Snyder Could Learn From the Yankees - Suggestions

[ouvan59]

I don't dispute that they spend spend spend. But unlike the Skins who also spend, they put a quality product on the field year in and year out. When was the last time the Yanks were last in the AL East, or even 3rd for that matter? The fan base is massive because the team is always a contender.

There is a huge difference between the Skins and the Yankees. If there was no salary cap the Skins would be very competitive because we could throw money at every problem just like the Yankees do. We may not win the Super Bowl every year but we would be damn good because we would have high priced players at every position. Right now we have to pick and choose who we go after. Spending huge amounts of money has almost no repercussions for the Yankees because they can always throw more money at the problem if the big name acquisitions don't work out. If we swing and miss on a Free Agent signing we have to live with the miss (and the mess) because we can't even undo the signing by releasing or trading that player. The cap ramifications are enormous. You mention all those home grown guys that the Yankees have and act like that is the reason they win but they missed the playoffs last year with that same roster full of home grown guys. What did they do? They went out and bought every big name free agent available. We can't do that because of the salary cap.

If the Yankees get a major injury they just make a big trade at the trade deadline. If this were baseball the Skins would just trade for another Pro Bowl level left tackle who was in the last year of his deal to replace Chris Samuels. We would have signed big name free agents to anchor our offensive line and signed a couple of good veteran players as solid backup linemen. We would have long ago signed a good veteran QB, my guess is that we would have Drew Brees.

Everybody loves Bobby Beathard but he worked under a similar situation as the Yankees do now. Had there been a salary cap back then there is no way in hell we would have been able to keep the core of that team together for 10 years like we did. Not only was he able to keep the core together but he was able to go out and get Pro Bowlers as back ups (see R.C. Theilmann, Gerald Riggs). People love to pine for Bobby Beathard but he didn't fare that well in the salary cap era either. In 11 seasons in San Diego he did get to the Super Bowl but he also had a 75-101 overall record. He essentially operated the same way he did in the salary cap era. He only had one first round pick over the last seven seasons in San Diego (Ryan Leaf).

[Skinsinparadise]

We can learn more from the Red Sox than the Yankees...now THAT is a well run organization.

Maybe but I think the point of this thread again isn't that the Yankees is the best run organization in baseball -- its that there are parallels in the two teams. Both teams are run by overzealous owners with streaks of meddling with player transactions who are willing to spend whatever it takes to win.

Both teams have made similar mistakes -- overspending on veterans, not caring enough about developing young players, and taking an ad hoc and ever changing approach to building the team.

the difference is even though the Yankees have had a heck of a lot more success than the Redskins they STILL weren't happy and were determined to change.

Steinbrenner even before he got ill, stop interfering, Cashman was given control. And Cashman admitted past mistakes quite clearly and layed out a plan for the future quite clearly. Are we seeing the same from the Redskins?

If we had a passive owner with a tight budget, who didn't like messing with the roster then we'd be talking about lets say the Cincy Bengals and maybe used the Florida Marlins as a model -- you can turn over your roster and rebuild every few years successfully under a tight budget.

Doesn't it makes sense to compare the Redskins to the Yankees? No one sees any similarity?

[gortiz]

Hate them all you want, they are a successful organization.

you put Big Stein and his team in just about any other market not named L.A. or Boston and he wins nothing.

dude buys championships.

during that time torre was there when they won 4 out of the 7 championships, and THAT WAS ALL TORRE... not big stein.

[Rufus T Firefly]

If yuo remove the Yankees three highest paid players-ARod, Texeira, Jeter (Sabathia's salary was lower for this year)- their payroll would still be about 5% higher than the Red Sox.

That's kind of mind-boggling when you think about it. And it's a reason why you can't learn any 'lessons' from the Yankees and apply them to how to build a football team.

[Skinsinparadise]

Spending huge amounts of money has almost no repercussions for the Yankees because they can always throw more money at the problem if the big name acquisitions don't work out.

Spending huge money helps but the idea that you can't buy a championship in sports and that includes baseball, is practically a media cliche. The press loved to keep saying the Yankees can't buy chemistry - no more Tino, no more O'Neil. You can buy all the Giambi's you want, it ain't going to do it. Not even A-Rod. Heck Torre made millions on his book making that point.

Now that they win, it has to be purely about money. Money now does buy championships because it serves the argument.

Seems clear that money WELL SPENT helps buy championships. ALONG with chemistry and a good farm system. The farm system pretty much drove the Yankees bull pen completely and was a key part of their drive -- turning their major weakness into a strength.

If the Redskins spent their money well, drafted well, and factored chemistry -- then they'd be better. I am not saying they are a disaster in this but for the most part they have been mediocre.

