bulldog Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 The Redskins and Bears offers were neck and neck. Both teams offered two #1 picks, one this year and one next. In fact the Redskins #1 pick is several key slots higher in 2009 than Chicago's. Both teams offered Cutler an opportunity to start over again in a major media market where he would get paid long-term. The Redskins could have matched the the #3 pick for #5 pick swap the Bears made as part of the trade as well. But the one thing the Redskins couldn't offer the Broncos was a quarterback that Denver thought would be at least a short-term solution heading into 2009. Whatever his faults as a coach in developing relationships with his players, Josh McDaniels and the Broncos GM made the decision that Kyle Orton (yes, he the former #6 round pick of the Bears in 2005) was a better option for a passing game designed around a quarterback that takes a quick drop, reads and releases the ball in a fluid motion. Judging from what they ran in New England footwork and judgment at the qb position were key. So, in essence the Redskins lost out on Cutler because the Broncos didn't see a fit in the 28 year old Jason Campbell. While that may be good news for those of us that didn't want to see the team trade away the next 2 drafts for one player who has had his ups and downs despite somehow making the pro bowl over Chad Pennington in the AFC, it is further evidence perhaps as to how much skepticism there is out there around the NFL about Campbell's future in the kind of quick precision attack the Redskins are trying to install. Based on the first 8 games, one would have to say that Campbell can make some plays, especially down the field with his arm, when he receives support from a strong running game and solid OL protection. Jason's statistics of 8 touchdowns and 0 interceptions showed he was also capable of avoiding the critical mistake. But was that at the cost of trying to be aggressive and thrown the ball into the end zone when setting up inside the 20? At the cost of taking some chances with a 3 or 6 point lead in several games early on to try and break them open? Whatever we as fans think it does seem as if Campbell has his doubters around the league, principally a group of GMs and personnel directors that still talk about his physical skills but then question how far he can go based on his mechanics and makeup. Snyder's move for Cutler was impulsive and in the end counter-productive because he hung his coach and GM out to dry after both had indicated Campbell was the quarterback in 2009. But it may have foreshadowed the reality that the Redskins will be looking for a quarterback in the 2010 draft or free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzmuda Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Hey, it's a Jason Campbell thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 This all is based upon one man's - McDaniels' - read of the players and their fit into his system. I don't know what sort of judge he is of QB talent, and frankly I'm not even sure at this point - without him ever having coached a single game - what system he'll run. You're of course right about McDaniels' doubts about Campbell, but my point is that I'm not sure how much we can induce from that what the rest of the league feels, or even how relevant all of that is to Campbell's actual development. Time, as always, will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 You put your point quite eloquently, but I have to agree with bobzmuda's sentiments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 You put your point quite eloquently, but I have to agree with bobzmuda's sentiments. You were the one asking for a single NFL source that questioned JC's ability last week. Those would have been hypothetical assessments. When an actual deal was on the line, JC was passed over for less compensation and a 4th rd pick QB from the same draft class as JC. All of that compensation offered by multiple teams for a player who entered the league a year after JC did, yet we couldn't even get a second round pick for JC. If you can't grasp the value the Redskins and the NFL have placed on JC and his potential as a QB in this league as a result of this deal, then you are choosing to be in denial about his ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD5 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Tell us something we don't already know. He is on the verge of being a bust. Colt has shown more promise in only a few preseason games than JC has in four years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Time, as always, will tell. The average length of an NFL career is 3.5 years. JC is entering his 5th. If he was going to make it, he would have done so by now. Time has already spoken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIXX99 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Hey, it's a Jason Campbell thread! What? Where? Jason Campbell is a shadow on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Wow a rehash of at least 50 threads on Jason Campbell. You are better than this. Lets look at the flipside. Josh Mcdaniels saw so much in a QB Cutler that he immediately tried to trade him away. Cutler who was valued at 2 firsts, a third, and a QB by another team in the league. So Josh McDaniels is such a genius? Cutler wasn't even a short term solution for McDaniels. Not a Campbell fan or hater, but the Campbell threads have definitely run their course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinzWILL Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 where is TK when we need him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Tell us something we don't already know.He is on the verge of being a bust. Colt has shown more promise in only a few preseason games than JC has in four years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD5 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 I have seen mannequins with more life, energy, and quarterbacking ability than JC has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tr1 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Hey, it's a Jason Campbell thread! Wow a rehash of at least 50 threads on Jason Campbell.You are better than this. Lets look at the flipside. Josh Mcdaniels saw so much in a QB Cutler that he immediately tried to trade him away. Cutler who was valued at 2 firsts, a third, and a QB by another team in the league. So Josh McDaniels is such a genius? Cutler wasn't even a short term solution for McDaniels. Not a Campbell fan or hater, but the Campbell threads have definitely run their course. where is TK when we need him? bulldog is a respected poster on ES. You fellas should feel free to pass on the thread if it's not to your liking. That being said, I don't view a guy who just cut Cutler because he went after Cassel as being worthy of even judging JC. That was confirmed when Denver chose Orton. Orton! Dear lordie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Maybe Bulldog had been vacationing in Bali all week and just heard the news. But in his nine years of posting, this is his first where he's started a thread in which the topic has been beaten into submission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavannahP Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Tell us something we don't already know.He is on the verge of