No_Pressure Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellis Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 We still have "eye for an eye" justice in modern America. The crime is the first "eye". The punishment is the second "eye" but is ONLY identical in the case of death. For all crimes other than murder, we have a list of punishments that are financially based and/or freedom based. There is also probation and jail. You lose money and freedom based on the severity of the crime you committed. The eye for an eye is a crime and an acceptable punishment or combination of punishments that do not physically damage the criminal, except in the death penalty. We've simply redefined "eye". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forehead Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Wasn't the old "eye for an eye" flawed in that the wealthy could buy their way out of punishment or make their servants take it for them? It won't work nowadays, the rape example being one reason why. I'm more in favor of capital punishment being applied more liberally, assuming of course that things have been proven beyond doubt. I'm for capital punishment in cases of murder, rape, child molestation, and a few other things. I think most other crimes can be handled with the Singapore cane. Save my tax dollars for better things, like schools, instead of wasting it on prisoners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxBuddy21 Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. I hate when people use this quote because its taken as we cannot judge anyone if we have ever done anything wrong. Thats just dumb. The intention I believe is that you shouldnt judge other people unless you are willing to be judged but that is not how people take it. I also hate when someone tries to tell me not to judge others. Another dumb statement. If we dont judge people, how do we know who to love? How do we know who are our friends? Our enemies? You judge people every day as you should but you should also be willing to be judged and if you do not like the judgments received, you should look at yourself and see where you can improve. I have no problem with people being punished for crimes as I would expect to be punished if I committed a crime as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seabee1973 Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I hate when people use this quote because its taken as we cannot judge anyone if we have ever done anything wrong. Thats just dumb. The intention I believe is that you shouldnt judge other people unless you are willing to be judged but that is not how people take it. I also hate when someone tries to tell me not to judge others. Another dumb statement. If we dont judge people, how do we know who to love? How do we know who are our friends? Our enemies? You judge people every day as you should but you should also be willing to be judged and if you do not like the judgments received, you should look at yourself and see where you can improve. I have no problem with people being punished for crimes as I would expect to be punished if I committed a crime as well. The Judgeing part is saying someone wont get into heaven doing this or wont get into heaven doing that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 The Judgeing part is saying someone wont get into heaven doing this or wont get into heaven doing that Its also about holding someone to a double standard. In the case of the "Woman caught in the act of adultery" the double standard was that only the woman was going to be stoned and not the guy she was with. As for the "judge not lest ye be judged" well that's always told as a whole quote when in reality its only half the quote: "Do not judge, so that you may not be judged. 2 For with the judgment you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. 3 Why do you see the speck in your neighbor's eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your neighbor, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' while the log is in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor's eye. Some want to make this only about issues regarding Heaven, but personally it seems to work for both spiritual issues and earthly issues, be that as it may the reality is that in the end its about avoiding hypocrisy through double standards. When looking at what Jesus said about "You have heard it said, eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth...but I say to you to turn the other cheek." That is about forgiveness for the person but no serious scholar would suggest that Jesus means that we shouldn't have a system of justice where people are held accountable for their wrongs, what it does mean is that the victim of the insult because the quote is: but if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also In order to slap someone on their right cheek they must use their left hand, which is a very strong insult in Middle Eastern cultures because the left hand is the one that you clean your rectum with. However, the "Matthew 5:39 Do not resist an evildoer" section does cause a bit more of a problem, but IMO only when cut from its context because look at the list of things Jesus talks about right after: But if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also; 40 and if anyone wants to sue you and take your coat, give your cloak as well; 41 and if anyone forces you to go one mile, go also the second mile. 42 Give to everyone who begs from you, and do not refuse anyone who wants to borrow from you. Slapping on the right cheek=insult Sueing for the coat In the example of verse 40' date=' a court case is portrayed, in which a man is being sued and is literally losing his shirt (long nightshirt-like garment). The victim is commanded not only to give it willingly, but also to give the cloak, the toga-like outer garment that could not be legally taken away. Since the willing victim ends up nude in the courtroom, here too Jesus' teaching is hardly intended literally. It is a matter of being secure enough in one's acceptance by God to enable one not to insist on one's rights, legal and otherwise, but empowering one to renounce them in the interest of others, a perspective on the life of discipleship also affirmed by Paul.[/quote'] Forcing to go one mile=Roman law that soldiers could force someone to carry their gear for one mile, Jesus says go further. In the end this doesn't seem to be so much about advocating an abandonment of a system of justice, but about the abundance of forgiveness on the part of disciples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 An eye for an eye is too narrow in scope. Take for example, a mass murderer. Some gunman who goes into a public place and starts shooting. What are we going to kill him, resussitate him, kill him, resussitate him again, until we've killed him an equal number of times to the number of his victims? I think on a superficial level, it makes a lot of sense, but are you going to kidnap a kidnappers children? How are you going to rape a rapist? Eye for an eye only works to a degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Public executions would be a deterrent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Public executions would be a deterrent. They never have been in the past why would they be now? And when I say "the past" think further back than the last 200 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blue Joe Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Public executions would be a deterrent.In 2007 about 39 percent of all murders