Redskins Shortfall in Cutler Trade Shows Campbell Skepticism

[myzhi]

Well you don't know if he is more of an expert than you, I or other people on this board because he hasn't proven anything other than coming from a sytem that has proved pretty near perfect.

Maybe McDaniels was the brains behind the Patriots??? Is that what you are saying?

I don't need credentials to have an opinion. It's an internet message board in case you haven't noticed. Lots of coaches have come from systems that won superbowls and done nothing. McDaniels could be fired in two years or take the Broncos to the Superbowl. He hasn't done ANYTHING to show either.

He's an NFL coach. Even if he's the most stupid NFL coach ever, I'll still give him more props than anyone here. Once you become NFL HC, you'll get same from me.

I think it was mutual given what I have read, maybe you have more insider knowledge than me????

You were making it sound like he wanted Orton over Cutler. Did you miss all the news about Cutler wanting out? Try google. There's something call making the best out of a bad situation.

Doesn't hurt me at all. Doesn't make him right or wrong. Proof is in winning. As far as I can tell McDaniels hasn't done anything as a head coach. I hadn't heard that he was the genius behind Brady and Cassell.

What I do know is other teams in the league with more credentials than you, I, or anyone on this board felt Cutler had a ton of value. McDaniels upon taking the job felt he wasn't good enough for him.

When did McDaniels think Cutler had little value / talent? Getting 2 1st rounder + 3rd back was because they think Cutler had little value? Wonder what someone with ton of value would have gotten.

Are "value / talent" always the best way to go? Lets use a recent Skin scenario, when Saunders was here, JC had the better "value / talent," but we can all agree that Collins ran the system better. I am far from being a genius, but maybe, that's what McDaniels was thinking regarding Cassell.

As I posted earlier, I am not a Campbell fan or a Campbell hater. What I do know is Campbell hasn't done anything to prove he is better or worse than what McDaniels thinks he wants. Campbell might not be right for McDaniels system. Cutler might be the next Joe Montana. Orton might be just what McDaniels needed. Lets see how smart he is over time instead of beating a dead horse over a decision from a guy that had every advantage with his personnel. A guy that has done nothing as a head coach.

There are enough game tapes out there for McDaniels to make a decent assumption about JC's abilities and he's decide JC isn't the fit for his system.

And, somehow saying "He's done nothing as a head coach" some how puts him at same level as us. :doh:

[Leonard Washington]

It does illustrate at least the FO's opinion of JC compared to Cutler. The majority of fans and coaches would probably side with McDaniels.

JC has all the tools but really hasn't shown that he can be the man for 60 minutes, let alone 16+ games. JC plays like the backup qb who's the placeholder for the qb of the future. Hopefully he'll take a higher level this year. He's mastered not throwing INTs, lets see if he can master throwing touchdowns! :fingersx:

[Chump Bailey]

It's an internet message board in case you haven't noticed.

Strangely enough, I think that is definitely lost on some folks here

[Dan T.]

Jason's statistics of 8 touchdowns and 0 interceptions showed he was also capable of avoiding the critical mistake.

But was that at the cost of trying to be aggressive and thrown the ball into the end zone when setting up inside the 20? At the cost of taking some chances with a 3 or 6 point lead in several games early on to try and break them open?

I wonder if Campbell's almost obsessive cautiousness is a remnant of Joe Gibbs' tutelage. A huge part of Gibbs' conservative offensive philospohy was DO NOT MAKE the killing mistake. Campbell learned that lesson well. Maybe too well... to the point where he checks down much too often instead of trusting his arm and his primary receiver to make a play. Maybe with a second year under Zorn he'll gain the confidence to take chances on occasion. Sometimes the QB has to roll the dice... high risk high reward.