And no I don't think if the Redskins were allowed to buy three Randle El's, two Archuleta's, etc that they'd be a Super Bowl team. Yeah they have signed some good players but overall I think they are too hit and miss with this stuff.

When the Yanks go through major hit and miss periods they don't win the World Series either.

[ouvan59]

Both teams have made similar mistakes -- overspending on veterans, not caring enough about developing young players, and taking an ad hoc and ever changing approach to building the team.

If the Skins were able to spend 3 times the amount of the average NFL team they would be having success as well. Why is that so hard to understand? We are limited on what we can spend money on. Our big expeditures come at a huge price whereas the Yankees do not.

[Skinsinparadise]

you put Big Stein and his team in just about any other market not named L.A. or Boston and he wins nothing.

dude buys championships.

during that time torre was there when they won 4 out of the 7 championships, and THAT WAS ALL TORRE... not big stein.

True Torre had a remarkable run of World Series wins with the Mets, Atlanta, and the Cardinals previously, the Yankees were just icing on the cake. The Yankees didn't win any World Series with Steinbrenner before Torre and the team hasn't won the World Series since Torre left -- whereas Torre has now won the series in the last two years with the Dodgers.

[iMeast]

Baseball also has no cap.

HTTR

[Griff]

Amen, The Yankees are my baseball team, in fact I will attach a picture of the tattoo on my ankle.

The image came out to large so I removed it, but I have the Yankees N.Y. on my ankle.

[ouvan59]

Seems clear that money WELL SPENT helps buy championships. ALONG with chemistry and a good farm system. The farm system pretty much drove the Yankees bull pen completely and was a key part of their drive -- turning their major weakness into a strength..

OF COURSE THEIR BULLPEN WAS GOOD. It would have been every other teams starting rotation because they couldn't have gone out and signed Free Agents C.C. Sabathia, A.J. Burnett and Andy Petitte. You keep referring to Petitte as home grown, which was true years ago. This time around he was a Free Agent.

I find it almost unbelievable that it has been ten years since their last World Series win. With all the advantages they have that is simply astounding.

[Skinsinparadise]

If the Skins were able to spend 3 times the amount of the average NFL team they would be having success as well. Why is that so hard to understand? We are limited on what we can spend money on. Our big expeditures come at a huge price whereas the Yankees do not.

It's not hard to understand if that point had any basis in fact. The Yankees are not spending 3 times the money of teams like the Redsox or Mets, not even close, not even twice as much. When you are talking about the Marlins and the bottom rung payrolls, yeah, but their main competitors are not being outspent generally 3:1 or anywhere close.

You want apples to apples comparisons, look at the 2008 NFL payroll where the Raiders were outspending teams by 50-70 million including the Colts, Green Bay Packers, and Eagles. I'll go find the numbers, I could be wrong on this but I could swear I have read the Eagles traditionally are way under the cap and we traditionally outspend them by a lot -- if so how has that worked for us in the last decade.

I'll throw the whole "understand" thing back at you. Why is it hard to understand the point that money IS an advantage but there is more to it than that? And a team that has won 5 championships in the last 15 years or so, can be totally a bunch of idiots that stumble on success by simply throwing money around indiscriminately.

To gain the Yankees type of money advantage wouldn't be the Redskins outspending the league 3:1 but adding another 30-60 mill or so advantage to what they do now. Do you guys really think if you basically give Vinny a shot at three more FA's then he can sign now, they'd be going to the Superbowl every 3 years? Maybe. I don't.

Do I think if they spend that money well, heck yeah. So the point again is does money help -- of course, it does. Does it help to spend that money well -- I guess that's the debate. Seems the counter point to this is you give Vinny a shot to sign three more Fa's -- even if only one of the three pans out, that's all it takes.

[Skinsinparadise]

OF COURSE THEIR BULLPEN WAS GOOD. It would have been every other teams starting rotation because they couldn't have gone out and signed Free Agents C.C. Sabathia, A.J. Burnett and Andy Petitte.

You point makes no sense in the context of how I made mine. BLC said they didn't grow their own players, so my response was Rivera, Hughes, Chamberlain, Robertson, Coke -- all were good, all homegrown young guys.

You keep referring to Petitte as home grown, which was true years ago. This time around he was a Free Agent.

Dude, he was homegrown, what does it matter that he took a hiatus with the Astros. It's like saying you keep saying Dockery is homegrown but is he really? Well, sorry Dockery is, we drafted him in the third round, it happened, he came back. It still counts, doesn't it?

If your point is they overpayed for him this year -- well they paid a whopping 6 million dollars for him, which is peanuts for a front line starter.

