Rivals.com: Tim Tebow not looking good in Senior Bowl practice

[Chopper Dave]

I think most organizations expect their 1-3 round picks to be either immediate starters or in the rotation right away. Fourth rounders could fall into this category but thats where you start to get developmental players with expectations of playing a significant role in the near future.

So i would say that the earliest Tebow goes is the fourth, UNLESS a team wants to utilize him sooner than later for which I say the third. But I digress, I think fourth is the earliest he goes.

You're making an inaccurate, ill-informed prediction based on completely arbitrary logic. That would by like me saying, "well, I don't think Bradford is worth a 1st rounder, he's not going in the first round." Even though I don't think he's worth it, and even though I definitely don't want him at #4, I don't make the decisions. He probably won't even make it to us at #4.

However you feel about Tebow, SOMEBODY will take him in the 2nd or early 3rd, at the very least, barring a complete meltdown. Let's put aside any value he might have as a passer, since it's up for so much debate. The guy holds the career rushing touchdown record for the SEC. I think most teams would probably value him enough as a runner to take him as high as the 2nd round, let alone when you take into account his value as a runner, passer, and leader.

[Spartacus87]

However you feel about Tebow, SOMEBODY will take him in the 2nd or early 3rd, at the very least, barring a complete meltdown. Let's put aside any value he might have as a passer, since it's up for so much debate. The guy holds the career rushing touchdown record for the SEC. I think most teams would probably value him enough as a runner to take him as high as the 2nd round, let alone when you take into account his value as a runner, passer, and leader.

This.

Somebody will pull the trigger on the guy by the 2nd round. Maybe the 3rd. But after he puts up impressive numbers at the combine, and after people take into his rushing TD record and his interviews and all of that, he'll have too much athletic potential to just leave on the board. The Redskins aren't really in a position to take him because we have a ton of other, more pressing needs. But someone who isn't committed to making him into a QB will draft him so they can mold him into a special role player in their offense that can offer multiple things depending on the package. I think the key will be getting over this idea that he'll be a QB though.

I don't fully agree with this guy's take on how far Tebow will drop if he's evaluated strictly as a QB, but he makes more interesting points on how far behind Tebow really is in his development as a passer.

http://draftguys.com/index.php/articles/1/2010_senior_bowl_practice_reports_-_day_2_waldman/

Tim Tebow (Florida): The Florida quarterback struggled in this practice, and according to observers of the South team’s Monday session, Tebow’s performance was actually an improvement from yesterday. There were several flaws on display with Tebow’s game. His slow, elongated release is well known, and his throwing motion in these practices has not changed at all. His footwork on drops from center was equally deliberate, and because he rarely incorporates drops from center when in Urban Meyer’s spread offense, his feet were not in synch with his arm. This resulted in several late and underthrown passes. Then there were the multiple muffed center-quarterback exchanges in the 11-on-11 drills. Granted, all of these techniques can be fixed with time.

However, the question teams will need to ask themselves is how early do they want to invest in a player where they need to overhaul his technique to become a productive quarterback? The media might characterize players like Reggie Bush, Percy Harvin, and Dexter McCluster as “players without a position,” but I think a more accurate description for these players is “players with multiple positions.” On the other hand, Tebow is truly a player without a position. He is not fast enough to be a linebacker or safety. His hands are a question mark, and he’ll need to bulk up to be a tight end on the line of scrimmage since he lacks the speed to be a move-TE. All of these positions will require a two or three-year learning curve.

As a personnel guy, I would not want to recommend to my organization that they draft a player who has two or three years of development before he can make an impact in a starting lineup and at positions that will not yield the same return on investment that comes from a project-made-good at quarterback.

The things I mentioned thus far about Tebow’s performance are fixable. However, there is more about Tebow’s game that will require long-term work for him to develop into a pro passer. One of these issues is his ability to throw the ball to his right. Only once in the 11-on-11 drills did Tebow throw a ball to his right, and it was a short flat route to Citadel WR Andre Roberts. Tebow repeatedly missed or ignored open receivers on his right, including his Florida teammate Riley Cooper getting excellent separation on a deep streak early in the route.

