Rivals.com: Tim Tebow not looking good in Senior Bowl practice

[darklight1216]

Tim Tebow once had an awkward practice, just to see what it felt like.

Tim Tebow lives vicariously through himself.

He once taught a German Shepherd how to bark in Spanish.

He can cure epilepsy just by walking into a room.

He's a lover not a figher, but he's also a fighter so don't get any ideas.

Tim Tebow is... the most interesting man in the world.

[Spartacus87]

So I've been in Orlando the past couple of days w/o NFLN. Heard he had a pretty rough game. Anyone care to recap (objectively)?

Here's his final stat line:

8 of 12 passing for 50 yards, two rushes for 10 yards, two fumbles (one lost), three points in five series.

His fumbles were pretty bad, one of which came off of a designed draw play where he carried it really loosely.

Passing wise he had a few good plays where he had all kinds of time, but a lot of times it seemed like he checked down very quickly (which is a lot like the reports on him during practice), or they just weren't calling a lot of intermediate to deep passing plays.

It didn't help that the North was just a better team the South, especially the North's defense versus the South's o-line.

To be honest, I don't think the game changed anyone's opinion on him. If someone thinks he has potential as a long term development, then there were a couple signs of that when Tebow had a lot of time to read the field and throw it. If someone doesn't think he can make it as a QB or will take too much time to develop, there were signs supporting that as well, with his motion, sloppy drop backs, and his fumbles.

He came out of the game essentially the same as he went into it.

[RonArtest15]

Here's his final stat line:

8 of 12 passing for 50 yards, two rushes for 10 yards, two fumbles (one lost), three points in five series.

His fumbles were pretty bad, one of which came off of a designed draw play where he carried it really loosely.

Passing wise he had a few good plays where he had all kinds of time, but a lot of times it seemed like he checked down very quickly (which is a lot like the reports on him during practice), or they just weren't calling a lot of intermediate to deep passing plays.

It didn't help that the North was just a better team the South, especially the North's defense versus the South's o-line.

To be honest, I don't think the game changed anyone's opinion on him. If someone thinks he has potential as a long term development, then there were a couple signs of that when Tebow had a lot of time to read the field and throw it. If someone doesn't think he can make it as a QB or will take too much time to develop, there were signs supporting that as well, with his motion, sloppy drop backs, and his fumbles.

He came out of the game essentially the same as he went into it.

One of his incompletions was a one-hopper to an open WR....also, even on some of his completions he was checking down (like you said), but it seemed like he was VERY late on some of his reads. He has a lot of time to work on correcting some of his flaws before the draft, but at this point if he's selected in either the 1st or 2nd round, that would be a mistake....I think Dan Lefevour leap-frogged him, and you could make the debate about Zac Robinson as well.

[Spartacus87]

One of his incompletions was a one-hopper to an open WR....also, even on some of his completions he was checking down (like you said), but it seemed like he was VERY late on some of his reads. He has a lot of time to work on correcting some of his flaws before the draft, but at this point if he's selected in either the 1st or 2nd round, that would be a mistake....I think Dan Lefevour leap-frogged him, and you could make the debate about Zac Robinson as well.

Oh, Lefevour and Robinson definitely out played him. No question.

They're better QB prospects right out the gate anyway though. The question on Tebow is his potential to develop into an NFL QB, and how high his ceiling is for that process.

Like I said, his performance in the Senior Bowl really didn't sway most people one way or the other on him. And at this point, it's probably going to stay that way through the draft, since this was the last time he'll be throwing against defenses until he's already on a team.

I still think he's a 2nd or 3rd round pick though.

[Rodriggo]

Bad in practice AND in the game.

Maybe those experts know what they're talking about.

Wish they would have warned us about Taylor Jacobs.

[boofMcboof]

Personally i think he could improve a great deal by combine and pro-day.

As a former coach (basketball) i feel like a can teach a kid how to shoot.

But i can't coach a kid to have toughness, heart, desire, hustle, work ethic etc.; and i think that's what makes Tebow attractive to coaches and former players.

The guy gets it.

The question is can you fix his throwing motion?

And i think the answer is going to be yes.

