Sports teams that scared the piss out of White America

[Koolblue13]

The 59-65 76ers, because chances are, Wilt was nailing your woman.

[Ax]

The 59-65 76ers, because chances are, Wilt was nailing your woman.

Hey dude, Wilt was nailing EVERYBODY'S woman.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I think Lombardi is making some great points.

When I was a kid, I was a Hoya Basketball fan (my dad went there). I went off to college in the Midwest in 1980, and met other white basketball fans, mostly from the Midwest. Without exception, every one of them hated the Hoyas. Not just a little, a lot. They were the team that was "destroying basketball." They were scary and disgraceful. They were too black.

I might add that a good friend of mine went to Georgetown at the same time as Patrick Ewing, and was in two classes with him. He said that Ewing was very thoughtful and intelligent (but he was shy and spoke too quietly, and it it was hard to understand his deep rumbly voice).

Patrick Ewing was president of the NBA Players Association. Granted, he was awful in that role, but he held it. He's not a dumb guy. But when he was a freshmen, the perception was that Thompson found him living in a hut in the jungle.

It's funny that we've never really talked about the Hurricanes in this thread. Remember Michael Irvin's "Yea...Mike black. But Mike rich" comments?

The Hurricanes were interesting because they had their own modern perception on what it was to be young and black in America.

Thompson's teams were defiantly black. But they wore suits. They went to class. They majored in finance. They largely behaved themselves according to Thompson's draconian concept of discipline. They had this weird Nation of Islam-like vibe of violence combined with extreme self-discipline.

The Hurricanes thought all that was bull****. If the Hoyas were Huey P. Newton; they were Easy-E. They knew that the U was just a finishing school for the pros. They knew they were going to be rich and famous and fabulous. And they lived that way when they were 18.

I think the Hoyas drew a line between races. I think the Hurricanes drew a line between generations. Thompson's teams looked scary but they played and behaved like Red Auerbach's Celtics with an edge. The Hurricanes played like the Hurricanes.

I'm not sure that white teenagers embraced the Hoyas, but they fell in love with the Canes. Much to their father's chagrine.

"Johnny Unitas. Now that's a haircut you can set your watch to."

Personally, I never liked the Canes. But I simply adored Barry Switzer's Sooners who invented the templated that Miami perfected. Barry put fast black guys at every position, including QB, and just ran your ass off the field...and made fun of you while doing it. And then maybe shot you after the game.

But the Sooners were stuck in Norman. Miami was in Miami where Don Johnson was.

[Koolblue13]

Hey dude, Wilt was nailing EVERYBODY'S woman.

I know, but in 59, it was probably a little scarier to White America.

[LeesburgSkinFan]

Notre Dame vs. Miami in 1988 was a huge deal. Catholics vs. Convicts!

[Corcaigh]

Any of the international teams that beat the US in basketball scared a lot of folks I know.

[Major Harris]

I posted this in another thread' date=' but it applies here.

You know what I find interesting.

I've never met a racist on the internet.

blahblah [/quote']

well, to be fair, (and i thought you'd say this), we are in the georgetown tv market.

and to get a different view, i asked a buddy co-worker of mine who grew up in another part of the state what the views on georgetown were when he was growing up, he said they were detested. so maybe you're right.

in no way am i claiming i live in a racial dreamland, but i didn't see that here. your holy attitude concerning this subject is laughable at best.

[Mickalino]

Why is everyone afraid to talk about race in a realistic manner?

Because it's not realistic, and because it's hypocritical.

[Dan T.]

The 1968 USA Olympic track team, specifically Tommy Smith and John Carlos, shocked "White America" (I have problems with that term but use it given how it's been defined in this thread).

Their black gloved "Black Power" salute on the winners' podium after the 200m race was like a 2 x 4 across the jaw of White America. IOC President Avery Brundige was apoplectic over the display, which pretty much mirrored the reaction of the world.

I remember not long ago reading about Australian Peter Norman, the white dude on the podium that day who finished second in the race. He said that Smith and Carlos talked to him ahead of time to tell him what they planned to do, and that he was okay with it. He wore a human rights badge in support.

It you look at photos of the protest, one of them is raising his left hand. They planned to wear black gloves, but Carlos forgot his, so Norman suggested he wear Smith's left handed one.

Anyway, the **** storm that blew up over that was unprecedented, and reverberated for years afterward.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

well, to be fair, (and i thought you'd say this), we are in the georgetown tv market.

and to get a different view, i asked a buddy co-worker of mine who grew up in another part of the state what the views on georgetown were when he was growing up, he said they were detested. so maybe you're right.

in no way am i claiming i live in a racial dreamland, but i didn't see that here. your holy attitude concerning this subject is laughable at best.