To nail the point home with this example, Tebow didn’t even get rid of the ball quickly on this play, and there was no pressure in the pocket. Tebow should have spotted Cooper easily. He waited until another receiver got open on the left sideline, delivered the ball late and slow, and the receiver made an impressive one-handed grab off the defender who tipped the ball as he undercut the late throw. Tebow not only didn’t see players coming open to the right side of the field, but he is also too self-conscious about his skill to throw to the right side of the field.

Even more often than Oregon State QB Sean Canfield on Monday, Tebow chose to run the ball on 11-on-11 drills when he could not make a throw to a receiver on the left side of the field. It was clear he held onto the ball because either his receivers were covered, or he didn’t feel comfortable attempting a downfield pass in the middle of the secondary.

Tim Tebow is a tough, smart, and physical player with a good work ethic and seemingly excellent character. Cecil calls him the NFL’s future version of A.C. Green. However his flaws as a quarterback are both mechanical and conceptual. Some people believe his leadership skills will elevate his game beyond his flaws and be the difference that will make him a success in the NFL. Those people don’t understand that proficiency is a building block of leadership. As a quarterback, Tebow is, at best, years away from being proficient. If I were to answer the question teams will have to ask in their draft room, I would grade Tim Tebow a priority free agent, at best.

[NewRegime]

You're making an inaccurate, ill-informed prediction based on completely arbitrary logic. That would by like me saying, "well, I don't think Bradford is worth a 1st rounder, he's not going in the first round." Even though I don't think he's worth it, and even though I definitely don't want him at #4, I don't make the decisions. He probably won't even make it to us at #4.

However you feel about Tebow, SOMEBODY will take him in the 2nd or early 3rd, at the very least, barring a complete meltdown. Let's put aside any value he might have as a passer, since it's up for so much debate. The guy holds the career rushing touchdown record for the SEC. I think most teams would probably value him enough as a runner to take him as high as the 2nd round, let alone when you take into account his value as a runner, passer, and leader.

And my logic is arbitrary logic is inaccurate, ill-informed but yours, Mr. Gainesville, is not!?

My logic and hypothesis is based on what I have learned from closely watching the draft for years, on what I have read, watched, and listend to about how scouts and evaluators feel about Tebow.

Your logic about viewing him as a runner alone giving him a high second grade is COMPLETELY ILLOGICAL. If you understand anythinig about the NFL, and I'm sure you do, he is not a threat as a speed runner but a goal line runner. Thats what a fullback is for, and fullbacks don't go in the second round. Then you want to justify it because he has passing ability. Well, unless he is on the field passing, teams aren't going to grade him higher for his running ability because he has thrown a football. He is not going to be Slash where he is on the field at all times, especially being a power runner.

His leadership ability can only really be valuable IF he is on the field, not a backup.

The reality is Tebow is going to be a large question mark. If their is a team that views him as a good QB, then he could go in the second. BASED ON EVERY REPORT, he will be seen as a project. If you are trying to implement the Wild Cat, you may grade him higher than other teams. But are you really going to build your team AROUND a player that you only plan to use a few plays a game? Therefore you wouldn't want to go to high for him.

I'm not guru. I have been following the draft every year closely. Based on trends and reports, I have a strong feeling that Tebow will likely go in the fourth, possibly a low third.

[VaBeachRedskin]

You're making an inaccurate, ill-informed prediction based on completely arbitrary logic. That would by like me saying, "well, I don't think Bradford is worth a 1st rounder, he's not going in the first round." Even though I don't think he's worth it, and even though I definitely don't want him at #4, I don't make the decisions. He probably won't even make it to us at #4.

However you feel about Tebow, SOMEBODY will take him in the 2nd or early 3rd, at the very least, barring a complete meltdown. Let's put aside any value he might have as a passer, since it's up for so much debate. The guy holds the career rushing touchdown record for the SEC. I think most teams would probably value him enough as a runner to take him as high as the 2nd round, let alone when you take into account his value as a runner, passer, and leader.