[Passizle]

Whatever his faults as a coach in developing relationships with his players, Josh McDaniels and the Broncos GM made the decision that Kyle Orton (yes, he the former #6 round pick of the Bears in 2005) was a better option for a passing game designed around a quarterback that takes a quick drop, reads and releases the ball in a fluid motion. Judging from what they ran in New England footwork and judgment at the qb position were key.

This is a common thought... and IMO a gross misjudgment. People seem to make this automatic conclusion that the Broncos though JC sucked, so they decided to go with Orton. This is not true.

I have read in several articles and have seen several reports on ESPN, NFLN, etc... that Cutler (continuing with his immature "me first" nature) told his agent that under NO circumstances would he play for Cleveland. And seeing that was what the trade involving JC was about... Take from it what you will...

[zoony]

Bulldog, I agree but yet I don't.

I think that the Redskins love affair with Jason Campbell is evident. They mortgaged their future to take him. They made their head coaching decision around his development. He has shown that his job is safe no matter how stagnant our offense is or how unproductive he is. Even when the playoffs are out of reach and we have nothing to lose. The job is his. Zorn, at every opportunity, says Campbell is his guy no matter what.

Quite frankly it's an obsession that has had a lot of us beating our heads against the wall. You'd think Campbell had won us a superbowl and is just going thru a rough patch the way the organization blindly sticks by him.

So along comes the Cutler opportunity, and the Redskins make a bid. It was surprising for me to hear, because of their history of infatuation with Campbell.

Now that some time has passed, I think that the front office saw an opportunity to trade in their BMW (perceived BMW) for (what they perceived to be) a Rolls Royce in Cutler. That's all.

I think the infatuation with Jason Campbell and his lack of accountability will continue through at least this season. He is Zorn's guy, and Zorn has made the decision to sink or swim with him, even before he got off the plane from Seattle. Vinny and Dan know this, which is why he got the job. So one of two things will happen.

1- Jason will "get it", and he and Zorn will be a success story of 2009 and beyond...

2- Jason will continue as usual, and both he and Zorn will be gone at the end of the year.

Let's all hope and pray for option 1.

.......

[zoony]

I wonder if Campbell's almost obsessive cautiousness is a remnant of Joe Gibbs' tutelage. A huge part of Gibbs' conservative offensive philospohy was DO NOT MAKE the killing mistake. Campbell learned that lesson well. Maybe too well... to the point where he checks down much too often instead of trusting his arm and his primary receiver to make a play. Maybe with a second year under Zorn he'll gain the confidence to take chances on occasion. Sometimes the QB has to roll the dice... high risk high reward.

I respect that argument but I'll never buy it.

I think Joe Gibbs' in his second stint was unfairly labeled as conservative. Unfair because I think he did what he had to do based on the talent he had on hand in order to win games.

Flash back to Redskins teams of the past and how dynamic our offense was when we actually had competency behind center- and I'll just never buy the argument that Joe Gibbs coached Campbell to be tentative. I think he just took a lot of the playbook away from him b/c Campbell isn't very good.

.....

[Dah-Dee]

This is a common thought... and IMO a gross misjudgment. People seem to make this automatic conclusion that the Broncos though JC sucked, so they decided to go with Orton. This is not true.

I have read in several articles and have seen several reports on ESPN, NFLN, etc... that Cutler (continuing with his immature "me first" nature) told his agent that under NO circumstances would he play for Cleveland. And seeing that was what the trade involving JC was about... Take from it what you will...

If Denver had been satisfied getting Campbell in a trade, the Skins and Broncos wouldn't have needed Cleveland in the 3-way deal you mention. So.... looks like Denver didn't want Campbell, picked Orton over Campbell.

[drowland]

This is a common thought... and IMO a gross misjudgment. People seem to make this automatic conclusion that the Broncos though JC sucked, so they decided to go with Orton. This is not true.

I have read in several articles and have seen several reports on ESPN, NFLN, etc... that Cutler (continuing with his immature "me first" nature) told his agent that under NO circumstances would he play for Cleveland. And seeing that was what the trade involving JC was about... Take from it what you will...