How is my attitude holy?

And come to think of it, how is it hypocritical?

Here is what frustrates me. Many major American school systems were not fully desegrated until the mid 80s. Yet, every time I bring up racism in America, I am told one of two things:

1. It was something prevalent in the distant past but is largely wiped out now outside of small pockets of people that no one has ever actually met.

2. If it does exist, black people practice it just as much if not more so than whites. (Look at this thread. The idea that white Americans hatred of the Hoyas could be based on race is laughed at. However, the idea that John Thompson was a racist is largely unchallenged).

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

The 1968 USA Olympic track team, specifically Tommy Smith and John Carlos, shocked "White America" (I have problems with that term but use it given how it's been defined in this thread).

Their black gloved "Black Power" salute on the winners' podium after the 200m race was like a 2 x 4 across the jaw of White America. IOC President Avery Brundige was apoplectic over the display, which pretty much mirrored the reaction of the world.

I remember not long ago reading about Australian Peter Norman, the white dude on the podium that day who finished second in the race. He said that Smith and Carlos talked to him ahead of time to tell him what they planned to do, and that he was okay with it. He wore a human rights badge in support.

It you look at photos of the protest, one of them is raising his left hand. They planned to wear black gloves, but Carlos forgot his, so Norman suggested he wear Smith's left handed one.

Anyway, the **** storm that blew up over that was unprecedented, and reverberated for years afterward.

If I recall correctly, Norman was actually willing to participate in the protest, but everyone agreed that this would not have worked. Smith and Carlos got hell back in the US for this but went on to live productive lives. Norman was banned from the '72 Olympics by Australia and died a sad death. Smith and Carlos were his pall bearers.

They don't really fit the "team" dynamic, but it's a good choice.

If were discussing individual athletes who scared white people, Muhammad Ali would be 1-15 on the list.

Jim Brown might be 16-20. His love scenes with white actresses in the 60s were scandalous.

[Major Harris]

How is my attitude holy?

And come to think of it' date=' how is it hypocritical?

Here is what frustrates me. Many major American school systems were not fully desegrated until the mid 80s. Yet, every time I bring up racism in America, I am told one of two things:

1. It was something prevalent in the distant past but is largely wiped out now outside of small pockets of people that no one has ever actually met.

2. If it does exist, black people practice it just as much if not more so than whites. (Look at this thread. The idea that white Americans hatred of the Hoyas could be based on race is laughed at. However, the idea that John Thompson was a racist is largely unchallenged).[/quote']

to me there's 3 sides. there are those that ignore it, those that magnify it and see it in everything (like when they're walking in new york and see a policeman direct a black motorist to pull over, has to be profiling, right?), and those that are in the middle.

[Predicto]

to me there's 3 sides. there are those that ignore it, those that magnify it and see it in everything (like when they're walking in new york and see a policeman direct a black motorist to pull over, has to be profiling, right?), and those that are in the middle.

I also think that there are plenty of people who want to think that they are in the middle, but are actually more to one side than the other than they ever realized.

I would include myself in that group much of the time.

[Major Harris]

I also think that there are plenty of people who want to think that they are in the middle, but are actually more to one side than the other than they ever realized.

I would include myself in that group much of the time.

yeah, that's a good point. i'm sure i fall into it from time to time as well.

[Bang]

The idea that white Americans hatred of the Hoyas could be based on race is laughed at. However' date=' the idea that John Thompson was a racist is largely unchallenged).[/quote']

Once again, it's because of Thompson's own words and actions. They do indeed define a person. He has proven his racial leanings with his performance and his words. That is why it's unchallenged.

As to why I am laughing at the notion of race being a major factor in the hatred of the Hoyas,, why didn't anyone hate any other schools that had teams made up largely or exclusively of black players? Why is Georgetown the sole receiver of this hatred in the early 80s?

Answer: because the others weren't winning championships, and they were a physical team.

Conversely, Houston was comprised mostly of black players, they also dominated basketball in the early 80s, yet they aren't subjected to this. (Hakim was nicknamed "the Dream", not "the Scream", and Drexler was "Clyde the Glide" Hardly hateful nicknames. They played a completely differnt kind of basketball than the Hoyas,, they were finesse, they were grace, Georgetown would beat you up.

It's like the Raiders in the NFL. Why do so many people hate them? Because of how they carry themselves. They've always cultivated the image of the brute, and so did the Hoyas basketball style.

Right now one of the most hated teams in the NCAA is Duke. Why do so many people hate Duke?

Because they WIN. People LOVE to see them get beat.

People hate winners, except their fans.

~Bang

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

yeah, that's a good point. i'm sure i fall into it from time to time as well.

