AsburySkinsFan Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 I hear a lot of debate about Global Warming, and frankly it seems to me that some think that if global warming is not real then its an excuse to continue relying on limited and dirty resources such as coal and on resources that draw us into armed conflict such as oil. So this thread is for anyone to post their reasons why we should "go green" whether or not global warming is real or even caused by man. Feel free to post your own. Here are mine My family, I want my kids to know what the earth was supposed to look like. This used to be a mountain. Clean water, for drinking, fishing and enjoyment queue the homers in 3, 2, 1..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 The resources we are using now are finite (oil, coal, etc.). The resources that green energy uses are infinite. We won't have to worry about "when we run out of energy" if we use renewable energy. And cost of energy will drop precipitously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Actually, I've been saying for decades that if "the middle east" isn't enough reason for the US to get off oil, then you're brain dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 I hear a lot of debate about Global Warming, and frankly it seems to me that some think that if global warming is not real then its an excuse to continue relying on limited and dirty resources such as coal and on resources that draw us into armed conflict such as oil. So this thread is for anyone to post their reasons why we should "go green" whether or not global warming is real or even caused by man.Feel free to post your own. Here are mine My family, I want my kids to know what the earth was supposed to look like. This used to be a mountain. Clean water, for drinking, fishing and enjoyment queue the homers in 3, 2, 1..... I think most people support a clean enviroment. But we can have a cleaner enviroment without significantly raising taxes or killing our economy. Also, green energy sources are not yet viable. I think the only viable green energy source is nuclear power and the enviromentalists don't want that. Solar? Not there yet. But it is the best option so far. Wind? Not a viable widespread option, Tidal? Yeah ok. Hydrogen? Got to have energy to create hydrogen. Thermal? Not viable for most places or people. Our best option right now would be to start requiring new homes and business you have X percentage of their power from solar energy. Transportation energy is going to be the biggest energy issue. I can't see us using a solar powered plane. Ships are going to want fuel as well, I don't see anything but the largest commercial ships going to nuclear power plants and I doubt there will be nucelar powered aircraft either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Why do you think people want to "kill our economy" just by saying they think we should invest in green energy. And the reason we don't have the capabilities of those green energies you mentioned is because 30 years ago instead of investing in their science we gave tax breaks to big oil and invested in other fossil fuels. All because those companies had the best lobbyists in Washington. Just like today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Fossil fuels are very cheap if the cost of pollution is not factored in, and it has not been so far. Obviously there is an economic downside to factoring those costs in. However, I do not think it is correct to present that downside as killing of our economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USS Redskins Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Larry nailed it on the head. Who doesnt want to put OPEC out of business? I would also add I dont think anyone is actually for pollution.. but I hope they would support reaching a reasonable goal with responsible solutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCsportsfan53 Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Bottom line, there is no viable substitue for fossil fuels right now and it's not even close. The entire history of the advancement of man kind, the entire history of technology is based on finding **** and burning it. Fossil fuels are the result of the sun and earth working together, storing energy over the course of hundreds of millions of years. You tell me where we find a way to replace that. The part about global warming and energy debates I don't understand is, wtf exactly do you expect us to do instead? Go back to horses and candles? Everything we do in life, making a cup of coffee, driving to work, hot water, heat, washing our clothes....everything that's a part of modern life requires a great deal of energy to sustain. What's the realistic, affordable, readily available alternative? Where is it? Jon Stewart made some great points on this in his interview with Al Gore a few weeks back. ://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-november-4-2009/al-gore I'm all for trying to do things cleaner and make less of an impact on the enviornment but I just feel such much of the discussion in these issues are based in la la land. We've been reaping the benefits of oil for decades and now the rest of the world is beginning to be able to as well and we want them to halt their growth and cap their emissions. It's ridiculous. Meanwhile, with 6% of the world's population we consume 30% of the energy. I really wonder sometimes what all the enviornmentalists would say if you told them to really make an impact they should switch to instant coffee and stop washing their clothes. Real results aren't as simple as buying a ****ing Prius and slapping some "look how green I am" stickers on it, it'll take real, significant sacrifice and a DRASTIC reduction in the use of energy consuming things we take for granted everyday. People aren't actually willing to do anything about it, they're only willing to talk about it, of that much, I'm completely convinced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 You know, Larry's idea about moon-launched solar collectors has always intrigued me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Jon Stewart is correct Buncha damn idiots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Just to make a few comments on the posts in this thread. There is no current replacement for ALL fossil fuels, but NOBODY is saying we have to eliminate ALL fossil fuels EVER, much less RIGHT NOW. Can we use less fossil fuels? Yes, and we can do so based on existing technology and in some cases in a manner that will save money (turn many electronic advices off at the "plug" and not at the switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Just to make a few comments on the posts in this thread. There is no current replacement for ALL fossil fuels, but NOBODY is saying we have to eliminate ALL fossil fuels EVER, much less RIGHT NOW.Can we use less fossil fuels? Yes, and we can do so based on existing technology and in some cases in a manner that will save