The Browns weren't really players for Cutler. The Broncos were interested in Quinn, but there weren't serious trade talks. When the Skins learned the Broncos weren't interested in JC, they called the Browns and tried to get them involved in a 3-way deal that would of landed Quinn in Denver and Cutler in DC. The compensation wasn't right so the Browns backed out.

[rd421]

O SNAP! Another one...

[ST is my boy]

Tell us something we don't already know.

He is on the verge of being a bust.

Colt has shown more promise in only a few preseason games than JC has in four years.

I know you have said some REALLY stupid things on this website. But you have now crossed the line.

Credibility.....shot.

[BuryYourDuke]

My sentiments exactly.

[LadySkinsFan]

So because he coached Brady and Cassell on one of the best franchises in the NFL, he is now an expert on QB's?

A guy who has never been a head coach in the NFL doesn't want Cutler or Campbell. Cutler who is looked upon as a franchise QB by many.

I am not ready to crown McDaniels as anything yet but a guy who was fortunate in the system he is in. He certainly has made a mockery of his brief time in Denver. Lets see him do something as a coach before we make him king.

McDaniels was chest beating, didn't step up to say that Cutler was not going to be traded, which was all that Cutler wanted to hear, and then traded away a franchise QB. Wonder what the Denver fans will have to say about their new head coach this time next year.

The Broncos owner supported his new head coach, a typical management move.

[Dan T.]

Bulldog, I agree but yet I don't.

I think that the Redskins love affair with Jason Campbell is evident. They mortgaged their future to take him. They made their head coaching decision around his development. He has shown that his job is safe no matter how stagnant our offense is or how unproductive he is. Even when the playoffs are out of reach and we have nothing to lose. The job is his. Zorn, at every opportunity, says Campbell is his guy no matter what.

.......

You don't think the love affair is over? They were madly in love at first, but have come to realize that the marriage isn't all it was cracked up to be. IIRC, Snyder personally went down and watched Campbell's workout in Auburn, and invested alot of his emerging football reputation on Campbell being THE guy. But the bloom is off that rose.

The first sign was no attempt to extend him, the message being you haven't proven yourself yet, so you've got this year, the second under Zorn, to earn a starting QB contract.

The second sign was the circus of the last couple weeks, as the Redskins jumped headlong into the Cutler sweepstakes. They tried to dump the 1st wife for the trophy wife, and it didn't work out. I give this marriage one more year, unless Campbell gets a boob job, face lift, and "performs" better if you know what I mean. [/close marriage analogy]

[wvtbred]

This is a common thought... and IMO a gross misjudgment. People seem to make this automatic conclusion that the Broncos though JC sucked, so they decided to go with Orton. This is not true.

I have read in several articles and have seen several reports on ESPN, NFLN, etc... that Cutler (continuing with his immature "me first" nature) told his agent that under NO circumstances would he play for Cleveland. And seeing that was what the trade involving JC was about... Take from it what you will...

Could it be that they took Orton over Campbell because he is just plain better?

[The Rook]

I am still waiting for the link to what the Skins offered. Until then, "the Broncos think ..." is pure speculation. :doh:

:helmet: The Rook

[BuryYourDuke]

You don't think the love affair is over? They were madly in love at first, but have come to realize that the marriage isn't all it was cracked up to be. IIRC, Snyder personally went down and watched Campbell's workout in Auburn, and invested alot of his emerging football reputation on Campbell being THE guy. But the bloom is off that rose.

The first sign was no attempt to extend him, the message being you haven't proven yourself yet, so you've got this year, the second under Zorn, to earn a starting QB contract.

The second sign was the circus of the last couple weeks, as the Redskins jumped headlong into the Cutler sweepstakes. They tried to dump the 1st wife for the trophy wife, and it didn't work out. I give this marriage one more year, unless Campbell gets a boob job, face lift, and "performs" better if you know what I mean. [/close marriage analogy]

The main difference here is that your wife can get surgery to look better. NFL QB's can't get surgery to get better.

