campbell, west coast offense, audibles

[Reic]

I am all for more audibles.

hell, there needs to be an audible called every play just to make up for the lack of audibles that should have been called the last couple of seasons.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I am all for more audibles.

hell, there needs to be an audible called every play just to make up for the lack of audibles that should have been called the last couple of seasons.

haha good call. first 4 games of this season, 15 audibles per quarter.

[eljeasel]

haha good call. first 4 games of this season, 15 audibles per quarter.

Arent you being a little conservative? Only 15?

[corrupt3d]

Arent you being a little conservative? Only 15?

exactly, I want audibles to be audibled and I want us calling audibles for the other team.

[Darth Tater]

i am too young to know, but can someone else tell me if there were few audibles in Gibbs I? i wonder if JC couldn't cause he was young, or if Gibbs just never liked audibles. did williams, rypien, theismann, schroeder etc call audibles very much or was it rare? just curious.

I don't remember too many audibles back in Gibbs 1.0. As I understand it, one of the main things he'd do is call plays that if you stopped meant you would have to be letting some other play work. He'd spend time trying to find that play and if you audibled, he'd never find it. Actually, it'd be pretty layered, like:

Given the forms were using, they've stopped the dive and the hitch. This means that they do not have any deep coverage and the corners are playing tight which means that a fade with play-action will work and probably result in a big play.

Over-simplified but pretty much describes what I'm talking about. Gibbs believed that getting to the right play 4-5 times (assuming the players execute) meant that'd you'd probably win (and your offense would likely put up gaudy numbers) assuming of course that the other 55,56 plays were no bad (turnovers, lost yards, penalties). This is born out by the fact that most games are only decided by couple of plays and even a lot of blow outs are achieved because the winning team was just 5-6 plays better

[eljeasel]

exactly, I want audibles to be audibled and I want us calling audibles for the other team.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I an litterally laughing out loud!

[GURU]

Joe Gibbs' offense DID include audibles. Theismann and Rypien were masters at changing the play.

However, some coaches from the Air Coryell coaching tree, like Al Saunders and Norv Turner eschew audibles. Instead they have option routes and hot reads built into every play, so their quarterbacks rarely, if ever, change the play at the line of scrimmage.

Most WCO coaches have some audibles in their offense and allow their QBs to change the play if they see something at the line, so my inclination is to believe that Zorn will have some. Probably very few at the beginning, but more as the quarterbacks get acclimated to the offense and eventually master the playbook.

[Wyvern]

Odd. No one mentioned how Jason Campbell was often unintelligible when calling out audibles. I remember coaches mentioning to the Washington Post about having to practice with Jason on better enunciation.

That aside, Campbell needs to show a lot more confidence in running the offense, before he starts changing the plays. From what I've observed, he is somewhat deliberate, especially when he'd start locking onto his receivers. While physically quick, I didn't see the quickness in his temperment. Good decisions on occasion, but not quick ones, unless out of urgent necessity.

Frankly, Campbell was a good fit for the Gibbs-I offense, that didn't rely as much on audibles, as much as advance planning. However, Jason wasn't that great for Saunders' offense, that was designed around different concepts, quick decisions and quick accurate passes, even before the WRs broke free.

...It remains to be seen how well he handles the WCO in the NFL.

Here's hoping Zorn can coach him up.

[RandyHolt]

At least have some fake audibles no matter what to call when the D is stacked against the play. It certainly cant hurt at that time. We let Jason call an audible or two last year right before he got injured; he told the media and got chided for it, IIRC.

[z0eboy]

i just hope he can finally stay in 1 system more than a year. it would be nice to see JC progress in a offense built around him. JC has the talent to put up big numbers in the WCO similar to his auburn days

[Morneblade]

JC was given chances to audible in crucial situations in at least 2 games last year. Each time he refused to put the ball in his own hands. You can't play scared and succeed.

Against Philly on a 3rd down at the end of the game JC called a draw to Portis instead of a pass. Eagles stop us and we lose. He had a similar situation aginst another team last year as well. Might have been Giants or Tampa.

The Saunders system doesnt allow for audibles, so I have no idea where you're getting that.

[skins2victory]

Zone was a QB, he must no that audibles are important. I would think they will be used. As far as audibles go, the clossest thing we used to that last year was no huddle O, and campbell did great with that. It's a new year and I think JC is ready to step it up.

Go Skins!!!

[illone]

I think I remember Zorn mentioning in one of his pressers that audibles are a staple of the WCO and that Campbell will continue learning the rest of them in training camp as the offense is installed.

