City Paper: "Snyder: Hunter, Gatherer, Ruiner"

[ttr77]

agreed. i frankly hate most redskins fans at games. i find the majority of them are there just to drink until they vomit, not pay attention to the actual football being played, and take a bunch of stupid pictures for their facebook profile wearing their super hip "storm" chris cooley jersey.

The ones I find most bothersome are the ones that feel the need to play 'cheerleader' in the stands, by yelling and getting in the face of anyone not standing or screaming during what they deem as an appropiate time.

And these are usually the ones passed out by the 4th quarter. At that point, they are usually pretty quiet.

[Dan T.]

The ones I find most bothersome are the ones that feel the need to play 'cheerleader' in the stands, by yelling and getting in the face of anyone not standing or screaming during what they deem as an appropiate time.

And these are usually the ones passed out by the 4th quarter. At that point, they are usually pretty quiet.

:rotflmao:

[hail2skins]

I never really understand "the Gameday experience" people refer to. I don't get it.

The only "Gameday experience" I could talk to is winning, tailgating, and pricing of concessions.

What is the "Gameday experience" people are searching for?

I can assure you at FedEx...for the Detroit Lions playoff game, the gameday was as good as any event I have ever attended.

Winning sure answers this question doesn't it?

Are the popeyes commercials that offensive? They got rid of the one unique thing we had at the stadium because everyone whined...the funky four.

The only gameday thing I can think of (besides concession pricing) that is absolutely inexcusible is the failure to consistently show other games scores. Other than that, I am there to watch football not be pampered.

Chipwhich, I agree that there are a lot of things people complain about that Snyder can't control, especially considering he didn't build the place. He can't prevent people from selling their tickets via online brokers (although he shouldn't encourage it through his partnership with Stubhub), can't make people be in their seats by kickoff, and can't make people exhibit common courtesy in the stands. And I also agree that when the team is winning, the stadium experience does magically seem to be a lot better.

But I do think Snyder could go back and take a page out of how some things were back in the first few years of the stadium, including 1999. I don't know what the league average for parking is, but $35-40 seems a bit steep. Inside the stadium, get the band more into the game like they used to be. Perhaps play more appealing music before the game instead of the hip-hop (I actually think they started to take this into consideration this past season). Finally, if you're going to take away the NFL Experience to put in more corporate tents, why not give the fans something back in the form of....I don't know, a decent jumbotron? Yes, you might call it pampering, but it would be nice to see a highlight on a viewable screen. It boggles the mind that they were able to upgrade the scoreboards at Camden Yards, yet are not capable of doing the same at FedEx.

Finally, you mentioned the Funky Four. I think people only started to complain about them after SNYDER turned their show into a damn commercial and most of the time they had to leave the field before they got into the song's chorus. What's the point?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I never really understand "the Gameday experience" people refer to. I don't get it.

I have been to the Ravens stadium and watched ray ray run in with his stupid dance and the purple chicken head shoot flames out of its mouth with glowing eyeballs.

I have watched the skins play in Tenn at the Titans stadium.

I have been to FedEx field many times.

The only "Gameday experience" I could talk to is winning, tailgating, and pricing of concessions.

Clearly FedEx has high prices. But tailgaiting hands down blows out Baltimore. I have been taken into some seedy allyways to park to see the Ravens. The titans fans were all kumbaya fun loving folks, but nothing at the stadium yanked at my heartstrings.

What is the "Gameday experience" people are searching for?

I can assure you at FedEx...for the Detroit Lions playoff game, the gameday was as good as any event I have ever attended.

Winning sure answers this question doesn't it?

Are the popeyes commercials that offensive? They got rid of the one unique thing we had at the stadium because everyone whined...the funky four.

The only gameday thing I can think of (besides concession pricing) that is absolutely inexcusible is the failure to consistently show other games scores. Other than that, I am there to watch football not be pampered.

There is s difference between "being pampered" and "feeling like you were just on three week trip by sea to Ellis Island in 1903."