As a runner he isn't close to being 2nd round worthy. Looking at the power backs in the draft where would you rate Tebow? I have him behind Dwyer, Dixon, Gerhart, Scott, and Blount. He doesn't really offer much as a passer, but he does have impeccable leadership qualities. He is a great college player, but his game just doesn't translate to the pros.

[Merlin Emrys]

For those of you speaking ill of Tebow' date=' I have but one question:

Why do you mock Jesus Christ?[/quote']

I was just thinking that Tebow should write a message under his eyes asking JC to send down basic footwork.

[Chopper Dave]

And my logic is arbitrary logic is inaccurate, ill-informed but yours, Mr. Gainesville, is not!?

My logic and hypothesis is based on what I have learned from closely watching the draft for years, on what I have read, watched, and listend to about how scouts and evaluators feel about Tebow.

Your logic about viewing him as a runner alone giving him a high second grade is COMPLETELY ILLOGICAL. If you understand anythinig about the NFL, and I'm sure you do, he is not a threat as a speed runner but a goal line runner. Thats what a fullback is for, and fullbacks don't go in the second round. Then you want to justify it because he has passing ability. Well, unless he is on the field passing, teams aren't going to grade him higher for his running ability because he has thrown a football. He is not going to be Slash where he is on the field at all times, especially being a power runner.

His leadership ability can only really be valuable IF he is on the field, not a backup.

The reality is Tebow is going to be a large question mark. If their is a team that views him as a good QB, then he could go in the second. BASED ON EVERY REPORT, he will be seen as a project. If you are trying to implement the Wild Cat, you may grade him higher than other teams. But are you really going to build your team AROUND a player that you only plan to use a few plays a game? Therefore you wouldn't want to go to high for him.

I'm not guru. I have been following the draft every year closely. Based on trends and reports, I have a strong feeling that Tebow will likely go in the fourth, possibly a low third.

I'll ignore the grammatical incoherence of your first sentence for now and address what I think you mean.

Your logic is, well, illogical, because you're going on a couple of false premises. First is the notion that a player in rounds 1-3 is considered someone who must start from the get go. What about, I dunno, anyone taken ever in rounds 1-3 that didn't immediately start???? Pat White comes instantly to mind just because I live in South Florida, but honestly, there are SO many guys like that, it very well may be easier to make a list of the guys who do fit your criteria.

Your second false premise is that because you have this illogical viewpoint, everyone else obviously subscribes to it, and therefore he won't get selected before the 4th round, if even that early. The fact of the matter is, barring a catastrophic injury or a mental breakdown or some other mitigating circumstance, like Spartacus said, SOMEONE will take him. I'm sure you'll disagree with it. Many will. Hell, if the Jags take him in round 1, I'll disagree with it.

So, to directly answer your question, yes, your logic is arbitrary logic is inaccurate, ill-informed but mine, Mr. Gainesville, is not. Or whatever the **** you were trying to say there. The point is, it doesn't matter where I went to school; your theory is laughable and inaccurate.

[Spartacus87]

As long as Al Davis is still kicking, there's always hope for guys to get drafted absurdly early.

[NewRegime]

So, to directly answer your question, yes, your logic is arbitrary logic is inaccurate, ill-informed but mine, Mr. Gainesville, is not. Or whatever the **** you were trying to say there. The point is, I doesn't matter where I went to school; your theory is laughable and inaccurate.

I won't ignore your immaturity at attacking my grammar from a message board. If you want to be taken serious, be serious. Stick to the facts.

Pat White was a better passer and more of a running threat than Tebow. His skill set better translate to the NFL than Tebow.

Obviously we are going to have to disagree. I'm not sure how long you have followed the NFL, but most teams expect to use their top half of their draft picks right away in some capacity. Pat White for example was drafted by a the Dolphins who like to incorporate the Wild Cat. Like I said, they would value someone with his skill set higher than another team would. So being drafted in the middle of the second round was a little high.

I never said Tebow wouldn't get drafted. I wouldn't be surprised if a team would bite on him earlier because he is a "sexy" pick. My logic is based on ACTUAL past drafts, trends, and professional analysis from different media outlets. So when you are questioning my logic, you are really questioning the logic of others. I'm not claiming to know all. I am basing my prediction on whats out there. Therefore its neither arbitrary or ill-informed. I am hoping you understand what both of those terms mean (i'm being serious).