Have you ever tried to tinker with someone's shooting form who's past their teens. It's nearly impossible to get them to change their ways unless they are committed to it. Great natural shooters fine tune their shooting and make adjustments from time to time along the way.

Tim Tebow's throwing motion hasn't changed in 4 years. That tells me he hasn't tried in any meaningful way to fix his mechanics in the offseason or practice. It will take a lot or reps to deprogram that muscle memory and a coaching staff that's patient. That's a big investment for a franchise to make for just one player. Would you put your job on the line for that?

[Spartacus87]

Have you ever tried to tinker with someone's shooting form who's past their teens. It's nearly impossible to get them to change their ways in any meaningful way unless they are committed to it. Great natural shooters fine tune their shooting and make adjustments from time to time along the way.

Tim Tebow's throwing motion hasn't changed in 4 years. That tells me he hasn't tried in any meaningful way to fix his mechanics in the offseason or practice. It will take a lot or reps to deprogram that muscle memory and a coaching staff that's patient. That's a big investment for a franchise to make for just one player. Would you put your job on the line for that?

The multi-million dollar question right there. It's easy to sit on a message board and say he's an obvious 1st or 2nd round pick because of his leadership.

But if you're an NFL GM, looking over your team's needs, and it's the 2nd round with your team on the clock, you had better be damn sure that who you're picking is the right choice. And a QB that will likely take a couple years to develop, or could possibly just turn into a hybrid role player, is a risky investment.

I think there will be a few teams that grade him out as a 2nd rounder or 3rd rounder. Just a few, who have a strong idea of how they envision using him down the road and already have a stable team without a lot of immediate holes to fill. Outside of that handful of teams though, I think there's a good chance he slips down into the mid-rounds before a team takes a chance on him.

[TD Riggo]

Well, the entire Rivals article is called into question when they state that Tebow "never [took a snap] from under center." While it would be credible to state that he "took the MAJORITY of snaps from under center," the fact is that Tebow DID take some snaps in his college career from under center! So what?!

Anyone who dismisses Tebow as a future NFL'er at this point, is a fool! Will he be a Bart Starr or a Steve Young? Who knows. I WILL bet that he will be better than Tony Romo sits to pee.

[VaBeachRedskin]

Well, the entire Rivals article is called into question when they state that Tebow "never [took a snap] from under center." While it would be credible to state that he "took the MAJORITY of snaps from under center," the fact is that Tebow DID take some snaps in his college career from under center! So what?!

Anyone who dismisses Tebow as a future NFL'er at this point, is a fool! Will he be a Bart Starr or a Steve Young? Who knows. I WILL bet that he will be better than Tony Romo sits to pee.

They stated during the NFL Network broadcast that Tebow took 6 snaps under center in his senior season.

[Spartacus87]

Well, the entire Rivals article is called into question when they state that Tebow "never [took a snap] from under center." While it would be credible to state that he "took the MAJORITY of snaps from under center," the fact is that Tebow DID take some snaps in his college career from under center! So what?!

Anyone who dismisses Tebow as a future NFL'er at this point, is a fool! Will he be a Bart Starr or a Steve Young? Who knows. I WILL bet that he will be better than Tony Romo sits to pee.

Oh, I'd take that bet.

Romo sits to pee's a very good QB. He also has pretty good pocket awareness and one of the quickest releases in the NFL.

That's a fairly high bar to set for Tebow at this point.

[Gregpeck99]

The only thing Tebow proved is that there are several other QBs who will be selected ahead of him. I can name 5 or 6.

[darrelgreenie]

Have you ever tried to tinker with someone's shooting form who's past their teens. It's nearly impossible to get them to change their ways in any meaningful way unless they are committed to it. Great natural shooters fine tune their shooting and make adjustments from time to time along the way.

Me personally? No.

But there have been many great basketball players that became good shooters after they were already good basketball players.

But all in all its a bad analogy.

Tim Tebow's throwing motion hasn't changed in 4 years. That tells me he hasn't tried in any meaningful way to fix his mechanics in the offseason or practice. It will take a lot or reps to deprogram that muscle memory and a coaching staff that's patient. That's a big investment for a franchise to make for just one player. Would you put your job on the line for that?