[KingGibbs]

Bulldog. Another well thought out post. You know I've got nothing but respect for you. We are on the same page more often then not.

The bottom line IMO? I'm tired of the JC excuses. We all want the guy to succeed because he is the QB of our beloved team. People keep using the WCO as an excuse for him when failing to realize he had the most success at Auburn in a WC style offense.

The amount invested in him when drafted has reaped very little in return considering the Kings ransom we paid to get him.

Last but not least? If you are a front office and have any confidence in your QB and see him as the future, you don't let him go into the last year of his contract w/out an extension. All you are doing is taking a risk and losing leverage IFCampbell has a breakout year and then he has the leverage.

[wvtbred]

I am still waiting for the link to what the Skins offered. Until then, "the Broncos think ..." is pure speculation. :doh:

:helmet: The Rook

He says with fingers in his ears saying la, la, la, la I can't hear you, la la la.

[redman]

The average length of an NFL career is 3.5 years. JC is entering his 5th. If he was going to make it, he would have done so by now. Time has already spoken.

LOL! I won't even bother to argue with such simplistic reasoning. Keep banging your drum. It's the only instrument you play.

[SoCalSkins]

LOL! I won't even bother to argue with such simplistic reasoning. Keep banging your drum. It's the only instrument you play.

The tune is rising in the charts. You just don't want to hear it yet. If simplistic reasoning is all that is required to assess Campbell, what does that say about you and the even more hard core sheep on the subject?

[bubba9497]

The average length of an NFL career is 3.5 years.

NFL QB's actually have a longer career avg., especially those drafted in the first round.

Even Joey Harrington is still around on the Saints roster

[Passizle]

Could it be that they took Orton over Campbell because he is just plain better?

Sure it could... Thats what the anti JC generation think right away. I am just saying its just as plausible it happened the way I heard on TV. NO-ONE here knows the facts.

It would be just as plausible to say that the Skins were not interested in getting Quinn, so they took their finger off the trigger.

Only reason I even bring it up is because the ONLY reports that were mentioned about the Skins being even remotely involved was with the 3-way trade.

I find it funny how any JC critic can spin ANY story into a negative light on JC. You remind of Cowboys fans. What that poke mantra again?

[wvtbred]

Thats what the anti JC generation think right away. I am just saying its just as plausible it happened the way I heard on TV. NO-ONE here knows the facts.

How about this for a fact:

Orton is 21-12 as a starter, including 15-2 at home.

[Emoshag]

There are going to be a million Jason Campbell threads this year until he either becomes the long term starter or is gone.

Ummm, he has been the long term starter. Or at least the incumbent one with no challenge to his spot on the depth chart. Which is where the problem lies.

Hey, as vehement as I have gotten in the last 3 months over this topic and how much I believe Brennan is a better solution... I will also admit that this topic gives us as chatters/bloggers/messageboarders/twitterers something to stand on. There are the Campbell supporters who have hope he elevates his game. You have the Brennan people who hope Campbell continues to uninspire. There are a few remaining Collins people and lastly there are the very few who are hanging their hat on a free agent or rookie this year.

Its something to talk about and the beauty of it is.... if you think message is old, stale, irrelevant or offensive... you can choose to spend your time doing something else besides reading it.

Personally, I can go on at length about it because I feel that strongly. And I played quarterback on my last flag football team. And while that may be laughable (and it is).... that makes me more qualified than most of the ES'ers.

But the OP is right. I have heard at least 10 different analysts on different networks say that the deal breaker for the Skins was they thought Orton was a better quarterback. And while I disagree, Orton never had any real offense to support him. He does now. So we shall see. In fact, in another post there were bets being placed on if Campbell outplays Cutler this year.

Maybe the bets should be in Campbell outplays Orton.