MartinC Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 MartinCI respectfully disagree. Yes, we had to go through painful growing pains last year and this year and we lost a lot of winnable games but the light bulb finally went on in the second half of the Atlanta game. It didn't equate to wins this year but the improvement on offense with the speed of JC's delivery to his receivers and the patchwork o-line's improvement giving JC just a little more time back there, are all positives to take into next year. I truly believe Zorn will be ready to be a real HC next year with what he's learned from his experiences last year and this year. If we draft o-linemen, CB and a FS, we could create some havoc next year. My two cents. Hail! Disagreement is allowed I might be wrong and Zorn might have done his on the job learning and be primed to start performing. I just don't see it. Its a subjective judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 passizle, cmon man. i know we dont agree on a ton, but are you seriously saying a coaches worth shouldnt be judged on his w/l record? my god dude.zorn is currently 12-17. not very good, and even worse considering over his last 20 games hes 6-14. I thought you used the won/lost record as a QB stat. Now, it's a coaching stat. The intelligent way to grade coaches is to try to determine how well they did with the hand dealt. The same is true for quarterbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 i know everyone is excited right now, but this team still needs to be blown up and i hope it does. we need a new GM, a new head coach, and personnel at many key positions. The passing game is starting to look professional for the first time in years. And you want to start over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leesburgvaskinsfan Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I'm going to the Giants game and I'm actually now excited about it. I'm very curious to know how we stack up against them. I know it means nothing for this year but it means a whole lot for next year (at least that's how I'm looking at it). If we roll against them and manage to take down the reeling Cowgirls....my how that would be a sweet ending to a bittersweet year. I don't think we have much of a chance against the Chargers, but who knows? Hail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselPwr44 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 The intelligent way to grade coaches is to try to determine how well they did with the hand dealt. The same is true for quarterbacks. The supposed GM said he gave Zorn a playoff roster. So, where does Zorn stand now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmiii Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Despite the fact the team is playing better now, IMHO Coach Zorn still looks lost on the sideline. He does not appear to be in control of his surroundings. He is still not happy about not calling plays even though the offense is working better. I think that he is just over his head. I really like Jim, but i don't think he is the man to lead us into the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 The supposed GM said he gave Zorn a playoff roster.So, where does Zorn stand now? If Thomas and Samuels had returned to full strength after offseason surgeries, and stayed healthy, it was a playoff caliber roster. I think both Zorn and Blache can be criticized fairly for coming out of the blocks slowly this season, but they have picked up their games. I don't care if Zorn stays or not, but we need to keep his scheme. The passing game looks good, better distribution of the ball than we've seen in years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd421 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 This is what I honestly think Zorn has shown he can keep a team together through a media **** storm and that is a big deal. The players EVERY ONE OF THEM believes in the guy and believes he puts them in a position to win every week. Those things are huge. I agree that when they hired Zorn they knew it would take 3 years to make this transition to the WCO and they decided to try it out, they need to let it work itself out now. To blow this whole thing up will be a total waste unless the new coaching regeim is running the same offense. At this point I would say lets keep Zorn Sherm Lewis and Campbell.....do what good teams do and DRAFT OLINE!!!! If JC can play as well as he has while being on his back the whole game I would like to see him with help...onto the players CP either needs to get his **** together or be GONE....it is complete trash that some guy we signed off the street (Ganther) can look like 1000 times the running back that Portis is....honestly if I were him I would be ashamed he has been outplayed by Betts, Rock, and Ganther... The Oline needs help big time lets make this primary in the draft and offseason...At this point I honestly think blowing the whole thing up only makes things worse...and I don't think anyone comes in here and outplays Campbell next year he shredded the big bad Saints D and put up yards against one of the best Corners in the league yesterday.....The guy is a perfect in regards to causing stuff he has shown what it means to lead a team in turmoil that is invaluable...Just my $.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leesburgvaskinsfan Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 He appears to be involved and focused on every play based on what I see on TV in the away games. When I'm at the games, I can see he's very involved and in command. Just because he's not calling the plays, and most HCs don't, doesn't mean he's not in control of his surroundings. He's very engaged during timeouts and JC always come back to him on the sidelines for advice and guidance. In fact, I see him more engaged with the ST and D. Just sayin... Hail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 The passing game is starting to look professional for the first time in years. And you want to start over? the passing game looks good for a few weeks in non pressure situations in meaningless games, and you think were on to something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I thought you used the won/lost record as a QB stat. Now, it's a coaching stat.The intelligent way to grade coaches is to try to determine how well they did with the hand dealt. The same is true for quarterbacks. coaches and QBs both go hand in hand. theyre the decision makers, on and off the field. they are the two guys that have the most control (well zorn doesnt anymore). thats why they get a W-L record. you dont keep QBs that have dreadful won loss records, and non guady numbers to boot. and you dont keep a head coach that has a poor record and absolutely no experience in the role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leesburgvaskinsfan Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 This is what I honestly thinkZorn has shown he can keep a team together through a media **** storm and that is a big deal. The players EVERY ONE OF THEM believes in the guy and believes he puts them in a position to win every week. Those things are huge. I agree that when they hired Zorn they knew it would take 3 years to make this transition to the WCO and they decided to try it out, they need to let it work itself out now. To blow this whole thing up will be a total waste unless the new coaching regeim is running the same offense. At this point I would say lets keep Zorn Sherm Lewis and Campbell.....do what good teams do and DRAFT OLINE!!!! If JC can play as well as he has while being on his back the whole game I would like to see him with help...onto the players CP either needs to get his **** together or be GONE....it is complete trash that some guy we signed off the street (Ganther) can look like 1000 times the running back that Portis is....honestly if I were him I would be ashamed he has been outplayed by Betts, Rock, and Ganther... The Oline needs help big time lets make this primary in the draft and offseason...At this point I honestly think blowing the whole thing up only makes things worse...and I don't think anyone comes in here and outplays Campbell next year he shredded