Dan T. Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 The redskins were worth 403 million in 1998 and are valued at over 1.1 billion today. Fact remains Snyder almost tripled the franchises worth since '98. You don't do that with crappy business skills. Is that any different from the other 31 NFL teams? Honest question... Most of the NFL's money comes from TV revenues, which all the teams share. Snyder's got an advantage over others in owning his stadium, which also has the largest capacity of any stadium... But my guess is if you look at the worth of any NFL franchise over the last 10 years you'll see similar growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isifhan Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Is that any different from the other 31 NFL teams? Honest question... Most of the NFL's money comes from TV revenues, which all the teams share. Snyder's got an advantage over others in owning his stadium, which also has the largest capacity of any stadium... But my guess is if you look at the worth of any NFL franchise over the last 10 years you'll see similar growth. It's about 200 million more than the Patriots are worth currently and the Patriots have three superbowls within the last decade to build on. The next closest is the Giants valued at 1.18 billion. If you are going to cite TV revenues than remember the owners do get some say in how that money gets disbursed so I'd imagine it takes some measure of skill to negotiate those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horatio Posted June 15, 2009 Author Share Posted June 15, 2009 He took a franchise that was not the most profitable in the NFL and made it into the most profitable in all of sports. Tell me how this is relevant to winning Super Bowls. The Skins are profitable because Snyder has consistently fleeced the fans for more money every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Tell me how this is relevant to winning Super Bowls. The Skins are profitable because Snyder has consistently fleeced the fans for more money every year. Personally, I think the blame lies with a fanbase that is willing to overpay for everything he's selling. Snyder has the right to charge whatever people are willing to pay...and until more people stand up and say 'enough', he will continue to do so. I've said 'enough'....2008 was the first year I did not go to a Skins game in almost 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isifhan Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Tell me how this is relevant to winning Super Bowls. The Skins are profitable because Snyder has consistently fleeced the fans for more money every year. I never claimed it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Walton Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Let's see how well he manages this franchise in a recession. In the immortal words of Don Vito - "things are going to get rough, and I need a wartime consiglieri. .." My guess is that Mr Snyder doesn't know value, has no idea how to market value, can not provide value if his life depended on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Let's see how well he manages this franchise in a recession. In the immortal words of Don Vito - "things are going to get rough, and I need a wartime consiglieri. .." My guess is that Mr Snyder doesn't know value, has no idea how to market value, can not provide value if his life depended on it. One advantage for him over other owners in a recession is that the DC area is relatively recession-proof. Or at least much less affected by a recession than other areas of the country. Still, he'll feel the pinch. Even without the recession, it's become clear that Redskins tickets are far from the hot commodity they used to be. Part of it is having the most seats in the NFL. Part of it is largely mediocre teams for 10+ years. Part of it is the fans' perception of Snyder and his handling of the team. He's an owner who made his fortune in marketing who is losing the PR battle for his own team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Even without the recession, it's become clear that Redskins tickets are far from the hot commodity they used to be. Part of it is having the most seats in the NFL. Part of it is largely mediocre teams for 10+ years. Part of it is the fans' perception of Snyder and his handling of the team. He's an owner who made his fortune in marketing who is losing the PR battle for his own team. Your conclusions are correct that Redskins tickets have lost their esteemed appeal. Though it would be hard to pin down how much of it has to do with each of the 3 reasons you list. Funny thing is, I bet given 3 years I could turn Redskins season tickets into a hot commodity again independent of how the team performs.* The Gameday experience at FedEx is just awful. It's an experience designed by accountants and salespeople. It's as if no thought whatsoever from the eyes of the fan went into it. Just my opinion, and yes, I know (*) is a pretty egotistical statement. That's the beauty of message boards though, you can't prove me wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 The Gameday experience at FedEx is just awful. It's an experience designed by accountants and salespeople. It's as if no thought whatsoever from the eyes of the fan went into it. Unfortunately the reasons that cause a good part of the horrible gameday experience are the exact same way that Snyder makes a good portion of his profits. Thus, he likely sees no reason to change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 The Gameday experience at FedEx is just awful. It's an experience designed by accountants and salespeople. It's as if no thought whatsoever from the eyes of the fan went into it. Zoony, I don't necessarily disagree with you. I'm curious as to how you (and others, if they want to chime in) would change the game-day experience. What things would you cut? What things would you add? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilsu Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Zoony, I don't necessarily disagree with you. I'm curious as to how you (and others, if they want to chime in) would change the game-day experience. What things would you cut? What things would you add? The biggest problem I have is something that Dan Snyder's not responsible for, and that's the location and transportation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins:Victory_or_Death Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Zoony, I don't necessarily disagree with you. I'm curious as to how you (and others, if they want to chime in) would change the game-day experience. What things would you cut? What things would you add?This is worthy of it's own thread. What would I change? Bring back the RFK rafters. Shook the stadium they did... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Your conclusions are correct that Redskins tickets have lost their esteemed appeal. Though it would be hard to pin down how much of it has to do with each of the 3 reasons you list. Funny thing is, I bet given 3 years I could turn Redskins season tickets into a hot commodity again independent of how the team performs.* The Gameday experience at FedEx is just awful. It's an experience designed by accountants and salespeople. It's as if no thought whatsoever from the eyes of the fan went into it. Just my opinion, and yes, I know (*) is a pretty egotistical statement. That's the beauty of message boards though, you can't prove me wrong Zoony, I think you could pull it off. But the number ONE answer to how to make FedEx THE place to be on Sundays again is - field a dominant team. There's a whole new generation of fan waiting for that experience, along with those old enough to remember how great it is to go to games when you always expect your team to win and are surprised when they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horatio Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 They could show the scores of other NFL games without charging $$$ to rent a Kangaroo just to see scores. They could get rid of the blaring commercials that play during timeouts and actually say something about the team. They could open up more escalators so it is actually easy to get to your seat, instead of cordoning them off for "corporate use." They could actually allow you to bring bottled water into the game instead of having to pay $8 for one. They could open more bathrooms. They could make tailgating a pleasureable experience again. See, there's lots of things they COULD do to make the experience for the average fan better...but they WON'T because Snyder is all about making money off the fans who he supposedly respects. In my opinion, Snyder is intentionally making things worse so he can create more ridiculous "platinum clubs" to speed up access to get into the stadium for a huge fee...oh wait he already did that.:doh: Yes, the Skins are the most profitable NFL team under Snyder...but the gameday experience ranked 28th out of 32 teams last year in SI (or ESPN, I'm not sure). The only stadiums to rank worse were hell holes like Oakland and Cincinnati. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Your conclusions are correct that Redskins tickets have lost their esteemed appeal. Though it would be hard to pin down how much of it has to do with each of the 3 reasons you list. Funny thing is, I bet given 3 years I could turn Redskins season tickets into a hot commodity again independent of how the team performs.* The Gameday experience at FedEx is just awful. It's an experience designed by accountants and salespeople. It's as if no thought whatsoever from the eyes of the fan went into it. Just my opinion, and yes, I know (*) is a pretty egotistical statement. That's the beauty of message boards though, you can't prove me wrong I never really understand "the Gameday experience" people refer to. I don't get it. I have been to the Ravens stadium and watched ray ray run in with his stupid dance and the purple chicken head shoot flames out of its mouth with glowing eyeballs. I have watched the skins play in Tenn at the Titans stadium. I have been to FedEx field many times. The only "Gameday experience" I could talk to is winning, tailgating, and pricing of concessions. Clearly FedEx has high prices. But tailgaiting hands down blows out Baltimore. I have been taken into some seedy allyways to park to see the Ravens. The titans fans were all kumbaya fun loving folks, but nothing at the stadium yanked at my heartstrings. What is the "Gameday experience" people are searching for? I can assure you at FedEx...for the Detroit Lions playoff game, the gameday was as good as any event I have ever attended. Winning sure answers this question doesn't it? Are the popeyes commercials that offensive? They got rid of the one unique thing we had at the stadium because everyone whined...the funky four. The only gameday thing I can think of (besides concession pricing) that is absolutely inexcusible is the failure to consistently show other games scores. Other than that, I am there to watch football not be pampered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Here is the pointThe Redskins mint money with the most loyal fan base in the world (and best fan base in the world) He owns the stadium. He just figured out ways to get us to pay more, along with the fact the NFL TV deal has increased and the NFL makes a ton of money from NFL Network You or I could have figured out more ways to charge fans more money in different ways (tailgate club, dream seats, 40 dollar parking etc) Color me unimpressed by making money off the Redskins I am talking about his other business ventures. His magazine in the early 90s failed and he was 3 million in debt He catches lightning in a bottle by basically setting up a company, which bought other companies, leveraged that value, and sold out at the peak of the tech boom. That is to his credit, for a) knowing what to do with buying multmillion dollar