being a bust. Colt has shown more promise in only a few preseason games than JC has in four years. Unfortunately, Im gonna have to agree with this statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Maybe Bulldog had been vacationing in Bali all week and just heard the news. But in his nine years of posting, this is his first where he's started a thread in which the topic has been beaten into submission. Perhaps, but it's worth giving someone like bulldog a respectful 'hearing' and commenting with some sobriety about the topic or avoiding the thread altogether. To me, it's more proof about how some people are so defensive, they'll throw Joe Gibbs, Al Saunders, Clinton Portis, Jon Jansen, Todd Collins, Randy Thomas, Casey Rabach, Santana Moss, Snyder and even respected ES posters known for NOT being vituperative over the side so they may continue to show favor towards a QB who is not even mediocre when you look at actual output, technique and association with anything resembling Redskins success. And I'd say it's not QUITE the first time bulldog has waited a bit to give his views time to ferment on a subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myzhi Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 All I know is some unknown ES forum posters are better at judging QBs than guy that coached Tom Brady & Matt Cassell. Yeah, right. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Hey, it's a Jason Campbell thread! Actually it is a Colt thread. You just have to look harder to find the message in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 But it may have foreshadowed the reality that the Redskins will be looking for a quarterback in the 2010 draft or free agency. I would rather put in Colt if JC falters. But regardless of this Collins has a short term stay with us. It might be his last year here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 All I know is some unknown ES forum posters are better at judging QBs than guy that coached Tom Brady & Matt Cassell. So because he coached Brady and Cassell on one of the best franchises in the NFL, he is now an expert on QB's? A guy who has never been a head coach in the NFL doesn't want Cutler or Campbell. Cutler who is looked upon as a franchise QB by many. I am not ready to crown McDaniels as anything yet but a guy who was fortunate in the system he is in. He certainly has made a mockery of his brief time in Denver. Lets see him do something as a coach before we make him king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myzhi Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 So because he coached Brady and Cassell on one of the best franchises in the NFL, he is now an expert on QB's?A guy who has never been a head coach in the NFL doesn't want Cutler or Campbell. Cutler who is looked upon as a franchise QB by many. I am not ready to crown McDaniels as anything yet but a guy who was fortunate in the system he is in. He certainly has made a mockery of his brief time in Denver. Lets see him do something as a coach before we make him king. More an expert than you, I or other people on this forum. Of course, you can always show us your credentials to prove otherwise. McDaniel wanted Cassell > Cutler. There are many reasons why. Mainly, he has been and ran the system for years. If am sure if he could, he'll take Brady > Cassell > Cutler > Orton. Cutler was only traded because he "supposedly" wanted out. Didn't his agent ask for a trade? Does it hurt that McDaniels thinks Orton > JC for the system he wants to run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 More an expert than you, I or other people on this forum. Of course, you can always show us your credentials to prove otherwise. Well you don't know if he is more of an expert than you, I or other people on this board because he hasn't proven anything other than coming from a sytem that has proved pretty near perfect. Maybe McDaniels was the brains behind the Patriots??? Is that what you are saying? I don't need credentials to have an opinion. It's an internet message board in case you haven't noticed. Lots of coaches have come from systems that won superbowls and done nothing. McDaniels could be fired in two years or take the Broncos to the Superbowl. He hasn't done ANYTHING to show either. McDaniel wanted Cassell > Cutler. There are many reasons why. Mainly, he has been and ran the system for years. If am sure if he could, he'll take Brady > Cassell > Cutler > Orton. Cutler was only traded because he "supposedly" wanted out. Didn't his agent ask for a trade? I think it was mutual given what I have read, maybe you have more insider knowledge than me???? Does it hurt that McDaniels thinks Orton > JC for the system he wants to run? Doesn't hurt me at all. Doesn't make him right or wrong. Proof is in winning. As far as I can tell McDaniels hasn't done anything as a head coach. I hadn't heard that he was the genius behind Brady and Cassell. What I do know is other teams in the league with more credentials than you, I, or anyone on this board felt Cutler had a ton of value. McDaniels upon taking the job felt he wasn't good enough for him. As I posted earlier, I am not a Campbell fan or a Campbell hater. What I do know is Campbell hasn't done anything to prove he is better or worse than what McDaniels thinks he wants. Campbell might not be right for McDaniels system. Cutler might be the next Joe Montana. Orton might be just what McDaniels needed. Lets see how smart he is over time instead of beating a dead horse over a decision from a guy that had every advantage with his personnel. A guy that has done nothing as a head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAARedskin Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Wow a rehash of at least 50 threads on Jason Campbell.You are better than this. Lets look at the flipside. Josh Mcdaniels saw so much in a QB Cutler that he immediately tried to trade him away. Cutler who was valued at 2 firsts, a third, and a QB by another team in the league. So Josh McDaniels is such a genius? Cutler wasn't even a short term solution for McDaniels. Not a Campbell fan or hater, but the Campbell threads have definitely run their course. No offense, but you're not making sense. The last 50 threads on Jason Campbell involved US REDSKIN FANS either praising him or bashing him. THIS THREAD is entirely different.......it deals with the Broncos (not fellow fans on this site) BELIEVING that Kyle Orton is ULTIMATELY BETTER and MORE CAPABLE than Jason Campbell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 No offense, but you're not making sense. The last 50 threads on Jason Campbell involved US REDSKIN FANS either praising him or bashing him. THIS THREAD is entirely different.......it deals with the Broncos (not fellow fans on this site) BELIEVING that Kyle Orton is ULTIMATELY BETTER and MORE CAPABLE than Jason Campbell. Trust me there are plenty of threads saying that as well. Just look at the thread entitled something to the effect "Nobody in the league wants Jason Campbell. Maybe I am not making sense to you, but the horse has been beaten thoroughly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 There are going to be a million Jason Campbell threads this year until he either becomes the long term starter or is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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