernment.com, where they praised O'Keefe to high heavens, and still do. With this attempt to gain access to the Senator's office, the crowd over at that site believed O'Keefe was going to produce some new, ground-breaking story on "the corrupt Democratic machine," when, in fact, O'Keefe and his sidekicks had nothing. But the right-wing was frothing at the mouth over this. They wanted to see something, no matter the legalities of O'Keefe's actions.

These men suddenly become heroes to the Right, because they "stuck it" to the "liberals" and "lefties." "Law and order" Republicans sure swing, like a pendulum.

As far as ACORN are concerned, some folks defended them because they have done actual good work and have provided assistance of all sorts to the needy, the disenfranchised, and the poor. That doesn't excuse away any of their problems, but I believe the organization has too often been unfairly characterized due to their issues.

ACORN represents many different organizations on a local level. "Community organizing," though, has become the new red-baiting means to the Right, so the O'Keefe tape, combined with malfeasance at the ACORN top management, was like pie-in-the-sky heaven for opponents of the organization.

"We got them!" they crowed.

Sadly, though, when companies such as KBR were ripping off tax dollars for great sums of money, and when the company was exploiting and bullying employees, including one that was gang raped by fellow KBR employees (Michelle Malkin suggested that the woman fabricated the entire incident), the Right had nothing but praise and raised defenses for that company. KBR has even been tied to prostitution in Iraq -- the same issue that was supposedly highlighted in the O'Keefe video -- but that doesn't seem to matter.

ACORN = $50 million over ten years. "They are ripping us off!"

KBR = Tens, possibly hundreds of millions overcharged to the government. "They are a patriotic company!"

Now, my criticism is not to excuse away ACORN's problems, but it was a bit ridiculousness to see the Right attacking ACORN as if there is no equivalency, and ignoring many other cases out of outright corruption and profiteering.

Also, the ACORN falsified registrations are continually brought up, as if Obama only won the election because of bad voter registration. As if a company in California, working for the GOP, also didn't have thousands of phony voter registrations.

Oh wait -- that darn equivalency again! ACORN!

[Thiebear]

****Edited Quote****

ACORN used to be a hero. Now, the left wants distance. Okeefe never was a hero. He simply wasn't the Spawn of Satan.

It works by just changing whose / who when making general statements that don't actually mean anything.

[Burgold]

Except who considered ACORN a hero? I've heard of people calling the Red Cross' efforts heroic. Did you ever hear anyone, esp. prior to O'Keefe praise ACORN as a heroic institution?

O'Keefe was lionized. He was hailed. He was celebrated. Now, it turns out that much of the work that he was given the hero treatment about was fraudulent and that following this he broke the law in trying to repeat his transgressions.

[JimboDaMan]

It works by just changing whose / who when making general statements that don't actually mean anything.

Actually, it does not. Simply saying something does not make it so.

Try finding more than 1% of the population who even heard of ACORN before the Republicans began their slander campaign. On the flip side, O'Keefe was not Rush Limbaugh, but he certainly got huge positive publicity in conservative circles for his exploits. Certainly at that time conservatives didn't know he was a fraud. Now that this is known, right wingers have distanced themselves from the man but still embrace his activities as gospel truth.

In fact I don't know why we're having this discussion. Right wing minds are closed as usual. They say authorities need to be alerted when underage girls are involved, its shown that ACORN alerted the authorities, the right places that on ignore. They post a list of right-wing talking points of ACORN atrocities, its shown that none of these incidents involve ACORN misbehavior, place on ignore. And on and on.

Its like the teacher in the Charlie Brown cartoons. From Larry's post, this is what right wingers hear:

"Whah whah whah ACORN whah whah false information whah whah ACORN whah whah fake registrations whah whah whah massive voter fraud committed by ACORN"

[zoony]

Is it fair to call Michael Moore a left wing hero, given the criteria presented in this thread?

[Burgundy Burner]

Is it fair to call Michael Moore a left wing hero, given the criteria presented in this thread?

that's up to the left. but keep in mind that he has done nothing illegal.