Or, I could be out of my skull.

[laxpck]

I hate to compare this experience to anything with the eagles, but think of the command that Donovan has of the offense he runs....he has had years to learn it....the idea that we might have a more gifted athlete that can keep the same system for a couple of years, a system that is going to utilize his mobility....I just hope we have a staple in QB department for our own run to the NFC championship...By the way I HATE Donovan...and I HATE HATE HATE CHUNKY SOUP. (but I want a QB)

[Wrenkels]

If U can remember Brunnell changing the play at the line, so that kills the thought that the Gibbs offense didn't have it. Was it me or when Campbell got hurt, that Collins was called audibiles during his five games as QB?

And yes it has come into question on weather JC can read defenses.

And if the coach does have faith in you, how are you going to be able to have faith in yourself. And last but not least. Sanders always want Collins as QB. I think he really never liked Campbell.

[kappaluvacee]

I never understood the facination with audibles in the modern NFL. Audibles are a big deal in the lower levels of playing football (college and below), but audibles really aren't a big a deal in the NFL as people seem to think. Pro offenses utilize a check-down and hot routes instead of giving a QB free reign to totally check out of a particular play.

Modern defenses have made audibles almost useless because the defense will just use shells and fronts to dictate the likelihood of an offense audibling out of the called play.

The Colts are most known for audibles, but it's not like people think. Their O-Coordinator sends three plays into Manning. 2 Pass and a Run. Based on the pre-snap read Peyton decides if he should stay or go with one of the oother plays. That's not even how audibles were traditionally used.

When Theisman fell out of favor with Gibbs back in the day over audibles, it was because traditionally a QB that called audibles would call whatever play he wanted that put the team in a better situation for success. Outside of Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, there aren't too many QB's I would even trust with that kind of control over the offense.

[HailSkinz1]

Joe Gibbs' offense DID include audibles. Theismann and Rypien were masters at changing the play.

However, some coaches from the Air Coryell coaching tree, like Al Saunders and Norv Turner eschew audibles. Instead they have option routes and hot reads built into every play, so their quarterbacks rarely, if ever, change the play at the line of scrimmage.

Most WCO coaches have some audibles in their offense and allow their QBs to change the play if they see something at the line, so my inclination is to believe that Zorn will have some. Probably very few at the beginning, but more as the quarterbacks get acclimated to the offense and eventually master the playbook.

Regarding Gibbs I, we also have to consider the fact that those teams rarely needed to audible; they were that good. If you can't stop the offense, it doesn't matter what the defense does. I'm reminded of the 50 Gut sequence in the 1982 NFC Championship Game made famous by the America's Game episode. Not exactly audibles, but they knew the Cowboys couldn't stop 50 Gut and Grimm wanted to destroy Randy White. It didn't matter what defense the Cowboys were in.

Being able to audible requires more than knowing your own playbook, you have to know the defense. That's the point of an audible. You call a play and when you get to the line, if the defense is designed to stop that play, or if you notice a hole in the defense that you can exploit, you check out of it to another one. Therefore, you have to be able to recognize defenses in order to audible.

Hail,

H

[corrupt3d]

If U can remember Brunnell changing the play at the line, so that kills the thought that the Gibbs offense didn't have it. Was it me or when Campbell got hurt, that Collins was called audibiles during his five games as QB?

And yes it has come into question on weather JC can read defenses.

And if the coach does have faith in you, how are you going to be able to have faith in yourself. And last but not least. Sanders always want Collins as QB. I think he really never liked Campbell.

I dont think Collins called any audibles as Saunders' offense didn't HAVE any. Saunders said so himself.

As for Campbell, I think Saunders wanted Collins to start rather than Brunell, then he would ease Campbell into the starting role. It's not like he didn't like Campbell, Saunders knew he needed more time to fully understand it.

Honestly, firing Saunders was a terrible decision, imho, he's a proven OC. We'll see about Zorn, I'm hoping for the best...

[Thinking Skins]

This is an interesting KFFL article on the WCO. (Oldschool posted it a while ago, but its still a nice read).

http://www.kffl.com/article/73828/488

Although each team's version of the West Coast offense is different, there are quite a few similarities between them. Here are some of the staples of the West Coast offense.

• Discipline comes first. Since the scheme is based mostly on timing, freelancing and missing assignments result in missed opportunities for points.
  
• Use the pass to set up the run. Most teams using the West Coast offense more often than not have a pass-first mindset, choosing to instead spread the defense out to get better matchups in the run game. (The major exception to this rule would be the system the Denver Broncos utilize.) The offense also should be prepared to throw on any down or distance during the game.
  