That's basically my point. You can never have an honest discussion about race, because as individuals we can never admit our own racial biases. Try to have a discussion about inter-racial relationships. It's very very rare that someone will actually admit that they aren't attracted to someone of a different race. (My favorite example are the guys who prove their open-mindedness by pointing out how hot Halle Berry is even though I have family members darker than Halle Berry).

This relates to Georgetown in that no one can ever admit that "I didn't like the 12 angry looking black dudes and their ******* black coach beating the **** out of everyone."

Except for my Uncle Louie. He freely admitted this. He also advised me to always go to the black cashier but to pay attention, because they sometimes make mistakes in your favor and sometimes make mistakes that can hurt you. You call them on the mistakes that can hurt you. (It's amazing that I grew able to read).

[Major Harris]

because as individuals we can never admit our own racial biases. .

but it's perfectly ok to admit everyone else's, right?

[Predicto]

Once again, it's because of Thompson's own words and actions. They do indeed define a person. He has proven his racial leanings with his performance and his words. That is why it's unchallenged.

As to why I am laughing at the notion of race being a major factor in the hatred of the Hoyas,, why didn't anyone hate any other schools that had teams made up largely or exclusively of black players? Why is Georgetown the sole receiver of this hatred in the early 80s?

Answer: because the others weren't winning championships, and they were a physical team.

Conversely, Houston was comprised mostly of black players, they also dominated basketball in the early 80s, yet they aren't subjected to this. (Hakim was nicknamed "the Dream", not "the Scream", and Drexler was "Clyde the Glide" Hardly hateful nicknames. They played a completely differnt kind of basketball than the Hoyas,, they were finesse, they were grace, Georgetown would beat you up.

It's like the Raiders in the NFL. Why do so many people hate them? Because of how they carry themselves. They've always cultivated the image of the brute, and so did the Hoyas basketball style.

Right now one of the most hated teams in the NCAA is Duke. Why do so many people hate Duke?

Because they WIN. People LOVE to see them get beat.

People hate winners, except their fans.

~Bang

I think you make a good point, but I also think it was because the Hoyas became a symbol in a lot of people's minds. Kind of like Muhammad Ali, or (for that matter), Duke.

North Carolina has won pretty much as much as Duke has over the past decade. So has Michigan State, Kansas, Florida and some others. But only the Dookies have become a symbol of a certain type of team.

It was the same with the Hoyas, and race did play at least a part in it.

[Predicto]

but it's perfectly ok to admit everyone else's, right?

Human nature, dude.

We can only do our best and try to be honest with ourselves. Some people are better at examining their own preconceptions than others, but no one is perfect at it. Sometimes we need someone else to point things out to us.

Unfortunately, sometimes the people with the strongest preconceptions are the least willing to listen to anyone else, but what are you gonna do? Human nature again.

[Major Harris]

e

Unfortunately, sometimes the people with the strongest preconceptions are the least willing to listen to anyone else,

and often times they're most willing to tell everyone else about theirs.

[Predicto]

and often times they're most willing to tell everyone else about theirs.

That's true too.

hey wait,what are you trying to say? :mad:

[hyphenatedbren]

Phi Slamma Jamma was the Houston Cougars (Olajuwan and Clyde Drexler). Houston lost to Patrick Ewing's Georgetown team in the '83 finals.

I hate to derail the thread but they lost in '83 to Jim Valvano's NC State team. They lost in '84 to the Hoyas.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

As to why I am laughing at the notion of race being a major factor in the hatred of the Hoyas,, why didn't anyone hate any other schools that had teams made up largely or exclusively of black players? Why is Georgetown the sole receiver of this hatred in the early 80s?

Because there is black and there is "BLACK."

Why did White Americans gallvanize behind Joe Frazier during his fights with Ali? Because Joe acted and behaved the way White America wanted its black athletes to behave. Ali acted and behaved the way he wanted to.

Georgetown was the Ali of college basketball. It was defiantly black.

Part of the problem with this discussion is that there is no real current athlete or team that plays within this framework. Part of that is that society has gotten slightly more open and accepting. The other reason is that there really is not a radical black political movement currently in this country.

And we just don't produce John Thompsons anymore. Up until Thompson, every black coach was supposed to say "Thank you, sir, for this opportunity. I will do my darndest not to let you down." Thompson took the job and said "**** you." He basically behaved as if were Bobby Knight. Mainstream America could barely tolerate Knight; they certainly weren't going to enjoy a 6'10 black guy acting that way.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I hate to derail the thread but they lost in '83 to Jim Valvano's NC State team. They lost in '84 to the Hoyas.

Thanks. I always get the order of those tourneys confused.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

but it's perfectly ok to admit everyone else's, right?

I have my own. I've never claimed to be a perfect or even good person.