Sports teams that scared the piss out of White America

[Bang]

Because there is black and there is "BLACK."

Why did White Americans gallvanize behind Joe Frazier during his fights with Ali? Because Joe acted and behaved the way White America wanted its black athletes to behave. Ali acted and behaved the way he wanted to.

Georgetown was the Ali of college basketball. It was defiantly black.

Part of the problem with this discussion is that there is no real current athlete or team that plays within this framework. Part of that is that society has gotten slightly more open and accepting. The other reason is that there really is not a radical black political movement currently in this country.

And we just don't produce John Thompsons anymore. Up until Thompson' date=' every black coach was supposed to say "Thank you, sir, for this opportunity. I will do my darnedest not to let you down." Thompson took the job and said "**** you." He basically behaved as if were Bobby Knight. Mainstream America could barely tolerate Knight; they certainly weren't going to enjoy a 6'10 black guy acting that way.[/quote']

I don't know about Joe Frazier being the acceptable negro, so to speak. Ali did cause some racial tension around him, but also, Ali was the mouth, the ****y jerk.. People tend to side with the other guy to see guys like Ali eat his words. It's a much more compelling storyline for Ali to get his come-uppance for his lip, not his color.

I can't disagree with anything else you've got there, but I will say that because of Thompson (and others) we don't blink about a black coach anymore, and they don't have to play the kiss ass role anymore.

Perhaps we don't produce John Thompsons anymore because no we longer need them. Definitely a good thing.

And while Thompson's teams were certainly tough, he never was anything but a good sport as a coach.. a class act. You never saw him throwing chairs or doing any of the stuff Knight would do. (I can't STAND Bob Knight. He's a Jerk with a capital J)

When i say Thompsonwas a racist, it wasn't born of hate as far as I could see, as we discussed earlier, he had an agenda, and he pursued it. And as you pointed out, he made damn sure those kids took advantage of what he offered,, he didn't ust exploit them for their ball handling skills like so many other coaches have done. He MADE them into men and made them get educations. I remember Michael Graham,, one of the best players on the team, a real intimidator, very tough, and because he thought he was a coddled athlete, he skipped a final exam or something, and Thompson got rid of him.)

What about John Cheney, former Temple coach? That guy isn't what I'd call hated.. but he had a thug mentality of his own,, sent players out to hurt other guys, started actual fistfights with other coaches, among other things. He was always viewed as quirky.. at least that was the notion I got. But as you point out, I do come from a background that was exposed to everyone, not from an insulated place in which other races and cultures were something seen rarely, if ever.

Good debate today. I've enjoyed this.

~Bang

[shk75]

I think Lombardi makes some good points but I do not condone the fact that he wants to kill of of my people in Miami. As a Cuban I do not understand why you hate my people in Miami...what did we do to offend you so much?

[Major Harris]

What about John Cheney, former Temple coach? That guy isn't what I'd call hated.. but he had a thug mentality of his own,, sent players out to hurt other guys, started actual fistfights with other coaches, among other things.

~Bang

some of the best rants...prop 52 rant was great, and his threat to kill calipari is classic.

[Predicto]

Perhaps we don't produce John Thompsons anymore because no we longer need them. Definitely a good thing.

Kind of like Jesse Jackson, in a way.

[Major Harris]

Kind of like Jesse Jackson, in a way.

i'll take thompson here.

[Predicto]

i'll take thompson here.

I'm not asking you to choose.

I'm just sayint that they both were products of their times, and the way they acted makes a lot more sense in the context of those times.

Remember, Jesse did a lot of good before he became a bitter charicature of himself.

[shk75]

I'm not asking you to choose.

I'm just sayint that they both were products of their times, and the way they acted makes a lot more sense in the context of those times.

Remember, Jesse did a lot of good before he became a bitter charicature of himself.

I would like to repeat this and Jesse did A LOT of good especially in the field of human rights not just in the US but around the world. It is a shame people today dont realize all the good he has done.