I've been to games in Baltimore, Philly, and Pittsburgh as well as in FedEx. Plenty of reasonable parking. A relatively easy walk into the stadium. A not-unplesant experience leaving the stadium by car. A feeling that you are not in violation of a fire code for overcrowding in the concourses. Decent food. Not feeling like you are at one of those time share deals where they give you a gym bag if you listen to their 2-hour pitch.

Going to an Eagles' game with my wife's family is actually a somewhat pleasant experience. Going to a Redskins' game feels like a death march at this point.

[ttr77]

Going to an Eagles' game with my wife's family is actually a somewhat pleasant experience. Going to a Redskins' game feels like a death march at this point.

I couldn't agree more. I've been to 4 other stadiums in recent years, and sorry to say...Fedex is by far the worst.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I couldn't agree more. I've been to 4 other stadiums in recent years, and sorry to say...Fedex is by far the worst.

I could be overstating things because I have not been to FedEx field since, I think, 2003. But we go to Philly once a year, and it's something we actually look forward to. (I was there for the Skins game this year...you know, back when there was hope).

[zoony]

Out of curiosity LKB, do you wear your colors in Philly?

[ttr77]

I could be overstating things because I have not been to FedEx field since' date=' I think, 2003. But we go to Philly once a year, and it's something we actually look forward to. (I was there for the Skins game this year...you know, back when there was hope).[/quote']

As far as I'm concerned, Fedex has gone downhill since 2003. Just the added 10k+ seats makes getting in and out of the stadium, and the bathrooms, quite the nuisance. I could be mistaken (since I canceled my season tickets) but I believe now that some of the entrances have been reserved for 'speed pass-like' premium seating access only.

[Rocky21]

But I do think Snyder could go back and take a page out of how some things were back in the first few years of the stadium, including 1999. I don't know what the league average for parking is, but $35-40 seems a bit steep. Inside the stadium, get the band more into the game like they used to be. Perhaps play more appealing music before the game instead of the hip-hop (I actually think they started to take this into consideration this past season). Finally, if you're going to take away the NFL Experience to put in more corporate tents, why not give the fans something back in the form of....I don't know, a decent jumbotron?

Finally, you mentioned the Funky Four. I think people only started to complain about them after SNYDER turned their show into a damn commercial and most of the time they had to leave the field before they got into the song's chorus. What's the point?

When I read your post about stadium parking, the NFL Experience, commercials, etc. it reminded me of the post I made in the 10 year anniversary of Snyder as owner thread.

When I look back on the first decade of Snyder's stewardship of my beloved Redskins, here is what I think of.

Selling the naming rights to the stadium for cash.

Airing commercials during TV time outs when that time could be used to pump up the fans, show great plays, honor former players, etc. Every inch of the stadium that could be used to honor / celebrate the Redskins has been used to place an advertisement.

The price of concessions.

The ticket prices among the most expensive in the league.

The mandatory purchases of preseason tix by season ticket holders. JKC allowed people on the season ticket waiting list to purchase pre-season tix.

Parking has been raised from $10 to $20 to $25 to $35 since he bought the team. (By the way, parking revenues are not shared and average parking in the NFL is $18.)

When Snyder learned some fans were parking for free at Landover Mall he prohibited foot traffic into the stadium via a public road. After 3 years, not allowing people to walk into the stadium was overturned by PG County.

Putting the most expensive seats, called dream seats, at the expense of and right in front of the most long tenured fans of the team.

The crowded, dangerous escalator to the upper level. When we got to the top one game a couple of seasons ago with both working on all 3 levels, we cheered. It was our Super Bowl.

The removal of the area for the kids called the NFL experience. Kids could kick a field goal, catch a pass from an older kid and run under a goal post, and run an obstacle course. No revenue was generated from this. The next year this area was paved over and corporate hospitality tents available for lease took its place.

The elimination of the standing room area at either end of the stadium at the first level end zone bars. For adult fans it was a great place to drink beer and socialize with fellow fans. To maximize revenue these sections were taken out and replaced with stadium seats.

At RFK like most NFL stadiums outside vendors were allowed to sell pretzels, peanuts, etc at reduced prices as a benefit to the fans. Since Snyder took over, they have been banned from the grounds of Fed Ex Field.

