Why do people think that social programs give money to the lazy or promote laziness?

[AsburySkinsFan]

Why do people think that social programs give money to the lazy or promote laziness?

Because its easier to argue to cut their assistance if you convince yourself that they are wasting the money.

[Capt Rich Fla]

I can attest to that. I worked in a grocery store for 4 years through high school and people come in there driving SUVs with rims and wearing nice clothes using a welfare check, because they're either working an under-the-table job or selling drugs.

But there are people that do need it. That's why I'm for cleaning up the existing programs instead of abolishing them completely and I think we can start with the regular drug testing of welfare receipients.

Drug testing of welfare recipiants. Now that is a great idea.

[helptheSKINS]

Welfare was started to help War Widows. Then it was mover to areas like upstate PA and WV, where huge industries completely vanished and left people with no opportunity to find jobs or with money to move their families towards locations with work.

I can see the value in those things. Outside of a woman raising a family with multiple children or the physically disabled(not fat, that is 100% a choice), there should be zero financial benefits to anybody living in an area with work.

The solutions are difficult to understand, but if we are going to continue to move the manufacturing jobs out of the country, those in rural, small town America will only suffer more. We seem to want to continue making the problems worse, while at the same time, creating more spending on entitlement programs to aid it.

That makes zero sense. We are only adding to the problem. You make more on welfare than a 40 hour a week job that pays the minimum wage.

If you live in an urban area, have both arms and legs, have children in wedlock, but are working alone to raise them, you should not be getting a penny for being out of work.

You are lazy.

Well said Kool. :applause:

The OP is crazy if he doesn't think there are A LOT of people mooching off the govt. Obviously the disabled and kids should be helped. Able working citizens is another story. Welfare takes away the hunger.

[Koolblue13]

Well said Kool. :applause:

The OP is crazy if he doesn't think there are A LOT of people mooching off the govt. Obviously the disabled and kids should be helped. Able working citizens is another story. Welfare takes away the hunger.

Thanks bro. We need to do a lot of scraping of government entitlement spending, as well as the problems we have have created, that make the education and employment process so difficult and entrapping.

[HighOnHendrix]

Whatever happen to helping your fellow man. Should we allow our homeless to rot. The ill to die, or the disabled to parish?

Ever hear of charity? It's not the answer to everything, but neither are giant government-ran beauracracies that ultimately exist only to perpetuate themselves. If you want something mis-managed, let the government run it.

[AsburySkinsFan]

If you want something mis-managed, let the government run it.

AMEN!! So Cut the Department of Defense spending by 2/3rds!!!

[Monte51Coleman]

Drug testing of welfare recipiants. Now that is a great idea.

The clean urine industry would flourish.

[Thiebear]

Example:

Step 1: Hawaii: We will protect CHILDREN, We will cover the medical for children.

Step 2: Parents paying 300$ a month drop their coverage as it costs too much.

Step 3: Hawaii: We cannot afford this, didn't see it coming.

The government IS abuse of the system, Having worked within its ranks, they suck at everything. Whatever you get cost 2000x what it should and you get the Grade C version for the platinum price.

Again:

YOU START at the family, then the church and community.

Then the county

then the state

and THEN the Fed when ALL else fails.

We seem to want to do it Fed first.

[PeterMP]

Because there are lazy people out there and to pretend otherwise is either extremely niave or stupid.

[helptheSKINS]

Drug testing of welfare recipiants. Now that is a great idea.

It is a brilliant and obvious idea that somehow is not executed. Who the hell can argue it? That I would love to hear.

[Special K]

Point taken.

But how does it promote Laziness?

Well, it sure doesn't provide incentive to work hard.

Most of these programs end up being permanent government handouts because they are doing little to facilitate any type of skills training or counseling to help people to stand back up on their own 2 feet.

I saw this very clearly when I worked with an HIV+ homeless population this year in San Bernardino. The program we worked with was intended to be a "temporary living facility" that provided needed medical care to HIV+ patient and taught people life skills to go back out and live on their own after 2 years. Instead, over 90% of the patients remained in this program for 5,6,7 years. We working there b/c were doing a study on exercise and nutrition intervention in this particular population. Our study concluded in June, but as we did our exit interviews with the patients, not one discussed life after the program. Every single patient gave all of us the impression that they planned on staying there long-term.

THAT is a major problem I have with the structural set-up with many social service programs. I don't mind providing assistance to people in need, but I do mind when the programs I'm paying my money to have not implemented an effective model that moves people (assuming they are not completely disabled) quickly and efficiently through the system.

[HighOnHendrix]

AMEN!! So Cut the Department of Defense spending by 2/3rds!!!

We have done that before several times in the history of our country. It was an unmitigated disaster every time. There won't be entitlements to dole out if we are not protected. Obviously the entire budget for the military (about $500B) is not needed purely for defense - a large portion allows us to project our power and influence abroad in order to protect our interests. This is why we have not fought on our own soil since 1812. It's worth every penny of that to allow you the freedom to piss and moan about how much it costs.

[HighOnHendrix]

Because there are lazy people out there and to pretend otherwise is either extremely niave or stupid.

Part of the reason communism failed in Russia. It's human nature.

[IbleedBnG83]

I agree that the programs need an overhaul. Given.