[Larry]

It works by just changing whose / who when making general statements that don't actually mean anything.

Meaning "I can change what you wrote, into a complete lie, and people on the delusional Right will believe it".

[Larry]

Is it fair to call Michael Moore a left wing hero, given the criteria presented in this thread?

I could see that argument. IMO, a fair comparison.

[Destino]

that's up to the left. but keep in mind that he has done nothing illegal.

After Bowling for Columbine he absolutely reached hero status. I certainly won't pretend the left I immune to falling in love with people that tell them what they want to hear.

[Wrong Direction]

FWIW, I think he was a hero at first, before anyone knew that he misled. I also think that the real issue with ACORN has been totally ignored in this thread and with the media in general. The issue is...

ACORN received a ton of public money basically to register Democrats. Their biggest impropriety was that they used public funds predominantly to target people who helped one side of the aisle. It was a racket, funded by Democrats to help elect Democrats.

[Burgold]

Is it fair to call Michael Moore a left wing hero, given the criteria presented in this thread?

I think this is a fair complaint/comment. He certainly was a champion to part of the dem/liberal wing after Bowling and Farenheit. He also is guilty of heavily editing and reworking his documentaries not present the evidence, but to best present his point and at times tip toes right at the line of fraud if not over.

ACORN received a ton of public money basically to register Democrats. Their biggest impropriety was that they used public funds predominantly to target people who helped one side of the aisle. It was a racket, funded by Democrats to help elect Democrats.

I think this is also a fair complaint. It bothers me somewhat that if their mission was to increase voter participation (a reasonable goal for a non-profit) that it was done one-sidedly which isn't cool. I'm not sure if your statement is true. IE they would only register dems to be, but it seems from afar to be and that is bothersome to me. Non profits shouls be neutral.

Mind you, I think there are a ton of non profits who ought to lose their 501c based on that standard, esp. amongst think tanks.

[Wrong Direction]

I'm not sure if your statement is true. IE they would only register dems to be, but it seems from afar to be and that is bothersome to me.

For the record, I didn't say only, I said predominantly. It it was only, they'd have been easier to shut down w/o any videos.

[mcsluggo]

well... ACORN's mission is (was?) to register poor people as voters.

Porr people predominately vote dem.

it doesn't have to be sinsister to have the effect that you object to.

similarly, imagine an NGO that assists US military overseas in registering and obtaining and submitting absentee ballots. that would fluff up gop voter rolls disproportionately, but also wouldn't be sinsister.

[SnyderShrugged]

I've always wondered why such lengths would be put towards registering people to vote. Seriously, if folks didnt care enough to take the time out of their day to register and then to vote, why would we care for their vote to begin with?

[mcsluggo]

a fair view.

however, people that feel disenfranchised ACT disenfranchised. When people begin to feel like they have a an active stake in a community, they also ACT more that way.

[Burgold]

For the record, I didn't say only, I said predominantly. It it was only, they'd have been easier to shut down w/o any videos.

Sorry. Quick clumsy writing on my part, but what you expressed is my biggest unhappiness with ACORN as I understand it. Getting out the vote is a worthy cause. Getting everyone to vote even the guys dumb enough to disagree with me should be the goal. If ACORN consciously or un devotes the lionshare of their effort in registering people they believe will only vote Dem, then that's a disservice to their mission.

Edit: Sluggo... do they attack registration in rural areas as aggressively as urban? If so, the complaint of dem vs. conserv preference is probably less justified.

[The Evil Genius]

If I am not mistaken, ACORN originally started with going into the rural south in the 60's.

[Predicto]

Do we know that ACORN got money from the government to register voters, or are we just assuming that?

I don't know the answer, but it is my understanding that ACORN has a lot of different organizations under its umbrella that did a lot more than just register voters. :whoknows:

[Burgold]

I don't know. Good question.

It also points out a larger problem though. Some non profits like the Red Cross have grown to big and are unweildy bureacrasies that themselves don't do as much good. They've lost their nimbleness and adaptabilty. As such when a crisis occurs they wind up farming out a lot of the actual work to smaller charities.