Your logic on the other hand is ABSOLUTELY ill-logical. You are placing a high value on Tebow being a power runner. Power runners don't go high, especially if they were QBs in college. Then you justify it with him having passing ability. Well, he isn't doing both on the field. And the skill-set that Tebow has at either is not good enough at being a duel-threat to draft that high.

I guess we will see draft day.

BTW: I never said they all had to START from the get-go as you put it, but rather at least be in the rotation. Please take the time to read and respond more accurately.

[Chopper Dave]

I won't ignore your immaturity at attacking my grammar from a message board. If you want to be taken serious, be serious. Stick to the facts.

Pat White was a better passer and more of a running threat than Tebow. His skill set better translate to the NFL than Tebow.

Obviously we are going to have to disagree. I'm not sure how long you have followed the NFL, but most teams expect to use their top half of their draft picks right away in some capacity. Pat White for example was drafted by a the Dolphins who like to incorporate the Wild Cat. Like I said, they would value someone with his skill set higher than another team would. So being drafted in the middle of the second round was a little high.

I never said Tebow wouldn't get drafted. I wouldn't be surprised if a team would bite on him earlier because he is a "sexy" pick. My logic is based on ACTUAL past drafts, trends, and professional analysis from different media outlets. So when you are questioning my logic, you are really questioning the logic of others. I'm not claiming to know all. I am basing my prediction on whats out there. Therefore its neither arbitrary or ill-informed. I am hoping you understand what both of those terms mean (i'm being serious).

Your logic on the other hand is ABSOLUTELY ill-logical. You are placing a high value on Tebow being a power runner. Power runners don't go high, especially if they were QBs in college. Then you justify it with him having passing ability. Well, he isn't doing both on the field. And the skill-set that Tebow has at either is not good enough at being a duel-threat to draft that high.

I guess we will see draft day.

I actually find it's best to have a healthy mix of seriousness and levity, if you don't mind, and your crazy ass grammatical structure provided a pretty easy target. Sorry.

We can argue back and forth over who is illogical, or we can look at facts. Everyone who is a credible draft prognosticator projects him going before the fourth round. I don't care what your personal opinion of his chances are, and I don't really care if you feel the same way about my opinion; it's irrelevant to the point, because you don't run an NFL team, and even if you did, as all the really, really cheesy promotions for the Senior Bowl have Tebow saying, he only needs to impress one team, so even if 32 (or 30 or whatever, since some teams have other team's picks) teams pass on him in the first, and 32 in the second, and 31 in the first, he'll still go before the 4th. I wouldn't be surprised if he went in the first, though I believe the 2nd is probably where he'll go.

I should clarify what I meant before, also; you're right that as a running back he wouldn't get a 2nd round grade. I misspoke (mistyped? ****ed up, anyway). I meant as an athlete he would get a 2nd round grade, probably. Even if you're incredulous of that statement, add in everything else to his athleticism, and he probably gets a second round grade. And, again, even if you disagree with that, it doesn't matter; most people don't, and some of those people work for NFL teams.

And I did read that, I just chose to ignore it, because it came out in the wash. If he's strictly a QB, he's at a position where there's little rotation, unless you count the Wildcat, in which case, I'm pretty sure he'd get consideration for the rotation. Also, if they use him all over the field, which they would be smart to do, he would be in a rotation. So yeah, I caught that, I just figured I'd spare myself from having to address something so obvious. Guess not.

[Chopper Dave]

As long as Al Davis is still kicking, there's always hope for guys to get drafted absurdly early.

Luckily for Timmy he's still committed to Fathead Russell.

[mithong1]

i dont understand why people keep talking about tebow's leadership skills

how the hell are you gonna be a leader if you suck?

[Spartacus87]

Luckily for Timmy he's still committed to Fathead Russell.

True, until he sees Tebow's combine workout numbers and someone tells him that Tebow won a Heisman playing in the SEC.