The net effect of the high ticket prices and concession prices is that a Redskins game is not much of a family affair any longer. It’s mostly a drunk guy and his buddy going to a game now. The way the Skins have played the last couple of years there is plenty of loud profanity and a fight or two during an NFC east game.

Allowing people to move up the season ticket waiting list ahead of others by buying into things like the Tailgate Club for $1500. It’s a dirty little secret that season ticket holders are offered extra season tickets in their section ahead of people on the waiting list.

Season tickets get sent out usually about two weeks before the first preseason game in August but payment is due in full in March.

Changing a long standing practice by charging $10 to allow the fans see the team practice in 2000. This also allowed representatives of opposing teams to scout the team. The team lost 2 out of the first three games that year and didn’t finish with a winning record.

The whole you must use a Redskins brand credit card to pay for your season tickets fiasco

Installing obstructed view seating in the stadium and selling the tickets at full price. After a public relations nightmare of biblical proportions, sold the tickets the next year at half price.

Letting Brad Johnson go via free agency and signing Jeff George. Adam Archuleta and Brandon Lloyd. Two words. Deon Sanders.

Buying radio stations that were the only stations able to broadcast games with signals so week you couldn't hear the FM stations 5 miles outside the city.

Other than this though it's been a pretty smooth ride. Here's to hoping the next decade will be kinder.

[zoony]

ouch. ^^^^

[BAFGA]

Selling the naming rights to the stadium for cash.

Lots of teams do that, though. It's not that big of a deal. It's the nature of the beast.

Airing commercials during TV time outs when that time could be used to pump up the fans, show great plays, honor former players, etc. Every inch of the stadium that could be used to honor / celebrate the Redskins has been used to place an advertisement.

agree with you. Totally unacceptable.

The price of concessions.

They're definitely high, but they're high throughout the league. People will probably say tailgating is your way to fight the beast on this one.

The ticket prices among the most expensive in the league.

Again, the Snyder sniffers will say that tickets are cheap and plentiful for many games the day of the game, but that's in the secondary market. Snyder has made his money in the primary market for those tickets.

The mandatory purchases of preseason tix by season ticket holders. JKC allowed people on the season ticket waiting list to purchase pre-season tix.

I think that's a league thing. I don't like it, either, but I'd argue to the league.

Parking has been raised from $10 to $20 to $25 to $35 since he bought the team. (By the way, parking revenues are not shared and average parking in the NFL is $18.)

Again, parking is unacceptable and I fight this by taking the Metro.

When Snyder learned some fans were parking for free at Landover Mall he prohibited foot traffic into the stadium via a public road. After 3 years, not allowing people to walk into the stadium was overturned by PG County.

Inexcusable. Totally agree.

Putting the most expensive seats, called dream seats, at the expense of and right in front of the most long tenured fans of the team.

And I'm sure those long tenured fans have been either priced out of their seats or booted for corporate folks.

The crowded, dangerous escalator to the upper level. When we got to the top one game a couple of seasons ago with both working on all 3 levels, we cheered. It was our Super Bowl.

We need a 2nd escalator, but I don't think Snyder is going to sink a lot of dough on the buildings and grounds from here on out.

The removal of the area for the kids called the NFL experience. Kids could kick a field goal, catch a pass from an older kid and run under a goal post, and run an obstacle course. No revenue was generated from this. The next year this area was paved over and corporate hospitality tents available for lease took its place.

Totally agree. I was there the 3rd year of the stadium and I liked that area.

The elimination of the standing room area at either end of the stadium at the first level end zone bars. For adult fans it was a great place to drink beer and socialize with fellow fans. To maximize revenue these sections were taken out and replaced with stadium seats.

Snyder might be a fan of the Redskins, but he's a bigger fan of the almighty dollar.

At RFK like most NFL stadiums outside vendors were allowed to sell pretzels, peanuts, etc at reduced prices as a benefit to the fans. Since Snyder took over, they have been banned from the grounds of Fed Ex Field.

What about bringing unopened bottles in or outside food? Baseball lets you do this. Why not the NFL?