I find it almost unbelievable that it has been ten years since their last World Series win. With all the advantages they have that is simply astounding.

True they have been stumbling this decade with 8 division titles, 9 playoff series. The team has been a wreck. They and the Redskins have been about the same success wise of late.

[ouvan59]

You want apples to apples comparisons, look at the 2008 NFL payroll where the Raiders were outspending teams by 50-70 million including the Colts, Green Bay Packers, and Eagles. I'll go find the numbers, I could be wrong on this but I could swear I have read the Eagles traditionally are way under the cap and we traditionally outspend them by a lot -- if so how has that worked for us in the last decade.

The argument isn't whether the Skins have spent their money wisely compared to other NFL teams. They clearly haven't. The argument is that there is no comparison between what the Yankees have done and what the Skins have done. The situations couldn't be more different. A lot of people in this thread have made that point yet you still refuse to acknowledge.

[C26 Run]

Hire a real GM. That's all we need to do.

That was a great win last night. I'm so happy for the Jeter and A-Rod.

:helmet:

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Yankees championships are so phoney. Congratulations. You spent 75 freaking million more dollars than everyone else. You're awesome.

[MassSkinsFan]

you put Big Stein and his team in just about any other market not named L.A. or Boston and he wins nothing.

dude buys championships.

during that time torre was there when they won 4 out of the 7 championships, and THAT WAS ALL TORRE... not big stein.

His FO buys FAs, not championships. George doesn't do anything but sign the checks.

That's the point - bottom line.

DS meets with JZ all the time - do you think Torre had the Boss hovering over him like an anxious mother hen?

The whole money and big market thing clouds the basic issue - we need a Skins FO that has autonomy on football matters.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

skinsinparadise:

the yankees are successful because of the huge money they spend on free agents, this is all im trying to say. the two "homegrown" guys they have right now look to be failed starters that moved to the bullpen. both are solid bullpen guys, so cashman has 2 bullpen pitchers and a 2nd baseman.

my gripe is with guys like cc, burnett, tex, arod, damon, abreu, etc. these are the guys making the yankees the best team (plus the original 4), not a few young guys who contribute a small amount.

seriously, tell me about the talent in their farmclub. do they have a legit prospect right now? id venture to say the nationals have better talent in their farm system at the moment. do they have a stephen strasburg? or a braves tommy hansen? a hanley ramirez that the sox traded away? a ryan howard the phillies had? youre naming small time guys in an effort to say theyre building the farm system. the yankees dont use the farm system, they havent for 15 years. their biggest impact guys are mostly FA pickups.

thats all im trying to say going back to the original point. snyder could learn how to build a team (looking at a baseball team) like the phillies did or like the yanks did 15 years ago. build a nucleus of homegrown studs (phillies case its howard, utley, victorino, rollins, hamels, happ) then supplement it with some big name FA (cliff lee, ibanez, anyone in that bullpen). then maybe find a "off the garbage pile guy" like jayson werth.

the yankees are nothing to emulate IMO. once jeter, posada, and rivera get too old (which is coming) that team will have to find replacement for 3 all stars very quickly. and i doubt theyll come from the farm system. theyll sign joe mauer, hanley ramirez, and papelbon.

[Skinsinparadise]

skinsinparadise:

the yankees are successful because of the huge money they spend on free agents, this is all im trying to say. the two "homegrown" guys they have right now look to be failed starters that moved to the bullpen. both are solid bullpen guys, so cashman has 2 bullpen pitchers and a 2nd baseman.

You have too many rules for me to take you seriously on this point. OK players that they have developed years ago doesn't count, and if they aren't stars they don't count either? Maybe we should only count players that were born in NY otherwise are they really deep down Yankees?

Now looking at this normally: half of their position players are homegrown, their full bullpen aside from one player is homegrown, and 40% of their rotation --60% when they move Hughes back in it.

It's fun especially if you hate the Yankees that they are all imported FA mercenaries. But sorry to rain on that cliche with facts. They are partly big time FA's -- they tried the route of going mostly with big name FA's and that hasn't worked. Which is part of my point.

my gripe is with guys like cc, burnett, tex, arod, damon, abreu, etc. these are the guys making the yankees the best team (plus the original 4), not a few young guys who contribute a small amount.

People that follow the team have said what has done them in -- in recent years along with missing a front line starter is their lack of a bullpen, and yeah basically the whole darn bullpen is homegrown and mostly young. When the Red Sox had the edge earlier in the season people talked about the bullpen being the difference, the Yanks flipped that around.

seriously, tell me about the talent in their farmclub. do they have a legit prospect right now? id venture to say the nationals have better talent in their farm system at the moment. do they have a stephen strasburg? or a braves tommy hansen? a hanley ramirez that the sox traded away?