You're right his throwing motion probably hasn't changed much, probably because he was having a lot of success.

Just so were on the same page maybe our definition of fix are different.

When i say fix i'm not talking about re-making his throwing motion to look like a textbook throwing motion. Its never gonna look like McNabbs or Matt Leinart (not talking about ability just pure throwing motion).

But can you get him to pick his elbow up and shoulder up and not drop the ball so low, can you get him to shorten his wind-up, and be more consistent in his mechanics, hasten his delivery and improve his efficiency?

Coaches from the Senior Bowl were already talking about his improvement in certain areas the short time he was there.

And with his work ethic we know he's gonna work hard to his weak spots.

But, if you have a problem with his throwing much at this stage you probably shouldn't/aren't going to draft him.

When it comes to which round i really don't know/care.

I think for Tebow's own sake he should go mid to late 2nd or 3rd round.

But, my only contention is that Tebow's 'throwing motion' isn't going to be the 'reason' why he fails or succeeds as a pro.

QB with perfect mechanics fail all the time, QBs with horrible physical skills, throwing motions, arm strength sometimes have success.

Its flat out hard to have success or predict success in the NFL as a QB.

Me personally do i think his delivery is horrible? No

Could it be better? Yes

But i think he has plenty of arm strength, i think he has enough accuracy he was effecient in the offense they ran at Florida.

I gotta go but real quick....

Other QBs have had made it in the NFL with similiar if not worse throwing

motions.(Leftwhich, Kerry Collins,Randall Cunningham)

And the whole scrutiny of the throwing motion only, imo has recently come in vogue since it was labelled as the reason for Leftwhich's struggles (which i don't agree with)

The bottom line for me is that can he hit what he's throwing at?

Does he have enough arm strength to make all the throws?

Then everything else comes down to intangibles which are off the charts and the right system/HC.

[ArmchairRedskin]

They stated during the NFL Network broadcast that Tebow took 6 snaps under center in his senior season.

And only threw the ball one time, right?

[RonArtest15]

Well, the entire Rivals article is called into question when they state that Tebow "never [took a snap] from under center." While it would be credible to state that he "took the MAJORITY of snaps from under center," the fact is that Tebow DID take some snaps in his college career from under center! So what?!

Anyone who dismisses Tebow as a future NFL'er at this point, is a fool! Will he be a Bart Starr or a Steve Young? Who knows. I WILL bet that he will be better than Tony Romo sits to pee.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL.....probably the most asinine thing I've read on ES in 2010.

[[[ghost]]]

The only thing Tebow proved is that there are several other QBs who will be selected ahead of him. I can name 5 or 6.

There's a difference between QBs who are better than him, and QBs who will be selected before him.

Someone will take a chance on him far too early. He might go in the 2nd or 3rd entirely because of his potential, without any regard to how ineffective he'll be immediately.

Pat White wasn't a 2nd round QB. But since the team that drafted him felt that they could use his rare abilities for a certain purpose, he was taken that high.

[Hooper]

Barring the Jags taking him for PR reasons, I would be surprised if anyone takes Tebow in the first three rounds.

He's a great college player who was on a team absolutely loaded with talent every year in a system that was tailor-made for his skills.

But in the NFL, he wouldn't be on a team with a huge talent advantage. He tried to run in the senior bowl and the defense basically laughed at him.

As a QB, he would be a huge project. His stock plummeted once scouts got a good look at him in the senior bowl practices -- he simply doesn't throw accurately and takes forever to get rid of the ball.

As far as playing another position... well, what position? He's not particularly fast -- heck, he might even be on the slow side for a NFL tight end. Fullback maybe?

I think you're looking at a second day pick... and maybe a much later one than people think.

[MartinC]

Barring the Jags taking him for PR reasons, I would be surprised if anyone takes Tebow in the first three rounds.

He's a great college player who was on a team absolutely loaded with talent every year in a system that was tailor-made for his skills.

But in the NFL, he wouldn't be on a team with a huge talent advantage. He tried to run in the senior bowl and the defense basically laughed at him.