[Bang]

I'm not asking you to choose.

I'm just sayint that they both were products of their times, and the way they acted makes a lot more sense in the context of those times.

Remember, Jesse did a lot of good before he became a bitter charicature of himself.

Exactly.

BTW, don't ever change that sig.

LOVE it.

~Bang

[Major Harris]

I'm not asking you to choose.

I'm just sayint that they both were products of their times, and the way they acted makes a lot more sense in the context of those times.

Remember, Jesse did a lot of good before he became a bitter charicature of himself.

i was being silly.

[Zhouse]

I love the tailgate because of threads and discussions like these. Thank you!!

[Predicto]

Exactly.

BTW, don't ever change that sig.

LOVE it.

~Bang

The best thing about it is knowing that someone, somewhere, is getting a seizure because of it.

[NavyDave]

So would I be out of line to mention that my biggest fear is the fellas from around the way will actually start thinking Soccer is a sport and they will forgo hoops and the pigskin, get hair extensions try to be known by their first name, and take flopping and fake injuries to a new level?

[shk75]

So would I be out of line to mention that my biggest fear is the fellas from around the way will actually start thinking Soccer is a sport and they will forgo hoops and the pigskin, get hair extensions try to be known by their first name, and take flopping and fake injuries to a new level?

Yeah probably since the biggest floppers in the NBA and soccer tend to be the Europeans.

[Tastes Like Chicken]

I think Mike Tyson scared 'White America' all by himself during his ascent and beyond. Maybe some even today, though he's kind of a circus sideshow or one who draws pity these days.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I've made two mistakes on this thread.

1. I left out Tark's UNLV teams.

2. I sometimes forget that people are actually born and raised in DC. I lived in DC for ten years and became friends with exactly three natives. I assume that everyone is from, like, Indiana or something. So, it never even dawned on me that Georgetown would be the local team that people grew up rooting for.

Having said that, I suggest a test. Find someone between 30 and 50 who grew up West of Harrisburg, north of Wilmington, or south of Richmond. Ask them what they thought of Georgetown Hoops circa 1983. I will be stunned if you are not met with scorn.

As someone else said, there were a lot of good teams in the early 80s. None of them will get the reaction that Georgetown gets.

[Bang]

I've made two mistakes on this thread.

1. I left out Tark's UNLV teams.

2. I sometimes forget that people are actually born and raised in DC. I lived in DC for ten years and became friends with exactly three natives. I assume that everyone is from' date=' like, Indiana or something. So, it never even dawned on me that Georgetown would be the local team that people grew up rooting for.

Having said that, I suggest a test. Find someone between 30 and 50 who grew up West of Harrisburg, north of Wilmington, or south of Richmond. Ask them what they thought of Georgetown Hoops circa 1983. I will be stunned if you are not met with scorn.

As someone else said, there were a lot of good teams in the early 80s. None of them will get the reaction that Georgetown gets.[/quote']

Fair enough, I still maintain you cannot blanket state that reaction will be due to race. I laid out plenty of other valid reasons as to why. Especially when you say "no one else will get the reaction Georgetown gets", and many of the other teams were majority black players as well.

I live here, but as a Villanova fan, hate Georgetown.

Ask those same people what they thought of UNLV, and they'll say "Tark cheated". People certainly were not "afraid" of Gramama, in fact, Larrry Johnson became quite the pitchman on TV. If people hated him over race, he wouldn't have been on television selling us Gatorade. (mostly what people would say about UNLV is that when they were on top, the tournament was pretty dull. They blew everyone out, and there was no doubt as to who would win.)

Ask them what they thought of Houston, and they won't give you anything racial. (unless of course you ask a racist.) In fact they'll probably name Hakim as "the Dream" and mention the Twin Towers. But not what color they were.

No one else played like Georgetown. You have to factor that into your argument at least somewhat for me to give it the credibility you think it has.

~Bang

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

No one else played like Georgetown. You have to factor that into your argument at least somewhat for me to give it the credibility you think it has.