the big bad Saints D and put up yards against one of the best Corners in the league yesterday.....The guy is a perfect in regards to causing stuff he has shown what it means to lead a team in turmoil that is invaluable...Just my $.02 Totally agree! Amen brother! Hail! :applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAAZ227 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 YES! The team could have turned on him earlier in the season. They stuck by him and Campbell keeps improving every week. That should say something about his coaching tactics. When JG retired, Dan said the one thing he has learned over the years with JG is, patience. Give him on more shot. Why shake something up again? I just hope danny and vinny don't do something stupid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd421 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I'd still fire Vinny....haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I think so. I think it says alot about him and the team with the way things have been going lately. After the poor start the team could've easily have packed it in for the season. After Zorn got stripped of play-calling, he could've easily packed it in. But, this team has continued to battle and play hard week-in and week-out. Zorn hasn't always made the best decisions, but I think he's earned another year. He said his offense would take 3 years and its finally starting to come around now. If things aren't better after next season, then start all over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lydon Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Does anyone think there's a possibility of demoting Zorn to Qb coach and bringing in a new HC? Or possibly stripping him of playcalling all together and making him HC/QB coach? I think Zorn is still unsure what exactly he is supposed to do as a HC and that's probably due to his lack of experience. Since they've brought in Sherm to call the plays, Zorn has spent much more time on the sideline with JC and JC's play has improved 1000 fold. Maybe JC just needed the right mentor and maybe Zorn is that guy. Just a thought on how things may go down during the offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd421 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 He appears to be involved and focused on every play based on what I see on TV in the away games. When I'm at the games, I can see he's very involved and in command. Just because he's not calling the plays, and most HCs don't, doesn't mean he's not in control of his surroundings. He's very engaged during timeouts and JC always come back to him on the sidelines for advice and guidance. In fact, I see him more engaged with the ST and D. Just sayin...Hail! Gibbs didn't call the offense while Saunders was here and the players responded to him...just sayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passizle Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 passizle, cmon man. i know we dont agree on a ton, but are you seriously saying a coaches worth shouldnt be judged on his w/l record? my god dude.zorn is currently 12-17. not very good, and even worse considering over his last 20 games hes 6-14. Well, then say what you mean. His W/L percentage is not so great. I agree to that, but its not his body of work. He has installed a good offense. He has really turned around JC's overall play. He has held this team together through a fairly heavy **** storm and these guy pull for him every week. I would not b opposed to having him come back in a reduced roll (if he would accept that) or just keep him as HC amd let him focus on that. He certainly is not as terrible as you make him out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Year_of_The_Monk Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 If these guys keep playing like this, I don't see how they haven't earned another year esp with Sherm calling the plays... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passizle Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Despite the fact the team is playing better now, IMHO Coach Zorn still looks lost on the sideline. He does not appear to be in control of his surroundings. He is still not happy about not calling plays even though the offense is working better. I think that he is just over his head. I really like Jim, but i don't think he is the man to lead us into the future. And you can tell this because the camera flashes to his face for 3 seconds twice a game? LOL. You guys crack me up ith this ****. I bet you read The Enquirer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nneece Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Wow, go win a game against a team like the Raiders and people get a big head. Yes, the Skins have played better. No, Zorn does not deserve another season. Zorn was a bad hire to begin with as HC, a result of the disfunctional situation in the FO. Fire Vinny, hire a real GM, and then let the chips fall as they may... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nittydachamp Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Zorn is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Well, then say what you mean. His W/L percentage is not so great. I agree to that, but its not his body of work. He has installed a good offense.He has really turned around JC's overall play. He has held this team together through a fairly heavy **** storm and these guy pull for him every week. I would not b opposed to having him come back in a reduced roll (if he would accept that) or just keep him as HC amd let him focus on that. He certainly is not as terrible as you make him out to be. i think the reason the team is being "held together" is because most of the guys playing right now are youngsters that are eager to prove what they can do. i dont think zorn is some great motivator, and neither of us can prove one way or another, but hearing him speak and his demeanor on the sidelines, he doesnt instill confidence. hes a poor head coach. theres absolutely no reason to bring him back. whats a reduced role anyways? right now hes just dead coach walking on the sidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passizle Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 i think the reason the team is being "held together" is because most of the guys playing right now are youngsters that are eager to prove what they can do. i dont think zorn is some great motivator, and neither of us can prove one way or another, but hearing him speak and his demeanor on the sidelines, he doesnt instill confidence.hes a poor head coach. theres absolutely no reason to bring him back. whats a reduced role anyways? right now hes just dead coach walking on the sidelines. Thats your opinion. You are entitled to it. Just let it be known that you have been dead wrong by assuming some pretty far out "facts" this year and last... and I would not be the slightest surprised to see another prediction fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Pease Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I think this discussion should wait until the season is over. My opinion will wait to see more clearly whether or not the improvement seen over the last few games is real (continues through the remaining games). If we continue playing good football then I say Snyder should go for continuity; but if we regress then a coaching change is warranted. That said, out team is still playing hard in spite of our loosing record and I give credit to Jim Zorn and the rest of the coaching staff for that. The draft picks we made are contributing such that our passing game is much better that last year. The mystery to me is about our OL play - The last half of last season and the first half of this season our OL was terrible. Injuries played a part and play selection did not help; but can that be the sole reason why our offense is now producing (with the players that are now starting on the OL)? I have heard some say that continuity on the OL is why our offense is producing; and perhaps that is a factor that Snyder should consider regarding the whole organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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