How can you have a conversation about this one way or another, what do you know about the Yankees farm system? the fact that you don't know about those guys proves that they don't have anyone?

Ramirez was years ago for the Sox. Hughes a couple years back was one of the top 5 rated prospects in baseball, what is he now 22? Chamberlain 23? How many pitchers have the Nationals developed that won 19 games 2 years in a row like Wang? As for right now, Jason Montero, catcher is supposed to be a huge prospect. Austin Jackson, CF is hyped. Dellin Betances, hard throwing top prospect pitcher. And its not like 2nd baseman like Cano who hit 320, with 25 hrs grow on trees -- Jeter doesn't put up numbers like that but is way better in the clutch.

thats all im trying to say going back to the original point. snyder could learn how to build a team (looking at a baseball team) like the phillies did or like the yanks did 15 years ago. build a nucleus of homegrown studs (phillies case its howard, utley, victorino, rollins, hamels, happ) then supplement it with some big name FA (cliff lee, ibanez, anyone in that bullpen). then maybe find a "off the garbage pile guy" like jayson werth.

Here you make my point. So I guess you are saying Cashman is full of crap and isn't building a farm system. Well, all i have to say there is just follow the team closer, and you would know that Hughes didn't struggle this season like you said he did and instead was a stud, Robertson has closer like stuff, they think Chamberlain probably takes over from Rivera as a closer, Hughes looks like has the makings of a good starter. Wang has been very good until recently when he got hurt.

You are right in one sense that haven't spent the same effort in developing position players that they have in pitching. Pitching is where to watch the younger players right now.

the yankees are nothing to emulate IMO. once jeter, posada, and rivera get too old (which is coming) that team will have to find replacement for 3 all stars very quickly. and i doubt theyll come from the farm system. theyll sign joe mauer, hanley ramirez, and papelbon.

They got Chamberlain to replace Rivera, their top prospect is a catcher, and a young wiz shortstop much better fielder than Jeter who I talked about in a prior post ready as well.

[Skinsinparadise]

The argument isn't whether the Skins have spent their money wisely compared to other NFL teams. They clearly haven't. The argument is that there is no comparison between what the Yankees have done and what the Skins have done. The situations couldn't be more different. A lot of people in this thread have made that point yet you still refuse to acknowledge.

The point at least the way I took it is there are parallels between the two teams -- spendthrift methods and meddling owners.

From there both made similar mistakes. The Yankees have admitted they made them, spelled them out and said here's how they are going to do it differently. Have the Redskins?

The counter points to this seems to be the Yankees aren't really well run, and that a monkey can win with these players -- well tell that to Jimmy Rollins and the Phillies, they didn't seem to think they were overwhelmed by superior talent. And tell that to all those teams that knocked the Yankees out of the playoffs year after year.

The Yankees did build their team better this year -- and if you guys think this team was built just like the prior years and in the same way then I guess will agree to disagree.

And if you guys think that if you give Vinny 3 or 4 more FA's a year, the Skins would be winning the Superbowl as frequently as the Yankees win the WS, we will agree to disagree on that too.

[mtruslow]

The Yanks have rebuilt their farm system. They're loaded and should keep winning for years to come. I wish I could say the same for my beloved Skins. I wish I could make Joe Gibbs 15 years younger and bring him back.

[Oldskool]

Baseball has a luxury tax

Football has a salary cap

Apples and Oranges here people.

[touchdowntailgate]

I would say that ths Skins under Snyder are more like the O's under Angelos than like the Yankees. The Orioles added FA after FA, made the playoffs a few times but never made it over the hump. For years the O's added bandaid FA's who would push them over the top but never did. It looks like after almost 20 years of ownership he is finnaly building with homegrown players like Markakis and younger traded for players like Adam Jones.

The Skins need to use the uncapped year to purge bloated contracts and prepare to be a bad team for a couple years as we build up young hungry talent. If we can do that we will be ready to bring in some free agents to plug in any wholes in our young hungry squad.

[Mooka]

We need to be more like the Yankees?

Are you on crack?

Hello in there. 2000 ring a bell? Redskins' Payroll A National Football League High .By Mark Maske .

This is football chief. Can't buy a Superbowl.

[Skinsinparadise]

just did a search, on line for baseball rankings, the best I can find was this:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7204

in 08, the Yanks were ranked as having the 6th best farm team in the major leagues, the prior year they had them ranked 3rd. Couldn't find anything yet for 09.

[Chicken Fried]

The Yanks also don't have a salary cap to worry about. They can get whoever they want.