• The passing game attacks the defense within the short-to-medium range. This means the quarterback should have good accuracy in tight quarters, and it makes the receivers run precise routes in order to get open.
  Everyone is a weapon. Whether it's a four-receiver set, a pro-set, or a goal line formation, all of the players on the field (including tight ends and backs) have to be able to catch the football and make plays.
  
• Create matchup problems for the defense. The quarterback usually will make pre- and post-snap reads to judge where the ball should go. Audibles and motions at the line of scrimmage open up holes in the defense to create mismatches for the offense to capitalize on. The offense can also be run out of any formation, which will give opponents headaches as well.
  
• Ability to run the football. Although it is typically a pass-first scheme, the ability to run the football when needed is a must for any successful West Coast offense (or any scheme for that matter). Most West Coast teams now use zone-blocking to help in the power-running game (including Denver and Houston). This aspect of the scheme derives directly from Coryell and the Chargers of the 1970s.
  
• Quarterback play: Signal-callers should be mobile and football-smart. They will be expected to make reads at the line of scrimmage to figure out who the hot (or primary) read is on any given play. Touch and accuracy are usually a must; while a strong arm is a nice asset, isn't the most important thing. The ability to see the field and either get rid of the ball or make a play after the three- or five-step drop is important as well.
  
• Running back play: Obviously the ability to pick up yards when needed is a must, but running the ball is just one job of a back in this scheme. Many West Coast offense rushers are key cogs in the passing game (such as Brian Westbrook) and are also needed in pass protection, at times, as well with tight ends running routes more often than not.
  
• Receiver play: Wideouts in the West Coast offense obviously have to run very precise and sharp routes with the ability to separate from opposing defensive backs. What may be even more important, however, is the ability to make plays after the catch. This was a big reason why someone such as wide receiver Terrell Owens (Dallas Cowboys) was such a big-time player in the system.
  
• Tight end play: As touched on earlier, tight ends will mostly be counted on to be a part in the passing game as a receiver, with their blocking ability being an added bonus. Running sharp routes is a great attribute to have in this system, especially as a check-down target for quarterbacks trying to get rid of the ball quickly.
  

With all of these basics in mind, it is much easier to assimilate statistics of players in a West Coast offense and those that aren't. It also helps to describe why some players succeed and others don't in the system.

So based on that bullet about creating matchup problems for the defense, I would think that Campbell will be calling audibles.

[JetSkins]

oh boy that west coast offense

[SoCalSkins]

The Saunders system doesnt allow for audibles, so I have no idea where you're getting that.

Eventually one day I will be wrong. Today is not that day:

"Gibbs allowed quarterback Jason Campbell to decide at the line whether to run the draw or pass"

Link

[Thinking Skins]

Eventually one day I will be wrong. Today is not that day:

"Gibbs allowed quarterback Jason Campbell to decide at the line whether to run the draw or pass"

Link

Here's an article to defend Blade:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7607562

Collins is not the second coming of Rich Gannon, who left K.C., won a league MVP award and led the Raiders to a Super Bowl. But Collins is the quarterback who gives the Redskins the best shot at winning now. Jason Campbell was developing into a competent starter and he might one day become a poor man's Matt Hasselbeck. Right now, Campbell isn't comfortable with Saunders' expansive playbook, quick progression, no-audible offense.

[Thinking Skins]

Here's another statement of Al Saunders's offense:

http://hamptonroads.com/node/150111

Where it gets tricky is that there are virtually no audibles: The quarterback and receivers must read the defense quickly and make pre-assigned adjustments.

[No Excuses]

He looked good last year running the no huddle in late game situations until we got to the redzone :doh:

But I'm sure that has more to do with us having no legit redzone target besides Cooley. Now we got 3

[MartinC]

Here's another statement of Al Saunders's offense:

http://hamptonroads.com/node/150111

I think there is abit of a myth around what actually an audible is in the modern NFL.

Increasingly passing schemes in many NFL style offenses have no audible as such where the QB changes the play at the line. Instead they have increasingly complex sight adjustments where a receiver may run a completley different route to the one called in the huddle based on if he reads man or zone, if he reads blitz, if he has press or a cushion, if the play side backer is in a hook zone or on a dog etc etc etc. As such audibles in the passing game are almost obsolete.

So what is normally meant now by an audible in the ability to change a running play if the defense is sacked against what was called or to switch from run to pass or visa versa.

As such what happened under Al Saunders will not be much if any different than what happens under Jim Zorn IMO.