The list goes on and on and I agree with most of it.

[A Walton]

This list deserves it's own thread. I mean most operators of a business would pay top dollar for this kind of honest feedback.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Out of curiosity LKB, do you wear your colors in Philly?

I don't wear "colors" anywear since I am not in a motorcycle gang. I wore a Redskins t-shirt to the game this year and didn't have any issues, but I was sitting in the lower level. I think people who wear opposing shirts in the upper levels of any stadium are just begging to be punched by a 350 pound drunken construction worker.

From what I can see, the Philly reputation is either completely overblown or was destroyed by the move from the Vet. Their games are fun and the fans are passionate to an alarming degree. But I was at the game where TO came back to Philly for the first time in a Cowboys uniform. And they booed him unmercifully every second of the game. But it seemed "fun" if that makes any sense. Even the chant of "OD...OD...OD....OD" seemed more goofy than malevolent.

In fact, the closest I ever came to seeing a true riot in Philly was the time I almost caused one...at the 2003 Army-Navy game...by, um, booing the president. A few Navy vets let me know in no uncertain terms that I was quite lucky that they didn't throw me from the upper deck onto I 95. And then my buddy - who is Indian, but who probably looked alarmingly Pakistani that day - told them he thought they fought for freedom of speech....which got a few army vets involved. Ah, memories.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

As far as I'm concerned, Fedex has gone downhill since 2003. Just the added 10k+ seats makes getting in and out of the stadium, and the bathrooms, quite the nuisance. I could be mistaken (since I canceled my season tickets) but I believe now that some of the entrances have been reserved for 'speed pass-like' premium seating access only.

A lot of this is the design of the stadium. A lot of it is Danny's "improvements" I was at a sold-out Pitt-WVU game at Heinz Field and was in a bar across the street when the national anthem started and was through the gate and in my seat in the upper level before the kickoff.

That was the game that I decided to eschew beer at the tailgate and embraced a different kind of intoxicant. I was always about two plays behind the action until after halftime. I would turn to my buddy (not an Indian this time) and say "Hey...first down!" And he would say, "Dude, it's third and three!"

Ah, memories.

[Dan T.]

Heniz Field is a gorgeous place to watch a football game. I saw a Michigan State-Pitt game there a couple years ago. Maybe the best setting in the country, right at the confluence of the three rivers. Cool view of the Pittsburgh skyline, good sightlines of the field from the spiral walkways and endzone plazas. Plentiful concessions, spacious concourse.

Great stadium.

[chipwhich]

There is s difference between "being pampered" and "feeling like you were just on three week trip by sea to Ellis Island in 1903."

I've been to games in Baltimore' date=' Philly, and Pittsburgh as well as in FedEx. Plenty of reasonable parking. A relatively easy walk into the stadium. A not-unplesant experience leaving the stadium by car. A feeling that you are not in violation of a fire code for overcrowding in the concourses. Decent food. Not feeling like you are at one of those time share deals where they give you a gym bag if you listen to their 2-hour pitch.

[/quote']

I can only speak to places I have been.

The "gist" of your complaint is ultimately a result of location. Blame the DC Mayor for that.

As far as food/concessions. I have eaten crappy overpriced concession food in baltimore stadium. Asthetically the stadium is more pleasing, but I am not going to the stadium for asthetics.

I watched the Redskins lose to the Ravens at Baltimore this year. Believe me I was much more miserable watching them lose there than at FedEx.

[chipwhich]

When I read your post about stadium parking, the NFL Experience, commercials, etc. it reminded me of the post I made in the 10 year anniversary of Snyder as owner thread.

Other than this though it's been a pretty smooth ride. Here's to hoping the next decade will be kinder.

Other than the standard Snyder bashing, some of your post makes good sense some of it is just snyder bashing. I mean Snyder didn't come up with the naming rights selling, he wasn't even close to being first. But I am sure he would appreciate you crediting him for it.

First, you can thank Dan for the escalator working at all. Mr. Cooke forgot to include one in the stadium.