As an FSU guy I would probably spend much of that draft day laughing over the fact that out of all places, Tebow ended up in the Black Hole. But in the long term I'd feel bad for the guy, as not only would that be the worst situation for Tebow to find a spot on an NFL offense, it's just a crappy place for almost every NFL player. I think New England could be a really interesting fit for him. And Belichick and Meyer are very close friends.

[Chopper Dave]

True, until he sees Tebow's combine workout numbers and someone tells him that Tebow won a Heisman playing in the SEC.

As an FSU guy I would probably spend much of that draft day laughing over the fact that out of all places, Tebow ended up in the Black Hole. But in the long term I'd feel bad for the guy, as not only would that be the worst situation for Tebow to find a spot on an NFL offense, it's just a crappy place for almost every NFL player. I think New England could be a really interesting fit for him. And Belichick and Meyer are very close friends.

Yeah, the more I think about the New England fit, the better it seems. Brady is on the wrong side of 30, and you would certainly have alot of Montana/Young parallels going on.

I really wouldn't wish Oakland on anyone. If anybody can class the joint up, it's Tebow, but it's a talent pit. McFadden was legit before he went there. Russell has always been a lazy fatass with a strong arm, but alot of promising careers have been stillborn there. At least he'd be reunited with Murphy.

[modazfuk]

Luckily for Timmy he's still committed to Fathead Russell.

Jamarcus has already been paid nearly $40M. We would all be still committed to him if it were our money:D

[Chopper Dave]

Jamarcus has already been paid nearly $40M. We would all be still committed to him if it were our money:D

This is true, but I'm pretty sure Russell hit a playing-time incentive in his contract that converted the $40M to Hostess cupcakes and lard.

[VaBeachRedskin]

All I know is that if I am in Tebow's camp I would be telling him to only work out as a QB, because if he does fullback or tight end drills and he sucks at those as bad as he is looking in the QB drills he will really see his stock plummet.

[Spartacus87]

All I know is that if I am in Tebow's camp I would be telling him to only work out as a QB, because if he does fullback or tight end drills and he sucks at those as bad as he is looking in the QB drills he will really see his stock plummet.

I agree with this. I think he has to see this QB thing through because some team will take him in the 2nd or 3rd round (like the Patriots) so they can work him into different packages and they'll have some frame of reference to use when evaluating his passing strengths/weaknesses.

If he flips to working out with the TEs or FBs, he might just make a clown out of himself and go in the 7th round or undrafted.

And as I said before, I think he's a good guy and I'd like to see him succeed and put his money to good use like he reportedly plans to do. His best shot at getting a rookie deal worth any kind of substantial cash is this QB experiment, since it's what's keep any teams remotely interested in him.

Not looking like a very good experiment so far though, as he had another rough practice today:

@jxguerra one of Tebow's throws was caught out of bounds about 1 hour ago from twidroid in reply to jxguerra

Dexter McCluster, not Tebow, just took a snap out of the Wildcat about 1 hour ago from twidroid

South team finishing practice with 11 on 11 full contact drills. Tebow took 6 snaps, threw 2 passes and completed 0 about 1 hour ago from twidroid

Tebow fumbled again. Thats about the most exciting thing hes done today about 1 hour ago from twidroid

And that's from Benjamin Volin (GatorBenPBP on Twitter), who's a Gators beat writer for South Florida.

[Newera]

I predict the PATs taking him. He will become the PATS version of the Wildcat. And, of course, will excel.

[mi6]

Yeah, and Tebow doesn't want to play TE either. I heard he won't even do any of the TE drills at the Senior Bowl/Combine to prove he can be a successful QB only.

I don't think it's gonna work. But all it takes is one team to take a chance on him. He's the perfect example of a great college player that can't transition to the NFL game.

Remember Ken Dorsey and Steve Walsh? Great college Qbs. But, never ever amounted to much in the NFL.

Frankly, Matt Leinart was a better QB than Tim Tebow in college. Look at where he is now!

Also, I respect the guy following his faith, but he has commercialized it. And, that I don't like one bit!