As a QB, he would be a huge project. His stock plummeted once scouts got a good look at him in the senior bowl practices -- he simply doesn't throw accurately and takes forever to get rid of the ball.

As far as playing another position... well, what position? He's not particularly fast -- heck, he might even be on the slow side for a NFL tight end.

I think this about nails it. Sums up my view on Tebow exactly. I wish him well as he seems like a great human being but I would be surprised if he makes it at any position in the NFL.

[Spartacus87]

Barring the Jags taking him for PR reasons, I would be surprised if anyone takes Tebow in the first three rounds.

He's a great college player who was on a team absolutely loaded with talent every year in a system that was tailor-made for his skills.

But in the NFL, he wouldn't be on a team with a huge talent advantage. He tried to run in the senior bowl and the defense basically laughed at him.

As a QB, he would be a huge project. His stock plummeted once scouts got a good look at him in the senior bowl practices -- he simply doesn't throw accurately and takes forever to get rid of the ball.

As far as playing another position... well, what position? He's not particularly fast -- heck, he might even be on the slow side for a NFL tight end. Fullback maybe?

I think you're looking at a second day pick... and maybe a much later one than people think.

I agree with this, mostly.

I might have said it in this thread or another one, but I think there will be a handful of teams that can afford to draft him in the 2nd or 3rd round, but outside of that, most teams will grade him as a mid-round pick. And if that small handful of teams decides to address a more pressing need once they're on the clock, I could see him slipping pretty far into the 5th round or so.

It's sort of like how some people are saying that Bradford could grade out very high for us, especially with inside knowledge on his shoulder from Dr. Andrews, but if we pass on him at #4 that could make other teams wary of drafting him too early and his stock could fall.

I think Tebow will fit a very certain vision and developmental role for a few organizations, and that will be his only shot at getting drafted that early.

Although with the new draft format, with the 1st round on Thursday, the 2nd round and 3rd round on Friday, and the rest of the draft on Saturday, what was once a 2nd day pick could now be considered a 3rd day pick. I wonder if the NFL will invite him to New York for the draft.

[darrelgreenie]

Barring the Jags taking him for PR reasons, I would be surprised if anyone takes Tebow in the first three rounds

Although i agree that Tebow shouldn't go that high i won't be surprised if he does. Mayock has Tebow as his 4th QB and Kiper dispite having serious questions about Tebow's ability to play QB in the NFL still has him going by the second round and even mentioned late 1st.

He's a great college player who was on a team absolutely loaded with talent every year in a system that was tailor-made for his skills.

This same argument can be made towards most top level college QBs including the gem of most Redskins fan's eye's: Sam Bradford. The same knock can be made for the 2 QBs i like the most Colt McCoy and Jarrett Brown.

But in the NFL, he wouldn't be on a team with a huge talent advantage. He tried to run in the senior bowl and the defense basically laughed at him.

Although the comparisons to Vince Young have been made, i don't think anyone expects Tebow to be able to run like Vince Young.

As a QB, he would be a huge project. His stock plummeted once scouts got a good look at him in the senior bowl practices -- he simply doesn't throw accurately and takes forever to get rid of the ball.

As far as i know the only person who claims that Tebow's stock was hurt by the Senior Bowl was Todd McShay.

And i didn't hear Tebows accuracy as a question mark during the Senior Bowl practices and a watched all that were televised and his game accuracy didn't express a lack of accuracy even with 2 drops.

Yes, Tebow does drop the ball low in his wind-up.

I think you're looking at a second day pick... and maybe a much later one than people think.

I see him going in the second; hopefully he go later to a team that wants to develop him.

[zoony]

I think Tebow would be a great pickup for someone like the Patriots- where he can learn the position for the next 3 years and then step in. Plus, Bellicheck won't be afraid to use him in the wishbone if he has to

I could really see him developing into a tight end, though. One thing I definitely do not see is any team drafting him to fill a need at QB next season. God help the team that does.

And I will say this- I just would never be in the habit of betting against Tim Tebow. Love him or not, he is a legendary competitor and his work ethic and drive is legendary. You kind of get the feeling he can accomplish anything he sets his mind to.

Should be fun to watch.

.....