Second, were you sitting in the lower level Ravens stadium around the 35 yardline you would have paid about $7 grand for the rights to buy tickets to two seats and now be paying more money for those seats than at fedex.

Thirdly, the whole league charges for preseason. Stop living in the past.

Some of your other points are valid.

In general, the biggest problem with anything Redskins starting with the end of the Gibbs I error...losing.

Remember it all started with JKC building a dump of a stadium called "The Jack" in "Raljon". He built it so quick some of the people doing construction thought it might fall down. Now when Gibbs left the franchise was left in a disaster. Remember that first year under Petitbon. Tickets at RFK were easy to come by then.

Remember bringing in the ex cowboy Norv Turner and then letting the loser hang out for 7 years?

Remember JKC being so dumb that he left in his estate NOT enough money for his son to inherit the franchise.

Don't forget too, his son, when running the franchise appeared to be a HUGE DISASTER. The team might have just had a bad roster with NO MONEY spent on players. He appeared to not care.

Heck when Dan took over...our roster was a joke. Oh yeah we had that year that everyone thought we were a contender. Remember some how Michael Westbrook and Albert Connell had 1000 yard seasons? Repeat those two receivers names and 1000 yard seasons over and over. Who knew that was a fluke. :evilg:

Look Brad Johnson had taken on the Norv Turner disease. Somehow his benching is historically looked back as a turning point in our team. Here is a tidbit for you. Brad Johnson wouldn't have helped our team.

A am no Snyder supporter, but some of the bashing is just petty.

You go to games in Raljon, I mean Landover, because The Jack built it there.

The stadium with all its flaws are so because the Jack built it there.

Even with 20K less seats, given the performances we have, yall would still be complaining.

Carry on with Snyder bashing.

[Dan T.]

. . .

A am no Snyder supporter, but some of the bashing is just petty.

You go to games in Raljon, I mean Landover, because The Jack built it there.

The stadium with all its flaws are so because the Jack built it there.

Even with 20K less seats, given the performances we have, yall would still be complaining.

Carry on with Snyder bashing.

In your defense of Snyder you engage in some gratuitous and unfounded Cooke bashing. Let's not forget that he tried to get the stadium built in DC and then in close-in Alexandria before settling for PG County out of desperation. And he built the stadium with his own money, which rarely happens anymore. He built it quick because he was dying, and I doubt your assertion that construction people thought it unsafe. Cooke saved you from his son with the way he structured his will. He didn't want him to inherit the team.

Cooke had his faults, sure. He was a pompous ass and a bully. But he oversaw the longest stretch of glory years in the franchise's history, an era that some of us still cling to as we suffer through year after year of futility with this franchise. He knew how to run a football team - hire the best people and stay the hell out of their way. Others could learn from that model.

[chipwhich]

In your defense of Snyder you engage in some gratuitous and unfounded Cooke bashing. Let's not forget that he tried to get the stadium built in DC and then in close-in Alexandria before settling for PG County out of desperation. And he built the stadium with his own money, which rarely happens anymore. He built it quick because he was dying, and I doubt your assertion that construction people thought it unsafe. Cooke saved you from his son with the way he structured his will. He didn't want him to inherit the team. Cooke had his faults, sure. He was a pompous ass and a bully. But he oversaw the longest stretch of glory years in the franchise's history, an era that some of us still cling to as we suffer through year after year of futility with this franchise. He knew how to run a football team - hire the best people and stay the hell out of their way. Others could learn from that model.

Apologize, it really wasn't meant to bash Cooke. I was just trying to emphasize the point.

There were a lot of problems with this franchise before Danny took the helm. There certainly was A LOT to complain about the stadium before the Danny took over. It was "joked" about the stadium being built so fast that it might not stay up by those involved in building the stadium. The stadium was not state of the art when snyder got it.

Some people act like Snyder built the place. He made a heck of a lot of improvements to a sub standard stadium. He charges a lot for concessions. He paid a record amount for the team. He also paid Joe Gibbs, Greg Williams, Al Saunders, Steve Spurrier more at their respective positions than anyone in the league. He pays free agents money like it's water. Now if you want to complain about his approach to building a team, heck sign me up. But to complain about FedEx field, a place in which most of it's flaws have to do with original construction, location, and losing the Cap Center parking lot....well that's just snyder hating.