that occured in D.C. did not result in an arrest that year.Link Executions can only be a deterrent if people believe they are going to be caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devastate Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Well, for one we are a civilized 21st century society. If you want to live in the Dark Ages, feel free to build a time machine. civilized is a point of view. I for one feel it extremely uncivilized to tolerate violent crime like we do in this country. You know there are murders that do less than 10 years? I think those that would commit violence against others should be made an example of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I believe it is Gandhi who said "An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxBuddy21 Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Some want to make this only about issues regarding Heaven, but personally it seems to work for both spiritual issues and earthly issues, be that as it may the reality is that in the end its about avoiding hypocrisy through double standards. To me it says do not judge other people unless you are willing to be judged yourself or more importantly unless you judge yourself with the same scrutiny. I dont see how it says dont judge others at all but thats how most people take it. Like I said before, we should all judge one another but we should all also accept when others judge us. We are entirely too sensitive in this country now. No one can say anything negative about anyone else without repercussion and its ridiculous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blue Joe Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 civilized is a point of view. I for one feel it extremely uncivilized to tolerate violent crime like we do in this country. You know there are murders that do less than 10 years? I think those that would commit violence against others should be made an example of.The U.S. is the only western industrialized nation that still executes people. It hasn't exactly worked wonders for our murder rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I think those that would commit violence against others should be made an example of. So if people who commit violence are violently made an example of, who makes the example of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenspandan Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 obviously many americans are perfectly comfortable with barbarism. truly sad, really, but not surprising, considering that the question of whether we should torture our prisoners was actually a real debate we had to have recently. it just leaves me feeling bleak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxBuddy21 Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 obviously many americans are perfectly comfortable with barbarism. truly sad, really, but not surprising, considering that the question of whether we should torture our prisoners was actually a real debate we had to have recently. it just leaves me feeling bleak. More hippie BS that gets spewed all over the place. Just like saying war is evil and we shouldnt get into wars. Do you not understand that people who do bad things dont care how high and mighty you are or how "civilized" you try to act? They will just laugh in your face because they know you are not going to stop them. You can say you are better than they are all you want as they continue to rape, murder, sell drugs etc... You want them to stop? PUNISH THEM FOR THEIR ACTIONS! If there are no repercussions for actions, why do people follow the rules? The more severe the action, the more severe the repercussion should be. You want crime to go down? Make the punishments severe enough that 98% of people wouldnt dare commit the crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxBuddy21 Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 So if people who commit violence are violently made an example of, who makes the example of them? So if people rape and kill and are let out of jail after a few years and rape or kill your family member, who do you get to punch in the face for letting them out of prison? Do you just stick your nose up in the air and talk about how civilized you are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 obviously many americans are perfectly comfortable with barbarism. truly sad, really, but not surprising, considering that the question of whether we should torture our prisoners was actually a real debate we had to have recently. it just leaves me feeling bleak. It is distressing, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 So if people rape and kill and are let out of jail after a few years and rape or kill your family member, who do you get to punch in the face for letting them out of prison? Do you just stick your nose up in the air and talk about how civilized you are?It's hard not to be a monkey and use common sense and rational thought, but I'm capable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seabee1973 Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 And it's my opinion that someone who sets another individual on fire receiving the same punishment is not cruel or unusual. Setting someone on fire for stealing a television on the other hand is cruel and unusual. Just like giving someone who murders the death penalty is not cruel or unusual. But giving someone who steals a television the death penalty is. Sounds nice but then we should let all criminals go free without punishment of any kind. after all that would be turning the other cheek now wouldnt it? the turn the other cheek part is for us as humans the eye for an eye is for governments. if you have individuals taking the law into there own hands this what will happen but itys for the government to decide and its about letting the punishmnet fit the crime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan133 Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 "An eye for an eye will make the world blind..." -Gandhi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan133 Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 More hippie BS that gets spewed all over the place. Just like saying war is evil and we shouldnt get into wars. Do you not understand that people who do bad things dont care how high and mighty you are or how "civilized" you try to act? They will just laugh in your face because they know you are not going to stop them. You can say you are better than they are all you want as they continue to rape, murder, sell drugs etc... You want them to stop? PUNISH THEM FOR THEIR ACTIONS! If there are no repercussions for actions, why do people follow the rules? The more severe the action, the more severe the repercussion should be. You want crime to go down? Make the punishments severe enough that 98% of people wouldnt dare commit the crime. Hobbes, is that you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 I think we should have "The Tossed Salad Man" talk to high school students about peanut butter and jelly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxBuddy21 Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 "An eye for an eye will make the world blind..." -Gandhi And living in a fantasy world gets us nowhere. Wouldnt it be great if everyone was nice to each other and there were no wars and we could talk to bad people about the things they do wrong and they would just change their ways? Of course it would be but its not reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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