I still argue that people don't go into life, or make decisions based on their expectations of the government bailiing them out.

There maybe problems with the way the programs are ran, but I don't think it is makes the country a socialist country nor does it promote laziness.

[IbleedBnG83]

Part of the reason communism failed in Russia. It's human nature.

Ok, now you are stretching things a bit...

[lovetoaster]

Well, it sure doesn't provide incentive to work hard.

Most of these programs end up being permanent government handouts because they are doing little to facilitate any type of skills training or counseling to help people to stand back up on their own 2 feet.

:thumbsup: Tremendous post.

[HighOnHendrix]

It is a brilliant and obvious idea that somehow is not executed. Who the hell can argue it? That I would love to hear.

I feel that is an invasion of privacy. I feel violated every time I have to piss in the ol' cup to get a job or because I got some minor injury at work. I grin and bear it because that's just the way it is. I don't think anyone should be tested at work unless there is a suspicion of use ON THE JOB. Otherwise, it's irrelevant. To make programs dependent on a drug test is baseless - it's not illegal to USE drugs, just to possess or traffic them. So there's not even a legal ground for you to stand on there. We as a society are WAY too hung up on who's doing drugs and who isn't. Our prisons are full of minor drug offenders, which is costing us as a nation an awful lot of dough, I'd hazard to guess that it rivals "handout" spending.

[Koolblue13]

AMEN!! So Cut the Department of Defense spending by 2/3rds!!!

What percentage of the enlisted men come from the poor population?

[Brad_Edwards_Fan]

It is interesting hearing the opinions of kids that grow up in these situations. I work with a program that is focused on helping high achieving students from low income families make it to college, and the resentment from the lack of family support that some of them show is eye opening. Granted, these are very focused students that have decided that they are willing to do whatever it takes to get into college and break the cycle, but it is hard to hear them talk about the lack of support they get at home. We had one student, who is a very gifted writer, get accepted to a summer program at Harvard (all expenses paid) where she would spend 6 weeks working with great instructors to fine tune her writing. There was even a process for the students that excelled at the program to be granted admission to the university upon graduation.

However, this student didnt go. She couldnt go. She couldnt go because she couldnt get her mother (who is her only gaurdian of record) to sign the permission slip. Her mother wouldnt sign because she didnt want her daughter to go off and, in the mothers words, "sell out". The student was crushed, and if she was less of a person that could have put the end to her drive.

While this is an individual event, and an extreme one at that, every week i hear the students talk about how they get no support or guidance. If it is so hard for the best, brightest and most motivated to get the help, what is the liklihood of sucess for the "ordinary" students.

Something needs to be done, and it isnt sending more money to these schools. Somehow the support networks have to be built and the students must be shown that sucess is possible and be given access to the opportunity to suceed.

[#98QBKiller]

The thing that really got me though with the people using the foodstamp cards was that they would buy the dumbest things with it...like expensive crab legs...I mean seriously :doh:...that money is for your FAMILY, it could be better spent on something else.

Lol. Crab legs have to be the least bang for your buck when it comes to quantity of food.

[difleha]

It's true. I saw all of those nice cars at those apartment buildings near the parking lot of the Redskins stadium. :laugh:

[stevenaa]

Because its easier to argue to cut their assistance if you convince yourself that they are wasting the money.

While I'm convinced you are sincere in your interest to help others, I've yet to see any post of yours that exudes the humility Christ possessed. You can be firm and resolute in your arguments without talking down your nose to those who have a different world view. I don't mean this as a personal attack, only an observation of your posting style.

Christ's message was one of love, peace and teaching. His was a message of helping people to help themselves. Yes, there will be those who are beyond the ability to help themselves. And as a staunch conservative, I have no qualms with helping them. But the social programs I help subsidize through my hard work are full of those who abuse the system. You cannot argue against that with any intellectual honesty. Let's teach them to fish. It is a far better expenditure of money than to just dole it out. If they don't want to fish, they have my sympathy, but they can't have my money.

[AsburySkinsFan]

While I'm convinced you are sincere in your interest to help others, I've yet to see any post of yours that exudes the humility Christ possessed. You can be firm and resolute in your arguments without talking down your nose to those who have a different world view.

Christ's message was one of love, peace and teaching.

Sorry, but Jesus wasn't a counselor who coddled those he talked to, and frankly I don't think I've called any group a "brood of vipers"

Matthew 23:33 You snakes, you brood of vipers! How can you escape being sentenced to hell?

My guess is that lots of folks thought he was a bit rude too.

[AsburySkinsFan]

You cannot argue against that with any intellectual honesty. Let's teach them to fish. It is a far better expenditure of money than to just dole it out. If they don't want to fish, they have my sympathy, but they can't have my money.

3 issues.

#1 those social programs that need funding are the very ones that are going to teach people to fish

#2 what will people eat while we're teaching them to fish

#3 their kids should not pay the price for their parent's behavior.

[PeterMP]

Sorry, but Jesus wasn't a counselor who coddled those he talked to, and frankly I don't think I've called any group a "brood of vipers"

Matthew 23:33 You snakes, you brood of vipers! How can you escape being sentenced to hell?

My guess is that lots of folks thought he was a bit rude too.

You aren't Jesus.

The other poster should have said, you don't exude any of hte humility that Jesus taught about.