[Dan T.]

Apologize, it really wasn't meant to bash Cooke. I was just trying to emphasize the point.

There were a lot of problems with this franchise before Danny took the helm. There certainly was A LOT to complain about the stadium before the Danny took over. It was "joked" about the stadium being built so fast that it might not stay up by those involved in building the stadium. The stadium was not state of the art when snyder got it.

Some people act like Snyder built the place. He made a heck of a lot of improvements to a sub standard stadium. ....

I agree that some of the criticism of Snyder regarding the stadium is definitely misplaced. He can only work with what he inherited when he bought it....

[hail2skins]

Heck when Dan took over...our roster was a joke. Oh yeah we had that year that everyone thought we were a contender. Remember some how Michael Westbrook and Albert Connell had 1000 yard seasons? Repeat those two receivers names and 1000 yard seasons over and over. Who knew that was a fluke. :evilg:

Look Brad Johnson had taken on the Norv Turner disease. Somehow his benching is historically looked back as a turning point in our team. Here is a tidbit for you. Brad Johnson wouldn't have helped our team.

Getting away from the stadium discussion for a minute.......honestly, with all due respect, the old "well, we don't suck any worse than we did when Snyder took over" is one of the lamest defenses of the guy.

The guy has been here for 10 years. He's had four head coaches that he's picked in that span.

I really hope he's learning something.

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

Heniz Field is a gorgeous place to watch a football game. I saw a Michigan State-Pitt game there a couple years ago. Maybe the best setting in the country, right at the confluence of the three rivers. Cool view of the Pittsburgh skyline, good sightlines of the field from the spiral walkways and endzone plazas. Plentiful concessions, spacious concourse.

Great stadium.

I was actually there when it was being built - a coworker who was a Steelers fan asked me to take pictures . Not much in the way of security (I guess they thought who in the hell would want to visit a stadium only 85% done), so I gave a construction worker $10 to give me a couple min. tour of the place. It was pretty nice inside and my coworker doubled my money for getting pictures.

[Dan T.]

I was actually there when it was being built - a coworker who was a Steelers fan asked me to take pictures . Not much in the way of security (I guess they thought who in the hell would want to visit a stadium only 85% done), so I gave a construction worker $10 to give me a couple min. tour of the place. It was pretty nice inside and my coworker doubled my money for getting pictures.

Very cool. You should post them if you still have them.

[chipwhich]

Getting away from the stadium discussion for a minute.......honestly, with all due respect, the old "well, we don't suck any worse than we did when Snyder took over" is one of the lamest defenses of the guy.

The guy has been here for 10 years. He's had four head coaches that he's picked in that span.

I really hope he's learning something.

Not defending his assemblance of the team or the coaching staff. Just make sure your blame is pointed at the right things.

Of course old honest Abe Pollin has been one of the worst owners in the history of sports franchises. If it weren't for the Michael Jordan fiasco, the Wizards wouldn't have had any playoff run.

You can hope that Steady Teddy has finally worked out a plan for the cup. I have followed the team since their inception. The caps had better teams in the 80's than we have now, but no cup. He has been equally a disaster as an owner but got blessed with getting Ovechkin, one of the best in the game. But thats a different discussion. He has over ten years experience.

Then you could look at what we have for baseball in Baltimore and Washington as a point of reference.

If I were in charge of the team, I certainly might do things differently. But he does what he does, and it's not any worse than any other franchise in the area.

At the end of the day, while everyone slams Snyder, they also are on this board year after year saying trade this for that, "get him Danny", sign every available player who gets cut. We celebrate everything that is wrong with the franchise then slam him when it all falls to pieces.

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

Very cool. You should post them if you still have them.

Here ya go:

And before you ask, yes, all the construction helmets had the logo on one side like the Steeler's helmets and all the workers wore one. It was really cool.

I don't have any pictures directly of the inside, the guy I donated some cash to asked me not to, and I only had a few minutes.