money (turn many electronic advices off at the "plug" and not at the switch. See this is something I can agree with. I don't need the Global Warming fearmongering to agree with this. The unplug the electronics from the wall thing is interesting. I was in Germany a couple months ago and this is something that they do every night. Another thing that really stood out as well, was their lights are not as bright over there. How much could cities saved by using dimmer lights and not having half as many lights as we do now. Our light pollution is rediculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 See this is something I can agree with. I don't need the Global Warming fearmongering to agree with this. The unplug the electronics from the wall thing is interesting. I was in Germany a couple months ago and this is something that they do every night. Another thing that really stood out as well, was their lights are not as bright over there. How much could cities saved by using dimmer lights and not having half as many lights as we do now. Our light pollution is rediculous. Glad to hear we can all agree on something in regards to global warming. I also don't understand what the fear mongering is. I know some asses say we are going to die in the next 5 years, but 99% of the global warming conversation is that we pollute too much and its going to cause problems for us at some point in the future. Is that fear-mongering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Bottom line, there is no viable substitue for fossil fuels right now and it's not even close. The entire history of the advancement of man kind, the entire history of technology is based on finding **** and burning it. Fossil fuels are the result of the sun and earth working together, storing energy over the course of hundreds of millions of years. You tell me where we find a way to replace that. Fusion and solar panels in space, of course! Also Generation IV nuclear reactors. Short-term, the biggest limitation seems to be energy portability. Breakthroughs in battery technology will be a great step forward. The part about global warming and energy debates I don't understand is, wtf exactly do you expect us to do instead? Go back to horses and candles? Everything we do in life, making a cup of coffee, driving to work, hot water, heat, washing our clothes....everything that's a part of modern life requires a great deal of energy to sustain. What's the realistic, affordable, readily available alternative? Where is it? Right now the real cost of fossil fuels is hidden because dumping of CO2 in the atmosphere is free. The least we could do is try to put a price on that, and let the market work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Glad to hear we can all agree on something in regards to global warming.I also don't understand what the fear mongering is. I know some asses say we are going to die in the next 5 years, but 99% of the global warming conversation is that we pollute too much and its going to cause problems for us at some point in the future. Is that fear-mongering? No I don't believe in Global Warming. I enjoy a clean enviroment and nature. Big difference. I think that they vastly overstate the pollution problems. One reason I think is that they want to get their research grants. Making the problem see much bigger is a sure fire way to get their money. Its a cash cow right now. Another reason is there are business interests involved and there stands to be a lot of easy money to be made off world (not just US or Western) governments. Easy money with little accountability to the consumer. Then you see all the crap in the news from the Global warming folks, like Global Warming causes prostitution ! We have 5 years to save the planet! or whatever other problem they want to blame on global warming. Honestly, the global warming folks could be much more slick about it and achieve their goals with hardly anyone noticing. It just might take alittle more time. Give me small achieveable realistic goals, I am on board. Make small impacts without spending rediculous sums of money. I am with you. Have industry make achievable goals with reguards to emmissions. I support you. Lesson the amount of energy we use on a day to day basis and replace it with renewable energy sources. Let's do it. In football terms, quit going for the hail mary in the 1st quater and dink and dunk your way down the field to a score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Actually, I've been saying for decades that if "the middle east" isn't enough reason for the US to get off oil, then you're brain dead. The problem with the Middle East is that it's half a world away. We need to be slapped in the face directly to make any change. Only when we hit rock bottom will that happen. It's just human nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ax Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 As with most things, it all comes down to money. The government can't spend money right on stuff that already exists, and we want them to spend money on pies in the skies? There are plenty of private investors looking for the next generation of energy. When they find it, they will be rich beyond imagination. Never doubt that people aren't actively seeking every conceivable avenue of future energy needs. Back to the money, I remember an old Flip Wilson skit. The new preacher said to the congregation "Brothers and sisters, we need to make this church crawl!" And the congregation yelled back, "Make it crawl Rev, make it crawl!" "And after the church crawls, it needs to stand up and walk!" "Make it walk Rev, make it walk!" "And after this church walks, we got to make it run!" "Make it run Rev, makeit run!" "And to make this church run, it's gonna take money!" "Let it crawl, Rev, let it crawl." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCsportsfan53 Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Just to make a few comments on the posts in this thread. There is no current replacement for ALL fossil fuels, but NOBODY is saying we have to eliminate ALL fossil fuels EVER, much less RIGHT NOW.Can we use less fossil fuels? Yes, and we can do so based on existing technology and in some cases in a manner that will save money (turn many electronic advices off at the "plug" and not at the switch. Sure, I agree but most of the solutions out there simply involve less obvious use of fossil fuels. Look, to me, at the end of the day the fact remains that for a modern society based on technology the cost is massive enviornmental impact. No matter what we do, unless we completely re-invent the wheel and figure out how to make energy from nothing, that fact still stands. You can vary the kind of impact, you can do things to lessen it some but there's 6 billion people on this planet and more of them consume energy everyday. to me, the whole discussion is bull**** mostly based on political grandstanding and idealist trying to feel relevant and important while not having a clue