That may be part of it. They took physicality to a whole new level. But it's not like playing against Bob Knight's teams was a picnic back then.

I think tv viewers will always have a slightly more visceral reaction to a player who looked like Michael Graham beating the hell out of someone versus a player who looked like Kent Benson or even Scott May.

[Bang]

Well, I'd be happy to go on record and say Bob Knight's Hoosiers never ever reached the physicality of Georgetown.

(and lest anyone misunderstand over these two days,, I'm not saying they played dirty, they played hard and were not afraid to shove the other guys around a lot. Rebound at your own risk. As I recall, they didn't foul players out at any higher a rate than most other teams. but it has been a long time...

They also had some tremendous finesse players like Sleepy Floyd, Reggie Williams.. but down underneath, you better come hard.)

You're right about the second part, but I'd have to think that part of that is simply because of the difference in population size. "White America" is a much larger sampling group.

~Bang

[Major Harris]

Having said that' date=' I suggest a test. Find someone between 30 and 50 who grew up West of Harrisburg, north of Wilmington, or south of Richmond. Ask them what they thought of Georgetown Hoops circa 1983. I will be stunned if you are not met with scorn.[/quote']

like i said earlier, i did that already. marion county, wv native, and you were right.

edit: i have to add, he even brought up race, saying most people in his area hated georgetown and thompson because he "always had the 1 token white guy at the end of the bench."

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

like i said earlier, i did that already. marion county, wv native, and you were right.

Ah, Fairmont.

That whole part of the state is weird. It's like rural Indiana and a Pennsylvania coal town had a baby and sent it to be raised by relatives in the south.

My mom went to Fairmont State and fled after a year.

Jared Prickett was from Fairmont West, I think, and played for Pitino at Kentucky. I think he was MVP of a regionals one year.

[Major Harris]

Ah' date=' Fairmont.

That whole part of the state is weird. It's like rural Indiana and a Pennsylvania coal town had a baby and sent it to be raised by relatives in the south.

My mom went to Fairmont State and fled after a year.

Jared Prickett was from Fairmont West, I think, and played for Pitino at Kentucky. I think he was MVP of a regionals one year.[/quote']

don't forget the supposed mafia presence either. *

*totally unsustantiated, as i've never spent more than a few hours in fairmont, just something i always heard.

[Dan T.]

LKB, now that you've opened some honest dialogue on sports and race, now you can moderate the discussion about why African American athletes are disproportionately represented in professional sports.

That could be an interesting discussion. It may have been broached before, but it is usually shooed off into a corner and not talked about.

[Bang]

LKB, now that you've opened some honest dialogue on sports and race, now you can moderate the discussion about why African American athletes are disproportionately represented in professional sports.

That could be an interesting discussion. It may have been broached before, but it is usually shooed off into a corner and not talked about.

I'm not afraid to say it. They're better athletes, at least in most of the sports we enjoy in America. I don't know why, but the evidence is overwhelming.

~Bang

[Dan T.]

I'm not afraid to say it. They're better athletes, at least in most of the sports we enjoy in America. I don't know why, but the evidence is overwhelming.

~Bang

Well, that's a start. The follow-up, without generalizing too much, is Why are they better athletes? Is it cultural? Genetics? That's where things get touchy.

[Bang]

I'd say some of it is socio-economic.. there's a lot more basketball hoops in urban areas then there are hockey rinks. Also in those areas there's more threats to young kids then there are in some nice suburbs or out in the country. Sports is a refuge for many kids, and I'm sure a great many parents encourage and push their children into those activities in school to try and give them a shield from the dangers.

We hear all the time the stories of the football player or NBA player who credits their parents and coaches for helping them stay off the streets and away from the dangers of their surroundings. And the stories come from the superstars on down to the last guys on the roster.

Every high school has a basketball court, but not necessarily a tennis court. Most have a football field, but not many have a swimming pool.

~Bang