businesses and recognizing when to sell out and cash his chips in Since then Six Flags has failed. ESPN radio is meh. The thing with Tom Cruise-meh. Johnny Rockets? Its not really a good record for him. But to his credit, he hit it big time once and is able to utilize that wealth for other risks Snyder's greatest skill has always been his ability to bring richer, smarter people into his deals and ultimately cover his risks. How a 20-something college dropout ever got Mortimer Zuckerman to give him millions of dollars is one of the great mysteries of the universe. How he got $500 million in loans to buy the Redskins is pretty remarkable. How he got Bill Gates and others involved in his hedge fund and the Six Flags scheme is another example. At every step, he has managed to partner with richer men and has - more often than not - cost them millions. Yet, he keeps plugging along. It's a talent similar to Donald Trump's, where he gets his investor in so deep with him that they have to keep supporting him or lose hundred of millions. With Trump, though, you can sort of see how he pulls it off. I would just love to see Snyder in a board room one time to figure out what the magic is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAFGA Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Snyder's greatest skill has always been his ability to bring richer' date=' smarter people into his deals and ultimately cover his risks. How a 20-something college dropout ever got Mortimer Zuckerman to give him millions of dollars is one of the great mysteries of the universe. How he got $500 million in loans to buy the Redskins is pretty remarkable. How he got Bill Gates and others involved in his hedge fund and the Six Flags scheme is another example.At every step, he has managed to partner with richer men and has - more often than not - cost them millions. Yet, he keeps plugging along. It's a talent similar to Donald Trump's, where he gets his investor in so deep with him that they have to keep supporting him or lose hundred of millions. With Trump, though, you can sort of see how he pulls it off. I would just love to see Snyder in a board room one time to figure out what the magic is.[/quote'] It must be a trust thing. In interviews that I've seen of Snyder, he comes off as reserved and not very outspoken. I'm pretty surprised that he's able to persuade anyone to do anything. Of course, Bernie Madoff knew people who trusted him, too, and look where his persuading got people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexter's manley Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 They could show the scores of other NFL games without charging $$$ to rent a Kangaroo just to see scores.They could get rid of the blaring commercials that play during timeouts and actually say something about the team. They could open up more escalators so it is actually easy to get to your seat, instead of cordoning them off for "corporate use." They could actually allow you to bring bottled water into the game instead of having to pay $8 for one. They could open more bathrooms. They could make tailgating a pleasureable experience again. See, there's lots of things they COULD do to make the experience for the average fan better...but they WON'T because Snyder is all about making money off the fans who he supposedly respects. In my opinion, Snyder is intentionally making things worse so he can create more ridiculous "platinum clubs" to speed up access to get into the stadium for a huge fee...oh wait he already did that.:doh: Yes, the Skins are the most profitable NFL team under Snyder...but the gameday experience ranked 28th out of 32 teams last year in SI (or ESPN, I'm not sure). The only stadiums to rank worse were hell holes like Oakland and Cincinnati. One thing you didn't hit on: Try bringing a kid to one of these games. You're pretty likely to end up sitting near drunk, belligerent fans who shout expletives at every opportunity. This is true at a lot of stadiums, but in my experience it's worse than normal at FedEx. So, the Redskins COULD police the stands a bit more, or at the very least offer family-friendly seating areas similar to what the Patriots do. But they won't. The list of things this team COULD do to show even a modicum of respect for its fanbase is long. But don't hold your breath: This team has an owner whose sense of decency matches his diminutive stature - this is a guy who refuses to even SPEAK to the fans who pay the bills for ALL OF HIS FAILING COMPANIES. And when he does speak, he does so through interviews with corporate mouthpieces like George Michael and Doc Walker, men for whom he (HELLO?!) also signs paychecks. Don't expect anything to improve under his regime. Even if the team starts to win more consistently (actually, the "more" is unnecessary, since this team has NEVER won with any consistency under the Snyder regime), don't expect the experience of following it to get any better. Snyder wants your wallet far more than he wants wins - that's just what we're dealing with at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 SnydIt's a talent similar to Donald Trump's' date=' where he gets his investor in so deep with him that they have to keep supporting him or lose hundred of millions. [/quote'] There's a saying... "owe a bank $500,000- you're a debtor. owe a bank $500 million, you're a partner." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 One thing you didn't hit on: Try bringing a kid to one of these games. You're pretty likely to end up sitting near drunk' date=' belligerent fans who shout expletives at every opportunity. This is true at a lot of stadiums, but in my experience it's worse than normal at FedEx.So, the Redskins COULD police the stands a bit more, or at the very least offer family-friendly seating areas similar to what the Patriots do. But they won't. The list of things this team COULD do to show even a modicum of respect for its fanbase is long. But don't hold your breath: This team has an owner whose sense of decency matches his diminutive stature - this is a guy who refuses to even SPEAK to the fans who pay the bills for ALL OF HIS FAILING COMPANIES. And when he does speak, he does so through interviews with corporate mouthpieces like George Michael and Doc Walker, men for whom he (HELLO?!) also signs paychecks. Don't expect anything to improve under his regime. Even if the team starts to win more consistently (actually, the "more" is unnecessary, since this team has NEVER won with any consistency under the Snyder regime), don't expect the experience of following it to get any better. Snyder wants your wallet far more than he wants wins - that's just what we're dealing with at this point.[/quote'] im all about fedex being better for the fans, and i agree we should get replays and scores of other games, but your first request is just wishful thinking. going to a football and thinking youre not gonna hear people cursing, and seeing people hammered is just being naive. youll never get rid of that at any football stadium. ive been to 5 football stadiums, and ive seen that at every single one of them, its just impossible to avoid. i dont have kids so i cant comment on whether you should bring them or not, but if youre worried about your kids hearing/seeing stuff like that, keep them at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexter's manley Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 im all about fedex being better for the fans, and i agree we should get replays and scores of other games, but your first request is just wishful thinking. going to a football and thinking youre not gonna hear people cursing, and seeing people hammered is just being naive. youll never get rid of that at any football stadium. ive been to 5 football stadiums, and ive seen that at every single one of them, its just impossible to avoid. i dont have kids so i cant comment on whether you should bring them or not, but if youre worried about your kids hearing/seeing stuff like that, keep them at home. You're right that it's impossible to eliminate that element from NFL games no matter what the stadium, but the Redskins from what I have seen make little to no effort to even contain or control it. My point was there are things they could do to improve the experience for all fans - as I mentioned the Patriots have instituted family-friendly areas in their stadium to great success. As for not bringing kids, I know I emphasized kids in the post, but it's not just children who are offended by much of what goes on in and around FedEx Field during games. I would just like to see the team make SOME effort to police the fans behavior, that's all. But as long as Snyder can sell overpriced beer to underintelligent fans, I don't see things changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Sell overpriced beer to underintelligent fans. Sounds like a possible new marketing slogan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 You're right that it's impossible to eliminate that element from NFL games no matter what the stadium' date=' but the Redskins from what I have seen make little to no effort to even contain or control it. My point was there are things they could do to improve the experience for all fans - as I mentioned the Patriots have instituted family-friendly areas in their stadium to great success.As for not bringing kids, I know I emphasized kids in the post, but it's not just children who are offended by much of what goes on in and around FedEx Field during games. I would just like to see the team make SOME effort to police the fans behavior, that's all. But as long as Snyder can sell overpriced beer to underintelligent fans, I don't see things changing.[/quote'] i agree they make little to no effort to control it (although the physical stuff always get quelled pretty quickly) but you'd need like 10,000 extra security guys to wander around telling people to stop saying "insert curse word here". most recently ive been to tampas stadium and i try to go to philly every year, both stadiums have the same issues. philly is way worse than ours, if you think youve heard cursing at a skins game, mosey on up to the linc, those fans make the script from Goodfellas sound like sesame street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexter's manley Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 i agree they make little to no effort to control it (although the physical stuff always get quelled pretty quickly) but you'd need like 10,000 extra security guys to wander around telling people to stop saying "insert curse word here". most recently ive been to tampas stadium and i try to go to philly every year, both stadiums have the same issues. philly is way worse than ours, if you think youve heard cursing at a skins game, mosey on up to the linc, those fans make the script from Goodfellas sound like sesame street. Of course you can't police every person who curses - nor should you, as this is a team that DESERVES to be cursed at most of the time. I guess I mean cursing when it's coming from a person who is clearly hammered and is disturbing everyone around him/her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Of course you can't police every person who curses - nor should you' date=' as this is a team that DESERVES to be cursed at most of the time. I guess I mean cursing when it's coming from a person who is clearly hammered and is disturbing everyone around him/her.[/quote']agreed. i frankly hate most redskins fans at games. i find the majority of them are there just to drink until they vomit, not pay attention to the actual football being played, and take a bunch of stupid pictures for their facebook profile wearing their super hip "storm" chris cooley jersey. its a nice game when im sitting next to a few people who can name more than 5 guys on the roster, or who stay past the 3rd quarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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