[RonArtest15]

why are some of yall making it a foregone conclusion that he's going to the Pats??...for all we know, he just might not be in their plans. There's also nothing to suggest that he will even be a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round pick. By the end of the Sr. Bowl and combine, you could see 2-3 other QB's leapfrog Tebow...

[JaimeDeCurry]

why are some of yall making it a foregone conclusion that he's going to the Pats??...for all we know, he just might not be in their plans. There's also nothing to suggest that he will even be a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round pick. By the end of the Sr. Bowl and combine, you could see 2-3 other QB's leapfrog Tebow...

I'm stuck listening to New England sports radio all the time, and there's a lot of speculation from "inside sources" that some people within the Pats organization are enamored with Tebow - enough so to possibly take a flyer on him with their first round pick if they can pick up a pass rusher and maybe a corner in free agency.

[Mercuryrising]

No reputable professional scout uses terms like 'horrendous' and 'horrible' to describe a prospect.

The part about questioning his leadership style is downright laughable.

You think the college frat boy, rah- rah, pom-pom, and "let's go win this for Jesus!!!!" act will transition to the NFL?

[TysonM]

Tim Tebow = Heath Shuler.

I hope we don't make that mistake again.

[Spartacus87]

It's not a foregone conclusion he's going to the Patriots.

But let's look at a few things here:

1- Belichick is very good friends with Urban Meyer. Belichick's even spent time at UF spring practices, and Meyer's visited the Patriots training camp. It's no secret they share some football strategies and general discussion about trends in the sport, scheming, etc. That alone gives the Patriots an inside edge on what Meyer could really think about Tebow, his passing abilities, and how he thinks his game would translate at all to the pros.

2- New England is a team that could afford to take Tebow. They have the kind of resume as a front office that if they draft Tebow in say, the 3rd round, nobody will call them idiots. On top of that, they have Tom Brady holding down the starting spot at QB, as well a system that has shown the ability to develop QBs and limit their mistakes pretty well.

3- The Patriots do some strange things on offense. They don't really run the ball very well, using Welker as an extension of their rushing attack, and fullbacks and RBs as prominent receivers. It's an ideal fit for a guy like Tebow who isn't particularly good at one position, but has athletic potential at several spots around the field. Which is something the Patriots actually don't have at the moment (a power runner, lead blocker, who can occasionally pass the ball).

I really wouldn't be surprised to see Tebow land in New England. He could just as easily go to Jacksonville in the 2nd round to try and sell tickets in the heart of Gator country, or Al Davis could fall in love with him, but the Patriots makes a lot sense on multiple levels (at least right now).

[Chopper Dave]

It's not a foregone conclusion he's going to the Patriots.

But let's look at a few things here:

1- Belichick is very good friends with Urban Meyer. Belichick's even spent time at UF spring practices, and Meyer's visited the Patriots training camp. It's no secret they share some football strategies and general discussion about trends in the sport, scheming, etc. That alone gives the Patriots an inside edge on what Meyer could really think about Tebow, his passing abilities, and how he thinks his game would translate at all to the pros.

2- New England is a team that could afford to take Tebow. They have the kind of resume as a front office that if they draft Tebow in say, the 3rd round, nobody will call them idiots. On top of that, they have Tom Brady holding down the starting spot at QB, as well a system that has shown the ability to develop QBs and limit their mistakes pretty well.

3- The Patriots do some strange things on offense. They don't really run the ball very well, using Welker as an extension of their rushing attack, and fullbacks and RBs as prominent receivers. It's an ideal fit for a guy like Tebow who isn't particularly good at one position, but has athletic potential at several spots around the field. Which is something the Patriots actually don't have at the moment (a power runner, lead blocker, who can occasionally pass the ball).

I really wouldn't be surprised to see Tebow land in New England. He could just as easily go to Jacksonville in the 2nd round to try and sell tickets in the heart of Gator country, or Al Davis could fall in love with him, but the Patriots makes a lot sense on multiple levels (at least right now).

Yeah, you've sold me on New England at this point, but I'd still put them at the second-best fit behind Philly. Tebow reminds me of McNabb with a really, really slow release.