in the world what they're talking about. You can't have global energy without the resultant wide scale enviornmental impact, you just can't. So call me back when you're ready for horses and candles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Sure, I agree but most of the solutions out there simply involve less obvious use of fossil fuels. Look, to me, at the end of the day the fact remains that for a modern society based on technology the cost is massive enviornmental impact. No matter what we do, unless we completely re-invent the wheel and figure out how to make energy from nothing, that fact still stands. You can vary the kind of impact, you can do things to lessen it some but there's 6 billion people on this planet and more of them consume energy everyday. to me, the whole discussion is bull**** mostly based on political grandstanding and idealist trying to feel relevant and important while not having a clue in the world what they're talking about. You can't have global energy without the resultant wide scale enviornmental impact, you just can't. So call me back when you're ready for horses and candles. Energy usage of humans may seem great in human terms... For example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_power#As_a_sustainable_energy_source Fusion power commonly proposes the use of deuterium, an isotope of hydrogen, as fuel and in many current designs also use lithium. Assuming a fusion energy output equal to the 1995 global power output of about 100 EJ/yr (= 1 x 1020 J/yr) and that this does not increase in the future, then the known current lithium reserves would last 3000 years, lithium from sea water would last 60 million years, and a more complicated fusion process using only deuterium from sea water would have fuel for 150 billion years.[9] To put this in context, 150 billion years is over ten times the currently measured age of the universe, and is close to 30 times the remaining lifespan of the sun.[10] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Actually, I've been saying for decades that if "the middle east" isn't enough reason for the US to get off oil, then you're brain dead. I've been lobbying for the Larry Solar ray of death from space for a year now. I've been all about the Solar/Wind for every house to end the "Grid" That has nothing to do with Kyoto and all the other weird crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Sure, I agree but most of the solutions out there simply involve less obvious use of fossil fuels. Look, to me, at the end of the day the fact remains that for a modern society based on technology the cost is massive enviornmental impact. No matter what we do, unless we completely re-invent the wheel and figure out how to make energy from nothing, that fact still stands. You can vary the kind of impact, you can do things to lessen it some but there's 6 billion people on this planet and more of them consume energy everyday. to me, the whole discussion is bull**** mostly based on political grandstanding and idealist trying to feel relevant and important while not having a clue in the world what they're talking about. You can't have global energy without the resultant wide scale enviornmental impact, you just can't. So call me back when you're ready for horses and candles. Great, let's minimize the impact. Let's spread it around in a diverese manner. We don't need to have NO impact. We need to lessen our impact in one specific manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 I've been all about the Solar/Wind for every house to end the "Grid" See this is the kind of thing I like, renovating our homes so that we remove them from the grid, and one big way to do that is wind turbines and now they have the vertical turbines for homes that are quieter than a laptop. The real thing that I find is that those who want to maintain the status quo say things like "Where is the silver bullet right now?!" And since there is no one thing that will at this very moment allow us to shift entirely off fossil fuels and other limited resource pollutants then they throw up their arms in a fatalistic huff. BTW, I loved the argument presented here that said, "burning stuff is as old as the caveman" woohoo now there's a strong argument, "So easy a caveman can do it." Some how I think with our minds, our technology and our since that we could do better if we REALLY wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy Burner Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Cute picture of the family. Best wishes to you and yours during this holiday season. My daughter means the world to me and I have posted pics of her in this forum - no need to do more. She is cold natured, so during the holidays, the temperature in my condo is raised a bit. Her safety is very important to me and the car she drives is not some ultra compact "green" thing that would be destroyed in most accidents. That is comforting to a father who lives three hours away. This summer, we took a ten day tour of New England and saw many beautiful sites of nature. Over the years, we have taken trips to the Rockies, Grand Canyon, the West Coast, the East Coast, the Smokies, the Gulf Coast, Florida, the Midwest, Texas, and the Heartland. In addition, we have taken trips to Canada, Europe, Mexico, South America, China, and Ghana (mission related). She has received a well rounded education from these adventures and one thing is very obvious - the United States leads the world in conservation and does more than enough in this endeavor. After visiting some areas of the world where conservation is of no importance, I am confident that there will never be any concerns that my daughter faces a future with no regards for the environment. That is another comforting thought. However, I am concerned that leaders and well-intentioned citizens will continue to push for unnecessary taxes and programs that will cost our future economies of jobs and a decent standard of living. That is not a source of comfort to any father who is hoping the best for his daughter or any other family member. Hopefully, our leaders will realize the folly of misguided priorities with regards to so called global warming and global cooling. Excessive taxes and wasteful spending on such programs only robs our children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren of a better future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 This is such an important issue, the environment. Renewable energy is such an important issue. They can be mutually exclusive and still be very important and as soon as the GW comes in to bind them together, it takes all the intellectual conversation out of it and we continue to sputter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 I am all for shifting to green energy and am a very "pro enviornment" person But as ken said, don't tax people for breathing and cows for farting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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